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The "survival" part of the game is bad on a fundamental level.

rant survival mode this is not about creative

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#1

Insurrection

Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:54 PM

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I'm sure you've seen quite a few people mention that MC is crap. Maybe they've listed reasons why, maybe they haven't- but outside the MC community, there's a lot of hate towards this game. Specifically, the "main" game mode, survival. Why? Well, that's what this is for- to list precisely why this game is bad. More than just complaining, I'll list (happily) how it can (and probably should) be done better.


As a preface, if you're going to just post "well if u dont like it, dont play it!" or "they work hard on it! why dont U make ur OWN game and see how easy it is!!!", do yourself a favor and don't. For one, I know how hard it is to make a game. Especially one with as much potential as MC. That's what frustrates me- it has so much potential and work put into it, and had a lot going for it early on, but somewhere around alpha it just lost its focus. Anyway...


1a: The reliance on the wiki/community.




Survival mode relies HEAVILY on the wiki to know what to do. Short of a few easy-to-understand concepts (blocks break, right clicking places them, etc), you pretty much don't know what to do without loads of trial and error. Or rather, without the wiki/community videos. This is unacceptable.


It's ok for a game like Sonic the Hedgehog or Mario to not have a tutorial- they're generally easy to play games, and their basic mechanics are introduced within the first stage of their game. Past that, you typically don't need to know much more than moving and jumping. However, Minecraft relies heavily on the user knowing the recipe's for virtually everything- it also relies on them knowing a lot of things like what a lot of the items even do. Nether Warts, Eye of Ender, etc... they're all items you only know the purpose of because of the wiki or videos that highlight updates.


Now, I'm sure one of you will raise their hand and proclaim "But I didn't even USE the wiki! I learnt it ALLL by myself! Check and MATE!". Good for you- you're an exception. The fact is, most people use the wiki or youtube videos to understand what the hell to actually do in this game (again, for survival- creative is a moot point to this rant).


Again, this is unacceptable for any kind of game with complex mechanics. There's no books you can find through the game, no NPC's you can ask for help from, no tips you generally get... nothing. You have to either figure out through mindless trial and error, or consult the wiki. Ugh.


To explain why this is particularly crappy, it's been like this since this game was created. It was acceptable in indev, and even in alpha. But then beta came around... still no form of tutorial or teaching methods. And then 1.0 came out. STILL NOTHING. Sigh.


1b: How to fix it.




Give the player a book straight in their inventory. Something like a "recipe book", where you can place items in your inventory, and see what possible things you can make from it would be nice (similar to Terraria's guide).


This alone would solve a lot of problems honestly, but some more effort towards this would be nice. It doesn't need to be a straight up "Hello, and welcome to minecraft!" tutorial- I can see why that'd be dumb. But there's NO effort to even make it a sort of "Here is how it works, now you try" tutorial like a lot of classic games used to do.


What MC currently feels like is one of those random old NES games that had a lot of weird mechanics, and you needed to consult the manual on how to do basically anything. Actually, it's almost exactly like that. There's a reason games are either simple, have some form of a tutorial/teaching stage, or are terrible.


2a: The difficulty.




Difficulty in the current game is... silly. It's a step backwards in what difficulty should be. Instead of changing game mechanics a bit to actually enhance difficulty, it just artificially enhances difficulty by increasing/decreasing mob health and damage. This is silly, and frankly, lazy.


What's worse, is that you can change difficulty at any point of the game- this makes the entire idea moot. Yes, there are games that do this- that doesn't mean they're doing it right. I mean, why fight through a stronghold when you can set difficulty to peaceful? Oh, because it "gives you the option to"? No. It's a game about survival. Why give me options like this where I can make the journey easier? It's like giving a 12 year old kid the option to cheat in a math test, then hope they don't.


Now, allowing players to change difficulty upon starting a world is fine. It's changing it mid-game that is full-on stupid. Of course, this hasn't been changed since difficulty was even introduced- flat out stupid, lazy game design.


2b: How to fix it.

-Make health and mob damage the same across all difficulty levels.

-Remove the ability to change difficulty modes mid-game.

-Do more things like the "zombies can break down doors in hard". THIS actually makes for difficulty- mob intelligence. Preferably, make zombies able to break down doors in normal.

-Add more mechanics that are changed via difficulty.

-Make normal harder than the current game, and hard truly difficult. Easy should be about as easy as it currently is (which is actually very easy).

-Give mobs a lot more abilities. Zombies that can turn villagers into zombies, make zombies not de-spawn in hard, allow spiders to hang upside down, etc. Then adjust whether these abilities work or not depending on game-mode.




These types of things are acceptable. Bloated mobs that can kill you easier are not.



3a: The mobs.




Similar to the above bit about difficulty, but it's a problem in of itself. Mobs are not hard. They're just a nuisance. The most difficult time I've had with mobs is when I have 2 creepers closing in on me with a skeleton nearby, and I'm stuck in an abandoned mineshaft. Even then, I got out of it almost unscathed.


The thing is, they could still be much better- but right now, they're nothing more than- again- a nusiance. They spawn a distance that's further than their sight range, and they despawn after a short enough distance, too. Also, all of them are insanely easy to escape. The hardest mob to escape is Endermen, and even then all you need to do is go into a proper shelter and you're fine. Or just... hit them until they die, like all the other mobs. All the rest are insanely easy to escape, and even coming face-to-face with them is easy.


The only time they can kill you is if you're in an insanely inconvenient place (above lava, etc), and by some cosmic chance the worst possible thing happens. Even then, it's due to YOU messing up- not the mobs being difficult. For a gamemode that's supposed to be about survival- for a gamemode that the community pegs as "OMG SO SCARY AND DIFFICULT"- it's really not that hard. At all.


