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Denounce the Mineshafter!


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#21

Rufus
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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:48 PM

View PostTurboSaxophonic, on 09 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

I can add my own "reformed pirate" story here, nothing special but still. Back when MC was in Alpha, before 1.2 and when creative was free and part of the MC website, I pirated the full game to see if it was any good after liking creative mode. My PC was ­ty, so it couldn't run it for crap, but I still loved it regardless. I bought it because it was wonderful even with the godawful lag, and it's been with me through 2 generations of ­ty computers before ending up on my nice newest one that runs it smooth as butter. If I hadn't pirated it, I wouldn't have bought it due to limited money and a ­ty PC, but the sheer fun of it made it worth buying in spite of the setbacks.

P.S.: If one good thing comes out of this thread, it's "The Notch". I say we refer to him by that from now on just because.
That's not bad. There was no demo and you wanted to see if the game was good. There wasn't a whole lot of Youtube coverage back then either. But you immediately bought the game, you didn't make excuses that you would buy it eventually when you had some spare money.

My own story is similar. I didn't pirate it, but someone I know did. Actually, that too is not really accurate. It was a legitimate log-in, just not his own. His friend had already bought the game and told him the log-in details. Anyway, he came to me and told me what was going on. I was curious as I'd heard of Minecraft but didn't know much about it. So we both sat down and had a little play with it and both loved the game. Less than an hour later we both got out our credit cards and both bought the game.
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#22

sczmaster
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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:49 PM

Stop making me feel bad about not paying for minecraft yet! I might just have to buy it right now to shut you guys up! ;)

#23

Jetra
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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

You need to get off your high horse and accept the facts: if it's possible to steal, then people will steal. Fear of God or not, all they care about is self-pleasure. They use stupid excuses to justify their arguments. Are we any better? Here, we're justifying buying basically a toolset that is updated constantly, thus requiring a rewrite of the security code every time.

Is anyone willing to change their game's security every single time a new version comes out? I wouldn't cause that would be a waste of time that can be used towards making a better product and money which also can go the same way.

I am neither for nor against pirates, but the fact is that they're here and we're not going to get rid of them like the common cold. Pirates are everyday people, they are a many-headed beast with no heart. Let people pirate, you're going to lose money either way because if  people don't pirate the game, they just give their copy to another friend who gives it to their friend and so on (used game). So, either pirating or sharing, we're all perpetrators of taking money from Mojang, yet they still update. Why?

Cause they are in it for the enjoyment people feel when playing it. They want to share their product to the world, not profit off of it like some evil empire like Apple or Microsoft or Wal Mart. We need more coders like them, who are willing to put the effort in even when they know that it's going to be a loss one day.

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#24

Hyperventilate

Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

View Postsczmaster, on 09 November 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

LOL. I am making good pirates look bad? What? You either pirate stuff or not. But I think you know what I mean. I really don't pirate much at all. When I do It is to play games I have long since lost. Like dling diablo 2 cause I dont want to dig out the disks. Or downloading music, I already own and am too lazy to convert to wav. So I download it. If I like something I still buy it. If I pirate a game I don't like I don't buy it and I dont play the pirate copy either.

The notch said it was OK thing was just a joke. He knows that if someone likes the game they will buy it. Like I will. LOL. It's just that too many xbox games that I NEED, have come out in such a short time. My video game budget it stretched. I will buy minecraft though. Just not this second.

Bad pirates are those who dont pay for a single thing. Even the things they love.

Your diablo ref and your music ref are invalid. Provided you live in the united states, you are allowed one backup of any media you own a physical copy of. You own a Skyrim soundtrack? You can download the music and it won't be illegal -- you purchased a copy. Same for Diablo.

That's not piracy, that's backing up.

What games do you "need"? Halo 4? that's not a need, it's a want. A need is something you have to have in order to survive. Water, food, shelter, warmth. I doubt a FPS counts as a need.

Life is not measured in the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.


#25

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:57 PM

View Postsczmaster, on 09 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Huh, I always thought if I can't afford the game I could just download it anyways and play it for free.... LOL whoever said it was a right? Minecraft it the only game I play that I don't own. It's not like I pirate every game I play. And I know I dont need any games, that was a joke. But fallout, skyrim, cod, halo 4, RE6... those are all games I want and cost 3x as much as minecraft. You guys are just mad that I am playing minecraft for free right now.

