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Using the Anvil to combine like enchantments


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35 replies to this topic

#1

Darkfyre99

Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:10 AM

Well, I've been playing around with the new Anvil, and here's one interesting feature...

you can combine like enchantments to create a greater enchantment!

Two Level I enchants will yield a level II enchant.

Two Level II enchants will yield a level III enchant.

And you guessed it, Two Level III enchants will yield a level IV enchant.

The cost, however, is rather high...

For Efficiency, combining two level I enchants costs 4 levels.

Combining two Level II enchants costs 7 levels

Combining three Level III enchants costs 11 levels.

Unbreaking cost 7 levels to combine two Unbreaking I enchants.  I'm willing to bet that the cost varies for other enchants as well.

Notice that if you make an Efficiency IV tool by combining lesser level enchantments.  The cost of this is 8 levels for 8 Efficiency I tools, 16 levels to combine 8 E1 tools into 4 E2 tools, 28 levels to combine 4 E2 tools into 2 E3 tools, and finally 11 levels to combine 2 E3 into a single E4.  This is a total cost of 63 levels, so as a tool for custom enchantments, this is rather expensive.

But if you've got a bunch of lesser enchantments, after you've used up most of the item, you at least can get a better one by combining them.
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#2

QuiqkSilver

Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:40 AM

I dont know, im quite annoyed with it now. It wont let me name some items. I have a Gold Helmet i crafted in survival that has Aqua Affinity, Respiration and Protection on it and when i stick it in the anvil it wont let me name it. I tried naming another gold helmet and it worked fine. Its definitely got some bugs.

#3

ducksquack666
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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:47 AM

Yeah, although i love how we don't have to throw away our damaged tools, and we can drop anvils on mob's heads, why does Jeb expect us to have all these levels? I mean, come on Jeb! For three or four repairs you'll have to kill a ender dragon!!! It's crazy!

#4

Hybran
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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:15 AM

View Postducksquack666, on 12 October 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

Yeah, although i love how we don't have to throw away our damaged tools, and we can drop anvils on mob's heads, why does Jeb expect us to have all these levels? I mean, come on Jeb! For three or four repairs you'll have to kill a ender dragon!!! It's crazy!

I propose to you, the Ender Ender.

And your problem is solved.

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#5

FireKit
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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:06 AM

You got to have a mob exp farm to use it often. People with endermen exp farms are likely mighty happy.

Even without a farm you can get okay exp killing blazes or with pumpkin on head and a good sword killing endermen in the end the regular way.

#6

Black_Drath
  • Location: Australia
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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:17 AM

I have a few complaints with the anvil repair. It has some pretty stupid limitations which significantly impairs its usefulness and have been added for no reason that I can see.
First of all, the most limiting thing is that you cannot repair/combine items if the cost of doing so exceeds 40 levels. This means that combining 2 powerful items becomes impossible, even if you have the levels required. If the player works hard to get those levels, shouldn't he be able to spend as many as he pleases?
Renaming a tool costs 15 levels. 15 whole levels! I can understand it costing maybe one or two levels, but 15 is pretty ridiculous. This also means that it is impossible to rename powerful tools, because attempting to do so will push you over the 40 level cap. Also, renaming a tool more than once costs more than 15 levels, increasing by 150% each time according to the wiki.
Also, repairing the same tool more than once will increase the cost of repairing that tool each time, even if you are just repairing you tool with a normal unenchanted tool of the same type each time. This means that you cannot keep your super-powerful pickaxe and keep repairing it because eventually it will become too expensive to be possible. I don't think this should be a limitation. Powerful tools should be expensive to repair, but their expense should not go up every time, that doesn't seem fair.
Also, why does the anvil break? It already costs levels to use, why do we have to spend 55 iron ingots to get ourselves a new anvil every so often? It's the only block that has this limitation, and I don't understand why it does.

Things, I am happy about though are the fact we can do this at all, the fact that combining enchantments of the same level increases the level, the repair cost takes the rarity and power of the enchantment into account, that you can rename any items (even if it does cost 5 levels for a non tool item) and that you can drop anvils on people and squash them.

So, overall, I like the addition of the anvil, but it needs some work. I would be satisfied with only the level cap being removed, though I would like all my issues with it to be fixed.

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#7

BC_Programming
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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:23 AM

View Postducksquack666, on 12 October 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

why does Jeb expect us to have all these levels? I mean, come on Jeb! For three or four repairs you'll have to kill a ender dragon!!! It's crazy!

