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Steam Engines

expensive trading iron empire power wealth

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Poll: Steam Engines (2 member(s) have cast votes)

Preferred train?

  1. 4-4-0 American (1 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. 2-8-0 Consolidation (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Other (Please specify) (1 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

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#1

Oventoaster

Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:59 AM

We can already craft powered Minecarts in the game, so it would make sense to be able to craft larger transport. Here are my thoughts on the Steam Engine:

The Trains

The Steam Engine is 1 block wide, 4 blocks long, and 2 blocks tall. The design for the steam engine is based off of the 4-4-0 American first manufactured in 1879:
Posted Image
Any suggestions for crafting recipes are encouraged, but here is a possible one:

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Posted Image is a Powered Minecart

You can replace the Iron Ingots with Gold Ingots for a Gold colored train, if you are feeling wealthy.

Alternatively, here is another train model, the 2-8-0 Consolidation:
Posted Image

Both will have equal power. It will also be possible to dye the trains to personalize them

Technical Details

The Steam Engine has an 13-speed gearbox interface with neutral and reverse gears. The appearance is like that of the stick-shifter that you may find in your car. Each gear increases the speed of the train by 1 block per second, up to a max of 13 blocks per second, faster than the best Minecart transport systems. Operating the train requires placing coal or charcoal into the engine's interface. 1 Coal will run the train for 10 minutes. Better stock up on that Charcoal!

If you are going too fast, your train will derail if it goes around a corner. In fact, it is completely incapable of turning on the current Minecart turn tracks. To remedy this, you can craft a Smooth Turn Track with 5 Minecart Tracks in an L shape. The Smooth Turn Track provides a smooth turn for Steam Engines and can vary in radius. It is planted by defining the start and end points of the track. The minimum radius is 4 blocks, and the max radius is 12 blocks. The Smooth Turn Track can also ascend or descend 3 blocks!

Transport Purposes

The trains will be able to haul up to 30 Minecarts or Minecarts with Chests at one time. You can also make larger cars (with three minecarts and other blocks) that take up three minecarts for the train to pull. This will result in a max of 10 large cars to pull. Connections are made using String by right clicking one cart or train, then the other.

The Train Cars
The train cars' default recipe is three minecarts in a row. This will create a Flatbed, a car that has the ability to have blocks placed on it. Adding other blocks to the recipe allows for more car options:
  • Adding 3 Glass and 3 Wood Planks will make a Passenger Car, capable of transporting up to 6 NPCs, hostile mobs, or players.
  • Adding 6 Fence will create a Cattle Car, capable of transporting the various passive mobs. Again, it has a capacity of 6.
  • Adding 3 Chests or using 3 Minecart With Chests will create a Box Car. It has the storage capacity of 4 chests, rather than the three you get when you keep them separate.
  • Adding 1 Coal and 2 Iron Ingots creates a Coal Car. When directly attached to a Steam Engine, It will automatically fill the engine with coal. Otherwise, you would have to manually fuel the train.
Growth and Wealth

What would be the point of these monster trains anyway? Simple tweaks to Villager AI would help define the trains' purpose:
  • When a Villager spots a player-placed Chest, Minecart with Chest, or Box Car, it will take a look inside for one second. If he finds the item and quantity he is trading for, he will take the items and leave Emeralds in their place. This works the same way if a Villager is selling items.
  • Additionally, once the villagers in a village have made enough successful trades (about 50 or so), new buildings will be added to the village and the population will grow. Maximum growth is defined by the gravel paths a village spawns with. The ability for a train to haul 40 chests' worth of items can prove to be a fast track to wealth, growth, and power (provided you don't entice the rip-off artists!)
Versus Powered Minecarts

Recently, I was asked, "Why not just use the Powered Minecarts?" So here are the benefits the Powered Minecarts will provide versus the steam engines.

Powered Minecarts, right now, are broken and useless. Mojang has confirmed that they will buff the Powered Minecarts. Here is how I propose the buff to go:
  • The Powered Minecart has the capability to pull 5 Minecarts with no consequences. It can pull more, but each minecart added reduces max speed by 1 block per second. Therefore, if the speed was 6 blocks per second, it can pull an additional 5 carts before being rendered immobile. The Powered Minecart will be able to traverse the current Minecart tracks, putting the "Mine" back in Minecarts so to speak.
Now, you might say, "Why not just do this and be done with it?" Here is a comparison between the buffed Powered Minecart and the Steam Engine:
  • Speed: Flat 6 bps (blocks per second) on the Powered Minecart versus 13 speed GUI on the Steam Engine
  • Max carts: 10 (5+5) for Powered Minecart, 42 (30+12) for Steam Engines
  • Cost: 5 Iron and 8 cobblestone versus 15 Iron, 1 Glass and 16 Cobblestone.
  • Size: 1x1x1 versus 1x4x2, with larger train cars being 1x3x2
  • Steam engines require Smooth Turning Track to turn, while Powered Minecarts do not.
  • Max capacity: 270 storage spaces (P. Minecart), 1512 storage spaces (Steam Engine with 14 Box Cars)
Feel free to provide criticism and suggestions to improve this topic. It is quite underwhelming to use Minecarts and tracks for personal purposes.
Feel free to help out my dragon! Keep views to a minimum please!
Posted Image

