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[Sting_Auer]

I've recently become interested in the idea of creating a new nation, if not necessarily the idea of actually doing it.

I created this thread to discuss how one could be created, and in what way.


Current Topic (11/11/2012). Page 1 - 2:

How would land be created for the nation? All the land is either claimed, or in the case of Antarctica, treaties have been made to ban territory claims.

For the purpose of keeping this discussion on track, we are going to pretend that I am the creator of this new nation. I will create a poll from my favorite ideas presented by the posters, and the winner will be listed in the OP.

My idea on the current topic:

• A location on the ocean floor with a natural resource is located.
  
• Radio operated submarines are sent to the ocean floor. Water jets are used to clear soil and sediment away and expose stone.
  
• Small explosive charges are used to embed grips into the ocean floor. A jackhammer is used to break the stone apart, and water jets are used to remove the broken rock.
  
• A U-bend is dug into the ocean floor, with one end deeper than the other and disconnected from the ocean. A large living area is dug out several meters below the surface.
  
• A second set of submarines capable of moving in a dry area  install an airlock in the U-bend, then deliver compressed air to force the water out, and spray the walls with a quick-drying sealant to stop the air from escaping through the rock and to stop water from seeping in.
  
• Turbines powered by water currents are installed outside of the entrance. Wires leading inside are used to provide power.
  
• Colonists arrive with dropped containers full of food, drinkable water, lighting, seeds, and any other supplies needed. Original submarines are used to retrieve drop tanks.
  
• Expand as needed.

Other ideas by posters:

Moon base, asteroid base, mars base, etc.

Start a colony in an unused area of Canada or another sparsely populated area and declare independence.

City that floats on the ocean.

Artificial islands

Conquer existing islands that are ruled by a corrupt government.


Discuss!

[MrDenco]

I an offshore or flipped colony(Where you take uninhabitable land and live there).  I find submarine living spaces unappealing, though 360 degree ocean view is a plus.

I saw something on SCI Channel where a city is just a giant pyramid of residential and work places and farming where there are like some form of light transport between different sections and everything is the tangent root of the derivative mean of distance so everything is dandy.

I like this thread topic, I find it delightfully interesting and exciting.

[Sting_Auer]

Technically, you wouldn't be living in a submarine. It would be like living in an underground city with artificial lighting, except it's underneath the ocean instead of underneath land.]

Viewing platforms would be great though so long as there was sufficient light to actually see stuff, which probably wouldn't be that hard once the colony was up and running.

[MrDenco]

Sting_Auer, on 12 November 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

Technically, you wouldn't be living in a submarine. It would be like living in an underground city with artificial lighting, except it's underneath the ocean instead of underneath land.]

Viewing platforms would be great though so long as there was sufficient light to actually see stuff, which probably wouldn't be that hard once the colony was up and running.

Hhhmmmm I still think that from a practicable stand-point starting above ground or water is ideal..
I think we should have other weigh in.  I mean I could be dead wrong!! I mean your idea is great really it is, I just am indifferent on the subject truly, but lean toward you know sur-terrain/marine.

Though I realize how epic this would be...ahh memories.
https://www.youtube....h?v=b2xDMFaokUY

(Without the shooting and stuff)

[MiracleMouse]

MrDenco, on 12 November 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

Though I realize how epic this would be...ahh memories.
https://www.youtube....h?v=b2xDMFaokUY

(Without the shooting and stuff)

Or the whole underwater utopia that was the backdrop for Bioshock would be awesome as well.  (without the mutants and crazy stuff of course)

[Shpaget]

I didn't quite understand where do submarines, digging and lifting the ocean floor fit in.
Ocean floor is not really a carpet you can cut a piece out of and lift it. It is loosely packed dust with some rocks that would just fall apart if you try to lift it.
That is unless you try to cut out deep enough to go through entire crust, which is 5-10 km thick on the ocean floor.

Why not start with floating colonies or occupying a newly formed island? They do form by volcanic action every now and then.

[Harvey_J]

A sub-oceanic country would be interesting, although costly. Artificial islands and a submarine city would be terribly expensive, so financing that kind of operation would be difficult.The only people who would invest in such a thing are rich libertarians, so our socio-economic choices would be severely limited. A volcanic island would be the lower-cost choice, but may get us in trouble with nearby countries, as most new islands seem to be around Tonga.

[Machiavel]

1. Collect 1 dollar from every user on Minecraftforums
2. Buy this island chain for 79,500
3. Move to said island chain
4. Use leftover money to establish nation
5. Kill each other over the disagreement about how said nation should be run
6. Communists win because the forums are filled with them
7. U.S. subtly overthrows the communist government and installs me as a puppet dictator
8. Everyone is happy forever

The end :)

[jacobdb]

as far as i know, starting a city off-shore is not allowed as deep oceans are international waters, and thus belong to no nation. (also known as Terra nullius)

[NeO_Startrek_Craft]

I think i'd like to go with a nation set around 40 latitude, and about 20 degrees wider from that point, stretching around to Earth, this nation would be a loosely help republic, but I would always think of going to the stars... we had to make a presentation about this in english class... and when I say go to the stars I mean the astroid belt, mars, etc... I would have to say I wouldn't mind taking New Zealand/ Australia, because of its vast space... and then leaving the rest of the world on its own... even though this republic of mine would be loosely held, it would have a large standing army to fight off anyone who threatens our sovereignty...

