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Player Conditions Suggestion


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#1

Pixed
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Posted 10 July 2010 - 03:43 PM

Hello, it' been a while, hasn't it?  :3

Anyway, I have had quite a clever idea for the past day or two. Conditions that effect the Player's Health. I've had an idea on a few different types of conditions there could be.
What made me have this idea was blood particles/effects being in MineCraft. I first thought, "If MineCraft were to contain blood and possibly even gore, it would more likely become more inappropriate. (It wasn't inappropriate to start with) But if MineCraft was to have blood, then why not have the thought of conditions that would effect the player's health, movement, abilities, and etc."

If this is an accepted Suggestion, why not have the name of your player's condition displayed above the ten hearts in MineCraft Alpha. This way the player's will know what's going on with his/her player. EPIC BRAINSTORM! :cobblestone:

My List of Condition Types
    [*:2i9eglzk] Normal: You start with this as soon as you spawn
    [*:2i9eglzk] Bleeding: Obtained from taking more than 3 hits of damage from enemies in under 10-30 seconds...or something of that nature, maybe even a 3-5 stage effect on how bad you'd be bleeding
    [*:2i9eglzk] Burning/Burnt: Obtained from Lava or Fire (Yes, I do know it's already there.)
    [*:2i9eglzk] Poisoned: Obtained from Spiders
    [*:2i9eglzk] Paralyzed: Obtained from being "Scared/Panic/Nervous" for a very long time
    [*:2i9eglzk] Frozen: Obtained from standing too long in a Winter climate
    [*:2i9eglzk] Scared/Panic/Nervous: Obtained from either being attacked in the dark a lot or hearing enemy sounds
    [*:2i9eglzk] Unconcious/KO'd: Obtained from being hit on or in head by an object like an arrow, enemy, explosion and etc.
    [*:2i9eglzk] Confusion/Confused: Obtained the same way you obtain "Unconcious/KO'd", only to obtain this, the same cause that "Unconcious/KO'd" require would require the cause to be not as strong
    [*:2i9eglzk] Dizzy/Drunk: Obtained in a similar way "Confusion/Confused" is obtained only not as strong of a hit on the head as "Confusion/Confused" requires

My List of Condition Effects
    [*:2i9eglzk] Normal: You're okay
    [*:2i9eglzk] Bleeding: Slows down movement and possibly can't jump or attack
    [*:2i9eglzk] Burning/Burnt: You'll continue burning until you land in water or wait a certain period of time (I still know it's an existing effect)
    [*:2i9eglzk] Poisoned: Same as "Burning/Burnt" only water will not cure this, only waiting for a while or eating soup or
    bread will cure this
    [*:2i9eglzk] Paralyzed: Can't move, only thing that can stop this is waiting a while
    [*:2i9eglzk] Frozen: Can move in same areas, but can't walk. Waiting for a while or being near Lava or Fire will stop this
    [*:2i9eglzk] Scared/Panic/Nervous: Your player's movement reduces by half until spotted by an enemy, when an enemy spot you, (This would be funny as hell) your movement will increase 1.5 times the default speed
    [*:2i9eglzk] Unconcious/KO'd: You stay in this condition for 15 seconds - 3 minutes, you can't move, can't hear and if you're being attack, you'll feel it only your hurt sound will not sound and you have no control of your player until he/she wakes up
    [*:2i9eglzk] Confusion/Confused: When your player has this condition, part of the time, when you attack you'll attack yourself or other thing around you and miss the spot you're aiming at
    [*:2i9eglzk] Dizzy/Drunk: Hard to see what going on, similar to the special effect called "3d anaglyph" only the 3 depths will be moving between the 2 random directions "Clockwise" and "Counter Clockwise"

  Well, there they are. I sure do hope all of you enjoyed my "EPIC BRAINSTORM! :D". So far, this is all I could think of, so if you have any ideas on what other types of conditions that you think should be, feel free to post them, we all want to see it! :cobblestone:
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#2

Pixed
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Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:10 PM

Quick bump and post. Just recently, I seen in the "Suggestions" forum was a topic called "One thing minecraft must not EVER have". Now then, I did read what was posted within that topic, if this topic is implied as a part of what that topic was talking about, then will apologize for my minor mistake, but I will remain to keep this up.
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#3

renadi
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Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:33 PM

I don't think any state should be forced on you passively, the paralyzed one gives you no way to block it from what I understand? Confusion wouldn't really work, unconsciousness would be very iffy to me, depending on how you got there, but I'm thinking no, dizzy or drunk would just be annoying, but everything else seems like something I wouldn't just be OK with but would actually want. Maybe have an antidote for poison instead of just eating food though?

#4

Mystify
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Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:59 PM

Notch said he would have conditions(currently we have "ON FIRE"), however, there are certain qualities needed for them.

