Because I am a Moderator for this section, it would be unprofessional of me to issue warnings or take any actions against users in this thread. However, This does not mean you have free reign to break the rules in this thread. Any rule breaking posts will be handled by another MG Moderator, our Global Moderators, or a Forum Admin. I will also personally report any rule breaking posts to any of the people I just listed.
Breaking News: Apparently the old gun thread that fell into a black hole has fallen out of said black hole. It can be found HERE. However, I shall keep this thread open and try to keep it as organized as possible. I will also begin merging the threads together as I have time.
Also: I have no idea why there are the occasional odd line breaks when I edit this. They aren't in the edit when I type it. I'm working on it though.
Due to a forum error causing our previous gun megathread to vanish into some kind of black hole, I am remaking the Official Gun Thread here. This will be the official place to post any and all suggestions related to handguns, rifles, machine guns, assault rifles, sniper rifles, crossbows, and anything else similar to that. I'll be managing this thread the best I can from now on. But just to make some things clear:
What Belongs in This Thread:
Any suggestion or idea about adding a ranged projectile weapon to Minecraft
Any ammunition for the aforementioned weapons
Any other items directly related to these guns (quiver, ammo pouch, etc.)
Any recipes on how to make the weapons or ammunition (obviously)
Any ideas or suggestions building off of those ideas
What DOESN'T Belong in This Thread
Suggestions on how to change the bow. This is only discussing new items.
This is not for discussing thrown weapons like Tomahawks, Boomerangs, Throwing Knives, Confetti (Wait... What?)
The only exception to this is if this item is also part of a gun suggestion, like a grenade for a grenade launcher.
This is not for saying that guns shouldn't be in Minecraft. I know that is a common opinion but this thread is devoted specifically to gun suggestions.
To clarify this, you are welcome to say why you dislike the idea of guns or a certain gun being in Minecraft. But anything along the lines of "Guns? Lolnope" or flaming people because they want a specific gun will be treated as spam/flaming. (Thank you AnonTheMouse for helping clarify this)
Also, one final thing to mention: Just saying "There should be <gun> in Minecraft" is not enough for me to justify adding it to the OP. I need at least some kind of information like a crafting recipe or something.
Frequently Asked Questions and Frequently Used Arguments
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More will be added here as I think of them.
FAQ
Question - Why guns?
Answer - Why not?
Q - What happened to the old thread?
A - As I said above, it is gone. We don't know how or why, and even the higher ups can't see it.
Q - Do you, the OP, want guns in Minecraft?
A - Personally, I don't give a damn one way or the other. I'm not clamoring for a musket but I don't mind if it is added provided it is added with balance.
FUA
(And yes, I have seen each of these arguments used before)
Argument - Guns don't belong in Minecraft
Rebuttal - Why not exactly? Other than violating your personal belief on what Minecraft should be, what is a reason they don't belong?
A - Why have a gun when we have a bow?
R - This came from AnonTheMouse but it works out rather nicely:
There is no need for five tiers of sword. One melee weapon is sufficient.
Similarly, it is redundant to have more than one of each tool.
It might even be too redundant to have more than one tool period.
There is no need for more than one kind of stone. Cobblestone, Stone Brick, circlestones...these are all unnecessary.
We do not need four kinds of wood that all do the same thing.
Why have two kinds of pressure plate?
Charcoal is redundant to coal.
Panes of glass are not needed because we have glass blocks.
Porkcohps fill the need for food. We should not have beef, mushroom stew, cake, bread, or anything else.
Now, I'm not saying any of this is true. However, it follows the same kind of logic. Why have more than one thing for the same purpose? The answer is, of course, that it makes the game more interesting.
A - Too overpowered
R - Anything can be balanced if you try hard enough at it. It's more a matter of making it balanced, but still being different enough from alternatives to justify having it.
A - How can you make a complicated firearm with no special equipment
R - Here's 8 Planks and a Diamond. Build me a Jukebox.
A - Too advanced for Minecraft
R - We have a modern piston, which was invented decades after the first gun was invented. We also have redstone, which is an alternative to electricity. Both relatively new inventions compared to firearms.
A - This doesn't fit the theme of Minecraft
R - Not only is the supposed theme not yours to decide, we already have electronics, undead monsters and giant spiders, exploding Creepers, and a fiery realm as well as a realm with a giant black dragon. The only theme this game has is "Fun"
A - No
R - *This post has been removed as spam*
A - YEAH AND THEN LET'S MAKE GRENADES AND ROCKETS AND MAKE THIS CALL OF GUNCRAFT
R - This is an example of where I take no action, but report it to one of the other moderators.
There is ye old Blunderbuss. A one shot weapon that is an early shotgun, firing whatever was stuffed down the barrel. It should have the power to kill most mobs in one shot at close range, however in order to reload it you must use the crafting menu to add gunpowder and cobblestone to it.
