its not a mod its where the idea of equivalent exchange came from lol.
No, you're a little bit confused. First off, equivalent exchange has nothing to do with Full Metal Alchemist, and any similarities are purely coincidental (the reason why they both have a philosopher's stone is because it's from classical alchemy, FMA didn't invent it) and there is a FMA mod in progress, somewhere on the forums.
No, you're a little bit confused. First off, equivalent exchange has nothing to do with Full Metal Alchemist, and any similarities are purely coincidental (the reason why they both have a philosopher's stone is because it's from classical alchemy, FMA didn't invent it) and there is a FMA mod in progress, somewhere on the forums.
Well, technically, the new similarities are intentional, IIRC. The previous ones about equivalent exchange in general and Philosopher's Stones are definitely classical alchemy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Better Than Wolves: where the line between morality and immorality is a mile wide and has loops in some places." - Stormweaver
Hey question Pahimar, if you don't mind answering. If the pre2 does have the dynEMC system in it, can we also assume we can actually use it? I mean, the dusts are in on the current version and we can't use them, so I was just curious.
So the P-Stone is going to be an infinite Minium Stone? I like that already, but P wants it difficult to get and just not simply created. Perhaps a complex machine could be created who's purpose is to create the P stone.
How's this:
A pedestal (not as expensive as the DM pedestal)
You create an Unstable Philosophers Stone and place it in the pedestal. The recipie could be like someone else mentioned, a diamond block and minium stones, redstone, glowstone, anyways, expensive.
Once you place the UPS (lol didn't intend that acronym) into the pedestal you need to get away from it, it will begin absorbing life from anything in it's immediate vicinity. Let's say this thing needs to kill about 50 creatures and then it will be converted into a Philosophers Stone. So you can create P-Stones now, and the most effective way would be to tie it to a mob grinder dumping victims in it's vicinity to be drained by it. Since Minium drops from mobs I think this would be a suitable system to generate it. Not to mention the most efficient systems would require you to build a large mob grinder.
Anyone else like this idea? I kinda thought of it since EE always reminds me of the Full Metal Alchemist anime series. And since the stones in there were created by taking life this could mirror the same. Heck you could even make it so that Villagers make the stone generate faster, or maybe they are require to create a Dark Philosophers Stone. Ooo now that sounds interesting. What would we make with that? (Dark Philosopher Stone in inventory should = instant agro from Iron Golems in any village regardless of popularity)
On a second note, another thing I've wanted to see is a change in a lot of the instant acquisition of material in EE. Sure I loved the transmutation tablet, but after a while you don't even have to mine anymore. (Well at least I don't since I have it in a mod pack and can easily run machines to gather for me.)
I like the energy condensers immensely, and would like to see a variation of them return since it has been mentioned machines for EMC usage and creation will be in. No free energy creation this
Matter Deconstructor - An EMC generator. This is basically the antimatter relay returned, only that it's used purely for destroying items. It requires that it be connected to a storage device before it consumes any blocks. (Recipe could be 8 obsidian with 1 minium stone in the center) If this machine runs slow then a faster version can be crafted, a Mk2 using a Philosophers stone in place of the minium stone and the former machine in the center bottom row.
Matter Beam Tube - EMC transit. Used to connect the Deconstructor with an EMC storage device or any device that uses EMC. A Deconstructor can be located directly adjacent to a storage device and never need tubes, but now you can separate them or connect many storage devices to one deconstructor.
EMC Capacitor - The battery of sorts for EE. There are multiple levels of capacitor each using the different klien stars. The recipie is simply 8 obsidian with a klien star in the center. Breaking this block drops the 8 obsidian and the klien star charged with whatever level of energy was in the Capacitor.
Matter Reconstructor - The return of the energy condenser. This block is your new material generator. It draws EMC from your system and uses it to create more of the "seed" material you provide it with. In the center of the machine is a target window where you place your seed material and a resource window. This machines efficiency increases depending on what resources you provide it with. Another of the same seed material in the resource window will double the speed, or you can place a minium stone here and the machine will operate significantly faster until it burns up the stone, which happens after a certain number of items has been created. And of course once you get a Philosophers stone you can put it here for the speed boost to be permanent.
