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Israel Discussion Thread


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#61

odiedodi
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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:04 AM

View Postdanthonywalker, on 19 November 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

I know you don't represent all your country, but what do Israelis think about America in general and America's involvement in the middle east? Sorry if this question doesn't fit the thread so well, but I am always fascinated about foreign prospective.

You do know We're Israel's ally, right? You do realized they're a modernized, developed first world country, right?
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#62

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:06 AM

View Postodiedodi, on 19 November 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

You do know We're Israel's ally, right? You do realized they're a modernized, developed first world country, right?

That does not mean the people there like the USA.

#63

danthonywalker

Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:12 AM

View PostXaanos, on 19 November 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

That does not mean the people there like the USA.

Beat me to it.

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#64

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 12:14 AM

I find that by reading and watching a combination of BBC, CNN, FOX, KOMO4, KING5, NWCN, Q13, Seattle Times, Seattle PI Online, and various documentaries as well as taking various classes on the subject at a progressive high school and community college gives me a mostly unbiased overall news source, filtered through my American, Libertarian, Pacifist, and Agnostic/Catholic/Henotheistic viewpoint. If I wanted to read Arabian propaganda, I would read Al Jazeera. If I wanted to read Israeli propaganda, I would read anything written in Israel. I have a bias, as well as everyone and I will be honest with it: I think that the entire world should be accepting of peace, prosperity, agnosticism, Christianity, diversity, and scientific progress. Because the world is doing the opposite, I believe we are all heading down the edge of an apex in civilization.



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#65

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:19 AM

View PostAzemOcram, on 19 November 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

I find that by reading and watching a combination of BBC, CNN, FOX, KOMO4, KING5, NWCN, Q13, Seattle Times, Seattle PI Online, and various documentaries as well as taking various classes on the subject at a progressive high school and community college gives me a mostly unbiased overall news source, filtered through my American, Libertarian, Pacifist, and Agnostic/Catholic/Henotheistic viewpoint. If I wanted to read Arabian propaganda, I would read Al Jazeera. If I wanted to read Israeli propaganda, I would read anything written in Israel. I have a bias, as well as everyone and I will be honest with it: I think that the entire world should be accepting of peace, prosperity, agnosticism, Christianity, diversity, and scientific progress. Because the world is doing the opposite, I believe we are all heading down the edge of an apex in civilization.



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We haven't reached the apex yet. In fact, we're actually going uphill. We're making strides for peace and tolerance, but we aren't at the top of the hill quite yet.

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#66

danthonywalker

Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:29 AM

View PostTheEvanCat, on 19 November 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

We haven't reached the apex yet. In fact, we're actually going uphill. We're making strides for peace and tolerance, but we aren't at the top of the hill quite yet.

You mean to tell me the world is at peace better now then before? This... disturbs me.

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#67

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:41 AM

View Postdanthonywalker, on 19 November 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

You mean to tell me the world is at peace better now then before? This... disturbs me.

Technically, not as many people are getting killed in war as in the past. We just have highly publicized wars now so you think everyone is dying 24/7.

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#68

dissembly

Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:27 AM

View PostSuperDark33, on 18 November 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

The IDF tries to avoid civilian harm and mostly succeeds.

This isn't factually true. They deploy weapons which, by their very nature, cause collateral damage. Senior figures in Likud have stated on multiple occasions that they intend to induce "terror", to make life unbearable - not just for terrorists, but for the entire population of Gaza.

View PostTheEvanCat, on 19 November 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

Technically, not as many people are getting killed in war as in the past. We just have highly publicized wars now so you think everyone is dying 24/7.

Ah yes, the Steven Pinker approach to politics.

I think these facts are largely irrelevant. A downward trend in proportions of casualties is a good thing, of course (assuming that it is true, and considering some of the sources that have produced these statistics, I question this... i am an evolutionary biologist, and as a result I have no respect for Steven Pinker as a scientist), but it is not necessarily a sign of things to come, and it is no reason to think that all is right with the world.

Rather than sitting back and thinking "At least slightly fewer people are being murdered than during the Middle Ages", I think it is more important to campaign against the atrocities that are going on, that continue to be serious problems, and that continue to be systematically generated in the modern world.

#69

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:47 AM

With friends ("allies") like these, who needs enemies? Remember, the Shaw of Iran was an ally to the USA and UK.


--Ocram

#70

SuperDark33

Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:35 AM

View Postdissembly, on 19 November 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

This isn't factually true. They deploy weapons which, by their very nature, cause collateral damage. Senior figures in Likud have stated on multiple occasions that they intend to induce "terror", to make life unbearable - not just for terrorists, but for the entire population of Gaza.

Every weapon causes collateral damage.