Also, mobs always spawning anywhere during the night is- again- not hard. It's just annoying, and kills the ambiance and feel of the game outright. Anyone who says "omg but if they didn't spawn during the night it'd be 2 EASY" is an idiot. It's forced difficulty. Imagine if, during Half Life, headcrabs were just everywhere. And they kept spawning. All the time. But all you needed to do to keep them away was continually swing your crowbar. That's not difficulty, it's annoying.


Now, the Nether I will admit is pretty well done- it's got tension. Zombie pigmen don't attack you unless you attack them, which adds a layer of tension just right there ("oh god ffff don't hit them don't hit them"). Ghasts are a threat, but not an annoying one. The ability to bounce back their fireballs makes them feel like- *gasp*- a video game challenge. Instead of a mindless set of blocks to walk into your sword solely to annoy you. Blazes and Magma cubes are "eh", but they're not bad, either. They add a little bit to the ambiance of the Nether, and that it's not all safe. So, kudos to Mojang for that.


I'd also like to say that there really isn't much mob variety- sure, each mob should have a purpose (rather than just being there because they can be), but there are tons of uses you can find for new mobs. There's only 5 regular mobs in the overworld (Creeper, Spider, Zombie, Skeleton, Enderman). The rest are either variations of existing mobs, a (terrible) boss, in the nether, or very rarely spawned to the point that they're not considered a threat anyway (silverfish and slimes).


3b: How to fix it.

-Give mobs a longer sight range. WAY longer. If I can see them, they should be able to see me. Like, 128 blocks long. Automatically, they become more of a threat with this- besides, it's just a stupid generic MMORPG thing where mobs only see you within X distance. KILLS the idea of them being threatening.

-Make zombies- at the very least- faster. They're such a joke right now. And I don't mean on "hard" difficulty, I mean for ALL difficulty modes. They should be as fast as the player.

-Make creepers only spawn underground. Having them spawn aboveground is just... it kills tension, and ruins the image they have of "scary" even more. They're only remotely threatening underground- keep them this way.

-Make it so mobs only spawn in a light level of 4 or less, rather than 8 or less. This makes it so they only spawn in dense areas of forests, jungles, or underground. I've personally played around with this myself, and holy crap it feels great.

-Make spiders able to crawl upside down, and also make them actually change their image when they're doing this (as well as crawling upside down). Seriously, they look upright when crawling up walls... that's just silly, and lazy.

-Put in those planned mob prefixes- as in, mobs that randomly spawn with special effects/abilities. Things like being faster, able to light the player on fire, able to jump higher, able to be 3x as big, able to bounce projectiles back at the player, etc... there's tons of ideas for this. They shouldn't spawn ALL the time, but maybe a 1-in-10 chance to have a prefix (where the prefix itself is random). In of itself, this makes the world more dynamic.

-Make more biome-specific mobs. As in, enemy mobs- not more pets. They should have a use, but then it's not like zombies have any real use. I'd suggest that new mobs be able to drop items used for new potions, or something. This'd make biomes waaay nicer to go to, and is in line with the next section.

-Make slimes spawn above-ground, holy crap. They're important mobs, but tediously searching for them underground is INSANELY ANNOYING. I'd suggest making them spawn in swamps- the "only spawns in certain chunks" thing is alright, but still. They should spawn aboveground.

-Make new mobs drop items useful for the general game- again, ingredients for unique potions is a fantastic idea. Or just... other things that are truly unique (instead of more variations of the same crap).




In general, there's just so many things you can do with mobs to make them feel better within the flow of the game. But adding just those things alone would make mobs way more interesting, threatening, and actually add to the world rather than simply being there. And that's what they need to be- not just a mindlessly spawned thing here and there that you sorta gotta pay attention to and then LOL SSS CREEPER BOOM (: because no that's not scary. It's annoying.



4a: The biomes and terrain in general.




The terrain in MC is... heavily lacking. It used to be alright, then it was cool, then it was crazy, and now it's just boring. The main reason for this is that all biomes feel the same, just with a different mustache. Deserts are just plains with sand and cactus. Taigas are just forests with snow. Sure, they look different, but outside of a few minor "features", biomes all feel the same. The only ones that really feel different are ocean and jungle. Even then, they don't offer anything different- there's no real reason to go to them (aside from maybe "lol cats! (:" in jungles).


Now, I'm not one of those who is all "WAHH GO BACK TO ALPHA GENERATION". I'm ok with the current system- that's not the problem. The problem is that the current system is HEAVILY under-uitilized, and could be greatly improved. The idea of technical biomes that use all the same things as another biome (IE: desert hills, etc) is pretty good, but again, is under-uitilized.


There's also the fact that generation is capped to 127 still, despite there being an increased world height. The official explanation? "We wanted to give players breathing room". Holy crap, are you serious? You're going to do something we've been asking for over the past several years, then not use it? AGHDSGHSD.


And of course, there's no point to different biomes. Sure, in the upcoming update, deserts and jungles will have temples- neat. But they don't offer anything ultra special- they just make diamonds easier to get. Uugh... you might as well let players get diamonds just by combining dirt. Besides, why go to a jungle then when I can go to a desert? Or vice-versa. This crap alone makes me really feel that Mojang doesn't get what it means to make a good game, and instead are content with pandering to idiots who lap up anything they give them.


4b: How to fix it.

-Have more unique, biome-only rewards. Things like ingredients for new potions- USEFUL new potions. Hell, lilypads could be used for a "Potion of Water Walking". Things like this make biomes useful to travel to.

-As per above, more biome-specific mobs. Not "SssSand creeper (:", or mummies that are zombies with a different skin, or something equally dumb. I mean a mob that's really different from the other ones still, and give unique item drops. Snakes that are the size of silverfish, but can poison you, and only attack you if you get pretty close to them. Sharks that only spawn in ocean biomes, and drop shark fins used for... some water-based potion. Things like this. I could go on for hours, but I'd rather make a mod to show how it can be done.