These are just ideas I'm coming up with. I don't see all of them going in but hopefully the creator will see it and it will give him an idea of what exactly he wants in it.
What about the transmutation tablet, but that for every conversion a portion of energy is consumed or given off (primordial plasma/plasmatic antimatter?) so that no transmutation is ever 1:1 (lossy). Depending on certain factors/composition/instability, transmutation from original state to new state might cause more energy loss. (I am thinking of the tendency of High Voltage trying to become a lesser voltage state, essentially trying to "balance"). Perhaps there could even be an appliance that captures the primordial plasma and distills it to primordial essence. (Alchemical Distillery or combined with new recipes/uses for potion bench?) Then once in primordial essence form, there could be some way to transform it further into other states... Matter, Energy, Meta.
You could even go on to create the Vacuous Workbench. ( the vacuum of space contained in a workbench, in order to have less lossy transmutations) This could be hooked up to something like an solar condenser or lightning rod. (Some way to gather earth energy) Note: This would not be fuel for a transmuation, but only a means of performing a less lossy xmute or gather other resources. (Still lossy though)
On a second note, another thing I've wanted to see is a change in a lot of the instant acquisition of material in EE. Sure I loved the transmutation tablet, but after a while you don't even have to mine anymore. (Well at least I don't since I have it in a mod pack and can easily run machines to gather for me.)
I like the energy condensers immensely, and would like to see a variation of them return since it has been mentioned machines for EMC usage and creation will be in. No free energy creation this
Matter Deconstructor - An EMC generator. This is basically the antimatter relay returned, only that it's used purely for destroying items. It requires that it be connected to a storage device before it consumes any blocks. (Recipe could be 8 obsidian with 1 minium stone in the center) If this machine runs slow then a faster version can be crafted, a Mk2 using a Philosophers stone in place of the minium stone and the former machine in the center bottom row.
Matter Beam Tube - EMC transit. Used to connect the Deconstructor with an EMC storage device or any device that uses EMC. A Deconstructor can be located directly adjacent to a storage device and never need tubes, but now you can separate them or connect many storage devices to one deconstructor.
EMC Capacitor - The battery of sorts for EE. There are multiple levels of capacitor each using the different klien stars. The recipie is simply 8 obsidian with a klien star in the center. Breaking this block drops the 8 obsidian and the klien star charged with whatever level of energy was in the Capacitor.
Matter Reconstructor - The return of the energy condenser. This block is your new material generator. It draws EMC from your system and uses it to create more of the "seed" material you provide it with. In the center of the machine is a target window where you place your seed material and a resource window. This machines efficiency increases depending on what resources you provide it with. Another of the same seed material in the resource window will double the speed, or you can place a minium stone here and the machine will operate significantly faster until it burns up the stone, which happens after a certain number of items has been created. And of course once you get a Philosophers stone you can put it here for the speed boost to be permanent.
These are just ideas I'm coming up with. I don't see all of them going in but hopefully the creator will see it and it will give him an idea of what exactly he wants in it.
There was a reason why energy collectors and condensers were removed.
What about the transmutation tablet, but that for every conversion a portion of energy is consumed or given off (primordial plasma/plasmatic antimatter?) so that no transmutation is ever 1:1 (lossy).
One of the big things about Alchemy is Equivalent Exchange. Hence the mod name. It's all about equal conversion, since matter is neither created or destroyed, losing EMC for some reason would lose the heart of the mod.
Also @ Sourpowerpete what is the exact reason condensers were removed? I haven't heard the full reason yet.
1. One of the big things about Alchemy is Equivalent Exchange. Hence the mod name. It's all about equal conversion, since matter is neither created or destroyed, losing EMC for some reason would lose the heart of the mod.
2. Also @ Sourpowerpete what is the exact reason condensers were removed? I haven't heard the full reason yet.
1. Well that's a balance decision to make the mod more difficult. Also, in the Fullmetal alchemist anime (both) and the manga, where the title Equivalent Exchange comes from, they explain that transmutation is actually quite lossy because you have to consider the massive amount of energy needed to do the conversions.
2. Also a balance decision, both the collectors and the condensers were very, VERY op.
Alright when you put it that way yeah they were very OP. Although in FMA I don't remember alchemy being lossy. Sure you used your own energy to do things but it seemed to be more like magic in a game and although there was a limit to how much you could do at once you could do as much as you wanted over time, and the Philosophers stone just let you preform great tasks or impossible tasks at the cost of how one was made of course.