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#2

Neospector
  • Location: The Temple of Rhinne, Goddess and Transcendent of Time
  • Minecraft: Neospector

Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:08 AM

I simply fail to see why anyone would want to learn a complex way of moving back and forth when you can just place a powered minecart and punch it with coal. A powered minecart:
  • Will not derail on corners, no matter how fast
  • Doesn't have complicated "12 speed gearbox with neutral and reverse" for people to learn
  • Doesn't require of special "grace" tracks to do anything
  • Require several complicated steps and expensive materials just to place one car
  • Can travel in a one-block high space.
So if a powered minecart is cheaper, easier to use, and can run on regular tracks as well as travel through a small space, why have steam engines?

Badgerz said:

You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.

Catelite said:

Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
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#3

Oventoaster

Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:20 AM

View PostNeospector, on 21 June 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

I simply fail to see why anyone would want to learn a complex way of moving back and forth when you can just place a powered minecart and punch it with coal. A powered minecart:
  • Will not derail on corners, no matter how fast
  • Doesn't have complicated "12 speed gearbox with neutral and reverse" for people to learn
  • Doesn't require of special "grace" tracks to do anything
  • Require several complicated steps and expensive materials just to place one car
  • Can travel in a one-block high space.
So if a powered minecart is cheaper, easier to use, and can run on regular tracks as well as travel through a small space, why have steam engines?
  • Powered Minecarts are actually slower than the players themselves
  • The gearbox will probably be a graphical stick-shifter with labeled notches
  • Sometimes I have problems with super-sharp turns messing up my camera. Don't know about other players.
  • All it takes to make a specialized train car is placing blocks above three minecarts in a recipe. How more simple can that get?
  • The trains are meant to be expensive, giving a reason to use all that excess iron, gold, wood and coal you get in a good world map.
  • The player is two blocks high as well as the trains. Attempting to travel in a one-block space will suffocate the player.
  • Finally, adding village growth alongside steam engines provides a quick path to wealth.

Feel free to help out my dragon! Keep views to a minimum please!
Posted Image

#4

Neospector
  • Location: The Temple of Rhinne, Goddess and Transcendent of Time
  • Minecraft: Neospector

Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:34 AM

View PostOventoaster, on 21 June 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

  • Powered Minecarts are actually slower than the players themselves
         They could be buffed, which would be a better suggestion than this one.
  • The gearbox will probably be a graphical stick-shifter with labeled notches
          Great. I still doubt anyone would want to learn it. People are lazy by nature.
  • Sometimes I have problems with super-sharp turns messing up my camera. Don't know about other players.
          Your camera will mess up on most turns, because if you're just sitting there, your camera will remain facing the same direction. Secondly, and I forgot to mention, how do you expect to make "gentle" turns, beside slowing down? The game is made of cubes, right angles. All turns are going to be rough, sorry about that.
  • All it takes to make a specialized train car is placing blocks above three minecarts in a recipe. How more simple can that get?
          You have recipes for every car, every track. It's not a matter of simplicity in the recipes, it's a matter of how many recipes you have.
  • The trains are meant to be expensive, giving a reason to use all that excess iron, gold, wood and coal you get in a good world map.
          Uh,  Iron, gold, and coal definitely have uses. Rails, tools, smelting, generally building to name a few.
  • The player is two blocks high as well as the trains. Attempting to travel in a one-block space will suffocate the player.
          Great, but storage carts can still go through. If you're going to use a one block high path, it's definitely for storage, to save space. Trains can't do that.
  • Finally, Adding village growth alongside steam engines provide a quick path to wealth.
           Villages shouldn't grow; ever tried MillĂ©naire? Those villages will just walk right on through your base, keep expanding even if you want to build your own base larger. It's incredibly annoying.
All I see is a large, bulky, expensive machine that has very little use beyond looking like a train instead of a cart.

Badgerz said:

You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.