Would Jackie Chan eat a jelly doughnut without going "mmmmmm"? No. And I wouldn't not pay for minecraft. Graphics are the most important part of any game.
The rights part wasn't actually directed at you, that's why I left the extra spacing, but I see it applies. You can keep telling yourself that you would pay for it but you need to pay for those other games, but I, you and everyone else knows you won't. There will always be the next Fallout, CoD, Halo or whatever else, and you will always make the same justifacation; 'I would pay for it but I need to buy [insert game here] first'.

And yeah, myself and others are a bit mad; we have a right to be. We support developers and understand that if you can't afford something then you don't get that something. Like I said, gaming is a luxury and if you can't afford it then you don't get to take part. It sucks, but that's the way the world and, more importantly, business works.
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#26

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:00 PM

View PostHyperventilate, on 09 November 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Your diablo ref and your music ref are invalid. Provided you live in the united states, you are allowed one backup of any media you own a physical copy of. You own a Skyrim soundtrack? You can download the music and it won't be illegal -- you purchased a copy. Same for Diablo.

That's not piracy, that's backing up.

What games do you "need"? Halo 4? that's not a need, it's a want. A need is something you have to have in order to survive. Water, food, shelter, warmth. I doubt a FPS counts as a need.

LOL I said I was kidding about needing it. I was also joking about being able to afford all those 60$ games but can't afford minecraft. Hahah, Im not really trying to defend pirating, that would be hard to. Just saying that, yes, I would rather buy those games than pay for minecraft. And honestly, I have no excuse besides being lazy and not wanting to set up a paypal account! But I will buy the game.

I know, I know, I am still an evil pirate!

Hmm, I am not American BTW. I should change that.

#27

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:04 PM

View PostHyperventilate, on 09 November 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

I played on servers all the time while on my pirated Minecraft. Granted, I was Steve (I'm still Steve) so skins weren't an issue for me since, well, I'm in first person 100% of the time -- I never see my skin.
It's not like skins are useful anyways, I've had Minecraft for over a year and I still use default skin. Besides being on an offline mode server is kind of nice, don't have to deal with the overused skins people use.

View Postsczmaster, on 09 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Graphics are the most important part of any game.
I'm guessing you haven't played many good games if you think that.

#28

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:09 PM

But hey, to everyone, I understand why you'd be upset! I am too when ppl dont pay for something I have. To be honest I was mostly just kinda stiring the pot if you know what I mean... It's not like I said I would never buy the game. Just that I haven't yet. I used those dumb examples just to create conversation about pirating.

I am well aware that there are no exuses for pirating other than just not caring. But I do care about it, which is why I WILL buy the game. Maybe even today. Just cause you guys made me feel guilty about playing for free!

Still though, when there is a game I am not sure about, I will pirate it, test it out, if i like it, I buy it, if I don't, i delete it. No one loses any money cause I wouldn't have bought the game anyways, and If I did it would have been a waste of money.

View PostMute, on 09 November 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

I'm guessing you haven't played many good games if you think that.

Heheh, I was just kidding, but it is true. Without graphics you wouldn't see anything and have no game to play! BTW, my favorite game is fallout 2. So i didn't mean what you think.

#29

Hyperventilate

Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:15 PM

You seem to be "kidding" a lot.

Life is not measured in the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.


#30

HTMLfreak
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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:30 PM

I hate these pirates too, but there isn't much we can do about it, if one goes down another one will be put up. Its not fair on us lot, since we paid for it. All i can say is just try and shame the people who do use it.
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#31

Hyperventilate

Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

View PostHTMLfreak, on 09 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

I hate these pirates too, but there isn't much we can do about it, if one goes down another one will be put up. Its not fair on us lot, since we paid for it. All i can say is just try and shame the people who do use it.

Shaming is an inappropriate way of doing things.

Life is not measured in the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.


#32

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 09:34 PM

View PostRufus, on 09 November 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

The rights part wasn't actually directed at you, that's why I left the extra spacing, but I see it applies. You can keep telling yourself that you would pay for it but you need to pay for those other games, but I, you and everyone else knows you won't. There will always be the next Fallout, CoD, Halo or whatever else, and you will always make the same justifacation; 'I would pay for it but I need to buy [insert game here] first'.