Away from the anime though I do agree the insane EMC generation with the collectors was way OP. However I would still like to see the condensor. Not any EMC generation or very little period, but since I normally combine this mod with others I like being able to rig up the transmutation system with an automatic mining system to supply it with EMC.
One of the big things about Alchemy is Equivalent Exchange. Hence the mod name. It's all about equal conversion, since matter is neither created or destroyed, losing EMC for some reason would lose the heart of the mod.
And how do you propose reassembling these things, much less breaking them down without adding any energy to the system? While matter and energy are neither created or destroyed, they are pretty regularly changed-- which was the other half of your big point. Heck that's the whole underlying point of the mod on the whole, changing matter and energy back and forth to make something more than both. Losing EMC as part of the creation process would represent that whole thing about change without making it too terribly unwieldy.
I've got some pretty cool ideas for EMC transportation and non-portable storage. I wonder if these will become a part of later releases of this mod?
Inert Transmatter Pipe: The basic form of EMC transportation. It uses about a couple Iron, some smooth Stone and maybe 2 Shards of Minum and 1 Gold Ingot. Because it is an inert version of the Transmatter Pipes, it won't send very much EMC through it and is prone to leaking EMC over moderate distances. It should make up to a total of 16 of these for the recipe. Another problem with having these is the fact that these can only be placed much like Redstone Dust, so even though it's really cheap, it's not exactly efficient.
Minium Transmatter Pipe: A better form of EMC transportation. It can transport a bit more EMC, but it still suffers from the same leaking problems that the Inert Transmatter Pipes have, but it makes working with EMC a little better. Instead of using a Gold Ingot, it will use a Minium Stone to produce these pipes. Unlike the Inert Transmatter Pipe, this will make 4 of these for the recipe, additionally, it's going to take small chunks of the Minium Stone's endurance because it is giving off some of its EMC conversion abilities over to these Pipes. A nice benefit with these pipes is that you can place these much like you could if you were placing Redstone Cables from RedPower 2.
Glowstone Transmatter Pipe: A much more efficient form of EMC transportation. This can transport about as much EMC as the Minium Transmatter Pipe can, but this doesn't have nearly as much trouble with EMC leaking as these pipes can transport EMC a longer distance than the other two before it. It is a little costly though as it takes 4 Glowstone Blocks, 2 Shards of Minium, and 3 Gold Ingots. Furthermore, if you really prefer to use this to have more freedom transporting EMC, then you'll be glad to know that these can be placed similar to how BuildCraft Pipes can be placed. You'll get 8 of these, much like you would if you were crafting BuildCraft Pipes.
DM Transmatter Pipe MK I: One of the costly, yet efficient forms of EMC transportation. This can transport twice as much EMC as a Glowstone Transmatter Pipe can,but the downside is that these can only be placed much like Redstone Dust would be. However, can you really argue with these having about a moderately low chance of EMC leakage? Oh, and do be careful when it does leak, it could potentially leak out some of the "Red Water" stuff. It'll require 4 Glowstone Blocks, 2 Dark Matter, and 3 Gold Ingots, which will give you 8 of these pipes.
DM Transmatter Pipe MK II: About 0.5 times better EMC transportation than the MK I and the ability to be placed much like Redstone Cables, you could say this is a better means of transportation, but there is a little bit of a hitch. The crafting recipe calls for 2 Dark Matter, 4 Gold Ingots, 2 Shards of Minium, and 1 Diamond. Pretty expensive, but you do get 12 in total to compensate for the trouble of making these pipes.
DM Transmatter Pipe MK III: Being 3 times better than the MK II in terms of EMC transportation, you wouldn't expect less from its costly nature. Using a total of 5 Diamonds, 2 Minium Stone and 2 Dark Matter, this is one of the most expensive types yet, but you do get 20 of these pipes for using that much considering how much EMC is being put to make this thing! Oh, and these also have the kind of freedom that is similar to BuildCraft Pipes.
Transmatter Node: The lesser form of the EMC storage objects. It doesn't hold very much EMC, but it can help extend the length of Transmatter Pipes.
