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Magic and Spells in minecraft


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33 replies to this topic

Poll: Should there be magic in Minecraft? (86 member(s) have cast votes)

Should there be magic in Minecraft?

  1. DEFINITELY: I want to shoot lightning out of my fingertips and rule the laws of nature! (24 votes [27.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.91%

  2. Yeah: I want to be able to use rudimentary and elemental magic to assist me in exploration and innovation. (17 votes [19.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.77%

  3. Sure: Why not? You make a valid point, casting a fireball sounds kinda cool. (10 votes [11.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.63%

  4. Meh: I'm still not convinced. CONVINCE ME FOO! (5 votes [5.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.81%

  5. Nah: Magic and Minecraft don't really mix. (15 votes [17.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.44%

  6. Nope: (Neck extends) Magic would ruin the experience. (No offense, bro). (11 votes [12.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.79%

  7. F*** Y**!!!: (Insert nasty-ass troll comment here) (4 votes [4.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.65%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1

Stickbabiga

Posted 01 February 2011 - 07:46 PM

I'm not going to mince words here, so let me give it to you straight. I think there should be magic in Minecraft.
I posted a comment suggesting magic in a Let's Play video on Youtube. I got about 300 likes on the comment, but a ton of hate messages from other users saying, "If you want to use magic, go play Runescape or some shit." And although my responses were witty and not outright angry, I couldn't help but get a sense of doubt that maybe magic wouldn't fit in Minecraft.

My argument to support the use of magic is that "We're talking about a game with zombies :Zombie: , skeletons :Sheep: , giant spiders :Spider: , and wood that floats in mid air :Logs^: , why wouldn't there be magic? If wizardry is bullshit, then exploding green penises :SSSS: deserve a category all there own."

But I want to know what you think.

:DORE:  :VV:  :VV: Should there be magic in Minecraft? :Diamond:  :Diamond:  :Diamond:
IF YOU CAST A VOTE, PLEASE LEAVE A COMMENT EXPLAINING WHY YOU CHOSE WHAT YOU CHOSE. THX


I might add another topic discussing what kind of magic/spells you can use in game, if there was magic.
I start out each morning with a nice, hot cup o' Minecraft!

It's pronounced stick-BOB-i-guh. Got it? 'Kay then.

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#2

freaky91
    freaky91

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 08:04 PM

I don't know, I think that would not work very good...magic would make you to overpowered i guess. Someone else somewhere suggestet crafting potions which make you run/mine faster, thats also something i would not support. Same thing here. I chose "convince me" so please, go ahead :DBlock:
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#3

Stickbabiga

Posted 01 February 2011 - 08:30 PM

freaky91 said:

I don't know, I think that would not work very good...magic would make you to overpowered i guess. Someone else somewhere suggestet crafting potions which make you run/mine faster, thats also something i would not support. Same thing here. I chose "convince me" so please, go ahead :o


AHA! Therein lies the main problem! True, if magic was possible you might as well be using hax. So what made Harry Potter, a book about magic, so popular? I'll tell you, LIMITS The ministry of magic limited magic in Harry Potter, physical energy limited magic in Eragon, runes limited magic in Runescape, and an MP bar limited magic in %99 of RPGs. See where I'm going with this? We need an element that limits magic use.
I start out each morning with a nice, hot cup o' Minecraft!

It's pronounced stick-BOB-i-guh. Got it? 'Kay then.

#4

Zaubermeister

Posted 01 February 2011 - 08:46 PM

I kinda like the idea, and yeah, of course keep limits.
Though i don't see how it would really be overpowered much, if it takes a few swings from a sword to kill a spider, whats to keep magic taking a few casts to kill the same spider?

plus I'd think adding some magic type things would make game play even more expansive and add more options to those fighters out there looking for baddies to kill
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#5

Stickbabiga

Posted 01 February 2011 - 08:51 PM

Zaubermeister said:

I kinda like the idea, and yeah, of course keep limits.
Though i don't see how it would really be overpowered much, if it takes a few swings from a sword to kill a spider, whats to keep magic taking a few casts to kill the same spider?

plus I'd think adding some magic type things would make game play even more expansive and add more options to those fighters out there looking for baddies to kill



Now you see where I'm coming from! A few ideas I thought could be converting coal into diamonds (with a fair ratio or large cost of course). Converting the physics of blocks (give stone gravity like sand/gravel). Instant teleport to Nether.

I can go on with the possibilities, you only have to ask. :)
I start out each morning with a nice, hot cup o' Minecraft!

It's pronounced stick-BOB-i-guh. Got it? 'Kay then.

#6

nikgames
  • Location: UK

Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:31 PM

I wouldn't mind really. You could craft a lot of spell books using stuff like flint and steel, book and diamond. You could then merge it with your magic staff to create a fire staff.