He doesn't want text on the interface. This isn't a bad idea, as it removes any language barrier. So a textual description of the status is not going to work. It also breaks immersion.

You need to be able to tell that you have the condition, and how to fix it. For instance, if you are on fire, its "OMG, FLAMES!". This is highly visible and immediately recognizable. It is also immediately apparent what to do about it "OMG, WHERE'S WATER!"

Conversly, something like being poisoned is hard to convey, You would need an icon on the screen, which would still be hard to interpret. It is also hard to understand what to do to stop being poisoned.

With those criteria in mind:

Normal: Its the default, so it works
Bleeding: Hard to represent and understand.
Burning/Burnt: Its fire, as I mentioned above  
Poisoned: Hard to represent, obscure to fix, as mentioned above
Paralyzed: Hard to understand why you suddenly stopped moving. It would probably feel more like a bug.
Frozen: appropriate screen and sound effects can convey that you are freezing, and seeking warmth is fairly obvious.
Scared/Panic/Nervous: Being scared is something the player should deal with. You want the player to be cautious and worried about zombies, not the character.
Unconcious/KO'd: I'd only see this being useful as a component of multiplayer, so friends can save you if you are fighting together.
Confusion/Confused: Hard to represent, hard to figure out how to fix  
Dizzy/Drunk: If a temporary condition caused by being hit very hard, or when hit by an explosion, it could work. The screen distorting like that is very clear. If it wore off after a couple seconds, then how to deal with it is readily apparent.

#5

Vrresto
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Posted 10 July 2010 - 06:34 PM

Bleeding: This is a bad idea in MP. Basically whoever strikes first wins, regardless of skill or even equipment.
Burning/Burnt: The burning should stay. No point in a burnt state, burning is bad enough punishment.
Poisoned: I think spiders are bad enough.
Paralyzed: Another pointless impediment to actually playing.
Frozen: This one might work. Should involve taking damage for being too far from a heat sro
Scared/Panic/Nervous: So you're being punished for just hearing monsters? Doesn't sound too fair.
Unconcious/KO'd: Why not just death?
Confusion/Confused: Again, these things are making it seem like getting hit once = eventual death
Dizzy/Drunk: Same problem

I just don't really see what these add to the game. They seem to only take away your ability to fight back effectively. Losing a heart should be punishment enough for getting hit. Maybe if there was a particular item or attack that was avoidable but caused one of these effects it might work.

#6

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 06:35 PM

renadi said:

I don't think any state should be forced on you passively, the paralyzed one gives you no way to block it from what I understand? Confusion wouldn't really work, unconsciousness would be very iffy to me, depending on how you got there, but I'm thinking no, dizzy or drunk would just be annoying, but everything else seems like something I wouldn't just be OK with but would actually want. Maybe have an antidote for poison instead of just eating food though?

  Now the Paralyze condition I figured would be set to having all the player's movements and actions to a complete stop, now for the Unconsciousness condition, I didn't fully think that one through, it's similar to Paralyze now that I think about implying that it'll become useless if Paralyze was to exist as one of the conditions. For the Dizzy/Drunk condition, I would say it would originally meant to be annoying, I mean it'd be too easy to just take a massive hit and not be able to be effected in a way that would effect your combat skill, besides, now that I think about it, I'd think the Dizzy/Drunk condition would be needed to be only able to be obtained on Normal-Hard, the dizziness effect be something to see other than have it you would like to see such an unusual thing anyway. :P Now if we go back into the past a bit, we can look at the RPGs that had a condition system programmed into them, not if I do remember fully, in an old RPG some foods and drinks would stop the poisoning immediately, but you did point out a good view I was yet to see. Thanks! :3

Mystify said:

Notch said he would have conditions(currently we have "ON FIRE"), however, there are certain qualities needed for them.

He doesn't want text on the interface. This isn't a bad idea, as it removes any language barrier. So a textual description of the status is not going to work. It also breaks immersion.

You need to be able to tell that you have the condition, and how to fix it. For instance, if you are on fire, its "OMG, FLAMES!". This is highly visible and immediately recognizable. It is also immediately apparent what to do about it "OMG, WHERE'S WATER!"

Conversly, something like being poisoned is hard to convey, You would need an icon on the screen, which would still be hard to interpret. It is also hard to understand what to do to stop being poisoned.

With those criteria in mind:

Normal: Its the default, so it works
Bleeding: Hard to represent and understand.
Burning/Burnt: Its fire, as I mentioned above  
Poisoned: Hard to represent, obscure to fix, as mentioned above
Paralyzed: Hard to understand why you suddenly stopped moving. It would probably feel more like a bug.
Frozen: appropriate screen and sound effects can convey that you are freezing, and seeking warmth is fairly obvious.
Scared/Panic/Nervous: Being scared is something the player should deal with. You want the player to be cautious and worried about zombies, not the character.
Unconcious/KO'd: I'd only see this being useful as a component of multiplayer, so friends can save you if you are fighting together.
Confusion/Confused: Hard to represent, hard to figure out how to fix  
Dizzy/Drunk: If a temporary condition caused by being hit very hard, or when hit by an explosion, it could work. The screen distorting like that is very clear. If it wore off after a couple seconds, then how to deal with it is readily apparent.