Jeb didn't make the anvil. Even without a mob farm with the changes to XP it usually only takes maybe a night out killing mobs to get to lvl 30. (Not to mention mining and now breeding giving you experience)

#8

Knochenbowser
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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:23 PM

I love how people always push issues to the leader, not the people that created it in the first place.

#9

Sven_The_Slayer

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:56 PM

View PostBlack_Drath, on 12 October 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

I have a few complaints with the anvil repair. It has some pretty stupid limitations which significantly impairs its usefulness and have been added for no reason that I can see.
First of all, the most limiting thing is that you cannot repair/combine items if the cost of doing so exceeds 40 levels. This means that combining 2 powerful items becomes impossible, even if you have the levels required. If the player works hard to get those levels, shouldn't he be able to spend as many as he pleases?
Renaming a tool costs 15 levels. 15 whole levels! I can understand it costing maybe one or two levels, but 15 is pretty ridiculous. This also means that it is impossible to rename powerful tools, because attempting to do so will push you over the 40 level cap. Also, renaming a tool more than once costs more than 15 levels, increasing by 150% each time according to the wiki.
Also, repairing the same tool more than once will increase the cost of repairing that tool each time, even if you are just repairing you tool with a normal unenchanted tool of the same type each time. This means that you cannot keep your super-powerful pickaxe and keep repairing it because eventually it will become too expensive to be possible. I don't think this should be a limitation. Powerful tools should be expensive to repair, but their expense should not go up every time, that doesn't seem fair.
Also, why does the anvil break? It already costs levels to use, why do we have to spend 55 iron ingots to get ourselves a new anvil every so often? It's the only block that has this limitation, and I don't understand why it does.

Things, I am happy about though are the fact we can do this at all, the fact that combining enchantments of the same level increases the level, the repair cost takes the rarity and power of the enchantment into account, that you can rename any items (even if it does cost 5 levels for a non tool item) and that you can drop anvils on people and squash them.

So, overall, I like the addition of the anvil, but it needs some work. I would be satisfied with only the level cap being removed, though I would like all my issues with it to be fixed.

I was so excited for this snapshot that I wanted to update my server with it, and I hate using a snapshot on my server but I've been looking forward to this feature for a while.  Anyway... I loaded a copy of my server I had and tried to repair the tools I had stashed away because they were about to break and to my horror they are all unrepairable because they are past the level cap already.  They were not even that good of swords.  Each with sharpness and one with looting the other had fire aspect.  I can repair them with a new unenchanted sword but I naming them puts them past the cap.  I wanted to combine then repair and name but being level 42 just to combine the two it is impossible.
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#10

v3912
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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:11 PM

two level IV enchantments will give you a level V.
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#11

Arkhangels

Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:48 PM

Yeah, maybe the level requirements are a little too much. But we can be glad that it's just a snapshot, and nothing is set in stone.
We are testing it exactly to see if it is balanced. All that we must do is bring this to Dinnerbone's attention.
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#12

skyqula
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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:23 PM

View PostBlack_Drath, on 12 October 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

1. First of all, the most limiting thing is that you cannot repair/combine items if the cost of doing so exceeds 40 levels.

2. Also, repairing the same tool more than once will increase the cost of repairing that tool each time, even if you are just repairing you tool with a normal unenchanted tool of the same type each time.

3. Also, why does the anvil break? It already costs levels to use, why do we have to spend 55 iron ingots to get ourselves a new anvil every so often? It's the only block that has this limitation, and I don't understand why it does.

1. Its to prevent people creating the best gear and use it forever.

2. Yeah I agree, I dont like this feature.

3. I dont have a problem with this. If point 2 didnt exist it would basicly be trading away the RNG for a price in iron.

#13

rodabon
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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:24 PM

View PostKnochenbowser, on 12 October 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

I love how people always push issues to the leader, not the people that created it in the first place.

That's what it means to be a leader.  You take a lot of crap, but you also get a lot of the credit when things go well.  