Greater Transmatter Node: Better storage than its lesser other, great for if you happen to happen to get some slight EMC overflow.
Transmatter Sphere: Better than the nodes, this can be great for when you are getting a hang of using EMC to transmute various objects.
Transmatter Crystal: These can store plenty more EMC than the Sphere, it'll be worth using in case you really want to expand your EMC storage. Do expect that this will require a Diamond.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Come visit my Scroll on Dragon Cave here: My DC Scroll
1. Well that's a balance decision to make the mod more difficult. Also, in the Fullmetal alchemist anime (both) and the manga, where the title Equivalent Exchange comes from, they explain that transmutation is actually quite lossy because you have to consider the massive amount of energy needed to do the conversions.
EE was never, and will probably never be based on FMA. If you want that, look for the FMA mod.
Alright when you put it that way yeah they were very OP. Although in FMA I don't remember alchemy being lossy. Sure you used your own energy to do things but it seemed to be more like magic in a game and although there was a limit to how much you could do at once you could do as much as you wanted over time, and the Philosophers stone just let you preform great tasks or impossible tasks at the cost of how one was made of course.
Away from the anime though I do agree the insane EMC generation with the collectors was way OP. However I would still like to see the condensor. Not any EMC generation or very little period, but since I normally combine this mod with others I like being able to rig up the transmutation system with an automatic mining system to supply it with EMC.
Well you can make an artificial "collector" by using IC2 to macerate blaze rods, or an automatic cobble gen, etc. The point wasn't just doing transmutation, it was automation on a large scale, especially on multiplayer. That's the point of the condenser being removed.
EE was never, and will probably never be based on FMA. If you want that, look for the FMA mod.
I was just quoting what Pahimar said, not word for word, but he brought up FMA and the energy topic when he was being interviewed on MineTV. Also, while its not limited by FMA, it is very strongly influenced by it.
Alright when you put it that way yeah they were very OP. Although in FMA I don't remember alchemy being lossy. Sure you used your own energy to do things but it seemed to be more like magic in a game and although there was a limit to how much you could do at once you could do as much as you wanted over time, and the Philosophers stone just let you preform great tasks or impossible tasks at the cost of how one was made of course.
Away from the anime though I do agree the insane EMC generation with the collectors was way OP. However I would still like to see the condensor. Not any EMC generation or very little period, but since I normally combine this mod with others I like being able to rig up the transmutation system with an automatic mining system to supply it with EMC.
The anime seems to show a lot of energy being involved in the process of transmuting just the matter alone. Heck, I'm not sure about the first anime, but in the manga/Brotherhood the philosopher's stones were mostly just that overpowered because the energy they contained was massive. Just because you use energy and that energy can't be destroyed doesn't mean you get any useful form of energy back. Most systems have really terrible efficiency in that regard.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Better Than Wolves: where the line between morality and immorality is a mile wide and has loops in some places." - Stormweaver
The anime seems to show a lot of energy being involved in the process of transmuting just the matter alone. Heck, I'm not sure about the first anime, but in the manga/Brotherhood the philosopher's stones were mostly just that overpowered because the energy they contained was massive. Just because you use energy and that energy can't be destroyed doesn't mean you get any useful form of energy back. Most systems have really terrible efficiency in that regard.
No, you're a little bit confused. First off, equivalent exchange has nothing to do with Full Metal Alchemist, and any similarities are purely coincidental (the reason why they both have a philosopher's stone is because it's from classical alchemy, FMA didn't invent it) and there is a FMA mod in progress, somewhere on the forums.
Well, technically, the new similarities are intentional, IIRC. The previous ones about equivalent exchange in general and Philosopher's Stones are definitely classical alchemy.
How's this:
A pedestal (not as expensive as the DM pedestal)
You create an Unstable Philosophers Stone and place it in the pedestal. The recipie could be like someone else mentioned, a diamond block and minium stones, redstone, glowstone, anyways, expensive.
Once you place the UPS (lol didn't intend that acronym) into the pedestal you need to get away from it, it will begin absorbing life from anything in it's immediate vicinity. Let's say this thing needs to kill about 50 creatures and then it will be converted into a Philosophers Stone. So you can create P-Stones now, and the most effective way would be to tie it to a mob grinder dumping victims in it's vicinity to be drained by it. Since Minium drops from mobs I think this would be a suitable system to generate it. Not to mention the most efficient systems would require you to build a large mob grinder.