@Drunkenp0wNeR: I like the idea of a blunderbuss. I have always assumed, though, that it would shoot gravel, as that is the easiest way to get something like buckshot. I suppose the result would be a limited range area weapon with damage that fluctuates wildly (represented by damage as an X-Y range rather than a fixed value, which decreases both values with distance until both become 1/2).
For now, I would suggest adding a simple musket and loader. To reload, you would combine the rifle in your 2x2 crafting grid, place your loader in front of the rifle, an iron pellet above the loader, and gunpowder above the rifle. We can see if this works, and add more if it does. At least give it a chance.
First things first, we make the bow have longer range
Okay, the musket itself is crafted like so:
And the normal round is made like this:
This creates 4 Musket Cartridges, which would look like these:
Anyway, that would do 5 1/2 hearts or on a crit, 6.
To load the musket, you must hold down right mouse button, which will have an eating/drinking styled animation, but about twice as long. The hammer would move back when this is done
When the musket is loaded, it will be held in a style similar to the charged bow, but with no slowdown.
The musket would be most effective at let's say for now, 18 blocks. Every block over would decrease in damage by 1/2 a heart.
When fired, it would be a hitscan weapon, but would not be perfectly accurate.
It has about 70 durability, but it can be repaired by crafting it with a Flint & Steel
As suggested by Valen, mobs hit by bullets will drop them on death and bullets can be retrieved from blocks
However, these would drop musket balls, which need to be recrafted with paper and gunpowder to fire again
Now, you may have noticed I referred to the Musket Cartridge as a 'normal round'
That's because the musket can use multiple extra forms of ammunition.
The first is Buckshot, which essentially turns the musket into a shotgun:
Shots individually would do less damage, and would only have a 9 block range, halving the normal range.
The Grapeshot cartridge would appear as a fatter version of the Musket Cartridge, with patterned spherical bulges at the front. Due to the abundance of gravel, this recipe will only create 2
This would not be retrievable
The second would be Stone Cartridge, crafted in this way:
Stone cartridges would be more of an emergency round, when iron is low. These do 4 hearts and on a crit, 4 1/2. It would appear similar to the normal round, but with a gray stripe going around the front
I'm not too sure about this one.
The third would be the Magnum Cartridge
Obsidian is, if you do not know, a volcanic glass, which means while it is very sharp, it is also very fragile.
Which makes it perfect for a gun whose ammo isn't retrievable in the first place.
Anyway, this recipe would make 2 Magnum Cartridges, which travel 24 blocks, has (possibly) a tighter spread, and does 8 hearts, and on a crit, 8 1/2 of damage
This would also not be retrievable
But how would you fire different rounds?
Glad you asked, imaginary reader.
Crafting a musket and a round will convert it to only fire that type of round. (You will get the round back)
For example, if I had just used up all my Grapeshot, I could put the Grapeshot Musket into the 2x crafting grid with my normal cartridges and turn it back into a normal Musket, and vice versa
Anyways, I was thinking that muskets, as they used to be, need to be high maintanence. Perhaps 100 uses max, and adding a flint(assuming flintlocks) would restore 15, adding a new bayonet would restore x, etc.
The important thing, in my opinion, is that making ammunition is balanced. If it's easier to get than a bow, than noone will use a bow. If it's too hard to get, then no one will use muskets because they'd be too costly to use.
Perhaps 4 iron shaped in a ball could create 4-8 musket balls? This would then be crafted like so
P M P
P P P
P G P With P being paper, M being a musket ball, and G being gunpowder.
Musket Balls would be retrievable upon a dead enemy, but would be retrieved as dirty musket balls. 8 dirty musket balls surrounding a bucket of water(which would be returned, like milk buckets in cake) creates 8 new musket balls.
Because let's be honest. Muskets aren't particularly reliable at the best of times, so how will ramming balls covered in grime and blood help?
Crossbows would improve the variety of Minecraft's ranged arsenal. They would work by drawing back to load (taking about 5 seconds), clicking and holding down the right mouse button to aim (perhaps with sights?) and release to fire. These wouldn't be used for short distance engagements, mostly for sniping because of there long reload time. The ammunition they would use are called bolts. They are visually smaller and wider than arrows, and are crafted with iron instead of flint.
Max stack (crossbow)=1
Max stack (bolts)=32
If that was not clear enough, here is how they fire:
1.You start unloaded (after you craft the item).
2.To reload, hold down the right mouse button for around 5 seconds.
Now you are loaded and ready to fire.
3.To aim after loading, hold down the right mouse button again. This will make your shot far more accurate at long distances.
4.Release once you are on target and ready to shoot. This is how you fire.
NOTE: You will not be able to move at all when reloading.