View Postskyqula, on 12 October 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

1. Its to prevent people creating the best gear and use it forever.
But isn't that the point?  It's like false hope.  If they want to limit the gear then just make the system limited to only combinations that are possible on the enchantment probabilities table and let us repair items as long as we like.  It still costs quite a bit of XP and an item of the same type.
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#14

Trace500
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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:00 PM

I think the strangest thing is not being able to rename powerful enchanted items, because those are the only ones worth renaming. I also dislike the repair level limit, it really restricts what's possible with the anvil.
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#15

Sven_The_Slayer

Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:10 PM

View PostTrace500, on 12 October 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

I think the strangest thing is not being able to rename powerful enchanted items, because those are the only ones worth renaming. I also dislike the repair level limit, it really restricts what's possible with the anvil.

It's basically useless.  The only items worth repairing are the ones you CAN'T repair.  Sure you can throw a few low level enchantments together to get a better one but that item to will become un-repairable too.  I really don't understand the point of adding a repair system that cannot even repair anything worth while.  Who actually cares if we are able to craft up to the max enchanted items?  It will take a lot of resources and levels to do so and is not game breaking because you can get lucky initial enchantments for much cheaper.  Hell I would rather have the ability to indefinitely repair my favorite sword then this useless limited ability to combine enchantments.  At least then when you do get lucky and get something good you can keep it.  Right now you are still forced to roll the dice every time your high level tools break because the repair system CAN'T repair them.
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#16

skyqula
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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:07 AM

View PostSven_The_Slayer, on 12 October 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

It's basically useless.  The only items worth repairing are the ones you CAN'T repair.

I dunno, a simple looting III sword or fortune III pick would defenitly be something worth repairing. You can even slab on unbreaking or efficiency and still be able to repair it a few times. I realy dont need to have the perfect pick and repair that forever. I can do with 3 suboptimal picks just fine (fortune, silk and unbreaking + efficiency).

View Postrodabon, on 12 October 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

But isn't that the point?

You can still make the best items, you just cant repair those. And lets face it, thats a good thing. Otherwise its just a matter of time before everyone has the best gear and be able to use it forever. Is that realy fun? And from a designers POV, how do you balance new features? With everyone using these powerfull items in mind? As a player id sure love to have the best gear. Being able to use it forever would be even more awesome. But is that realy balanced?

#17

InfiniteTurbine
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Posted 14 October 2012 - 05:03 PM

View PostTrace500, on 12 October 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

I think the strangest thing is not being able to rename powerful enchanted items, because those are the only ones worth renaming. I also dislike the repair level limit, it really restricts what's possible with the anvil.
I'm angered by this. On a server, I got a bow with Power IV, Punch II, Flame I, and Infinity I straight out of the enchantment table. Then I tried for a regular Power IV bow. I combined them in an anvil, and figured out i could make the best bow in the game. The only problem is I CAN'T EVEN NAME IT. If I attempt changing the letters, it says it is "Too Expensive!".
I only hope that this is fixed, there shouldn't be a limit there when trying to name the item.

#18

rodabon
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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:32 AM

View Postskyqula, on 13 October 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

You can still make the best items, you just cant repair those. And lets face it, thats a good thing. Otherwise its just a matter of time before everyone has the best gear and be able to use it forever. Is that realy fun? And from a designers POV, how do you balance new features? With everyone using these powerfull items in mind? As a player id sure love to have the best gear. Being able to use it forever would be even more awesome. But is that realy balanced?

What's not balanced is that it allows a player to unlimitely repair the second best item, which is not that much weaker, but make a mistake and get your prized item too high and you just have to watch it go bye bye.  Thats what most people don't like.  The system should be 'idiot proof'. It should set the line and not let you cross it, instead of penalizing you if you do.  That's what most people are unhappy with, well that and the fact that naming your item actually means it will be weaker to stay under the limit.
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#19

XylethTheAlmighty
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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:57 AM

Either naming should be free or it shouldn't interfere with the cost limit.

But that's just my opinion.....

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#20

Darkfyre99

Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:17 AM

View Postrodabon, on 15 October 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

What's not balanced is that it allows a player to unlimitely repair the second best item, which is not that much weaker, but make a mistake and get your prized item too high and you just have to watch it go bye bye.  Thats what most people don't like.  The system should be 'idiot proof'. It should set the line and not let you cross it, instead of penalizing you if you do.  That's what most people are unhappy with, well that and the fact that naming your item actually means it will be weaker to stay under the limit.

Why on earth do you think a game should be "idiot proof?"  Any game where you can't fail is boring IMO, and there's little enough room for failure in vanilla Minecraft as it is, once you've gotten beyond the initial stages of development.
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