And yeah, myself and others are a bit mad; we have a right to be. We support developers and understand that if you can't afford something then you don't get that something. Like I said, gaming is a luxury and if you can't afford it then you don't get to take part. It sucks, but that's the way the world and, more importantly, business works.

I agree with everything except this. I would want people to enjoy my game regardless, if I ever made a game.

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#33

3p1cfa1L

Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:47 AM

some people who pirate simply can't afford whatever they've pirated...FO I'll buy it when i've got the cash

#34

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:56 AM

View Post3p1cfa1L, on 10 November 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

some people who pirate simply can't afford whatever they've pirated...FO I'll buy it when i've got the cash

That is a dirty lie. I know plenty of people who have the money, but don't want to pay.

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#35

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:16 PM

Pirating is a sensitive issue. To be truthfull, there really isn't much you can do about pirating, people always find a way, so it's sort of silly to put so much effort into stopping pirating.

The truth is, there really is only one true way to combat pirating. You have to not be a corporate jerk, and the fine people at Mojang succeed at that greatly. If your a nice person, people will want to be nice back, and I think Notch understood this from the beginning. And an excellent way of not being a corporate jerk is to not try to put the smack down on pirates.

On a much lighter note, I recommend that you all go and download a copy Cory Doctorow's new book Pirate Cinema (which as you might have guessed from the title has to do with pirating, which is why it's related with this topic.) He's set up a free download on his website, so go read it! The book has some very insightful opinions internet crimes, more so then I can offer atleast.
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#36

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:44 PM

View PostIncredibleMeh, on 10 November 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

The truth is, there really is only one true way to combat pirating. You have to not be a corporate jerk, and the fine people at Mojang succeed at that greatly. If your a nice person, people will want to be nice back, and I think Notch understood this from the beginning. And an excellent way of not being a corporate jerk is to not try to put the smack down on pirates.


Yep. You nailed it. Notch knew, and even wrote blog posts, about how him not seeing pirates as a bad thing. He wanted people to enjoy his game no matter what, and it made people think differently. It made people understand that this guy just wanted people to have fun, and they wanted to help him out.

Then, you get big corporate companies that try to squash pirates. Well, people just try to rebel.

It's almost human nature to rebel against the rules.

#37

3p1cfa1L

Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:16 PM

View PostJetra, on 10 November 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

That is a dirty lie. I know plenty of people who have the money, but don't want to pay.

Who are you to say who has enough money to buy something? you've never met me, you don't know my background , how can you call me a liar without knowing me? I've been saving for weeks to actually buy the game and will when I have the money. Posted Image
I got to think about money for other things too: college, school, sports, there are other things besides video games!

View PostIncredibleMeh, on 10 November 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Pirating is a sensitive issue. To be truthfull, there really isn't much you can do about pirating, people always find a way, so it's sort of silly to put so much effort into stopping pirating.

The truth is, there really is only one true way to combat pirating. You have to not be a corporate jerk, and the fine people at Mojang succeed at that greatly. If your a nice person, people will want to be nice back, and I think Notch understood this from the beginning. And an excellent way of not being a corporate jerk is to not try to put the smack down on pirates.

On a much lighter note, I recommend that you all go and download a copy Cory Doctorow's new book Pirate Cinema (which as you might have guessed from the title has to do with pirating, which is why it's related with this topic.) He's set up a free download on his website, so go read it! The book has some very insightful opinions internet crimes, more so then I can offer atleast.
Try his other books too I've read Little Brother and For the Win six times!

#38

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:49 PM

I think thats an interesting topic.

