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[FireroseNekowolf]

630tiger, on 04 December 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

Two things.
1. There's a lot of creationists who aren't Christian. It just looks like there are because the non-Christian publishing companies won't publish anything hinting at creationism, because they think it's a religious thing.

Wha... buh... whaaaat?

Do you have any idea what you just said? Creationists are specifically Christian!* Because they believe in the Abrahamic (e.g. Christian) creation story of the Abrahamic God (e.g. again, Christian) creating the Earth!

That would be like, like... Like saying that there are a lot of non-Christians who believe in God and Jesus is the savior! That makes no god damn sense! Or like being born, raised, and speaks natively German doesn't make you German!

*Or I suppose Jewish or Muslim, as they all honor the same God and his creation of the Earth. But since most people in the US are Christian, I'm using Christian as a pseudo-umbrella term.

630tiger, on 04 December 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

2. A lot of scientists have converted themselves to creationism. Why? Because irreducibly complex reproducing superfactories don't "just happen".

Then they must not really be scientists, or be really stupid on biological history. Because no scientists worth his salt says it "just happens." If anything, this is actually quite ironic, because that is essentially what the Creationists philosophy is. It "just happened" because God. God made it so. Whereas the scientists would go into amino acids and chemical reactions and bacterial life and so on and so on into something you could turn into a novel bigger than Atlas Shrugged.

[Helios_Noname]

Define "Wasted."

If it gives them peace of mind, does not make them form a anti-gay murder cult, and makes them more generous, kind, and forgiving people, then I'd say "wasted" is a relative term.

Quote

Then they must not really be scientists, or be really stupid on biological history. Because no scientists worth his salt says it "just happens." If anything, this is actually quite ironic, because that is essentially what the Creationists philosophy is. It "just happened" because God. God made it so. Whereas the scientists would go into amino acids and chemical reactions and bacterial life and so on and so on into something you could turn into a novel bigger than Atlas Shrugged.

I don't quite see where you're coming from with this argument. Creation by an omnipotent being does not require an explanation of the building itself, as the creatures made were described as being fully functional upon creation. Therefore, going by that philosophy, there was no progression from simple to higher forms of life to study, hence the explanation that "God made life" suffices. The idea of life being created whole and functional, though silly to some, does not make the believers of that philosophy any less able to study the life around them and attempt to discover how it functions.

[Eryan]

danthonywalker, on 04 December 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

So wait the Bible is not meant to be taken literally? So all this crap Jesus and God did to make the Bible possible we are not meant to take seriously? Then why the hell should we care for any of this crap in the first place if religion is not meant to be taken seriously...excuses to cover up the evils of your religion. Maybe Christians aren't evil, but they represent evil.

I'd suggest you here.  http://bit.ly/TFUOyo

FireroseNekowolf, on 04 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Wha... buh... whaaaat?

Do you have any idea what you just said? Creationists are specifically Christian!* Because they believe in the Abrahamic (e.g. Christian) creation story of the Abrahamic God (e.g. again, Christian) creating the Earth!

That would be like, like... Like saying that there are a lot of non-Christians who believe in God and Jesus is the savior! That makes no god damn sense! Or like being born, raised, and speaks natively German doesn't make you German!

*Or I suppose Jewish or Muslim, as they all honor the same God and his creation of the Earth. But since most people in the US are Christian, I'm using Christian as a pseudo-umbrella term.

There's plenty of people (that you may or may not define as insane) that believe that aliens were behind creation.  They can have no believe in God or Yeshua or in traditional religious beliefs.



Also, time wasted that was enjoyed wasn't wasted time.

[FireroseNekowolf]

Eryan, on 04 December 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

There's plenty of people (that you may or may not define as insane) that believe that aliens were behind creation.  They can have no believe in God or Yeshua or in traditional religious beliefs.

That's not Creationism, though. Creationism specifically relates to the creation of the Earth through a deity, usually the Abrahamic God (in the West).

What that is is something else.

[Eryan]

FireroseNekowolf, on 04 December 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

That's not Creationism, though. Creationism specifically relates to the creation of the Earth through a deity, usually the Abrahamic God (in the West).

