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[___MeRliN___]

That looks somewhat interesting

[Kholdstare]

warfighter67, on 16 November 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

Predict this:

Just an exceptionally good formation in a bad-looking biome. Imagine that with trees, better grass (or in a desert or covered in snow) and you've got an example of what could be found in 1.7.3.

In general, everything "crazy" you find is just because EH spawns crazy things.

Eryan, on 16 November 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

To all the people whining about terrain generation being "too predictable" here's an idea:
Code a mod that makes it "unpredictable", yet still doesn't make the terrain look like sh!t.

Some people didn't like the fact that minecraft had only tnt and no other explosives.
They made a mod.  (Explosives+/ICBM)

Some people didn't like the fact that there were very few ores in minecraft.
They made a mod.  (Metallurgy)

Some people didn't like the fact that trees and crops were pretty boring in minecraft.
They made a mod.  (ForgottenNature)

Some people didn't like the very few mobs in minecraft.
They made a mod.  (Mo'Creatures)

and on, and on, and on...

You have resources available to you.  Use them and be productive.
Instead of just saying that terrain is boring.

(and I really hope you attempt this, that way you can get an idea of just how difficult/impossible it is to code something that creates truly random, navigable terrain which is still classifiable as a 'biome')

Believe me, I would if I knew how to code Java. I don't find it to be worth my time since I already use mods that alter a lot of core aspects including the terrain. (And any mod I make sure as hell won't be compatible with Terrafirmacraft.)

It's not like they don't exist, though. Exalm made NBXlite for reverting the terrain and also made a terrain fix that produces more ideal worlds.

LiwenDiamond, on 16 November 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

All I can tell you is : Welcome to proceduraly generated worlds. I think it's random enough still to get some crazy terrain from time to time and people in this thread have provided evidence of that. Crazy terrain is not the important thing, the important thing is variation. I know that crazy exists in the current generator, but it's always in an F***ing EH or IM. Show me a mountain--a real one--outside of EH (edge) or IM. I'll tell you what: you can't. Minecraft remains a world where everything, absolutely everything, can be rearranged to your liking, so if you want a unique looking location, make one. That's what your playing this game for anyways. Oh, okay, so you want me to terraform the entire fricking world whenever I decide to explore? I can try to hide the current generator's faults by making my surroundings look better (or by using mods, which I do) but that doesn't mean that the other parts of the world won't suck. I also can't do anything about grass colors without using mods or altering the game files.

And to sum up the 1.7.3 generator, I don't even need a paragraph, I don't even need a whole sentence. I can sum it up in 3 keys words and a afterthought.

Slightly More Random, with moar trees on mountains.
You didn't say any of the possibilities, any of the mechanics, etc. I can do the same thing with the new generator.
"Repetitive, predictable, and ugly as s***".
Besides, it's not just the mountains and height variation. There are other problems with the new generator, like the ugly seafloor, ugly beaches, bad grass coloring, three-block transitions, nonexistent gravel beaches, and a couple of other things I might have missed.

Comments in bold.

BodOwens, on 16 November 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Did you already try Better world generation? It has the ability to return to Alpha and Beta terrain, while also making the current one better! And the mod also fixed the extreme hills being too blue.

But your right, ocean floors are ugly.

I saw a video of it. I wasn't all that impressed. I haven't seen EH in the video it but i'm going to guess that if it wasn't removed it's probably not worth looking at.
(Said video also did not give accurate alpha/beta worldtypes from BWG.)

[Boundegar]

Kholdstare, on 16 November 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Believe me, I would if I knew how to code Java. I don't find it to be worth my time since I already use mods that alter a lot of core aspects including the terrain. (And any mod I make sure as hell won't be compatible with Terrafirmacraft.)

Solving a problem always takes more time than complaining.  Complaining feels good.  It lets people know you are alive.

[Darkfyre99]

I usually sum up the terrain debate like this:

1.7.3 - monotonous with moments of win

current - varied with fewer moments of win

Seriously, while I loved the moments of win the pre 1.8 terrain generator created, it was pretty monotonous IMO.  You couldn't tell what biome you were in by looking, unless you were in tundra or a desert.  The caves were pretty small, and often shallow.  And oceans were non existent.