-Make trees taller. Seriously, they look like crap. I've already doubled the height of oaks and birch, and they look great (like they always should have looked). Pine/spruce look alright, though.

-Make use of the extra space you now have. This just infuriates me. First off, make the earth deeper- make it ~90 blocks instead of 63. This means, yes, making everything generate higher to match this, but this is fine. Then, make mountains (extreme hills) generate higher than just 64 blocks from the sea level (127 - 63 = 64). With the average sea level of 90, the average mountain should go up to ~200 (110 rather than 64 blocks from sea level). This still gives 56 blocks for players to build on top of the mountains. This is plenty to build a multi-level mansion with roof space. From the peak.

-Make a proper pre-requisite system to biome generation- right now, it's pretty much entirely random where biomes spawn, so you have taigas next to deserts, etc. They should use a flowchart of sorts- getting which biome is there, then deciding which biome(s) to generate around it depending on whether or not it would be appropriate to place it there. This wouldn't be too hard to implement, and would make things look a lot better. This also relies upon more biomes being put in (for more "transitional" biomes, like savanna between plains and desert), but that's kind've a given.

-As mentioned above, more biomes. Not just for the sake of having them, of course- but by now, that should also be a given. Things like Savanna's, Bogs, Marshlands, Hills (Just hills, not extreme hills... which should be renamed to mountains, anyway), Badlands, and plenty more. All of which have some use, and all of which should look different.

-Variations of existing biomes. Things like spruce forests (not just in taiga's anymore), rocky mountains (all stone instead of grass/dirt), forest mountain (think eastern United States) and so on would be nice. Variations of stone types would help, as well- brown, dark grey, etc. Similar to the variations in wood.

-Make plains more flat. Right now, they're basically hills, and that's a little silly. Make a hills biome, splitting it from the plains biome.

-Deserts shouldn't have pools of water in them. This is just stupid. Players should have to use desert wells for water here.

-Make dirt/grass slabs (again), then use it for generating hills. It's silly that I have to jump up just to go over a hill. Just have the slabs generate every other block on hills, or something, and it'd work fine.




In general, the terrain should always feel enjoyable to be around. It also shouldn't feel so... "squished" as it does. Playing vanilla a lot, and I always feel like I'm tightly squished into certain areas. I just don't get this feeling of "endless landscape".


5a: Lack of equipment choice.




I really hate this. There hasn't been a real new weapon since swords. That's... I just don't even have a word for this. Disappointed? Something like this. The last update to combat was Beta 1.8. That's... unbelievable. In the course of this game, only one weapon? COME ON.


Yes, I know- pistons, dispensers, blah blah. Those are mechanical things, not direct weapons. I'm talking spears, axes, maces, flails- anything. There's so many ideas, so many ways to go about it- but nope. Just... nothing. Just swords. UUGH.


There isn't even an excuse for this. It wouldn't make things "too complicated". ALL it does is give the player more of a choice of weaponry. And choice is good. Not "this is harder 2 get than sord, but its STRONGAR" choice, I mean actually balanced choice.


This can all be applied to equipment, too- there's just... the armor. Why use leather when I can use iron? Or why use iron when I can use diamond? They should come in different weight values, where heavier armor gives more defense, but reduces your abilities the more of it you have (more on this later on).


And of course, the materials- why use leather or wood? Or hell, why use stone? There's absolutely no point to, since after a very short period of time, iron becomes so readily available. Diamond is understandable to not want to use, but it's still better than iron in every single way.


There's also no more stats than just... damage. Sure, enchantments blahblah... but no, I mean actual stats for weapons. Not "str, dex, int" kind of stats. SENSIBLE things- knockback, attack speed, etc. Hell, those two alone would be enough for good variation in weapons. You could have a weapon with high knockback, but low damage and speed. Or one with high speed, but low knockback and damage. SO MANY OPTIONS. YET NONE OF THEM EXPLORED.


And I think this is what it comes down to, when people rant about MC- there's so many things that could be done. SO. MANY. So many GOOD THINGS. Yet they choose to add... cats. And... cocoa plants. And... more decorative blocks.


Don't get me wrong, those are ok things.  It's that they choose them over much better things. And it's been like this for several years now. This is infuriating, knowing they COULD add things that would objectively add more to gameplay, but they don't. And at this point, it feels like they won't.


Or no, that's not entirely accurate- it feels like when they do add things they should, they do a half-assed job, take months to add it in, then call it a day and never re-visit it. If they added new equipment, they'd add one new weapon, and it'd be the same as a sword but have a different secondary. Or, it'd be harder to get than swords, and better in every way. And that'd be it. That's all we'd get.


FUCK.


5b: How to fix it.

-Add in "Knockback" as a weapon stat. At the same time, add "knockback resistance" to armor, with heavier armor having more knockback resistance. Mobs should also have varying levels of knockback resistance- skeletons could be easy to knock back, but zombies would be harder. Generally speaking, it should be harder to knock things back than it is right now.

-Add an attack speed stat for weapons. The fastest should be the default attack speed (which is 3 per second IIRC). Pretty straightforward-

-Make new weapons. Battle axes, maces, spears, crossbows- all of that, and preferably more. Give them unique levels of of those 3 stats (Damage, knockback, and attack speed). Then, give them unique secondary abilities (right click)- spears can be thrown, maces can stun, and so on. Maybe even make different weapons have another ability- spears could hit 1 block farther than regular weapons, etc. Tons of ideas, and as long as they're balanced, they'd be fantastic.

-Increase default sprint speed. Then, divide armor into different "armor classes", or assign them different "weight" levels. The better the armor, the heavier it is- heavy armor would make you sprint slower, and after a certain point, you'd be unable to sprint with really heavy armor. It should also disable certain other abilities (again, more on this later) after certain points. This would make going without armor fairly viable- just the same, going in full armor would mean you'd not be knocked back nearly as easily (and plus still be a juggernaut).