Okay, I forgot about the "Burning/Burnt" condition being already displayed in a non-HUD picture style. Perhaps the represention for the following would be helpful :3 :
Poisoned: Screen will get a green-ish transparent color to it, but the HUD will remain their default color
Scared/Panic/Nervous: Maybe a bit of shaking on the screen

  The "Unconcious/KO'd" condition in multiplayer I also think that it would be best recommended for. "Confusion/Confused", I was think it would  only be able to where off after a period of time. "Dizzy/Drunk", I was meaning for it to be temporary, it just wouldn't be very fair to try and win a game with having that all day. :3
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#7

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 06:43 PM

Most of the problems with them is that its not immediately apparent what to do about it. If I'm poisoned, what do I do? I might assume I need an antidote, but as for what form that takes, I would be clueless. Many of the other effects, as pointed out, would simply interfere with normal gameplay and through balance to the wind.

#8

Pixed
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Posted 10 July 2010 - 06:48 PM

Vrresto said:

Bleeding: This is a bad idea in MP. Basically whoever strikes first wins, regardless of skill or even equipment.
Burning/Burnt: The burning should stay. No point in a burnt state, burning is bad enough punishment.
Poisoned: I think spiders are bad enough.
Paralyzed: Another pointless impediment to actually playing.
Frozen: This one might work. Should involve taking damage for being too far from a heat sro
Scared/Panic/Nervous: So you're being punished for just hearing monsters? Doesn't sound too fair.
Unconcious/KO'd: Why not just death?
Confusion/Confused: Again, these things are making it seem like getting hit once = eventual death
Dizzy/Drunk: Same problem

I just don't really see what these add to the game. They seem to only take away your ability to fight back effectively. Losing a heart should be punishment enough for getting hit. Maybe if there was a particular item or attack that was avoidable but caused one of these effects it might work.

  With all of these being in MP would be truly terrible. I didn't mention anything about which ones should be in MP and which shouldn't. Perhaps some of these may seem stupid, but these conditions would make the game somewhat more fun. The Burning/Burnt wasn't meant to be looked at as if it was 2 separate conditions.
I figure the more that should go in MP would be the following:
Burning/Burnt
Poisoned
Frozen
Unconcious/KO'd
Dizzy/Drunk

  I did figure that these conditions where good ideas, but it seems I may have been wrong. But if these conditions where to appear in MineCraft, then that would be great. It now just doesn't look like it was a great idea after all. :\
MineCraft is fun and epic!   :U

#9

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 07:01 PM

Mystify said:

Most of the problems with them is that its not immediately apparent what to do about it. If I'm poisoned, what do I do? I might assume I need an antidote, but as for what form that takes, I would be clueless. Many of the other effects, as pointed out, would simply interfere with normal gameplay and through balance to the wind.

  If there was to be an antidote, then (of course) you'd need water. With crafting maybe you could make the antidote like you would make Soup, and why not use it and craft the antidote. It could be something like this:

Key:
:soil: : Bowl
:Glass: : Yellow Flower
:grass: : Water
:Glass: : Red Mushroom
:iapprove: : Portabella (Brown Mushroom)

Soup:
[]  :Glass:  []
[]  :(  []
[]  :soil:  []

Antidote:
[]  :soil:  []
[]  :grass:  []
[]  :--+:  []

Now this is only a guess.
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#10

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 07:11 PM

well, the problem with the frozen states is that you can't do anything about it, and I mainly had a problem with not being able to minimize the cause; if your character just suddenly becomes scared and frozen because there are enemies around. . . it just seems counter-productive to gameplay.
The others might still have a place, but there's no way I wanna just be mining and hear an enemy and then I get frozen until 2 creepers come at me and I'm screwed. I also think that if a feature can't fit into multiplayer it shouldn't make it into single player, and vice versa, generally I like the ideas, but those I mentioned seemed like more of a nuisance than anything.

In response to Mystify it's really not readily apparent what quite a few of the crafting recipes are, and I really think at some point text will have to be implemented, and tooltips saying Can be used for: ____ would really be helpful in general.

There should probably be simple counters to each of these states however, meaning if you're prepared, you have little to fear, if not, well you chose to venture out into a dangerous world.

I'd say poison could only put you down to 3 hearts, and you can't use items to heal to more than 6 maybe?