What that is is something else.

define: creationism
The belief that the universe and living organisms originate from divine creation.

Anything can be considered, 'divine' so long as it's considered a 'god'.
Which is completely subjective.

[CosmicSpore]

Eryan, on 04 December 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

There's plenty of people (that you may or may not define as insane) that believe that aliens were behind creation.  They can have no believe in God or Yeshua or in traditional religious beliefs.

Eryan, on 04 December 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

define: creationism
The belief that the universe and living organisms originate from divine creation.

Anything can be considered, 'divine' so long as it's considered a 'god'.
Which is completely subjective.

Ah, I do believe he made a fair point on this one..... While I don't know of any non-Abrahamic Creationists personally, the possibility does exist. The concept is not necessarily of Abrahamic beliefs.

Of course, I personally also doubt the existence of non-Abrahamic Creationists who might have been exposed to any scientific knowledge on the subject. So if they even exist... we're speaking of very rare and very ignorant people here.

[FireroseNekowolf]

Eryan, on 04 December 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

define: creationism
The belief that the universe and living organisms originate from divine creation.

Anything can be considered, 'divine' so long as it's considered a 'god'.
Which is completely subjective.

Now you're just arguing semantics.

Quote

Creationism is the religious belief^[1] that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe are the creation of a supernatural being, most often referring to the Abrahamic God.

[Eryan]

FireroseNekowolf, on 04 December 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Now you're just arguing semantics.

I'm pointing out that creationism does not specifically refer to Judeo-Christian beliefs, that religion is only used as an example because it's something most people are going to be familiar with, due to its demographics.

Sumerians, babylonians, alien believers, zoroastrianism, nordic gods, etc.

[FireroseNekowolf]

By using aliens?

Look, when someone says they believe in creationism, in the current argument of it, especially here in the Western world, it's almost always Christian. Just because there might be other possibilities does not change what is the majority.

[CosmicSpore]

FireroseNekowolf, on 04 December 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

By using aliens?

Look, when someone says they believe in creationism, in the current argument of it, especially here in the Western world, it's almost always Christian. Just because there might be other possibilities does not change what is the majority.

But the majority also does not alter the definition.... Of all people you should know this especially well.
I think he's correct, Nekowolf... And you're arguing semantics just as much as he is, if not more.

Of course... I personally can't think of any modern interpretations of 'Creationism' outside of Abrahamic religions, except if someone truly believed humanity was created by aliens...
... But I guess alien Creationism makes just as much sense as Biblical Creationism, if not much more.

[Eryan]

FireroseNekowolf, on 04 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Wha... buh... whaaaat?

Do you have any idea what you just said? Creationists are specifically Christian!* Because they believe in the Abrahamic (e.g. Christian) creation story of the Abrahamic God (e.g. again, Christian) creating the Earth!

*Or I suppose Jewish or Muslim, as they all honor the same God and his creation of the Earth. But since most people in the US are Christian, I'm using Christian as a pseudo-umbrella term.

The entire reason I responded was because you were saying his argument was invalid and that all creationists are 'christian' or stemming from some related religion.

Not all creationists are christian.

[FireroseNekowolf]

For ­ sakes, fine, I misspoke, are you happy now? Christ.

[Branson4504]

so if a scientist is creationist, he is stupid?

Then by that logic albert einstein was one of the dumbest humans to walk earth.

[toast_burner]

Branson4504, on 05 December 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

so if a scientist is creationist, he is stupid?

Then by that logic albert einstein was one of the dumbest humans to walk earth.

What makes you think Einstein believed in creationism?
Also I hate the word scientist, it's to vague. Being a scientist doesn't mean you're smart.

[Habanero]

Branson4504, on 05 December 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

so if a scientist is creationist, he is stupid?

Then by that logic albert einstein was one of the dumbest humans to walk earth.

Albert Einstein was not a creationist, and I honestly have no idea why you think he was. Secondly, being a creationist doesn't necessarily mean you're stupid, and you also don't have to be smart to be a scientist.

[Mistika2489]

You do not need to attend church to be Christian