Would be something like this.

Magic Staff ( [>>-i>] )
:SSSS:  []  []
:Iron:  []  []
:|:  []  []

Book of fire ( :Lava: )
{SMILIES_PATH}/flintnsteel.png  :)  :Diamond:
[]  []  []
[]  []  []

Fire staff
[]  :Lava:
[>>-i>]  []


:SSSS: =book

#7

Giordano

Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:58 PM

I can't see magic in Minecraft. The monsters like zombies ring more like Star Wars technology rather than elves-and-dwarves fantasy....meaning that magic-like powers should come from technological/logical reasons. Zombies get infected by parasite/virus rather than a magical curse, big vaults and their locks are due to redstone mechanics rather than magical locks, minecarts rely on tracks rather than float everywhere, etc.

One thing that really hurts my point is portals...maybe if redstone is involved it could be pulled off as a technological wonder, but its the only thing in Minecraft that feels magic-y.



The portal seriously reconsidered my view. While I'm still not too much in favor with magic in-game, I can't flatout deny it's usage anymore.

Though you might want to look in the Mods forum, if I remember correctly there are some magic spells and runes and such.

#8

Stickbabiga

Posted 01 February 2011 - 10:00 PM

Giordano said:

I can't see magic in Minecraft. The monsters like zombies ring more like Star Wars technology rather than elves-and-dwarves fantasy....meaning that magic-like powers should come from technological/logical reasons. Zombies get infected by parasite/virus rather than a magical curse, big vaults and their locks are due to redstone mechanics rather than magical locks, minecarts rely on tracks rather than float everywhere, etc.

One thing that really hurts my point is portals...maybe if redstone is involved it could be pulled off as a technological wonder, but its the only thing in Minecraft that feels magic-y.



The portal seriously reconsidered my view. While I'm still not too much in favor with magic in-game, I can't flatout deny it's usage anymore.

Though you might want to look in the Mods forum, if I remember correctly there are some magic spells and runes and such.




But what about skeletons? No virus can do THAT! But I think the portal could be explained technologically, but that's beside the point lol.
I start out each morning with a nice, hot cup o' Minecraft!

It's pronounced stick-BOB-i-guh. Got it? 'Kay then.

#9

Morgath
    Morgath

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:54 AM

Magic would be awesome!  Magic stuff is pretty cool.  I agree with all htat you said.  Although, there would need to be limits, not just CAST CAST CAST CAST CAST dead.  Like maybe craft a tablet or somethin that allows your to cast whatever you made.  Somethin around those lines.  But anyway, it would be a neat addition to the game.  :D  :SSSS:

#10

Zancie
    Zancie

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:56 AM

No guns, No magic. Ever. Ever. Never ever. Ever.































EVER!
Pig's run from me, for I am THE PIG TAMER!

#11

soulslayer88
  • Location: Inside your Slayen soul

Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:59 AM

I dont think they go very well. But if you want some sort of magic go on a server that has runecraft its a great server mod if your lazy or you like experimenting with new things.
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#12

Beltir
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Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:14 AM

While I normally love magic, I don't think it is suitable for minecraft.

The way it is now, you use the land to fight creatures. The only magical thing you can make/use is a portal, which serves 1 use, and cannot move. Now, this idea is better than most I see for magic, by having limits, but whats to stop this from being overpowered by itself. Currently the ideas for magic have taken 1 of 2 approaches to attempt to make balance.
First being a "Glass cannon" approach. Limited number of uses, but deals massive damage.A glass cannon is not balanced by having limited uses.
Second by using a lot of rare material. This approach is terrible. Okay it takes a while to get, and then you never return to anything weaker.

Now comes to my second point, which is the main argument I have against magic. What would magic provide that is not already in game?
If its damage, you have swords and bows. Swords are your close range, high damage, but high risk weaponry, and bows are your tactical, high cost weaponry. They are balanced in this way.
If it is converting coal to diamonds, When I go digging through caves, In one minecraft day and night with a diamond pickaxe, I have returned with multiple stacks of coal. Which means a lot more diamonds. Which also means, I don't have to risk digging near lava anymore. Thus, taking away the high risk/high reward for diamonds.
If it is giving gravity to objects, all I can see this helping is griefers in SMP. Aim at a castle roof, and take it all down, thus eliminating hours of work in minutes, and if they have TNT, it will now cause twice the effective damage.

