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[Avskygod0]

Well the most effective solution is to establish concentration camps where they will be forced into hard labor. That should teach them a lesson.

[captaincupcake89]

" it seems like incidents like this are on the rise." Because there are a billion more people in the world so yes this is going to happen more often.

[ConservativeParty]

This picture says so much.

[AramilTheElf]

ConservativeParty, on 25 November 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

This picture says so much.

It's interesting, because pro - spankers can take it literally, while anti - spankers can infer sarcasm from the profanity and insults

[CommandantOreo]

Somehow, we got the delusion that we are above animals and that physical discipline on children is barbaric, yet we give in to other "animalistic" desires such as mating. I think the % of delinquents will rise in the future because of the simple lack of respect or regard for authority and elders. Corporal Punishment is simply a tool to try and combat it.(which usually works)

Not that I hope I'm right though. Maybe the next generation of kids will be the best we've seen in years.(I wish)

[Xalusta]

HempKnight, on 16 November 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

You aren't proposing a theoretical study be done, never mind the fact that you are in no position have a study done. Saying "I propose a study be done in the same way that countless studies have been." could not be more vague. Not to mention you didn't even answer my question on what then would they decide the outcome of the study on. Criminal record, therapists assessments, what?

You made the claim that it was/is in no way beneficial therefore you would be the one who needed to prove that. I did respond, try reading my replies more thoroughly.

Referencing specific studies that have been presented is vague?

The evidence has been presented and yet you keep asking for it, clearly due to the fact that you simply can't respond to it. Similarly, you're using your misunderstanding of how the burden of proof works ((I've already explained how it works and why, but you're saying that it works differently and you've failed to explain how or why that is - there's a reason for that, you know) to say that not only do you not need to support your comments, but you don't even need to present a counter argument to the evidence presented.

[HempKnight]

Xalusta, on 25 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Referencing specific studies that have been presented is vague?

The evidence has been presented and yet you keep asking for it, clearly due to the fact that you simply can't respond to it. Similarly, you're using your misunderstanding of how the burden of proof works ((I've already explained how it works and why, but you're saying that it works differently and you've failed to explain how or why that is - there's a reason for that, you know) to say that not only do you not need to support your comments, but you don't even need to present a counter argument to the evidence presented.

You appear to be very dense. If YOU say there is no benefit from something then YOU need to provide evidence, this isn't guilty until proven innocent. You didn't reference studies, you said, and I'll quote it again, "I propose a study be done in the same way that countless studies have been done" What studies? Whose studies? Where would these be? How many was it again? What did they base their claims on? Criminal record, therapist assessments, what?

If you say spanking is not beneficial then you need to prove that, or leave it as a matter of opinion. If I say there is a juggling vampire walrus under the surface of Mars do you have to disprove it or do I have to prove it? I would have made the claim therefore I would need to prove it.

[lolpierandom]

HempKnight, on 25 November 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

You appear to be very dense. If YOU say there is no benefit from something then YOU need to provide evidence, this isn't guilty until proven innocent. You didn't reference studies, you said, and I'll quote it again, "I propose a study be done in the same way that countless studies have been done" What studies? Whose studies? Where would these be? How many was it again? What did they base their claims on? Criminal record, therapist assessments, what?

If you say spanking is not beneficial then you need to prove that, or leave it as a matter of opinion. If I say there is a juggling vampire walrus under the surface of Mars do you have to disprove it or do I have to prove it? I would have made the claim therefore I would need to prove it.

But you are the claimant- you need to prove the benefits.

A person that doesn't feel it provides benefits does not neccesarily believe it's negative either- they just don't feel there is enough evidence to show that it has a positive effect.

[KadwynMC]

Litagano_Motscoud, on 14 November 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Never become president.

I.T. Crowd <3

[Anrx]

CommandantOreo, on 25 November 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Somehow, we got the delusion that we are above animals and that physical discipline on children is barbaric, yet we give in to other "animalistic" desires such as mating. I think the % of delinquents will rise in the future because of the simple lack of respect or regard for authority and elders. Corporal Punishment is simply a tool to try and combat it.(which usually works)

Not that I hope I'm right though. Maybe the next generation of kids will be the best we've seen in years.(I wish)

Above animals? That could be a whole another debate. But for now, let us agree that we are above animals in terms of intellect. The same intellect that, among many other things, allows us to see how mating is harmless (assuming it's safe and consensual, of course) while physical punishment is not.