After 1.8, we've got honest to goodness biomes, where you can tell what the terrain is supposed to be.  If I want to build a castle, I don't have to level a bunch of small hills and chop down a bunch of trees in the "plains" biome.  The plains truly look like plains.  Caves are truly epic ones that you can get lost in and take days to explore, and while the oceans are at the moment barren of life, at least they feel like oceans.  I can wait for an underwater adventures update.

[Terratethspy]

Here's the problem, you are calling this find "cool" or "amazing." I'm not saying that it's not cool, I'm saying it shouldn't. Pre-1.8 this kind of stuff was normal, now, this is a rare find and is dubbed an amazing generation. Yes, I agree that there are some really cool finds in current generation, but pre-1.8 there really were some awesome generations. Just go and look up some seeds from 1.7, your sure to find some seed filled with giant overhangs, cliffs, and mountains, covering the entire map, not just one place. That's my problem with post-1.8 generation. However, I will admit that generation seems to have gotten better.

[BodOwens]

Kholdstare, on 16 November 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

I saw a video of it. I wasn't all that impressed. I haven't seen EH in the video it but i'm going to guess that if it wasn't removed it's probably not worth looking at.
(Said video also did not give accurate alpha/beta worldtypes from BWG.)

According to BWG's OP the old terrain seeds work well, even the iconic "glacier" seed. BWG seems to solve most of the terrain problems, even bringing the old gravel beaches back! Also the the EH biomes I have currently seen is filled with over-hangs and semi-floating islands. Trust me, it solves a LOT of things.

[ko0o]

i have to disagree the minecraft mountains are just horrible... the best generations was the ones in alpha but we cant have any of those without mods anymore.

[BodOwens]

ko0o, on 16 November 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

i have to disagree the minecraft mountains are just horrible... the best generations was the ones in alpha but we cant have any of those without mods anymore.

Exactly, MODS!

[Event_Horizon]

Kholdstare, on 16 November 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Just an exceptionally good formation in a bad-looking biome. Imagine that with trees, better grass (or in a desert or covered in snow) and you've got an example of what could be found in 1.7.3.

In general, everything "crazy" you find is just because EH spawns crazy things.

Doesn't have trees or green grass
>>>bad landscape

Crazy terrain now has a name with it
>>>bad generation

That's basically what I got from your arguments about terrain.

TBH I like how some places are actually flat now and trees on the side of a huge hill just look weird.

and the grass color? I honestly don't mind.

[MICHAEL_BAY]

And in 1.7 there were 3 biomes: Snow, Sand and Not Snow Or Sand. I don't care if there aren't mountains everywhere because the biomes itself are varied. Everything becoming mountains doesn't make better generation. Different biome-spesific features and structures do.

[Tremuto]

I always like to think that the landscape isn't boring if you make it look nice.

You can take a boring biome and change it into something pretty cool. I kinda think that's the point in the game.

I mean, I took this "boring" Extreme Hills section I spawned in and changed it into something I'm pretty proud of

Spoiler:

[Dan10105]

BodOwens, on 16 November 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Seed and Coords?

Here's the seed, in number form: 5955978654378927961. Have fun typing that in correctly .

Unfortunately I don't have the coordinates, I just found that place while exploring.

And I tried to find it again but it wasn't where I thought it was, sorry .

Well, here's another place, had to wait for the clouds to clear to take the screenshot,

Spoiler:

Same seed, with coordinates of

x=-1667
y=110
z=1200

Unfortunately, when I created a new world in creative mode that had that exact seed, it gave me a completely different world. I even typed in /seed, and it spit out the right number, but it was definitely not the same world. So I guess I have to give you the original seed word that I used for it to generate correctly, but I can't remember it, so I guess the ravine is lost forever. Darn.

[Pinkamena_314]

Am I really the only one who actually likes the dimmer grass? It's a much better compliment to the blue fog than the old lime green stuff.