-Add more material types. Not just "dragon ore! better than diamond, but is really hard to get (:", because mods that do this are stupid as hell. I mean things within the bounds of iron or diamond- with unique uses. A "fire" ore that makes your weapons able to set things on fire with a set chance. Or tools that allows you to cook ores/etc you mine with a certain chance. And the armor can reduce fire damage, and with the full set can make you immune to it. But it'd be slightly worse than iron- better than stone/leather, but still a bit worse than iron. And that's just one new material type- there's so many more ideas. GOOD ideas, not just ideas that add more to "hurr tier 6 elite ultra dragon equipment!1".




Right now, equipment isn't even really a thing- you just have sword, bow, and armor. Diamond is the best for all of those. Hurrrr HAV FUN. No, there needs to be variation. Both in the weapon types, and in material.


6a: Lack of player abilities




You can jump. Yay! You can "sneak". Yay! You can sprint. Yay!


And that's it.


SIGH


6b: How to fix it.




Add Smart Moving. This is all this needs. Literally, that's it. Smart moving is great on so many levels. The armor thing I mentioned earlier- about how heavier armor could disable certain abilities- would be applied here. IE: Wearing heavy armor wouldn't let you "charge jump".


Also, sprinting shouldn't require double tapping, because that's stupid. Smart moving adds a sprint key anyway, so... yeah. It should be, by default:


WASD: Movement.

Shift: Sprint.

Ctrl: Sneak.

E: Grab.

Q: Inventory.

Z: Drop item.


I've been using this layout, and it's basically perfect. It just feels great. I don't care if people need to re-adjust to it- the types of people who would complain about new controls aren't the types of people you should listen to anyway. Speaking of...


7a: The community is terrible.




Anyone who has the slightest amount of intelligence would realize that the MC community is absolute rubbish. They complain any time something new is added, yet at the same time, are ok with anything Mojang adds. You get an outcry of mindless complaints, and an outcry of mindless support against said complaints. There's little to no intelligence to be found here. No real discussion, just "YA I LIKE THAT" "NO DATS STUPID". No objective discussion, little to no intelligence criticism of ideas. And it's depressing. It doesn't need to be this way- it can be stopped.


But it isn't. Instead, Mojang laps it up. Fucking minecraftchick got hired onto Mojang. They feed the utterly stupid crap they fell into, and continue to make money off of it. It feels like they would sooner make a Minecraft spinoff game where you play as a creeper, filled with stupid "now u ARE the creeper! SsSSSs (:" nonsense and idiotic fan pandering that makes them millions of dollars, than they would actually add any good content that might get complained about.


This is what angers people the most. Redditors, "bronies", and so on are more listened to than any form of objective criticism. Complete cesspools are more of a priority to consider than anyone with the slightest amount of intelligence.


Why? Because they're not hard to deal with. Mojang can make "super TNT" that is just a bigger TNT explosion, and people would lap it up. Oh sure, some people would complain, but they wouldn't have to deal with people railing on them for making bad decisions. Because it's what people want. It's the kind of mindless crap you expect a 12 year old to suggest, and then it gets put in. It's why we have wolves, cats, "the end", and so on. Pretty much all of the terrible choices of gameplay- and lack of initiative to fix anything- can be traced back to Mojang's consistent fan-pandering. Because the people they pander to let them be lazy as hell. They're the kinds of people who gladly pay hundreds of dollars to go to an ill-planned out "convention" all about an unfinished game.


They're the kinds of people who, when they add something that's remotely challenging, complain about it ENDLESSLY until it's made easier, yet somehow are ok with artificially difficult bullshit like the "Ender Dragon". Or when anything is added that goes contrary to what they're used to, they whine and cry and throw a temper tantrum. And not in the "This is absolute CRAP, and here is why..." way, in a well thought out forum post. No, they just WHINE. They don't ever give any GOOD reasons, they just whine, cry, and complain. Because they're used to Mojang never changing the things they're used to.


It's like a kid who's constantly given candy his whole life- and after 10 years, the parents realize he's an obese, unhealthy mess. Finally, the parents take away the candy, and then they IMMEDIATELY scream and cry. Endlessly. Until the parents give him back his candy.


AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT MOJANG DOES NOW. They give the fat kid their candy back. And it's utterly infuriating. They won't listen to the intellectual, well-thought out posts given by people who insult them for being so fucking lazy, because it might hurt their feelings. No, they listen to to types of people who have goddamn ponies from a TV show directed at little girls, and people who use years old "memes" that have been beaten to death as their avatars with SOME mention of the fucking creeper in their signature.


FFFFFFFFFFFFUCK.


7b: How to fix it.




STOP. JUST STOP. Stop the pandering. Start changing things that need to be changed. Steve looks like SHIT. There, I said it. He's the fucking TEST MODEL you used when the game first started! I DON'T CARE IF IT'S "ICONIC". I don't care if there are millions of youtube videos with steve's shitty looking head for the thumbnail. If you- the community, Mojang, Zeus, whoever the fuck is reading this- ever want this game to change for the better, REALIZE THAT THIS KIND OF THING NEEDS TO CHANGE. If this keeps up, we will never be able to have Minecraft reach its potential.


Start being properly criticial of yourself- and start taking CRITICISM. Yes, from places like /v/- ESPECIALLY places like /v/. No, not the stupid posts- the ones that are well thought out and make fucking sense. Stop pandering to the "MINECRAFT IS ABOUT BUILDING!!1" crowd, too- they have creative mode, for fuck's sake! STOP SHITTING UP SURVIVAL MODE BECAUSE OF THIS CROWD.


If it means you need to alienate the stupid people who would complain about things like removing the ability to swim up falling water, do so. ABSOLUTELY do so. They'll get over it, grow up, and realize how much better the game would be. Or they'll leave.


