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More efficient Tree farm (Lack of Thereof)


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#1

Snoweh
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 08:04 PM

I'm having a few problems with the efficiency of my treefarms in smp. So while the site is down, I figured I would try and find a better way on the Forums. Here is the way that I have been laying out my treefarms up until now.

:--+:  :(  :Iron:  :GP:
:|:  :|:  :--+:  :Leaves:
:--+:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :Leaves:  :--+:  :Leaves:
:--+:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:

( :Leaves:  equaling saplings)
Its a tileable pattern, that gets enough light everywhere. However, these tree's don't end up growing very fast. It takes days for them to grow, so out of a rather large tree farm, I can only harvest a few every few days. I can't help but think that there must be a better tree farm for the amount of space I'm using. Are they too close? do they need to be farther away from torches? Am I just not patient enough?

I thank you guys in advance. If you'd rather link me to a youtube video or a previous post I didn't see, that would be great too.
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#2

RSMDelons
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 08:11 PM

[]  :D  []
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[]  :VV:  []
Make these scattered.

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#3

Wardhogje
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 08:22 PM

A sapling grows better when it's a minimum of 2 blocks apart from other saplings:

:(   :--+:  :--+:  :P
  :--+:  []  []  :--+:
:--+:   []  []   :--+:
:(  :--+:  :--+:  :D

As RedstoneMinecraft has already said (sort of).
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#4

Snoweh
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 08:24 PM

Thanks, I'll try that out in the singleplayer while smp is down.

Also, any more sugestions?

*edit*
the second post snuck in there

That makes a bit more sense. Thanks for the extra info =)
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#5

Snoweh
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:33 PM

Sorry for the double post, but here is a thought,

Maybe the biome you're in effects how well your tree's will grow?
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#6

TehFrederick

Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:38 PM

Nice, however as bone marrow has been introduced its sort of useless to me. In my entire world which is over 100 mb now I have only destroyed 1 tree for a tree, the rest were for building. I got 1 sapling and just kept farming said tree.
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#7

metman
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:38 PM

I think biome, but I've noticed that altitude seems to as well.  I have a tree farm far up a mountain, and the trees seem to spawn from the saplings less often.  I have noticed though that I get MASSIVE trees (15+, some 40+ wood each) trees if I put torches 3 or 4 blocks above the ground on pillars a few blocks away from the trees.  You might be able to build a scaffolding with lots of toches in the air near the trees and efficiently havest massive trees that grow there.

Adam222 said:

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#8

nudurandal

Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:42 PM

The bigger the tree, the longer it takes to grow.

Lately I've been using this checkerboard pattern, 30x30 in size:

:--+:  :Pig:  :--+:  :DBlock:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:
:YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:
:--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:
:YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:
:--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:
:YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:
:--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:
:YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:
:--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:
:YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:  :YFlower:  :--+:

You have to offset the slow growing rate with larger amount of samplings.

#9

Snoweh
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:46 PM

Thats a really good idea Metman, my tree farms have only had 8 block ceilings so that I could harvest quickly, but a scaffold would solve that problem quickly, and if what you say about the torches are true, that would really help.

I'll try making one and post back the results

And the checkerboard pattern probably would be best i I was making a really large farm.
I would do that, except that this is all for forging smoothstone while I work on the structure during the day. That way I can focus on the structure and harvest at night.

Perhaps if I went ahead and made a giant checkerboard plantation, and then walled it and torched it.

I would need to take down the walls later though.
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#10

rodabon
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:55 PM

I use the pattern in your OP in my indoor tree farm, the room is 8 high on the outer edge and it tapers up to a 4X4 skylight in the middle. Room is like 15X15   My trees grow quickly enough for me.  If I'm in the area and don't harvest trees by the second day at least half of the trees have grown and I get 2-3 full stacks of wood.  Perhaps that's your issue, your not staying in the area so the chunk gets unloaded?
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#11

klawz
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:14 PM

:D  :Orange:  :Orange:
:Leaves:  :--+:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :--+:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:

This is how I do it. Much better than the checkerboard pattern.
Things I have:
[SSSS] [Diamond]
[|]

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ALWAYS is explodding crocadile ?? they look like thi  [SSSS]
i not is buld House . without Crocadile expoldding !!! plz want have i not  [SSSS] !!!!!!!!!

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#12

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:21 PM

As of the most recent update...

1. Place a tree sapling
2. Use Bone Meal on it
3. Harvest the instantly grown tree
4. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Kwickgamer said:

Ahhhh beta: a time for throwing unborn chickens against walls whilst hoping that they grow rapidly. :D

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#13

CheshireHead

Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:22 PM

The truth is, you're never going to get the output from an indoor tree farm that you'll get from an outdoor one. And an underground tree farm? Forget it, those saplings will take *years* to pop.

Here's the problem: when a sapling gets placed, an arbitrarily random time frame is set for the sapling to grow into a tree. When that time period elapses, the game checks to see how large a tree is going to grow. The tree size is random as well, ranging from the wee little 4-block trees to those monstrous, 40-block-high Avatar-like trees. Once the size of the tree is determined, the game checks to see if there's enough room for the tree to grow to that size. If there isn't enough room, the sapling will not grow into a tree and the whole process starts over again. This repeats until the randomly generated tree size will fit in the room available.