When i started with minecraft the creative,browserbased version was considered to be the demo. It wasn't released yet, and one could prepurchase for 10 €. My boyfriend had a pirated copy from someone else, but it did not even take half an hour until i bought Minecraft using paypal. That meant i went without a monthly fee for any mmo that month. In most cases, monthly fees are THE way to get me to spend money on a game. Or Inventory Space, Character Slots... stuff like that.
I consider Minecraft the BEST investition i made concerning games. I am very happy that i bought so early. Some weeks later i bought a key for my boyfriend as i didn't want him to continue using the pirated client, and another month later i bought a key for my brother as birthday present. He was really happy about it. But with the current price... thats more than i have as a present budget.
The nephew (dunno if thats the right word- son of the sister of my boyfriend), 11 years old, very complicated background, absolutely loves Minecraft. It's extremely hard to keep him busy, we don't have a TV... and i used to take care of him some times so his mother gets some free time for herself. He's absolutely happy if he may come over to play minecraft. I have been letting him play offline on a friends laptop, or with my boyfriends account on BFs PC when my BF was out. And if his mother would tell me that she has time for that, i would install it on her PC with my account so that he can play offline at home. well, his mother did not call , and i don't have the resources anymore to take care of him.

I wanted to buy minecraft for this boy's last birthday. And then got shocked because it has become too expensive. I could not even buy it for myself if i hadn't already. I doubt i would now because the graphics look so old. I'm sad i did not get him a copy while it was 10 €.  
He has no chance of buying it himself. The ones he knows that could buy it for him don't see whats so great about it. So he has his pokémon and TV and thats it. I don't know any play-opportunity he has that involves creativity. Just makes me sad Posted Image
And i doubt that Notch would have a problem if i installed minecraft on his mums PC with my account. well, she doesn't call, maybe she forgot...

I usually don't have a favorite game, after a while  i need a break from everything. there are very few games where buying is justified , if i play a game maybe 24 hours in one year... or even less, budget about max 15 € a month for games... it has to have things i really like that over games don't have. And especially when it comes to games release 9 years or longer ago, i don't see the point in paying. I had Guild Wars 2 as a present. I bought Sacred twice just because it wasn't that expensive when i bought and its a great game. My brother gave his "share-license" for Sacred 2 to me. I bought some MMOs with subsciption-based system, which is still the system i prefer. All features, when i want them.
But for Singleplayer games, most of them are just not good enough for me to be considered worth to buy them. especially if basegame+addons sum up to over 200 €. Thats just laughable from my point of view, if the actual "play time" is taken to account... would be over 20 € for one HOUR of playing in my case. And the play time is so short because when playing i soon get reminded why i stopped the last time. Bugs, perfomance, crashes...

TL;DR:

There are some games that deserve my money, and if a game does i will save for that game. There are even some that are promising enough that i will buy them without testing- the coming simcity is such a game. I will be saving my game budget for that and deny myself subscriptions for that time.

If a company wants people to not pirate, i think subscription based models and f2p with cash-shop models are the way to go.
Or, like minecraft, if i have the chance to deceide that it's worth my money i will gladly pay. Buying Minecraft is was the decision i did never regret and totally worth it, even if there are some months in which i simply don't play it.

#39

BC_Programming
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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

View Postsczmaster, on 09 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Huh, I always thought if I can't afford the game I could just download it anyways and play it for free.... LOL whoever said it was a right?
You just did in that Same sentence.

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You guys are just mad that I am playing minecraft for free right now.
No, not really. We just think your ad hoc justifications are poorly thought out and illogical.

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Would Jackie Chan eat a jelly doughnut without going "mmmmmm"? No. And I wouldn't not pay for minecraft. Graphics are the most important part of any game.

nice. double-negatives. "Wouldn't not pay" = "would not not pay" = "would pay". So when do you plan to do this? Ideally you could explain this without using another double-negative.

I also am unsure what the jelly donut analogy is supposed to mean. A person eating a donut and making a sound is hardly even something that could be used to make even a forced comparison to the play of a  game. I am having two issues here, the first is with the confusing and hard to follow material in your posts, riddled with double-negatives and ad hominems, and the second is in trying to come to terms with the fact that you actually thought what you were posting made sense.


On another note, if somebody can't spare the cost of minecraft, then they likely have bigger problems than not having minecraft, and should probably focus on that.

#40

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:52 PM

View Post3p1cfa1L, on 10 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Who are you to say who has enough money to buy something? you've never met me, you don't know my background , how can you call me a liar without knowing me? I've been saving for weeks to actually buy the game and will when I have the money. Posted Image
I got to think about money for other things too: college, school, sports, there are other things besides video games!


Try his other books too I've read Little Brother and For the Win six times!

I have to gone school with people who flashed fifties in the lunch line. You're not getting any pity from me,  pal.

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