Yes, people might leave. OH FUCKING NO. It's not like this game is subscription based anyway, you've already made your money. But it comes down to this- who do you want to play your game? A million stupid people who would prefer instant gratification and have NO sense of what makes a proper game and would stop playing once they grow up, or 250,000 people who genuinely enjoy a good video game? And it's not a matter of "making a lot of money vs making no money", because Minecraft is already making MILLIONS just by EXISTING. You don't need to "market" anymore or anything- people will keep buying it.


If anything, at this rate, it will turn into World of Warcraft- where the continuous pandering will alienate your core userbase, and replace it with 12 year olds who have no fucking sense of what's good. While it'll EXPLODE for a few years, it won't have NEAR the staying power it will- and eventually, something better will come out to dethrone it. Because there CAN be something better. BECAUSE YOU NEVER LET THE GAME REACH ITS FULL POTENTIAL.


And if you think "lol, mojang wont read this... you're wasting your time", the sad thing is, you're right. They WON'T. They won't listen to why their precious CREEPER SSSSsSSS DIAMONDS STEVE (: isn't liked by the rest of the gaming community. They'll only listen to mindless compliments and kudos by people who have no idea what they're talking about.


I can go on for hours- HOURS- on what they could add. I've already given plenty of suggestions- suggestions that many intelligent people agree with on some degree or another. The thing is, I don't need to. If this last bit- about not pandering to idiots- were to be considered and executed, everything else would fall into place. But at this point, I realize it's futile. The ideas won't get spread around. Even if my mod that I'm working on gets to be insanely successful, it won't be implemented. If it did, it'd get stripped of any and all good content, and put in as a zombified, watered-down, buggy mess. Because they would rather listen to FUCKING REDDIT than any REMOTELY well thought-out idea that would upset 12 year old children with ADHD.




And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the core problem of what's wrong with Minecraft.



----


AFTER-NOTES:


Some FAT's (Frequently Answered Things). If you want more detailed responses, read through the thread instead of being an ignorant shithead.


"Use mods."

This rant/discussion is not about mods. This is about the vanilla game. More specifically, the vanilla survival mode, and how it could be better. If you want a more detailed answer, read through the thread.


"Minecraft is not an RPG."

The changes I'm proposing are not intended to turn it into an RPG in the slightest. If anything, they would turn it from a boring, tedious, grindy game (a signature of RPG's) into a unique, dynamic, and enjoyable game.


"Players should be given the choice to play the game exactly as they want to."

If you don't want to die, go play creative mode. If you want to build, go to creative mode. The option to "play as you want to" is there- why have a magical button that can make the game easier for you with a simple click? It's not necessary.


"The game is about building, not fighting."

Creative mode is for building. Just because survival mode lacks content doesn't mean it's "not about fighting". That just means it lacks content.


"The game is fine."

It isn't. If it were "fine", they wouldn't still be adding updates and fixing things. Even if it WERE fine, why can't it be better?


"Your changes are crap. They wouldn't make the game better."

Suggest better ones then! I highly encourage this.



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#2

larryaphillips

Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:11 PM

It doesn't take that long to Google 'Minecraft forums' you are ranting for no reason.

#3

awesomeness04

Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:12 PM

Nice book, but I personally don't care.

#4

~Shadow~
    ~Shadow~

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:12 PM

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Sir, I read all of that and have to agree with you in every single god damn way.
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#5

Lilplayah101
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:25 PM

What, exactly, type of response want from the community?

#6

2samspan
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  • Minecraft: 2samspan

Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:31 PM

You were quite a jerk a bit in, but your right. Some things they are getting right. More generated structures, player interaction. Others they are messing up. Cats, enchanting. While I feel you should have taken a break to calm down, I agree with most of your ideas. But a suggestion, try adding mods like extra biomes xl, battle gear, etc together and see how it works out

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#7

Victoria_
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:40 PM

View PostInsurrection, on 06 June 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Stop the pandering. Start changing things that need to be changed.

This is the part where instead of simply thinking "Hmmm... not sure I agree there, but yes that part is a good idea." I changed to "Oh another one of these..."

Why do some people always think their ideas are the ones that need to be implemented? How are they suddenly the oracle on what the game needs and everyone else is clearly just being pandered too as their ideas are clearly not worth including at all? Personal opinions and preferences are just that, personal. Just because you like trees taller does not mean that it is an awful game design that they are not, personally I find taller trees a little bit irritating and not as pleasant. Does that make me wrong, is the fact the game has shorter trees simply pandering to my silly whims? I really don't think so.

A lot of the ideas you presented are good. Suggesting that all your opinions are the best not as well thought through.

#8

kirbypwnage
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:40 PM

I enjoy Minecraft survival more than creative.

#9

MarshallRA
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 09:56 PM

I agree with this almost 100%. Well thought out post, if only there were more like you in the minecraft community.
Try my map named Survival Earth http://adf.ly/4APq1  VVVV   My custom built rig:
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#10

R3creat3
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:00 PM

Thanks for pointing this out. Rep up for you.

PS: If your going to post a hate post read the whole thing.
PSS: Were trying to make the game better, you players just sit on your arses with no respect in trying to make it better. Allot of hard work is put into making this a great game whether people like or nor they don't. keep your opinions to yourself.
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#11

Ekir
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:06 PM

I can see where you are coming from with all of these points, and I agree that a lot of them would be pretty cool to have. The exception being the first one. To me, the thought of going in blind makes it really feel like its survival. I think of it like this: If you were dropped in the middle of the woods somewhere and had to survive, could you? Would you know how to make a shelter properly? Make and ax or other weapon? I know that I definitely don't.