Catelite said:

Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Posted Image

#5

Oventoaster

Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:59 AM

View PostNeospector, on 21 June 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

-snip-
  • I can see the Powered Minecart's niche to delve into mineshafts, but steam engines are meant for covering large distances quickly, kind of like rapid transit from base-to-base (sometimes you need to move fast).
  • It's good for people to learn. The graphical stick-shift is just like the one in a car with standard-transmission. Would you be too lazy to learn that?
  • The minecart does not "snap" from one direction to another. It will most certainly be possible to be able to build smooth-turning track.
  • Once you get all your diamond items, you will find an excess of said materials burning holes in your chests, begging for use. A quick path to greater wealth like the Steam Engine is the answer. Additionally, once a train line is set up and the emeralds and resources roll in, you could have enough resources to build even more, transforming your base to a beyond-render-distance empire within the span of Minecraft days rather than real-life days!
  • A box car, with a length of 3 blocks, has a storage space of 4 chests. That's a free chest if you ask me.
  • That's a good point. Unlimited growth would have villages competing with your own bases. Perhaps growth should be limited to the ends of the gravel paths they spawn with? That would still have enough room for more villagers.

Feel free to help out my dragon! Keep views to a minimum please!
Posted Image

#6

ChadGarion25
  • Location: West Coast, USA
  • Minecraft: ChadGarion25

Posted 21 June 2012 - 04:38 AM

This can't be added to the game. Minecart tracks are not equivalent to Train tracks in real life. So you can't feasibly expect a Train engine to use minecart tracks in the game and have it look or function in a logical or plausible manner. So your idea really has nothing in common with existing mechanics; you would have to invent an entirely new system to govern how it would function properly.  Mojang has already stated interest in improving the powered minecart to be more useful, I don't think this is the direction they had in mind to take it.

No support; too complicated, doesn't really have anything to do with existing minecart mechanics, so there is no real feasible way to add it nicely to the game.

#7

YayForMinecraft

Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:32 AM

Why don't we just make powered minecarts faster?
I haven't even bought MineCraft, I don't have the money...

#8

starlinvf
    starlinvf

    Glowstone Miner

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:51 AM

All thats required from a powered minecart to accomplish the objectives above is

- Variable or increased speed (using 3 slots/timers for fuel, and stacking the total speed for each slot)
- Minecart linking.  2 adjacent minecarts will now naturally attract to each other with a magnet like behavior.  External forces exerted on one cart can then be replicated to connected carts.

#9

Oventoaster

Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:07 PM

View PostChadGarion25, on 21 June 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

This can't be added to the game. Minecart tracks are not equivalent to Train tracks in real life. So you can't feasibly expect a Train engine to use minecart tracks in the game and have it look or function in a logical or plausible manner. So your idea really has nothing in common with existing mechanics; you would have to invent an entirely new system to govern how it would function properly.  Mojang has already stated interest in improving the powered minecart to be more useful, I don't think this is the direction they had in mind to take it.

No support; too complicated, doesn't really have anything to do with existing minecart mechanics, so there is no real feasible way to add it nicely to the game.

See the quote on "Graceful Track" in the OP. This covers the steam engine's inability to function on normal Minecart Tracks.

Additionally, the most complicated part of the suggestion is the gearbox GUI, which is simply a stick-shifter with a coal slot. The rest is simply acquiring the resources and assembly, just like any other item you craft.

View PostYayForMinecraft, on 21 June 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

Why don't we just make powered minecarts faster?

Mojang would probably cap it at 6-8 blocks per second, which can still be nullified by sprinting. This train will have a max speed of 12.

View Poststarlinvf, on 21 June 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

All thats required from a powered minecart to accomplish the objectives above is

- Variable or increased speed (using 3 slots/timers for fuel, and stacking the total speed for each slot)
- Minecart linking.  2 adjacent minecarts will now naturally attract to each other with a magnet like behavior.  External forces exerted on one cart can then be replicated to connected carts.

As said above, there would probably be a cap on the speed. The steam engine would move faster.

Additionally, Powered Minecarts currently have difficulty moving even one minecart. That limit would probably be increased to 5, but Steam Engines would be able to pull 30. The end result is a large haul of items for trading with villages to amass wealth quickly. A worthy investment, to say the least.
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Posted Image

#10

LordCreeperThe3rd
  • Location: Placing TNT in Herobrine's toliet.
  • Minecraft: creeperbait123

Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:15 PM

Support, I hate having to use primitive technogly and stay Medevial.  What's the fun in that?  Have you no imagination?

#11

Neospector
  • Location: The Temple of Rhinne, Goddess and Transcendent of Time
  • Minecraft: Neospector

Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostOventoaster, on 21 June 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

-snip-
8 meters (blocks) per second is the same as a powered rail. Capping it at 8 would be plenty fast and would not be slower than sprinting (sprinting is about 5.6 meters per second).