Unless you can convince me against these, I say absolutely not.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --


#13

OpticalShadow

Posted 07 April 2011 - 03:35 AM

Stickbabiga said:

freaky91 said:

I don't know, I think that would not work very good...magic would make you to overpowered i guess. Someone else somewhere suggestet crafting potions which make you run/mine faster, thats also something i would not support. Same thing here. I chose "convince me" so please, go ahead -_-


AHA! Therein lies the main problem! True, if magic was possible you might as well be using hax. So what made Harry Potter, a book about magic, so popular? I'll tell you, LIMITS The ministry of magic limited magic in Harry Potter, physical energy limited magic in Eragon, runes limited magic in Runescape, and an MP bar limited magic in %99 of RPGs. See where I'm going with this? We need an element that limits magic use.


the problem is, trying to make spells not over powered. mp or counsles may limit magic in those stories, but when you casted a fireball it only hurt enemies, not the everything else. in MC a fireball would be like a tnt cannon.

dungeons and dragons (before 4th edition) is a perfect reason of why magic should and shouldnt exsist. its really fun and useful, but it doesnt take much to destroy the multiverse, even with simple spells.
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#14

vizzerdrix

Posted 07 April 2011 - 06:08 AM

Stickbabiga said:

We need an element that limits magic use.
Books. Found in dungeon chests and with limited amounts of charges per book that can be refilled in some manner.

I don't see much need for combat spells (they'd have too negative of an impact on swords and bows), but I'd love a few spells to help me explore. Temporary light sources, ladders and walls. The ability to detect some minerals, see the closest path to the surface, or get a minimap for a few minutes would be handy.

#15

Space_Butler
  • Minecraft: Pashalik_Mons

Posted 07 April 2011 - 06:23 AM

I'm not going to say magic doesn't fit in minecraft.  I mean, it doesn't, for me, but everyone has their own minecraft story.  I voted against it though, because I think if we got magic, it would be some combination of the following:

-Redundant with other forms of damage
-Overpowered/Underpowered
-Super useful for griefing
-Buggy as all hell.
-Just plain not relevant enough to the core gameplay of minecraft.

Also, while any magic system that could circumvent those issues would be really cool, we'd probably get one update's worth of stuff for it, and then it would never get any more dev attention.
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#16

Sneferu
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Posted 07 April 2011 - 10:19 AM

The talk of adding magic to Minecraft is irrelevant.  A few have made the point here that it would likely manifest itself as being redundant, but it goes farther than that.  How would magic be any different than what we are already capable of doing?  So yes, it would most absolutely be redundant.  Down to the deepest core aspects of the game.  How is it not magical that we manifest tools by simply placing items on a block of wood?  How is it no magical that we can open or trigger traps with red dust?  How is it not magical that we can create an infinite amount of light from sticks and burning rocks?  How is it not magical that we can remove several hundred cubic meters of land in an afternoon?  By hand?!
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#17

CaptainHoers

Posted 07 April 2011 - 12:03 PM

It's already been sort of done with the runecraft mod, though i feel there's potential here. Like an extension of the Redstone system already in place. Or if it consumed resources. For example, as a staff-based system, you'd make a staff like so:

[]  :GoldBar:  []
[]  :Pig:  []
[]  :|:  []

Where  :--+: is a Redstone torch, and the diamond can be replaced with other tool-making materials, to less effectiveness, and it might not work with wood or stone at all. I would also imagine that it wears out more quickly than other tools to offset its pure beastliness. The staff can be used as a melee weapon at double wear. The staff functions like a bow, where you have things in your inventory that it consumes to use on a right click. As spell examples...
- The staff consumes a bucket of lava to shoot a ghast-like fireball (with a limited range, say 25 blocks, with an arrow trajectory) (if it's turbo-OP it can consume the bucket aswell)
- It consumes a bucket of water to shoot a blast of water, which would drop a temporary, irretrievable water source at the impact site
- It consumes TNT to shoot an explosive missile
- It consumes a log or sapling to create a tree at the crosshairs (who said all the spells had to be offensive?)
- Likewise it could consume a pork chop to spawn a pig, wool for a sheep, leather for a cow, etc.
- It could consume a flower or rose to create a patch of flowers or roses, which might solve the problem of not being able to cultivate them, at cost
- It consumes a stack of 8 glass blocks to create a glass cage around the target
- It consumes a lump of coal or charcoal to give 60 seconds of light level 14 at the player
- It consumes a cactus block to spawn a small cactus patch
- It consumes a stack of 4 dye to shoot a "dye blast" that dyes all wool blocks in an explosion range
- It consumes an iron or gold ingot or a diamond to briefly show (~15 seconds) any ore of that mineral within about 25 blocks.

Obviously people are going to have more than one of these in their inventories at the same time, so in order to "select" a spell you would put the item you want to consume on your quick select bar. Failing that, the staff would use an order of priority - lava > TNT > glass > water > cactus > coal/charcoal > ingot/diamond > log/sapling > dye > flower/rose > pork chop/wool/leather/feather, going from most to least offensive - if you're in a panic to defend yourself, you want to start hucking fireballs and explosions at enemies before you throw chickens and flowers at them. The offensive spells can be given a few seconds windup and cooldown to prevent spamming. If griefing is a serious enough problem, then the lava and TNT spells can be turned off at server level, or removed entirely, and you'd be left with a significant set of passive spells.