As for most of your game changing points, I know its not the answer that you want to hear, but there is in fact, a mod for that. One for a recipe book, added weapons, some that add nearly 100 different ores and minerals, and tons of terrain and biome changers. And I think that it is because of these mods, made by the community, and supported by Mojang (as opposed to some games that discourage the modding of the game), that have allowed Minecraft to live up to its full potential. The game can be completely customized. You can make your game whatever you want it too be. And that's the true beauty of Minecraft to me. That I can have a game completely different than other people and play it MY way.

I'm not trying to shoot down your rant. Thats just my two cents. Whether you take it to heart or not is up to you.

#12

aeroports
  • Location: Edgware, Middlesex. England
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:08 PM

If you don't like it, don't play it. Minecraft isn't a combat game, the hostile mobs just add a bit of edge, they aren't what makes the game interesting.

#13

chadmart

Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM

Here is what I realize that you don't seem to... the game devs are NOT obligated in any way, shape, or form to do ANYTHING else to this game. Most don't. Yet they do. They already have your money, and my money, for both the computer and pocket versions of this game, and nowhere in the purchasing of this game did I read anything that states that they have to continually release updates or improve upon the game in any way. Yet they do. Just in the last two weeks they added a new ore, trading with the villagers, and tripwire/tripwire hooks. Mobs are on their way to being unique and more difficult. Zombies can break down doors where they couldn't before. Trees have so many different materials and shapes. Oak, Birch, Pine, and Jungle, all of which grow differently. Again, this is a game "in-progress" that is constantly evolving when it doesn't have to. But the expansion of this game takes time, and right now they are having to deal with three different platforms (Xbox, PC/Mac, and Pocket,) all with people like you pestering them to add the things that you want them to add.

All I'm saying is that you need to give it time. They are constantly working on this game, and we should be thankful that they are.

That said, I completely agree with you about an in-game manual, and your book idea is great. It would probably be best to have a few "hidden" recipes for each type of material... I don't know like if you get diamond, maybe you have to search out and find the recipe for an enchanting table. They could even add scrolls that you find in dungeons and such that add new recipes to your master book. But maybe they are on that path already, with the addition of writable books. We don't know what their plans are. And many people aren't going to bother scrounging dungeons for scrolls with recipes and such when they have the wiki to refer to, because it isn't going away. They could however nullify the information in the wiki by not allowing you to craft something in game until you have that recipe in your book. That would probably piss a lot of people off though.

#14

voog2
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:29 PM

Wait, what do you want Mojang to do about the community? Kill us all?
-Musician for mods including The Betweenlands and Arcticraft-

#15

j4k3s7a
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:46 PM

1a:The reliance on the wiki/community.

Honestly, I would never ever use the book, if I knew about the wiki. Your 'fix' would just force a player to keep another item in their inventory, and should they die in lava, well, time to restart all over. Also, not having a book at all makes it more fun. Instead of giving everything handed to you with every snapshot, you have to try thing out in game, and look through the community for what the patch notes even mean. I love seeing new snapshots are available, because it is honestly the most fun I have, racing others to find out what the latest items are. A book would absolutely ruin this.

Granted, this would make things easier, I believe it would take away from the mystery that lays in the game, even after playing the game for a year.

2a: The difficulty.

‚ÄčIf you don't like being able to change the difficulty in the middle of a game, there is an extremely simple fix for that: DON'T. I hate when I see people complaining about features that are completely avoidable, but they still complain about it. Some people out there like being able to have a dynamic difficulty, while others don't.

Pretend that you like being able to change the difficulty (ONLY in single player mind you, which is how it currently is), and you suddenly have that ripped away from you, because someone didn't like it. How would you feel? I personally don't even know what difficulty I'm playing on because I don't change it, but I know people who like to change it if they are about to die.

Honestly, tell me this: how does this affect you in any way? Seriously, how does the fact that I can magically make mobs disappear affect you, and why should this be taken away from me when you can just not use it? Not everything is about you, and if you really feel this way, you are just an arrogant jagoff and shouldn't be pleased anyway.

3a: The mobs.

I love the mobs. When I play MINEcraft (not Combat-RPG-Craft), I love the combat physics. Everything is so simple, and I love it. I know how every mob behaves, because there's like one thing they do: they hit you, you take damage. I mean seriously, why do people expect this super intricate combat system in Minecraft? If you want advanced mobs, play a different game. I'm usually not one to say 'dont like it leave', but seriously, you know the physics of Minecraft.

Again, imagine that you like the current combat/mob system (like I do, very much), and suddenly one day you have an entirely different combat system. You would be pissed, gauranteed.

4a: The biomes and terrain in general.

I hear people constantly complaining about this, and for good reason too. This is literally the only thing you have mentioned that I remotely agree with.

That being said, I think you can look forward to the next update, with pyramids and jungle temples.

5a: Lack of equipment choice.

As previously stated, this isn't an RPG game, its the simplistic game that is Minecraft. I can understand that you want a 'better' combat system, so I would advise looking into the massive community of modders. If your desired mod doesn't exist, I'm sure that there is someone out there that would be willing to program it with you.

6a: Lack of player abilities

Again, it's Minecraft, I don't understand why there should be intricate controls, when mining and placing materials is what the game is about

7a: The community is terrible.

Every open community is terrible. If it is free to sign up for, it is terrible because people like that exist. In the age of the internet and anonymity, anyone can be a troll with no consequences. Go to YouTube, go to any forum, look on MinecraftForums. It's all the same.

If you can find a community that is kind and considerate, please notify me, because I seriously don't believe it exists.

#16

kirbypwnage
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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:49 PM

I really only agree with 1a.

#17

Minecraft_Physics

Posted 06 June 2012 - 11:03 PM

1. This was about the only thing I agreed with. Add a recipe book and be done.

2. The difficulty is something of a problem, but due more to the benefits of armor than anything. Going without armor in hard mode makes fighting skeletons a painful experience or using leather other than iron.