Dizziness could be cured by not moving the camera or moving around, meaning you could either risk the effects or wait so it can be cured.

The frozen, or frostburn should limit max health attack speed and move speed, but physical activity would cure it, moving jumping using a tool.

Bleeding could only damage you while you're moving, I'd say you should still be able to use tools so you still have a means of defense, but jumping and walking would make you take damage.

-Edit: typo

#11

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 07:23 PM

Pixed said:

Mystify said:

Most of the problems with them is that its not immediately apparent what to do about it. If I'm poisoned, what do I do? I might assume I need an antidote, but as for what form that takes, I would be clueless. Many of the other effects, as pointed out, would simply interfere with normal gameplay and through balance to the wind.

  If there was to be an antidote, then (of course) you'd need water. With crafting maybe you could make the antidote like you would make Soup, and why not use it and craft the antidote. It could be something like this:

Key:
:Logs^: : Bowl
:YFlower: : Yellow Flower
:Water: : Water
:|: : Red Mushroom
:D : Portabella (Brown Mushroom)

Soup:
[]  :RedShroom:  []
[]  :|:  []
[]  :Logs^:  []

Antidote:
[]  :YFlower:  []
[]  :Water:  []
[]  :Logs^:  []

Now this is only a guess.
If you are poisoned, are you going to guess that that is what you need to do? If you are on fire, you know exactly what to do. Notch himself said that this was a problem, and was why he wouldn't implement poisons

renadi said:

In response to Mystify it's really not readily apparent what quite a few of the crafting recipes are, and I really think at some point text will have to be implemented, and tooltips saying Can be used for: ____ would really be helpful in general.
.
Which recipes are not readily apparent? If told "you can make this", I can come up with the recipes with no problem, and if I craft something unexpected, it is not hard to figure out how to use it. The degree of experimentation involved is a good thing. I really like minecrafts text-minimal approach, and I don't think it should be casually broken.

#12

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 08:15 PM

Most things are yes, but not 100%
the ease comes from the fact that once you do know what it is you can associate it fairly easily with a logical explanation, but not always at first, the logs turning into planks, planks to sticks, half steps, stairs, tnt, if one didn't already know how the systems in the game worked you wouldn't be able to just guess at these very easily, I admit, after knowing a few of them it's easier to figure out others, but from a complete outsider's view it isn't.  Now, other things could be implemented in a way that those who know how the game works could be programmed in without confusing any except the newest players, but trust me, I have tried introducing a lot of people to this game that found it uninteresting because the crafting isn't intuitive enough, I love it, but until you get used to it it is quite different.

#13

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 08:42 PM

I mostly just second Mystify's opinions as my response.
As for poisons, though, I like the idea of having the hearts change color for things like this. if you're poisoned a little bit, one heart on the right turns green and is unhealable. if it just stayed like this, not getting any worse, not getting any better (except maybe over a long time) then trying to figure out how to cure it wouldn't be such an annoyance, just something to do eventually.

If poisoning happened several times, then you'd start to worry... only having two hearts with which to survive everything is tricky, no matter how many pigs you kill.

#14

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 09:18 PM

Swingerzetta said:

I mostly just second Mystify's opinions as my response.
As for poisons, though, I like the idea of having the hearts change color for things like this. if you're poisoned a little bit, one heart on the right turns green and is unhealable. if it just stayed like this, not getting any worse, not getting any better (except maybe over a long time) then trying to figure out how to cure it wouldn't be such an annoyance, just something to do eventually.

If poisoning happened several times, then you'd start to worry... only having two hearts with which to survive everything is tricky, no matter how many pigs you kill.

  Actually, this idea sounds a lot better than mine. ;) Usually waiting time to pass and you're poisoned in that time, usually the wait is worth it. Take food poisoning for example, after you eat the food that's not properly cooked, you'll eventually feel better after exhaling the food (I know, gross to think about, but does point out what I mean).
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#15

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 09:22 PM

Swingerzetta said:

I mostly just second Mystify's opinions as my response.
As for poisons, though, I like the idea of having the hearts change color for things like this. if you're poisoned a little bit, one heart on the right turns green and is unhealable. if it just stayed like this, not getting any worse, not getting any better (except maybe over a long time) then trying to figure out how to cure it wouldn't be such an annoyance, just something to do eventually.

If poisoning happened several times, then you'd start to worry... only having two hearts with which to survive everything is tricky, no matter how many pigs you kill.


I like this idea a lot...
;)
:3

#16

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 09:31 PM

That would probably be the best implementation of poison suggested so far.

#17

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 09:40 PM

Mystify said:

That would probably be the best implementation of poison suggested so far.
QFT

#18

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 12:40 PM

GarretFuller said:

QFT
  Uhh...what? Sorry, I don't speak the Texting language. I almost can't understand any of it. :3
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