[JDawgMillenium]

It begins with multiple smart and wealthy people worldwide (me as the leader) in a clandestine alliance annexing small islands that are controlled by despots. Machines are built to purify salt water, farms are made, and an underground "trade" begins. Eventually, a secret military is formed with a decent navy and a large, well-trained army. Before your country, Op, is known to the world's media, I discover it.

I fire torpedoes at all of your submarines, digging machines, and underwater city from a safe position only slightly below sea level. Your entire population dies. Even if some of your people survive in rogue escape vessels, regrowth is impossible. I take all of your remaining resources for my sub-country's own personal benefit and continue to extract every penny from other weak nations until I can develop a quick interplanetary travel system with maximum security and unparalleled technology. I finally create a permanent colony on Luna and name it "Valhalla".

It begins inside a glass dome with constant supply ships and farms populated by government men. After a surplus has been attained, more domed colonies are added on to, and a strict civilian populace resides.

[Cswartz9]

Assuming funding doesn't matter here, as the OP proposed digging submarines and the person above me wants a moon colony, I think I'd go for a floating city. Take a bunch of buoyant materials out off the coast and build everything we need just floating on top of the water. It would be costly, but certainly not as much so as underground civilizations or moon colonies. Food would come from fishing, and housing would be a collection of houseboats we purchase, either one family or three single people to a boat. Power would come from a combination of generators, solar panels and wind turbines, operating off of the strong sea winds. We'd set up some machines to purify the salt water and everything would be dandy.

[Inteli7]

Build an enormous ship, or floating platform.

[Sting_Auer]

Shpaget, on 12 November 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

I didn't quite understand where do submarines, digging and lifting the ocean floor fit in.
Ocean floor is not really a carpet you can cut a piece out of and lift it. It is loosely packed dust with some rocks that would just fall apart if you try to lift it.

• A location on the ocean floor with a natural resource is located.
  
• Radio operated submarines are sent to the ocean floor. Water jets are used to clear soil and sediment away and expose stone.
  
• Small explosive charges are used to embed grips into the ocean floor. A jackhammer is used to break the stone apart, and water jets are used to remove the broken rock.
  
• A U-bend is dug into the ocean floor, with one end deeper than the other and disconnected from the ocean. A large living area is dug out several meters below the surface.
  
• A second set of submarines capable of moving in a dry area  install an airlock in the U-bend, then deliver compressed air to force the water out, and spray the walls with a quick-drying sealant to stop the air from escaping through the rock and to stop water from seeping in.
  
• Turbines powered by water currents are installed outside of the entrance. Wires leading inside are used to provide power.
  
• Colonists arrive with dropped containers full of food, drinkable water, lighting, seeds, and any other supplies needed. Original submarines are used to retrieve drop tanks.
  
• Expand as needed.

Remember everyone: We're not discussing funding or any other topics yet! We're only discussing how the new nation's structure would actually be created.

[soccercraft]

a "floating" island far out at sea would be risky, how would it manage the large waves that can form and the storng currents?

[NumberNoid]

If the underground dome had assurance that a explosion wont crack it and it had good internet and cheap tech (and food/water obviously) and politics that I agree with, I'd happily move in.

Anyway, good places are the middle of the pacific ocean since there isn't a chance of a volcano or earthquake.

Also, if this was actually a thing, I wouldnt mind to help out as long as I had a house and some money from it.

[Sting_Auer]

NumberNoid, on 12 November 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

If the underground dome had assurance that a explosion wont crack it and it had good internet and cheap tech (and food/water obviously) and politics that I agree with, I'd happily move in.

Anyway, good places are the middle of the pacific ocean since there isn't a chance of a volcano or earthquake.

Also, if this was actually a thing, I wouldnt mind to help out as long as I had a house and some money from it.

It's not actually a dome, it's underground. It just so happens to be underground under the ocean.


On another note:

Please try to keep the discussion serious. These ideas of space colonies are humorous, but this discussion is supposed to be serious/feasible. Space colonies are well outside of the realm of possibility without an enormous amount of funding.

[JDawgMillenium]

Sting_Auer, on 12 November 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Please try to keep the discussion serious. These ideas of space colonies are humorous, but this discussion is supposed to be serious/feasible. Space colonies are well outside of the realm of possibility without an enormous amount of funding.

You seem to be forgetting that the setting of our nation's beginning is variable. Valhalla's creation is in the foreseeable future when the world's understanding of energy sources and rocket science increases greatly, e.g. the latter half of the 21st century. Besides, cities covering the bottom of the ocean don't seem to be far off from my country's time.

[battlefrog71]

What if the southern states secede, like we are trying to right now?

[Toastedspikes]

Anyone heard of the Principality of Sealand?