Crossbow types:
Wood Crossbow: These would be the first tier, constructed of a bow, a one gold ingot, one redstone dust, three string, two wood planks and a stick. It would do 6 hearts of damage (one more heart than the bow), and have a increase in range (over a bow). As a special feature, they would be faster to reload.
Iron Crossbow: Second tier, constructed of a wooden crossbow, five iron ingots, one gold ingot, one redstone dust, and two panes of glass. It would do 7.5 hearts of damage (2.5 hearts more than the bow) and have much more range than the normal bow. As a special feature it would have a scope to allow zooming in (x4) when you are are about to fire. The scope wouldn't black out the rest of the screen like it does in FPS games, it would just make everything outside of the scope normal. Much like the Killing Floor Crossbow.
Gold Crossbow: The gold crossbow is a different crossbow entirely, depending on enchantments for its power. It is built with five gold ingots, three string, and some redstone dust. It would only have a slight increase in range over the normal bow and 5 hearts of damage (5 is the bow's maximum damage without enchantments). As a special feature, it will have many more enchantments over the other crossbows to compensate for it's lack of range and power over the other crossbows.. Some of the higher level enchantments include rapid-fire (not meaning automatic), explosive arrows, and aim assist.
In addition, all projectiles fired by crossbow will have greater velocity than those from a bow. This is how they will achieve greater range.
I wouldn't mind a flintlock pistol that has a extremely limited life span making bows better for overall combat making it so that the flintlock could be overpowered but have draw backs and could make a major drain on sulfur and on iron making so that people couldn't easily spam with it on survival.
In my opinion, some of the first percussion cap, breech-loading rifles would be balanced and make sense. They were long-ranged, accurate, extremely powerful, but took up to 15 seconds to reload, and were more expensive than a bow or crossbow.
Bullets could be made with this recipe:
redstone-gunpowder-iron ingot.
That would give you 4 bullets. To fire once, you need to craft the gun with a bullet in your 2x2 crafting grid. The projectile would be very, very fast, have almost no arc, and do 6 hearts of damage to an unarmored opponent.
Here's a picture of one of the first percussion caps:
As you can see, it is extremely primitive compared to modern firearms. It was really nothing more than a flintlock with the ignition stored inside the bullet. The hammer strikes the little cylinder sticking out, and that makes a little spark inside the gun that ignites the gunpowder.
How about the Chu Ko Nu, the Chinese Repeating Crossbow? It could basically be the old bow: faster fire rate but shorter range and less damage. That's pretty true to what it is in real life.
I believe that if Minecraft is going to involve any from of firearm, I believe they should start with some sort of Magical Gun. What I'm thinking is a Splash Potion Cannon.
Crafted like so;
I. Ingot / I. Ingot / I. Ingot
I. Ingot / G. Powder / Awkward Splash Potion
I. Ingot / I. Ingot / Leather
The Splash Potion Cannon, after crafted, is empty. You must then craft it with any Splash Potion to load it with that particular Potion. The Splash Potion Cannon simply firs Splahs Potions at an extremely long range, amking it a deadly weapon when loaded with a Splash Poison. It can be crafted with stacks of potions, or with multiple stacks, to load it with more than one shot.
I hate arrows filling up my inventory. I suggest that there should definiteley be quivers. Maybe press a key or something and you put the quiver on, I don't know.
I am advocating muskets as a different style of combat.
Bow and arrows are least effective in close encounters, such as in caves which is because they require to be drawn back, and does not have a way to deal melee damage, so you always have to carry a sword. When it comes to guns, it doesn't mean it has have to be more OP than the bow, it can be a different style of fighting.
A musket and bayonet DOES NOT have to be drawn back like a bow, you just press a trigger for instantaneous fire. At the same time you can melee. The only downfall is like the realistic counterpart in real life, where it consumes gunpowder and iron for each shot, since they serve as bullets and propellers. They also take very long time to reload. If you know muskets in real life, the reloading is actually a series of steps. So primarily, it would be useful as a melee weapon, and only fire when you NEED to fire, such as a creeper being next to you.
The shot fires as soon as you click the mouse, and the damage of the shot does 2x more damage than a bow, and has 2x the knockback of a bow. Then you will have to reload it, where the reloading time is 4 times as long as drawing back the bow to its maximum extent, to shoot again, but you can use the melee musket bayonet to jab the creeper to death after it has been knocked back considerably far, without having to reload. So muskets are good for close encounters.
You don't have to reload to use the bayonet, so once you knock back a creeper with your shot, you can jab it with the range on the bayonet, without having to reload yet. You can reload after you killed the creeper.
Bayonets will have 1 more range than your sword, because muskets designs are long, but does less damage than a sword. Musket bullets will be LESS affected by gravity per distance traveled because of higher projectile speed.