Physical punishment is only effective immediately after it's used. Long term consequences however, have been demonstrated to be detrimental to the child's development and inferior to some other methods.

Your statements about this generation having a lack of respect for authority lacks sources and an explanation why respect born out of fear, rather than reason, is a good thing.

[Spires]

CommandantOreo, on 25 November 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Somehow, we got the delusion that we are above animals and that physical discipline on children is barbaric, yet we give in to other "animalistic" desires such as mating. I think the % of delinquents will rise in the future because of the simple lack of respect or regard for authority and elders. Corporal Punishment is simply a tool to try and combat it.(which usually works)

Not that I hope I'm right though. Maybe the next generation of kids will be the best we've seen in years.(I wish)

I haven't actually heard of any mammals that really punishes their young the same way humans can. Care to share any example?

[Tybalt]

Well, I'd say it's probably not the act of spanking that is useful. It's the harshness of response. "Don't do that." is far less convincing than "You had better not do that." Even if the implied threat isn't enacted. It's got little to do with whether or not the parent actually hits the kid, fear can be induced without physical action. Like talking to dogs, lower your tone and increase breath volume as you issue a command and they'll listen more readily than a softer, higher pitched command. You don't have to beat the dog for it to learn the difference. The lower one asserts more dominance and inspires compliance.

As far as greater delinquency, I'd chalk it up mostly to more intrusive media sources. They're around, and more able to report on these things than they were in previous time. Poverty is also in an upswing lately, and I'd wager that there's a close tie between increased poverty and increased crime rates. The 20s may have been, relatively speaking, more behaved (rum runners aside) because people were on the average richer and less stresses wouldn't mar mentalities of young folks. Similar to the 50s, I'd imagine. But the impact of those would be relatively limited because no period of time is without poverty.

Also, possibly, it might seem as though folks are less behaved now because we still value their transgressions as bad. There was a time when the Flappers were viewed negatively, but now we don't have a problem with dressing like that so their transgressions don't seem like a problem. Shifting values producing different opinions of how well behaved folks now might have been from back in the day.

[HempKnight]

Spires, on 25 November 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

I haven't actually heard of any mammals that really punishes their young the same way humans can. Care to share any example?

Wolves, lions, tigers and bears oh my! Virtually all carnivores for that matter use physical punishment, wolves bite muzzles and ears, bears do much of the same, etc.

[Xalusta]

HempKnight, on 25 November 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

You appear to be very dense. If YOU say there is no benefit from something then YOU need to provide evidence, this isn't guilty until proven innocent. You didn't reference studies, you said, and I'll quote it again, "I propose a study be done in the same way that countless studies have been done" What studies? Whose studies? Where would these be? How many was it again? What did they base their claims on? Criminal record, therapist assessments, what?

If you say spanking is not beneficial then you need to prove that, or leave it as a matter of opinion. If I say there is a juggling vampire walrus under the surface of Mars do you have to disprove it or do I have to prove it? I would have made the claim therefore I would need to prove it.

Once again, the studies have already been presented. What studies and whose studies? The ones I've repeatedly referenced with the links to them. I'm not entirely sure what it is you're trying to claim hasn't been done - people have found the studies and conveniently posted links to them, the idea that you can say no one has presented evidence is simply false. There is no room for discussion on that point. Your only response this far has been to say that it's impossible for a study to be carried out and you've said this without even looking at them. The fact that you are so desperately trying to ignore this fact, as well as trying to use an incorrect and irrelevant idea of the burden of proof, speaks volumes (as has your reliance on unprovoked ad hominems throughout this entire discussion, and not only because they show the upbringing you keep praising never taught you how to behave in an even moderately acceptable or civil manner).

[HempKnight]

http://www.parentdis...-good-for-kids/
http://theweek.com/a...hild-successful
http://madamenoire.c...pank-your-kids/
http://www.divinecar...ng-children-bad

Well would you look at that, I can find conflicting evidence in thirty seconds. The first two state with a formal study and a psychologist that spanking is not only not a "bad parenting" method but the children who were spanked are more successful in life and more likely to do volunteer work. The second says what I already said more than once, it depends on the child. And lastly you have one where there are two conflicting arguments from two different professionals on the same page.