[BAW194]

I agree, look what I found while exploring in my current world:

Spoiler:

[erntcariu_ua12_me]

BAW194, on 16 November 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

I agree, look what I found while exploring in my current world:

Spoiler:

That is sick!

[Kholdstare]

Boundegar, on 16 November 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

Solving a problem always takes more time than complaining.  Complaining feels good.  It lets people know you are alive. I don't think that solving a problem should take over a year. Especially since most of the official comments on the matter weren't relating what we wanted (with terrain sliders we get to chose which flavor of monotony we want! Yay!) and had no further mention besides Dinnerbone claiming that sliders would be a stepping stone (though at this point I doubt it because it doesn't seem like there will be a 1.6 since once 1.5 and it's API comes, Jeb can just say "there's a mod for that").

Darkfyre99, on 16 November 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

I usually sum up the terrain debate like this:

1.7.3 - monotonous with moments of win More like varied with moments of win.

current - varied with fewer moments of win More like monotonous with fewer moments of win.

Seriously, while I loved the moments of win the pre 1.8 terrain generator created, it was pretty monotonous IMO.  You couldn't tell what biome you were in by looking, unless you were in tundra or a desert. While it was hard to tell at times, you could get the gist of it The caves were pretty small, and often shallow.  And oceans were non existent. Then again, nowadays seas are nonexistant. While I do like the deepness and size of 1.8+ oceans there isn't much variety in oceans. With 1.7.3 you usually got seas and lakes, but now you get oceans. (The size is also a bad thing for oceans since oceans are by and far the most predictable biome but I don't mind it much since I rarely go in them for exploration unless i'm looking for land.)

After 1.8, we've got honest to goodness biomes, where you can tell what the terrain is supposed to be. Unfortunately that means the terrain is always the same.  If I want to build a castle, I don't have to level a bunch of small hills and chop down a bunch of trees in the "plains" biome. While pre-1.7.3 did have hilly and mountainous plains (odd, isn't it?) there was still a lot more flatland than people seem to think there was. The plains truly look like plains. Unfortunately they always look like that. Caves are truly epic ones that you can get lost in and take days to explore although they're always like that so the epicness eventually runs dry, and while the oceans are at the moment barren of life, at least they feel like oceans. This I can agree on; i'd like to see oceans in a new generator but keep seas like there were before. I can wait for an underwater adventures update. Nor can I but i'd rather see a new generator come along that adds the good of both generators (the variety of pre-1.8 and the rivers and structures of post-1.8).

BodOwens, on 16 November 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Exactly, MODS! The ones that break compatability with other, more fun mods and cause bugs! YAY!

warfighter67, on 16 November 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

Doesn't have trees or green grass
>>>bad landscape Not always bad IMO, that's just what EH (and therefore mountains) always is. I like the colors of the 1.7.3 savannas, and they're more brown than anything. Similar to what you get if you stick grass in a desert. Feels like autumn with sparse trees.

Crazy terrain now has a name with it
>>>bad generation That's because it's forced by the biome. Have you ever seen the crazy mountains of EH and IM in a forest, desert, swamp, plain, jungle, or isolated in the middle of the ocean? Have you ever seen a single, solitary, lonely mountain or a small group of mountains? You haven't, because the only mountains that exist are restricted to EH and IM.

That's basically what I got from your arguments about terrain.

Nothing about how predictable it is? At all? That's pretty much my main argument. You're not reading.

TBH I like how some places are actually flat now and trees on the side of a huge hill just look weird.

1) Flat lands did exist back in 1.7.3. A lot. Have you ever played with the 1.7.3 generator? Flatlands were just as common as mountains, thanks to Perlin noise.

2) That's an opinion. In some cases it did feel weird but it's not a major problem or anything. I'd trade hill-trees for a varied, beautiful generator, thank you very much.

and the grass color? I honestly don't mind.

Congrats. Most people do mind.

MICHAEL_BAY, on 16 November 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

And in 1.7 there were 3 biomes: Snow, Sand and Not Snow Or Sand.