Musket bullets can be retrieved as iron bullets stuck on the ground, unless it hits the mob or goes off too far away. Gunpowder is consumed, however because it is ignited to propel the iron bullet.
Style 1: Use sword and bow
Advantages:
-Cheaper to make
-Because it is cheaper than the musket-bayonet, it is best for grinding mobs.
Disadvantages
-Swords and bows don't stack with another, so takes up more space.
-Need to search inventory for bow or sword to switch between melee and bow.
Style 2: Use musket and bayonet.
Advantages:
-Requires less inventory space than sword and bow, because bayonets are attached to the musket.
-Can change between melee and range very fast with left mouse(jabs bayonet) or right mouse(shoots bullet).
-With more room, you can have one more stack of cobblestone in your inventory during mining, so this style is especially suited for combat during mining.
Disadvantages:
-Bullets require iron and gunpowder.
The Bayonet:
The bayonet can be made of wood, stone, iron or diamond. You can attach to a musket by combining the bayonet with the musket on a crafting table.
The bayonet will break after a certain amount of uses with it attached to the musket. You can repair the musket with a new bayonet by combing the musket with a new bayonet at the crafting table.
If your rifle has its bayonet broken during combat, your melee mode switches to rifle butting, which is still the left click of the mouse just like left clicking to attack with bayonet. This is until you get a new bayonet.
Bayonets have longer usage times because it is smaller than the sword, which makes it more compact.
The musket:
The musket has its own different life, or the amount of uses. The green use bar for musket is on the bottom of the musket and bayonet icon, and the bayonet life bar is on the top of the musket and bayonet item icon.
The musket barrel can ONLY be made of iron or diamond. Diamond muskets have longer life spans, as opposed to iron.
Each fire and rifle butt using your musket depletes the musket life bar.
You make pellet and propellant by combining iron ingots and gunpowder in your crafting table. The icon is a picture of iron pellets and gunpowder. Having this items in your inventory is required to fire a musket.
There are two settings on muskets. You can fire single bullets or multiple bullets. Multiple bullet mode does splash or area of effect damage, but less damage than the single shot mode, which as the name implies shoots one iron bullet.
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Generally:
-Gives you a reason to grind on creepers.
-Damage output of both styles on average should be the same, but the styles are useful for different occasions.
Who doesn't like more fighting styles? Sword and bow gets boring after a while.
What also makes using musket and bayonets cool is that there should be sound effects, that happens when reloading as well as when firing, such as clinking noises. The musket will disappear off-screen to be reloaded, and you can hear the process of reloading, which takes 4 times as long as fully drawing back a bow.
Conclusion:
We get a new fighting style without having to resort to magic attacks.
I also have an idea for alchemy. The Bow would be primarily powered up through enchantment, but the gun would be primarily powered up through alchemy.
You combine:
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc + 16 potion of poison = 64 poisoned shots.
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc +16 potion of strength = 64 power shots.
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc + 16 potions of slowness = 64 crippling shots (slows enemies).
And a new alchemy potion: The Flameburst Potion:
You make flame burstpotion combining potion of poison with blaze powder. Flame burst potion sets anything on fire around the area you threw the potion.
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc +16 flameburst potions = 64 flameburst shots, which sets enemies on fire when you shoot them.
Yoshi's argument about guerilla tactics has actually made me realize something. There is an aspect in which all ranged weapons need a drawback, which they currently do not have. At present, there is little reason not to use a bow at close range, and the only thing that would keep a firearm from being overpowered for the same reason, a longer cooldown (in the form of reloading), gives the bow an overall advantage. However, both to encourage a mix of ranged and close combat, and to give the gun a distinct benefit, I think all ranged weapons should suffer from interruption.
Specifically what this means is that, when drawing back a bow or loading a firearm (or spinning a sling, or what-have-you) taking damage (or perhaps only knockback) would have at least a chance of causing you to loose the shot, representing fumbling the weapon. That would give players a reason not to rely on ranged weapons at close range, since an opponent could prevent them from attacking simply by keeping the pressure on. Where firearms would get an advantage is that they can be loaded in advance, whereas a bow has to be held. Thus the bow is susceptible to interruption at all times, while a gun can only be interrupted for a few seconds between shots. Where does this tie into guerilla warfare? A skilled musketeer could take advantage of the fact to disrupt his bow-wielding opponent before they can shoot, while they could not do the same to him. Yes, a player could learn to compensate, and to take advantage of the bow's shorter draw time, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It simply means that the gun would not be overpowered in comparison to the bow, simply removing several drawbacks that a skilled player can also manually adjust for, but might find it more convenient not to have to.
With obsidian being part of the barrel, this makes the cannon fairly costly. When placed it faces away from you, and when right clicked it opens up a box with two slots, one for ammo (gunpowder), and the other for cannonballs. Cannonballs are just smoothstone blocks, the cost of gunpowder and obsidian is enough to make the cannon a rarely used tool.