The burden of proof lies with the person who makes the claim, YOU made the claim that it was wrong then try to say "well someone else posted some links before". Could you not be bothered to back up your own claim? Maybe couldn't find any other "proof" other than what Aramil already posted? Or did you just feel like being lazy while trying to argue a point that is unprovable?

[AramilTheElf]

HempKnight, on 25 November 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

http://www.parentdis...-good-for-kids/
http://theweek.com/a...hild-successful
http://madamenoire.c...pank-your-kids/
http://www.divinecar...ng-children-bad

Well would you look at that, I can find conflicting evidence in thirty seconds. The first two state with a formal study and a psychologist that spanking is not only not a "bad parenting" method but the children who were spanked are more successful in life and more likely to do volunteer work. The second says what I already said more than once, it depends on the child. And lastly you have one where there are two conflicting arguments from two different professionals on the same page.

The burden of proof lies with the person who makes the claim, YOU made the claim that it was wrong then try to say "well someone else posted some links before". Could you not be bothered to back up your own claim? Maybe couldn't find any other "proof" other than what Aramil already posted? Or did you just feel like being lazy while trying to argue a point that is unprovable?

The third one is an opinion piece that has no evidence to back it up.

The fourth one is the opinion of a single "expert", not a study.

The first one only evaluates two seemingly random variables. With dozens of variables related to what constitutes a "better" child, it is not unlikely that those two variables simply are coincidentally higher, considering that there is no online version of the study that I could find, there is no way to know.

As for the second one, if you look deeper into, the study has never been accepted into a scientific journal for peer review. Also, while the study included 2600 participants, the conclusions reached were only based on 70 participants. I admit that my last source is fairly biased, but until I can find an actual copy of the study and its findings, I'm inclined not to believe the study over the hoards of other studies I have seen confirming the exact opposite.

[ConservativeParty]

HempKnight, on 25 November 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

http://www.parentdis...-good-for-kids/
http://theweek.com/a...hild-successful
http://madamenoire.c...pank-your-kids/
http://www.divinecar...ng-children-bad

Well would you look at that, I can find conflicting evidence in thirty seconds. The first two state with a formal study and a psychologist that spanking is not only not a "bad parenting" method but the children who were spanked are more successful in life and more likely to do volunteer work. The second says what I already said more than once, it depends on the child. And lastly you have one where there are two conflicting arguments from two different professionals on the same page.

The burden of proof lies with the person who makes the claim, YOU made the claim that it was wrong then try to say "well someone else posted some links before". Could you not be bothered to back up your own claim? Maybe couldn't find any other "proof" other than what Aramil already posted? Or did you just feel like being lazy while trying to argue a point that is unprovable?

While I believe reasonable physical punishment such as spanking to be beneficial, there are just too many variables to judge whether  or not the child turns out properly.  A child of a drunken asocial family will likely turn out much the same, spanking or no spanking. Monkey see, monkey do. People are products of their environment.  I know you are not in school anymore, but you can probably remember that the loser, trashy kid also had the trashy low class parents nine times out of ten.

[HempKnight]

ConservativeParty, on 26 November 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

While I believe reasonable physical punishment such as spanking to be beneficial, there are just too many variables to judge whether  or not the child turns out properly.  A child of a drunken asocial family will likely turn out much the same, spanking or no spanking. Monkey see, monkey do. People are products of their environment.  I know you are not in school anymore, but you can probably remember that the loser, trashy kid also had the trashy low class parents nine times out of ten.

True story. I think it depends mostly on the child, some will benefit from spanking where they would turn out to be delinquents without it and others never need that harsh of a punishment because disappointing their parents is bad enough for them. I don't see any correlation with children who were/are spanked resorting to violence to solve their problems or "thinking less of themselves" because they got a swat on the ass. Abused children maybe, but not kids who were just spanked.

[Milikeny]

The problem is people tend to not know where to draw the line and it goes from spanking to abuse. I think the government was just trying to lessen this confusion even though its a bad call. If we would just know that beating the living crap out of our kids =/= a beating we would probably never had this law afflicted on us in the first place.

[Dragonvoid]

Parents who spank should have their children taken from them.