3. Changing it so that mobs can see you from 8 chunks away is ridiculous. The processing requirements would be huge as all 79 hostile mobs would be using cpu resources for their AI's. Also, 79 zombies chasing you is more than a threat even at the current difficulty.

4. You haven't played any of the snapshots if you think biomes don't have a purpose. Jungles have cocoa and temples, deserts have temples, deserts and plains spawn villages more often than other biomes, which are useful now that trading has been introduced, oceans contain mushroom biomes, extreme hills contain emerald ore, taiga/snow plains are the only sources of snow... The list of biome specific uses goes on and on.

5. There isn't much selection in equipment true, but minecraft is not an rpg (not even in survival mode). If you enjoy melee, use the sword. If you want range, use the bow. If you need a reason to use gold armor, remeber that gold is more enchantable than any other material in the game. We could add spears, but what would their crafting recipe be? The only logical one makes shovels. To answer your question of why use iron if one has diamond, is simple. Iron is cheaper. Minecraft survival is more about resources than anything in my opinion. I personally use no armor except in the Nether because of resource costs. Besides, no armor makes the game harder.

6. What other abilities do we need. We can jump, we can run, we can tip-toe. What else is there? Climbing? Every face in minecraft is sheer except for vines and ladders which we can climb anyways.

7. The community can improve I agree. Maybe you should set a better example by not cursing. Oh, the "fan-pandering" as you call it is exactly what they're supposed to do. They put in what the community appears to want the most. If the intelligent people are outnumbered, then we're outnumbered. I'd rather Mojang listen to the community than not.

This is why I believe you to be wrong.
Please quote me if you would like a response.
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#18

Insurrection

Posted 06 June 2012 - 11:06 PM

View PostPg13, on 06 June 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

, NO DIS IS STUPED!
MOJANG IS GUD MINECRAFTCHICK HAWT! CHATAP HATER
NO UR STUPID GET OUT BUTTCAKE

View PostFilby, on 06 June 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

I like how you insulted bronies, when they have absolutely NOTHING to do with any of this. You were just being an ass.
Go to any section of these forums, and you'll see at least 3 people using pony-related avatars and whatnot. And they're as obnoxious as one would expect. Yes, I was being an ass, but a necessary ass.

View PostLilplayah101, on 06 June 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

What, exactly, type of response want from the community?
In terms of responses, I'd prefer people to add their own things- things that can be added to this rant, in the form of a discussion. I'd like to see people try to one-up my suggestions, actually- make BETTER suggestions. Not just "mc is fine stop complaining! mojang works HARD ok!" The main point of the rant is also to spread around ideas. Not "lol they should make more mobs!" kind of simplistic ideas, but really look at the game from its core- to understand what could make this game better. I'd say I have a pretty good grasp, and am making a mod to do just this. You likely won't see much of the mod until I've made significant progress, but nonetheless it's being made (so no, I'm not just whining without having looked at the code).

View Post2samspan, on 06 June 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

You were quite a jerk a bit in, but your right. Some things they are getting right. More generated structures, player interaction. Others they are messing up. Cats, enchanting. While I feel you should have taken a break to calm down, I agree with most of your ideas. But a suggestion, try adding mods like extra biomes xl, battle gear, etc together and see how it works out
The things is, I shouldn't need to add mods. Mods should be there for preference- something like additional pets is the type of content I'd expect from a mod. Not things that straight up fix gameplay. Also, mods tend to just add one or two of their respective bits of content- I'd rather a mod that essentially adds to EVERY facet of gameplay (since virtually every facet of gameplay needs fixing, lolol).

View PostVictoria_, on 06 June 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

This is the part where instead of simply thinking "Hmmm... not sure I agree there, but yes that part is a good idea." I changed to "Oh another one of these..."

Why do some people always think their ideas are the ones that need to be implemented? How are they suddenly the oracle on what the game needs and everyone else is clearly just being pandered too as their ideas are clearly not worth including at all?
I didn't object to the piston mod, because it was a nice mod. I didn't object to adding mcregion, because it was better than the old chunk code.

What I DO object to is this virtualy unwillingness to add anything really game-changing without first hyping it all up and making sure the userbase (read: overly vocal 12 year olds) would like it.

I also don't mind if someone adds a really well written idea to the mix of things, and that gets considered. Am I saying MINE is super well written? Nah. But... do I really need to bring up counter-examples of terribly thought out ideas? The ones that get suggested a lot? Or do you truly not read these forums?

View PostVictoria_, on 06 June 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Personal opinions and preferences are just that, personal. Just because you like trees taller does not mean that it is an awful game design that they are not, personally I find taller trees a little bit irritating and not as pleasant. Does that make me wrong, is the fact the game has shorter trees simply pandering to my silly whims? I really don't think so.
There's a difference between personal opinions, and objectively good things. Can you really say that...

Spoiler:
...doesn't look like an actual forest, as compared to the short stumpy trees that are currently in? Especially considering that the trees haven't really looked different since alpha.

Also, I should have stated- taller trees would need to come with trees falling like cacti/reeds. Otherwise, yeah, super annoying.

View PostVictoria_, on 06 June 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

A lot of the ideas you presented are good. Suggesting that all your opinions are the best not as well thought through.
I'm not saying my opinions are the best. I'm saying they're better than what's currently in the game, and I highly encourage people to one-up my suggestions. And then someone one up their suggestions. This is what creativity is all about. Simply saying "no its fine" is... mind bogglingly stubborn, and just ruins the creative process. It's also what Mojang seems to appeal to, and is why I'm frustrated.