When activated by redstone or a spark, it will immediately fire out a cannonball, which deals a large amount of damage to creatures within X many blocks in front of it before exploding in a small detonation if it hasn't already hit something. I am uncertain with damage values but I believe creepers are an explosion of "3" so the cannonball should be explosion of 1 or 2. The large damage makes it suitable for killing mobs in one hit. The limited amount of gunpowder makes it difficult to fire constantly. After firing, it has a 5 second cooldown before it can fire again as the cannon reloads. Alternatively, make it require manual loading of a new piece of gunpowder and cannonball each time, though this excludes redstone utility.
As an addition, add a cannon to a minecart for a railway gun. It is the same thing, but quite a bit more mobile.
I say a big stupid(I tend to add the word stupid when I'm talking about something big) rocket launcher.
XXX
OOO
XXX
The X's are Obsidian, and the O's are gunpowder or something. The launchers have some range, and has 1 and a half more than the tnt explosion. I think it would be good to get revenge against creepers, and would help a lot with the Enderdragon. Just not when fighting something next to your home
Since nothing has been suggested for the "Crazy Ridiculous Awesomefrickentastical Guns" category, and because my ego causes me to think I can make anything feasible, I've decided to suggest something a little (read "a lot") off the wall. Call it the 'Redstone Disruptor'.
Disruptor Recipe:
This would produce a pistol-like weapon, similar in appearance to a retro-style raygun. Like a bow or gun, it uses ammo, thought of a slightly different variety, in keeping with the unique mechanics I will explain below. Said ammo is crafted as follows:
Ammo Recipe:
This would be a shapeless recipe, but only produce one "Disruptor Pellet", the ammunition for the Redstone Disruptor. It would resemble a shimmering blue-green orb.
The disruptor would have a range only 2/3 that of the bow, with equal velocity. The shots would not arc, however, the Disruptor itself would only have 100 shots of durability. The projectiles themselves would have a glow effect, making them highly visible, even in the dark. At maximum range, or upon striking something, the projectile would simply vanish, making a particle effect like an Enderman's teleport. The shot itself would do only minor damage (1.5 hearts) and the gun would have a "cooldown" period roughly equal to a bow's drawback, possibly represented by a blinking light on the top of the Disruptor. However, when hit, a mob or player would appear to teleport, vanishing in the same manner as an Enderman, only to re-appear in the same spot a moment (one second or less) later. For a player, they wouldn't actually go anywhere, but for that period, their screen would get a teleportation "ripple effect" and their controls would be disabled, meanwhile, the game would temporarily not display their avatar nor give them collision. Thus, the purpose of this weapon is not to deal damage, but rather as the name implies to disrupt enemy tactics, providing an opening to either flee or change the tide of battle.
This idea is certainly silly. However, I have done what I can to make it not unbalancing. Please tell me how well I have succeeded. Hopefully, this can provide a benchmark for the most "out there" an idea should be...at least, if I have done a proper job of it.
Note: This thread is only what you make of it. I'll do my best to manage the thread as far as keeping the ideas organized. Once it needs it, I will be adding a table of contents as well. So go ahead and talk about guns.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
I think that the only way for guns to be implemented well is by making sure they're not just a stronger bow.
Consider team fortress 2. Every alternative gun is always balanced around the starting weapon(in this case, the bow). No weapon in the game is explicitly better,but they excell in different situations.
Hmm, I was going to reply in the other thread via a vis the nature of people not liking guns, but that thread is locked. I am not really a gun supporter, but I actually have no problem with them. They were giving you a hard time and not being helpful at all, if you're interested maybe I can elaborate elsewhere. However, this is the gun thread, so while I'm here I may as well stay on topic and suggest something gun related.
One thing I always thought fitting is actually the Cannon rather than a handheld gun projectile. The cannon fills the purpose of an arrow dispenser, mob slaying, and partly fills the roll of TNT since it destroys weak blocks.
Quote from Cannon »
The cannon is produced as follows.
With obsidian being part of the barrel, this makes the cannon fairly costly. When placed it faces away from you, and when right clicked it opens up a box with two slots, one for ammo (gunpowder), and the other for cannonballs. Cannonballs are just smoothstone blocks, the cost of gunpowder and obsidian is enough to make the cannon a rarely used tool.
When activated by redstone or a spark, it will immediately fire out a cannonball, which deals a large amount of damage to creatures within X many blocks in front of it before exploding in a small detonation if it hasn't already hit something. I am uncertain with damage values but I believe creepers are an explosion of "3" so the cannonball should be explosion of 1 or 2. The large damage makes it suitable for killing mobs in one hit. The limited amount of gunpowder makes it difficult to fire constantly. After firing, it has a 5 second cooldown before it can fire again as the cannon reloads. Alternatively, make it require manual loading of a new piece of gunpowder and cannonball each time, though this excludes redstone utility.