So, indoor and underground tree farms are going to grow slower than outdoor, free-range farms just because most indoor/underground tree farms are specifically built to control the size of the trees that are allowed to grow. Right away you're eliminating a whole range of possible sprout times from any sapling planted in your farm, which reduces the number of sprouted trees your farm can produce. This problem is compounded as the trees that DO sprout in your farm reduce the available room for the other saplings, thus reducing their sprouting frequency, and slowing down the farm production even more. So if your farm only has room for five or six 8-block-high trees, it may *never* fully sprout. You CAN offset the problem by making a *massive* tree farm so that even the relatively few trees that pop add up to enough logs for your purposes, but that seems like an awful lot of work to me. (This has not deterred other people from doing it, however.)

For a fast-growing, high-output tree farm, find yourself a heavily forested area (a forest or rain-forest biome, if you're comfortable enough with the game to spot them) and clear-cut all the trees out of where you want your farm. Once the trees are gone, flatten the area so it's level and make sure there's an unbroken stretch of dirt to build your farm on. Set your saplings and torches in the ground like so: (Seen from above)

:DBlock:  :Notch:  :Notch:  :Notch:  :SSSS:  :SSSS:  :SSSS:
:Pig:  :o  :--+:  :|:  :DBlock:  :--+:  :|:
:|:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :DBlock:  :--+:  :Leaves:  :DBlock:  :--+:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :DBlock:  :--+:  :Leaves:  :DBlock:  :--+:  :Leaves:
:Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:  :Leaves:

Where :DBlock: = Sapling, :--+: = Torch, and :Leaves: = Dirt

I have found that a 3X5 grid of trees (for a total of 15 trees) produces a *vast* amount of wood, especially in a biome where trees grow quickly anyway. You can use fences, trenches and cliff-faces to keep mobs out and even a handy underground passageway to GET to the farm, but I find the farm itself works much better when it's allowed to grow in the outdoors. Save the indoor trees for decoration and feng shui. Yes, it means that occasionally you have to deal with a ten-story leviathan that's got umpty-million branches, but that's why you have flint and steel!

*edited for clarity*

#14

Snoweh
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:28 PM

Rodabon, I do have a couple (two) farms that work alright with the tight patten in my example. I couldn't get the amount of wood that I wanted from them though. Maybe they were too small but I don't think so. This discussion is starting to make me think I'm too greedy for wood.

To solve the problem I'm trying to do an above ground farm that is simply large. I hope it works.

Though that single torch idea does look to be the most efficient of an underground farm.

Does anyone know exactly how much faster trees are likely to grow if they're spaced? It seems like we could crunch some actual numbers and improve the tutorial for tree farming on the wiki.

We could do something like, up to X amount of squares the loose pattern is likely to produce more wood per day. After that, the tight pattern is more efficient

...idk

-edit-
CheshireHead, wow! That's an amazing post. Maybe someone shuld add that to the wiki, no? Thank you so much for your enlightening post. I wouldn't have guessed thats what happens, ut I know a little (tiny) bit about coding and what you say makes sense. Thank you very much for the help =)
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#15

wyrmhole
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:35 PM

CheshireHead said:

The truth is, you're never going to get the output from an indoor tree farm that you'll get from an outdoor one. And an underground tree farm? Forget it, those saplings will take *years* to pop.

Here's the problem: when a sapling gets placed, an arbitrarily random timeframe is set for the sapling to grow into a tree. When that time period elapses, the game checks to see how large a tree is going to grow. The tree size is random as well, ranging from the wee little 4-block trees to those monstrous, 40-block-high Avatar-like trees. Once the size of the tree is determined, the game checks to see if there's enough room for the tree to grow to that size. If there isn't enough room, the sapling will not grow into a tree and the whole process starts over again. This repeats until the randomly generated tree size will fit in the room available.

Additional info:  There are two separate algorithms, the small and large tree algorithm.  The small tree one is called 90% of the time, and is actually more restrictive than the large tree algorithm regarding what blocks can be near the tree.  For example, the small tree algorithm won't work if there's a block adjacent to where the trunk would grow, and from 1 to I think 5ish blocks higher than the sapling.

So while you can get trees growing directly adjacent to each other, it'll take on average 10 times longer since you're waiting for it to pick the big tree algorithm.

That said, personally I'm happy with my high-density underground tree farm.  I plant the saplings, I run off and have some adventures, and come back to harvest roughly 2 stacks of wood, replant, and repeat.  Since I'm not building a giant wooden structure at this time, this is suiting me amply.

#16

Snoweh
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Posted 18 January 2011 - 10:47 PM

That's good information to know, I'll take that into consideration next time around. I really need a high output of trees.

I'm not making a wooden structure, but its going to take so much smelting that I'm going to need a lot of wood. Even though I havent been able to make progress because of the server, I've learned a lot about both tree farming and smelting.
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