View PostEkir, on 06 June 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

To me, the thought of going in blind makes it really feel like its survival. I think of it like this: If you were dropped in the middle of the woods somewhere and had to survive, could you? Would you know how to make a shelter properly? Make and ax or other weapon? I know that I definitely don't.
I'd agree with you if the wiki didn't exist- but it does, sadly ;_;. If crafting was more of a minigame rather than based solely on knowledge, I would 100% be ok with how it is. But sadly, all the recipe's require prior knowledge of what makes what (believe it or not, they don't all immediately make perfect sense- especially if you're unsure of what it is you're supposed to make).


View PostEkir, on 06 June 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

As for most of your game changing points, I know its not the answer that you want to hear, but there is in fact, a mod for that.
Again, I shouldn't need to rely on mods for my game to be better. Especially since a lot of them just add what they add, without really working together to form a coherent gameplay flow. Like yeah, cool, more mobs... but that has nothing to do with all those ores, or all those weapons, or all those new biomes... etc. So that's still a piss-poor excuse for Mojang having a very sub-par vanilla game.

View PostEkir, on 06 June 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

And I think that it is because of these mods, made by the community, and supported by Mojang (as opposed to some games that discourage the modding of the game), that have allowed Minecraft to live up to its full potential.
Don't get me wrong- I like that they're not completely against mods (KOOOTIIIIICKK), but it's annoying that they basically rely on their community to make a good game. And as I just pointed out, the mods don't really make it a better game. It just extends the "oh cool, new stuff!" feel for a bit, but ultimately gets boring quickly.

View PostEkir, on 06 June 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

The game can be completely customized. You can make your game whatever you want it too be. And that's the true beauty of Minecraft to me. That I can have a game completely different than other people and play it MY way.
Yeah, that's cool, but not an argument as to why the vanilla survival game is crap, or why it should still be crap. If you disagree with my suggestions/opinions, that's fine- add your own then, instead of just disagreeing. This is what I want, more than anything.

View Postaeroports, on 06 June 2012 - 10:08 PM, said:

If you don't like it, don't play it. Minecraft isn't a combat game, the hostile mobs just add a bit of edge, they aren't what makes the game interesting.
APOLOGIST ALERT
They wouldn't have a survival mode if it wasn't "a combat game". They wouldn't have swords, bows, a boss, mobs that can kill you, critical hits, or so on if it "wasn't a combat game".

Furthermore, they wouldn't need to separate out creative mode if it "wasn't a combat game".

View Postchadmart, on 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Here is what I realize that you don't seem to... the game devs are NOT obligated in any way, shape, or form to do ANYTHING else to this game.
...
HURRRR
Of course they don't. I'm not saying they have to. I'm saying they should want to, if they ever want their game to be good instead of turn into the next cowwa doody, WoW, and etc.

View Postchadmart, on 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Just in the last two weeks they added a new ore,
which was unnecessary and is only a currency, plus it's just FOR that currency and nothing else

View Postchadmart, on 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

trading with the villagers,
Good idea, but needs a lot of expansion. Expansion we likely won't ever get, because people will adjust to it then never want it to change.

View Postchadmart, on 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

and tripwire/tripwire hooks.
Should've been in a long time ago. Sure, more traps, but more traps isn't what we need for actual gameplay.

View Postchadmart, on 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Mobs are on their way to being unique and more difficult. Zombies can break down doors where they couldn't before.
...in hard mode, where you can change out of it the second you don't want it, even if you choose hard as a difficulty from the start.

View Postchadmart, on 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Trees have so many different materials and shapes. Oak, Birch, Pine, and Jungle, all of which grow differently.
Four. There's four trees. And there is literally no difference between them aside from different wood colors (which should have been differently textured, and then planks should have been paintable). That's not very much, and they still don't add to gameplay.

View Postchadmart, on 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Again, this is a game "in-progress" that is constantly evolving when it doesn't have to.
It's been "evolving" for years now, yet it's been rather stagnant in terms of actual gameplay progress. It's just been a lot of miscellaneous crap added here and there. And then "the end"... uuuugh.

View Postchadmart, on 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

But the expansion of this game takes time, and right now they are having to deal with three different platforms (Xbox, PC/Mac, and Pocket,) all with people like you pestering them to add the things that you want them to add.
POOR MOJANG, THEY NEED TO WORK ON A GAME THAT THEY'VE PROMISED TO WORK ON. ESPECIALLY ON TWO PLATFORMS THAT THE GAME SHOULDN'T BE ON ANYWAY.

Christ, you are the epitome of an apologist. It's funny that you proclaim my opinion doesn't mean anything, when you've basically just done the equivalent of saying "Hey, look at me! My opinion doesn't matter!"

View Postchadmart, on 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

All I'm saying is that you need to give it time. They are constantly working on this game, and we should be thankful that they are.
I'm not going to sit by quietly while they add stupid crap to the game that doesn't help with making it better. I want this game to be good. And yes, my opinion on what would make the game better is better than yours. Why? Because you haven't offered any counter-opinions. All you've done is essentially say "NO MOJANG WORKS HARD OK THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT".

View Postchadmart, on 06 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

We don't know what their plans are.
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#19

Fredfredbug4

Posted 06 June 2012 - 11:08 PM

Supported everything you said up until number 7. Bashing the whiny kids is alright but now you are bashing a lot of people that have been working to fix the problem.

Bronies have contributed heavily to the community through introducing a different and new play style to the game such has hugging creepers rather than running from them.

The people going to Minecon were able to get face to face with some of the people at Mojang, and share with them their ideas and concerns regarding the game.

Just two examples, although the most outrageous thing you said in section 7 was telling us to take advice from /v/

Seriously? /v/? You complain about memes and yet you tell us to take advice from a board that has degraded to almost nothing but memes? And your all caps rage makes me believe you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
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#20

citricacid2400

Posted 06 June 2012 - 11:18 PM

I made an account just for the sake of replying to this thread. Someone needs to get this into the hands of Jeb and the Mojang team because (almost) everything stated within should be implemented within the game and they need to start working on it ASAP.