As an addition, add a cannon to a minecart for a railway gun. It is the same thing, but quite a bit more mobile.
One request is that you be sure that when designing guns you don't step on the toes of bows. This is difficult since they fulfill similar goals (damage at range) so it should be unique enough to justify itself over bows. Also consider what the implications become in a PvP setting or with griefers.
Hi moderator, I updated my section on muskets and bayonets: (4/24/2012): Types of pellets added, and new alchemy. (4/22/2012): Interruption of ranged weapons, see below. (4/21/2012): Musket butting at range of 2x>range>0x, where x is the range of the sword. 2x is the only effective range of bayonet. Read suggestion for full specifications. Also decreased approximate reloading time of muskets. (4/20/2012): Bayonet melee specified further below. (4/19/2012): Added alchemy as power ups for ammunitions. (4/18/2012): Added new things
Some ideas for guns, but should not be considered the ultimate solution:
I am advocating muskets as a different style of combat.
Why should gun be added instead of any other weapon? Well what other infantry weapon can you add that existed around the same time that the bow was massively used as a range weapon? Crossbow comes to mind, but that is too similar to the bow. What other candidate than the gun for a more different combat style?
Napoleon had greater firing power, greater numbers, and thus greater rates of fire. But when he tried to invade Spain, as I recall, guerilla militia of Spain, units armed with muskets or some other weaponry, inflicted heavier casualties upon Napoleon through guerilla warfare. Same thing happened in the Vietnam war, although casualties might be different. I am using history, as basis for the guerilla warfare style of musket and bayonet, which although slow, as proven in history, can still be fatal when one uses it tactically.
Throughout history, the most different ranged infantry weapon, from the bow, around the medieval era (circa 500 A.C.E to 1500 A.C.E)was the gun, which was not used widely. So it makes sense, that a different weapon style should be of the gun. No other infantry weapon existed, that was different from the bow beyond that of a crossbow (I am not saying crossbows should not be added).
There is a reason why bows and guns exist in the real world, which is because of their different uses.
Bow and arrows are least effective in close encounters, such as in caves which is because they require to be drawn back, and does not have a way to deal melee damage, so you always have to carry a sword. When it comes to guns, it doesn't mean it has have to be more OP than the bow, it can be a different style of fighting.
I will also be using x as the range of the sword or knock back rates relative to another item, and any multiple of x are only suggested magnitudes and not strictly imposed as the ultimate outcome of the musket and bayonet, because this is up to the person who writes the algorithms for mine craft.
Styles of Fighting:
Style 1: Use sword and bow
Advantages:
-Cheaper to make
-Because it is cheaper than the musket-bayonet, it is best for grinding mobs.
-Most suitable for open terrain combat, e.g, plains and deserts.
Disadvantages
-Swords and bows don't stack with another, so takes up more space.
-Need to search inventory for bow or sword to switch between melee and bow.
Style 2: Use musket and bayonet.
Advantages:
-Requires less inventory space than sword and bow, because bayonets are attached to the musket.
-Can change between melee and range very fast with left mouse(jabs bayonet) or right mouse(shoots bullet).
-With more room, you can have one more stack of cobblestone in your inventory during mining, so this style is especially suited for combat during mining.
-Most suitable for non-open terrain combat, e.g., forests and narrow caves.
Disadvantages:
-Bullets require iron and gunpowder.
Interruption Mechanics(First suggested by AnonTheMouse):
A player using a ranged weapon can be interrupted based on the amount of damage done. The higher the damage, the greater the chance of interruption. Interruption causes the ranged weapon to go back to before-drawn-mode for bow, so as to have to draw the bow again. For muskets, if a musketeer is interrupted during reload, then the musketeer has to reload again.
Because bows fire faster than muskets, it seems unfair because bows can continuously interrupt musketeers trying to reload on open terrain combat, and leaving the musketeer almost no chance to reload. To balance this, interruption would then be based off of damage dealt from a single attack, where the higher the damage, the higher the chance of interruption. Since muskets do 2x the damage of bows, they have a higher chance of interruption per shot, but because bows can deal more attacks per time, they get chances to interrupt based on number of shots, while muskets get to interrupt based on attack power of shots. This allows both combat styles to have a chance on any terrain, even the ones where they are at a disadvantage.
Furthermore, melee weapons will always (100%) interrupt ranged drawing of bow or reloading of musket.
The Bayonet:
You don't have to reload to use the bayonet, so once you knock back a creeper with your shot, you can jab it with the range on the bayonet, without having to reload yet. You can reload after you killed the creeper.
Bayonets will have 2x the range of the sword, because muskets designs are long, but does less damage than a sword.