Anyone else like this idea? I kinda thought of it since EE always reminds me of the Full Metal Alchemist anime series. And since the stones in there were created by taking life this could mirror the same. Heck you could even make it so that Villagers make the stone generate faster, or maybe they are require to create a Dark Philosophers Stone. Ooo now that sounds interesting. What would we make with that? (Dark Philosopher Stone in inventory should = instant agro from Iron Golems in any village regardless of popularity)
I like the energy condensers immensely, and would like to see a variation of them return since it has been mentioned machines for EMC usage and creation will be in. No free energy creation this
Matter Deconstructor - An EMC generator. This is basically the antimatter relay returned, only that it's used purely for destroying items. It requires that it be connected to a storage device before it consumes any blocks. (Recipe could be 8 obsidian with 1 minium stone in the center) If this machine runs slow then a faster version can be crafted, a Mk2 using a Philosophers stone in place of the minium stone and the former machine in the center bottom row.
Matter Beam Tube - EMC transit. Used to connect the Deconstructor with an EMC storage device or any device that uses EMC. A Deconstructor can be located directly adjacent to a storage device and never need tubes, but now you can separate them or connect many storage devices to one deconstructor.
EMC Capacitor - The battery of sorts for EE. There are multiple levels of capacitor each using the different klien stars. The recipie is simply 8 obsidian with a klien star in the center. Breaking this block drops the 8 obsidian and the klien star charged with whatever level of energy was in the Capacitor.
Matter Reconstructor - The return of the energy condenser. This block is your new material generator. It draws EMC from your system and uses it to create more of the "seed" material you provide it with. In the center of the machine is a target window where you place your seed material and a resource window. This machines efficiency increases depending on what resources you provide it with. Another of the same seed material in the resource window will double the speed, or you can place a minium stone here and the machine will operate significantly faster until it burns up the stone, which happens after a certain number of items has been created. And of course once you get a Philosophers stone you can put it here for the speed boost to be permanent.
These are just ideas I'm coming up with. I don't see all of them going in but hopefully the creator will see it and it will give him an idea of what exactly he wants in it.
You could even go on to create the Vacuous Workbench. ( the vacuum of space contained in a workbench, in order to have less lossy transmutations) This could be hooked up to something like an solar condenser or lightning rod. (Some way to gather earth energy) Note: This would not be fuel for a transmuation, but only a means of performing a less lossy xmute or gather other resources. (Still lossy though)
Just bouncing around some ideas
-Reevalot got me thinking.
There was a reason why energy collectors and condensers were removed.
One of the big things about Alchemy is Equivalent Exchange. Hence the mod name. It's all about equal conversion, since matter is neither created or destroyed, losing EMC for some reason would lose the heart of the mod.
Also @ Sourpowerpete what is the exact reason condensers were removed? I haven't heard the full reason yet.
1. Well that's a balance decision to make the mod more difficult. Also, in the Fullmetal alchemist anime (both) and the manga, where the title Equivalent Exchange comes from, they explain that transmutation is actually quite lossy because you have to consider the massive amount of energy needed to do the conversions.
2. Also a balance decision, both the collectors and the condensers were very, VERY op.
Away from the anime though I do agree the insane EMC generation with the collectors was way OP. However I would still like to see the condensor. Not any EMC generation or very little period, but since I normally combine this mod with others I like being able to rig up the transmutation system with an automatic mining system to supply it with EMC.
And how do you propose reassembling these things, much less breaking them down without adding any energy to the system? While matter and energy are neither created or destroyed, they are pretty regularly changed-- which was the other half of your big point. Heck that's the whole underlying point of the mod on the whole, changing matter and energy back and forth to make something more than both. Losing EMC as part of the creation process would represent that whole thing about change without making it too terribly unwieldy.
Inert Transmatter Pipe: The basic form of EMC transportation. It uses about a couple Iron, some smooth Stone and maybe 2 Shards of Minum and 1 Gold Ingot. Because it is an inert version of the Transmatter Pipes, it won't send very much EMC through it and is prone to leaking EMC over moderate distances. It should make up to a total of 16 of these for the recipe. Another problem with having these is the fact that these can only be placed much like Redstone Dust, so even though it's really cheap, it's not exactly efficient.