Haha, stop being sarcastic. There were biomes, and they were noticable; just not as blatantly, head-smackingly obvious as they are now.

I don't care if there aren't mountains everywhere because the biomes itself are varied.

Hahaha, no. Comparing different biomes to eachother (e.g. one swamp to one jungle), yes. Comparing two of the same biomes (one swamp to another swamp) and it'll look like the same swamp unless you can see the entire swamp in one picture. Everything becoming mountains doesn't make better generation.

*sigh* Everything wasn't mountains back then. Flatlands did exist and were plentiful. Solitary mountains, plateaus, valleys, mountain chains, floating islands, and anything you could imagine that existed within the boundaries of Minecraft was possible and it broke the boundaries when it came to mods.

Different biome-spesific features and structures do.

You're saying that you would rather see a piddly little pyramid that always looks the same than a massive world with it's own unique structures with wide sweeping flatlands, towering mountains, and every single terrain feature you could think of? Because that's what you just said.

Comments in bold.

Sefirah, on 16 November 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Am I really the only one who actually likes the dimmer grass? It's a much better compliment to the blue fog than the old lime green stuff.

I personally was never a fan of the alpha neon-green grass. I don't mind dimmer grass, just not the barfy grass of 1.8+. The only biomes that I don't mind are forests (nice color and nice trees) and deserts (temples and villages all on a nice sediment). In terms of color I extend that to jungles, though I dislike jungles since the wood isn't pretty and there is simply too much flora. Plains are meh (not eye pleasing but not ugly either), while oceans, taiga, ice plains, and EH have blue grass which I find to be pretty ugly. Swamps have ugly grass with the overlay (without it they look much much much better) and mushroom islands are too rare for me to care.

[Nameloc86]

Well......I like the current landscape!

[LiwenDiamond]

Going to have to raise an applause at Kholdstare for sticking to his guts all the way until now in this thread.

Now regarding his reply to my comment :

Yes 1.7.3 had more variation in terrain. I cannot deny you that fact. You can still find some exceptionnal terrain in 1.4.2, thus 1.4.2 is slightly less random. It is boring? Not to me. But I guess it is for you and many more if the popularity of the movement for reverting to 1.7.3 terrain is to be taken in account.

I can still find some really good beaches around. I would have shown you a picture of one in particular, sadly that world was corrupted some time ago, but it's there. I swear on it.

Regarding grass. I find Vanilla Minecraft to be ugly in general and I've installed a texture pack to resolve that issue so long ago I barely remember how it looks. Haven't had complaints about the look of the game's blocks and textures since. Yes texture pack are technically a mod, but it's a really mod that doesn't alter gameplay in the least. It's the closest to vanilla Minecraft you'll ever get.

And yes, while it is time consuming, I fully expect one who wants to built an epic looking something on top of epic looking terrain to consider the idea of terraforming the place beforehand. Of course you can't modify the entire world, you would need more time and men for that that is available to anyone on the planet, but at least the area around you base, which is where you'll be spending 95% of your time, yeah you can modify that however you please and it will be awesome.

But if you are really hell bent on constantly exploring new locations in the hopes of finding something unique, then I have no solutions for you except mods or convincing Mojang to revise the terrain generator. I personally don't need it to be any more than what it is right now, because I'm a sedentary player who focuses on mining the underground of my bases and building awesome on the surface and I usually can't be arse to explore more than 5 minutes before setting up shop somewhere around the spawn, but I understand my playstyle is not the only way this game should be enjoyed and if your experience of the game is undermined by the lack of variation then all my wishes go with you that you get what you want. After all, even if the terrain was more varied, I wouldn't care, I'm just going to rebuilt it the way I want.

[will1982]

Boundegar, on 14 November 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Check this out:

Spoiler:

I know this isn't exactly new, it's been a week or so.  But for all the folks complaining about the landscape, "hills" regions are now extreme!  I spawned in a Tundra biome, but I thought I was in Extreme Hills!

Can't wait to put a castle up there.

When were they not extreme? There was no "hills" biome before.

[mate428]

awensome!