The bayonet can be made of wood, stone, iron or diamond. You can attach to a musket by combining the bayonet with the musket on a crafting table.
The bayonet will break after a certain amount of uses with it attached to the musket. You can repair the musket with a new bayonet by combing the musket with a new bayonet at the crafting table.
If your rifle has its bayonet broken during combat, your melee mode switches to rifle butting, which is still the left click of the mouse just like left clicking to attack with bayonet. This is until you get a new bayonet.
Bayonets have longer usage times because it is smaller than the sword, which makes it more compact.
The bayonet does 0.5 the knock back distance of a sword. Sword will not be useless because it does more damage. During PVP, If you can hide behind an obstacle, such that people cannot attack through walls, you effectively have the higher dps when you fight around obstacles. Imagine yourself in a cave, 2x distance of bayonet is useless if the person being hit is against a wall, so that person using a sword can kill the guy who is using a bayonet due to higher dps.
Further more, a bayonet can only hit players or mobs 2 blocks away from them. If a mob or player is within 0x<range<2x where x is the range of sword, or if the mob or player is at a range>2x, then the bayonet won't be able to hit the player or mob. The bayonet only hits mobs or players at a block distance of range equal to 2x the sword. So it takes some skill to use a bayonet.
Had I removed the range requirement of bayonet to be exactly at 2x of the sword, then no sword user can ever have a chance against bayonet users. I have argued with someone about this matter. I conceded that this would be unfair to sword users, so I constraint bayonet range to be at 2x of sword. With the use of musket butting in 2x>range>0x, sword users have a chance to do 4x the damage done by musket butts during an exchange of hits at close range. If bayonets worked on 2x>range>0x, sword users cannot have a chance to out damage bayonets, because they would be constantly knocked back. But, through skillful maneuver, when the sword user was to come below 2x range of bayonet, the sword user can hit the bayonet user, dealing 2x the damage of bayonets or 4x damage of musket butt to ensure sword users a chance to out damage bayonets using skill. Then in that range, the musket butting comes in, that is if the sword user ever closed in the range on the first place to deal 2x damage of bayonet, or 4x damage of musket butting. This is also because bayonets are supposed to be doing 0.5x damage of sword, and to decrease that damage to compensate for sword users, I put musket butting as attack that does 0.25x of sword at 2x>range>0x. This also adds more features and animations to minecraft.
Musket Butting:
At a range of 2x>range>0x, where bayonet is ineffective, musket butting would automatically used as melee. Musket butting would also occur when you do not have a bayonet attached at a range of 2x. Butting does 0.25x the damage of the sword, but does the 1x the knock back of the sword. If you move back and rifle butt at the same time, you would be approximately at a range far enough to damage the opponent with bayonet. Then the opponent would be forced to use a bow, so now the musket man hides to reload.
The musket:
Musket bullets will be LESS affected by gravity per distance traveled because of higher projectile speed.
Musket bullets can be retrieved as iron bullets stuck on the ground, unless it hits the mob or goes off too far away. Gunpowder is still consumed because it is ignited to propel the iron bullet. After the mob dies, they drop your iron bullets you shot them with, because iron is not renewable and uncommon, unlike flint, wood and feather, which are all renewable for arrows of bow.
A musket and bayonet DOES NOT have to be drawn back like a bow, you just press a trigger for instantaneous fire. At the same time you can melee. The only downfall is like the realistic counterpart in real life, where it consumes gunpowder and iron for each shot, since they serve as bullets and propellers. They also take very long time to reload. If you know muskets in real life, the reloading is actually a series of steps. So primarily, it would be useful as a melee weapon, and only fire when you NEED to fire, such as a creeper being next to you.
The shot fires as soon as you click the mouse, and the damage of the shot does 2x more damage than a bow, and has 2x the knockback of a bow. Then you will have to reload it, where the reloading time is 3x as long as drawing back the bow to its maximum extent, to shoot again, but you can use the melee musket bayonet to jab the creeper to death after it has been knocked back considerably far, without having to reload. So muskets are good for close encounters.
The musket has its own different life, or the amount of uses. The green use bar for musket is on the bottom of the musket and bayonet icon, and the bayonet life bar is on the top of the musket and bayonet item icon.
The musket barrel can ONLY be made of iron or diamond. Diamond muskets have longer life spans, as opposed to iron.
Each fire and rifle butt using your musket depletes the musket life bar.
You make pellet and propellant by combining iron ingots and gunpowder in your crafting table. The icon is a picture of iron pellets and gunpowder. Having this items in your inventory is required to fire a musket.
There are two settings on muskets. You can fire single bullets or multiple bullets. Multiple bullet mode does splash or area of effect damage, but less damage than the single shot mode, which as the name implies shoots one iron bullet.