Minium Transmatter Pipe: A better form of EMC transportation. It can transport a bit more EMC, but it still suffers from the same leaking problems that the Inert Transmatter Pipes have, but it makes working with EMC a little better. Instead of using a Gold Ingot, it will use a Minium Stone to produce these pipes. Unlike the Inert Transmatter Pipe, this will make 4 of these for the recipe, additionally, it's going to take small chunks of the Minium Stone's endurance because it is giving off some of its EMC conversion abilities over to these Pipes. A nice benefit with these pipes is that you can place these much like you could if you were placing Redstone Cables from RedPower 2.
Glowstone Transmatter Pipe: A much more efficient form of EMC transportation. This can transport about as much EMC as the Minium Transmatter Pipe can, but this doesn't have nearly as much trouble with EMC leaking as these pipes can transport EMC a longer distance than the other two before it. It is a little costly though as it takes 4 Glowstone Blocks, 2 Shards of Minium, and 3 Gold Ingots. Furthermore, if you really prefer to use this to have more freedom transporting EMC, then you'll be glad to know that these can be placed similar to how BuildCraft Pipes can be placed. You'll get 8 of these, much like you would if you were crafting BuildCraft Pipes.
DM Transmatter Pipe MK I: One of the costly, yet efficient forms of EMC transportation. This can transport twice as much EMC as a Glowstone Transmatter Pipe can,but the downside is that these can only be placed much like Redstone Dust would be. However, can you really argue with these having about a moderately low chance of EMC leakage? Oh, and do be careful when it does leak, it could potentially leak out some of the "Red Water" stuff. It'll require 4 Glowstone Blocks, 2 Dark Matter, and 3 Gold Ingots, which will give you 8 of these pipes.
DM Transmatter Pipe MK II: About 0.5 times better EMC transportation than the MK I and the ability to be placed much like Redstone Cables, you could say this is a better means of transportation, but there is a little bit of a hitch. The crafting recipe calls for 2 Dark Matter, 4 Gold Ingots, 2 Shards of Minium, and 1 Diamond. Pretty expensive, but you do get 12 in total to compensate for the trouble of making these pipes.
DM Transmatter Pipe MK III: Being 3 times better than the MK II in terms of EMC transportation, you wouldn't expect less from its costly nature. Using a total of 5 Diamonds, 2 Minium Stone and 2 Dark Matter, this is one of the most expensive types yet, but you do get 20 of these pipes for using that much considering how much EMC is being put to make this thing! Oh, and these also have the kind of freedom that is similar to BuildCraft Pipes.
Transmatter Node: The lesser form of the EMC storage objects. It doesn't hold very much EMC, but it can help extend the length of Transmatter Pipes.
Greater Transmatter Node: Better storage than its lesser other, great for if you happen to happen to get some slight EMC overflow.
Transmatter Sphere: Better than the nodes, this can be great for when you are getting a hang of using EMC to transmute various objects.
Transmatter Crystal: These can store plenty more EMC than the Sphere, it'll be worth using in case you really want to expand your EMC storage. Do expect that this will require a Diamond.
EE was never, and will probably never be based on FMA. If you want that, look for the FMA mod.
Well you can make an artificial "collector" by using IC2 to macerate blaze rods, or an automatic cobble gen, etc. The point wasn't just doing transmutation, it was automation on a large scale, especially on multiplayer. That's the point of the condenser being removed.
I was just quoting what Pahimar said, not word for word, but he brought up FMA and the energy topic when he was being interviewed on MineTV. Also, while its not limited by FMA, it is very strongly influenced by it.
The anime seems to show a lot of energy being involved in the process of transmuting just the matter alone. Heck, I'm not sure about the first anime, but in the manga/Brotherhood the philosopher's stones were mostly just that overpowered because the energy they contained was massive. Just because you use energy and that energy can't be destroyed doesn't mean you get any useful form of energy back. Most systems have really terrible efficiency in that regard.
Too bad, so sad.
You beat me to the part about energy.
Red matter is gone, but nothing has been said about the furnaces.