What i say is that the IDF (Members of the likud party have no control over the army, Ehud barack may have some control, but only political control.) doesnt aim at civilians unlike the hamas that encoureges it.


Did anybody hear the news about Hamas spreading the picture of a wounded baby from israel as a palastinian baby?
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#71

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:45 AM

View PostAzemOcram, on 19 November 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

With friends ("allies") like these, who needs enemies? Remember, the Shaw of Iran was an ally to the USA and UK.


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Are you really comparing what happened with Iran to Israel? you're serious? I think you need to go back to your progressive high school and try again. :|
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#72

danthonywalker

Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:15 AM

View Postodiedodi, on 19 November 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Are you really comparing what happened with Iran to Israel? you're serious? I think you need to go back to your progressive high school and try again. :|

Is all you can do is insult people's intellectual education levels whenever they disagree on one of your positions? Can you at least just back up your unneeded harsh insults with why you disagree on what people say? Because Iran was our ally. But they seem to not take to kindly to us.

http://en.wikipedia....tates_relations

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#73

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:34 AM

View Postdanthonywalker, on 19 November 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Is all you can do is insult people's intellectual education levels whenever they disagree on one of your positions? Can you at least just back up your unneeded harsh insults with why you disagree on what people say? Because Iran was our ally. But they seem to not take to kindly to us.


Iran was our ally because the CIA overthrew the government and planted the shah in office. Any comparison between that and Israel is ridiculous. I don't know how else I can back that up considering he didn't use anything to back up his assertion that such a comparison can indeed be drawn.
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#74

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:26 PM

View Postodiedodi, on 18 November 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

99% of the people I see that hate Israel are thinly disguised jew haters.
You must hang around many anti-Semites, then. I haven't personally met anyone who hates Jews, although I've met plenty who oppose Israel's actions.
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#75

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:32 PM

Here's my peace proposal for the region:

A sovereign Palestinian State is to be created in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Israel will remove any settlers remaining in the aforementioned areas.
Israel will demolish separation walls, roadblocks and military outposts.

Palestinian authorities will agree to cease supporting any terrorist activity and supress terrorist activity by non-official entities by means of their police forces.
Palestine authorities will accept the State of Israel.

An overland bridge is to be constructed between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The Bridge itself will be Palestinian territory. The ground below will remain Israeli territory.

Israel will be granted a number of extraterritorial military bases along the Jordan River and the Dead Sea.

The old town of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount will be a demilitarized binational entity governed by both Israel and Palestine.
Palestine will sign an agreement of neutrality.

#76

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:49 PM

View PostMamrok, on 19 November 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Here's my peace proposal for the region:

A sovereign Palestinian State is to be created in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Israel will remove any settlers remaining in the aforementioned areas.
Israel will demolish separation walls, roadblocks and military outposts.

Palestinian authorities will agree to cease supporting any terrorist activity and supress terrorist activity by non-official entities by means of their police forces.
Palestine authorities will accept the State of Israel.

An overland bridge is to be constructed between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The Bridge itself will be Palestinian territory. The ground below will remain Israeli territory.

Israel will be granted a number of extraterritorial military bases along the Jordan River and the Dead Sea.

The old town of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount will be a demilitarized binational entity governed by both Israel and Palestine.
Palestine will sign an agreement of neutrality.
Now come here and try to convince the maniacs in power to accept such a plan.
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#77

danthonywalker

Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

View PostTravis, on 19 November 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Now come here and try to convince the maniacs in power to accept such a plan.

May you respond to my questions I asked on post #60 (last post on page 3). I am very curious on what an answer would be.

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#78

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

View Postdanthonywalker, on 19 November 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

What are the biggest misconceptions about Israel? As an American I don't really trust news anymore and anytime they show something about middle eastern countries on the news I tend to always think of it as propaganda to hate any of them (not just Israel, but all middle eastern countries).

(Since this thread seems more like a IAmA I am going to ask the next question.)

I know you don't represent all your country, but what do Israelis think about America in general and America's involvement in the middle east? Sorry if this question doesn't fit the thread so well, but I am always fascinated about foreign prospective.
Tend to like the funding for stuff like Iron Dome, not much else I can think of that is universally agreed upon.
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#79

danthonywalker

Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:24 PM

View PostTravis, on 19 November 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Tend to like the funding for stuff like Iron Dome, not much else I can think of that is universally agreed upon.

TIL The U.S.A. funded an air-defense mechanism for Israel and that is the only thing we are supported by there universally. :|

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#80

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:26 PM

View Postdanthonywalker, on 19 November 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

TIL The U.S.A. funded an air-defense mechanism for Israel and that is the only thing we are supported by there universally. :|
The rest is controversial. Some people support the coupons for US equipment, others say we should use our own. Some people support the US intervening in the ME, some people don't. Mixed bag.
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