View Postsurvivedcreeperexpolsion, on 21 June 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Support, I hate having to use primitive technogly and stay Medevial.  What's the fun in that?  Have you no imagination?
Minecraft is pure imagination, in case you hadn't noticed. Perhaps you've overlooked the CPUs, Text Displays, huge models of various objects, and digital diamonds. Posted Image
Just because we aren't working with trains, rockets, machine guns, and other modern objects doesn't mean we have no imagination.

Badgerz said:

You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.

Catelite said:

Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Posted Image

#12

Oventoaster

Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:30 PM

View PostNeospector, on 21 June 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

-snip-

Huh, I thought sprinting was double walking speed (checked the wiki, you are right).

Also, we are talking about "classic" Wild West trains, not modern ones like the F and GP Series diesel trains. Those wouldn't fit.
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#13

Neospector
  • Location: The Temple of Rhinne, Goddess and Transcendent of Time
  • Minecraft: Neospector

Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:48 PM

View PostOventoaster, on 21 June 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

Also, we are talking about "classic" Wild West trains, not modern ones like the F and GP Series diesel trains. Those wouldn't fit.
It's not a question of modern vs medieval, Minecraft has no time period. It's a question of theme; are giant trains looking like what you described going to look good in the game and work with the portals, redstone, mining, and building with blocks? Definitely not.

Badgerz said:

You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.

Catelite said:

Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Posted Image

#14

Rabidbadger

Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:27 PM

View PostRabidbadger, on 21 June 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Notch gave us the Nether as a fast transport zone. Travelling in the Nether is eight times faster, meaning that you can reach a speed of approximately sixteen times player walking speed by using railways through it. That's 68.8 metres a second, or 4,128 metres per minute.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Faster travel has already been added. You can go at ridiculous speeds already using the Nether. All of this industrial stuff just screams out to me that it should be in a mod, not Vanilla.
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View PostDumbum2240.1, on 02 August 2011 - 09:37 AM, said:

And yeah, I'm really not sure what this mob is. I'm thinking with an open mind, and all I can think of is a sex mad robot who spawns at Christmas.

#15

PatDay
    PatDay

    Diamond Miner

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:45 PM

Personally, I would rather the trains already in MC get upgraded.

All trains need:
1) Go faster
2) Auto-connect carts

That would be enough for me.

#16

Neospector
  • Location: The Temple of Rhinne, Goddess and Transcendent of Time
  • Minecraft: Neospector

Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:52 PM

View PostPatDay, on 21 June 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

2) Auto-connect carts
I don't agree with this, because a lot of things involving minecarts that I build have the carts run into each other, but they aren't supposed to link. If they are to link at all, it should be manual.

Badgerz said:

You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.

Catelite said:

Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Posted Image

#17

PatDay
    PatDay

    Diamond Miner

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  • Location: FL

Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:01 PM

View PostNeospector, on 21 June 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

I don't agree with this, because a lot of things involving minecarts that I build have the carts run into each other, but they aren't supposed to link. If they are to link at all, it should be manual.

Fair enough, replace auto-connect with easy connect.

#18

Oventoaster

Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:39 PM

View PostNeospector, on 21 June 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

It's not a question of modern vs medieval, Minecraft has no time period. It's a question of theme; are giant trains looking like what you described going to look good in the game and work with the portals, redstone, mining, and building with blocks? Definitely not.

1x4x2 for a train is giant to you? The total size is only 4 players standing next to each other. These trains are quite small...

Unless your thinking of the 4-8-8-4 Big Boy. That's a big train.

View PostNeospector, on 21 June 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

I don't agree with this, because a lot of things involving minecarts that I build have the carts run into each other, but they aren't supposed to link. If they are to link at all, it should be manual.

Exactly like my suggestion for connecting the carts with string as said in the OP.

View PostRabidbadger, on 21 June 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

I have said it before and I will say it again. Faster travel has already been added. You can go at ridiculous speeds already using the Nether. All of this industrial stuff just screams out to me that it should be in a mod, not Vanilla.

Now lets set up a train line - moving at 12 blocks per second - in the Nether. Each block in the Nether is 8 blocks in the overworld, so that's a whopping 96 blocks per second as opposed to 64 blocks per second on a Minecart system. See how any faster travel will benefit the Nether too?
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#19

CarlousXzan
  • Location: Cambridge, England

Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:44 PM

Nice idea but would server better as a mod rather than a feature of the game.

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#20

willzee007

Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:50 PM

i don't like this idea for vanilla at all, but maybe as a mod