This system has its drawbacks, even with griefing tools removed, in that people with a pile of iron staves could just spam logs, cacti and flowers to get stacks and stacks of materials at relatively little expense, and making the summoned objects phantom kinda takes the point out of it. This brings me to my second suggestion, a rune-based system. First you need to craft a runesmithing table:

:grass:  ;)  :Bench:
:Purple:  :VV:  :DBlock:  
:Pink:  :Black:  :Coal:
( :VV: = Redstone dust)

This is what you create runes on. The table has limited uses like tools do, say about 200 uses before it breaks. Added to this there's the remote chance (1 in 1000 - about 1 in every 5 tables over their lifetime) that it might explode when attempting to craft a rune, creeper style - it snaps you out of the crafting window, the block starts flashing and hissing, and you have about 3 seconds to run the crap away before it goes off. You might also be able to create a basic runesmithing table with glass in place of diamond, which would have 50 uses and 1 in 250 chance of exploding, or an advanced table with obsidian in place of diamond, which would give 500 uses and a 1 in 2000 chance of exploding. Then to actually craft the things, you place four cobblestone and the rune material in a plus sign, like this:

[]  :GoldBar:  []
:GoldBar:  :Rose:  :GoldBar:
[]  :GoldBar:  []

Where the log represents the consumables from the staff system - log makes a tree-creating rune, TNT creates a rocket launcher rune, iron ingot creates an iron ore-finding rune, etc. The runes themselves are single-use spells that work the same way as the staff spells. They can't be stacked, so rather than a griefer turning up with a stack of 64 TNT or fireball runes, they can hold 10 at a time tops before having to stop to reload, and with windup and cooldown to factor in aswell, even with offensive spells on, griefing would be only marginally easier. As for abuse of the system to get lots of materials, it's quite inconvenient and slightly risky to do so - once you spend your 50 max tree runes (which would need 200 cobble and eat up a quarter of the tables' life) and collect all the wood from them, to go back and repeat the cycle you have to... go back to your runesmithing table, spend all the wood you collected, plus four times as much cobblestone (at say, 3 wood per tree, that comes to 150 wood and 450 cobble), using the rest of the tables' life, requiring you to build another to get more, hoping it doesn't blow up in your face, and only then going back out to start spawning trees. There could also be a 1 in 20 chance that the rune is a dud and will just be consumed without doing anything. It could also backfire at even lower chance, though that might just be mean.

In summary, runes disincentivise griefing with and spamming them by making them very risky, resource-intensive and inconvenient to craft in bulk (you have to level mountains to do so) and limiting their offensive uses, while still giving little useful perks to those who use them sparingly. Of course if you're the kind of person that has the time to build entire fortresses out of diamond blocks you'll have no problem hollowing out the world to have chests upon chests of runes, but then this is what the explosion risk is for - in doing so you'll almost certainly have a few tables blow up in your face.

Wow this went on for a long time.

#18

Dantevortex
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Posted 07 April 2011 - 12:49 PM

netherportal, being able to punch through solid rock with your bare hands, Torches running on perpetual energy, made from a stick and a lumb of coal. Punching wool of sheep perfectly without killing the sheep, and the wool also comes off in perfectly packed perfect squares.

Cutting down a tree is overrated, you can punch it up, as you defy gravity and cut down a tree in perfect blocks without the tree falling down or as much as even twitch.

You can cut perfectly shaped diamonds with an iron pickaxe from solid rock.
Oxygen is for pussies, unless you go diving.
You can stand on a rock, surrounded by flowing lava just inches away from your feet, while wearing a blue shirt and not die, or as much as break a sweat.

The only non-magical thing in Minecraft are those odd looking fellas running up to you and then blowing themselves up.
That actually happens. A lot.  :D

So if you add a spell throwing staff into the game, I don't think it will decrease the reality in Minecraft.
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#19

atiaxi
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Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:03 PM

I was under the impression that a Magic system for Minecraft was always something that was coming at some point.  In fact, IIRC, Redstone is magic.

I like the kind of magic feel we have now:  Low-key, obeys certain rules, but isn't overpowered because it can only do so much.
This forum ticked me off so much I went to random.org and set my password to something I'll never be able to remember, then switched my password reset to a throwaway.

#20

Unspoken
  • Minecraft: HiddenFace

Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:10 PM

Notch has stated that if he adds magic, he's not going to add the pew-pew boom fireball magic etc etc.
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