Bullets
There are a few types of bullets you can make. Keep in mind that all bullets shot can be recollected after the mob is killed (except for wooden bullets), in which case the mob drops the bullets you shot it with.
-Wooden pellets: Does no damage, but sets enemy on fire. Made from wood. Is not recollectable.
The wooden bullet does no damage, but it does set the enemy on fire. It will also set the ground on fire, but the fire is small and won't spread. The light effect is the same as the light from the torch. You can use this bullet to shoot at dark areas far away from you to see what is there. This is like a flare, but made of wood. The fire burns out after some time. You can use this to explore deep ravine if you cannot use lava, which requires buckets and cannot stack.
Or if you caught at night in the ocean and it is too dark to see. You can try to see if land is in front of you by shooting your wooden bullet, such as to avoid crashes.
The bullet being made of wood and is burnt, is thus non-recollectable after being shot. This is okay because wood is renewable.
-Stone pellets: Does half the damage of iron bullets. Made from cobblestone.
-Iron pellets: 2x the damage of a bow: Made from iron.
-Exploding pellets: Does 3x damage of a bow, and explodes like a mini-TNT, but does not destroy blocks. Made from combining iron pellets with gunpowder. Gunpowder is used up after firing.
-Diamond pellet: Does 2x the damage of a bow, just like iron, but passes through multiple targets to a maximum of 5, doing knock back to all of the mobs it passes through. Made from diamond. If there are no more mobs to receive the shot, then the bullet will eventually hit the ground and get stuck there for you to pick it back up. KEEP IN MIND: If you shoot a player, and the player escapes, you cannot get your diamond bullet back.
Diamond bullets do the same damage as iron bullets. Diamond bullets can hit an ender dragon 5 times per shot, due to the ender dragon's size. This means greater damage against bigger mobs.
Diamond pellets stuck on the ground will be conspicuously blue, and will twinkle.
Power Ups
I also have an idea for alchemy. The Bow would be primarily powered up through enchantment, but the gun would be primarily powered up through alchemy.
Alchemy power ups added to wooden bullets only gives the effect, but still no damage. Flameburst potion stacks damage with wooden bullets, in that damage over time from fire is increased.
All alchemical power ups are stackable with the piercing multi-shot effect of diamond bullets.
You combine:
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc + 16 potion of poison = 64 poisoned shots.
-Poisons enemies
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc +16 potion of strength = 64 power shots.
-Extra damage against enemies
-Increased knockback
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc + 16 potions of slowness = 64 crippling shots
-slows enemies
And a new alchemy potion: The Flameburst Potion:
You make flame burstpotion combining potion of poison with blaze powder. Flame burst potion sets anything on fire around the area you threw the potion.
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc +16 flameburst potions = 64 flameburst shots, which sets enemies on fire when you shoot them, as well as do damage of the iron bullet.
Furthermore, the bullets that drops after you killed a mob, is not the alchemical bullet, but the regular iron bullet, as the alchemical effects have been consumed.
And a new alchemy potion: The Explosive Liquid:
Combine flameburst potion with gunpowder. This amplifies the damage of explosive pellets. This effect is also stackable with the piercing multi-shot effect of diamond bullets.
For explosive diamond pellets, it would pass through multiple targets, each hit causing a small explosion that does not destroy blocks. If there are no mobs to receive a hit, then the pellet hits the ground, which causes another explosion.
-Damage output of both styles on average should be the same, but the styles are useful for different occasions.
Who doesn't like more fighting styles? Sword and bow gets boring after a while.
What also makes using musket and bayonets cool is that there should be sound effects, that happens when reloading as well as when firing, such as clinking noises. The musket will disappear off-screen to be reloaded, and you can hear the process of reloading, which takes 4 times as long as fully drawing back a bow.
Conclusion:
We get a new fighting style without having to resort to magic attacks.
If you don't like musket style, use your lame-same sword and bow. See how much fun it is to use it forever.
Are we really to discriminate against the use of guns because its propellant is a different type of chemical reaction than the bow? The bow just uses biological energy as its propellant, while the gun uses gunpowder, WHICH MINECRAFT HAS AND TNTS TOO.
There is ye old Blunderbuss. A one shot weapon that is an early shotgun, firing whatever was stuffed down the barrel. It should have the power to kill most mobs in one shot at close range, however in order to reload it you must use the crafting menu to add gunpowder and cobblestone to it.
@Badprenup: If I might suggest, specifically forbidding any dissenting opinions is probably not the best course of action. Yes, I understand that topics that get into why guns should or should not exist get derailed quite quickly. However, statements that this thread is only for suggesting guns, not for giving reasons against their inclusion is sending the wrong message. As someone who, generally, supports the inclusion of simple firearms from a logical standpoint, I think it is important that there be a bit of discussion. If people can't weigh the pros and cons, their opinions can't be changed. Not to say I want to open the floodgates to the usual hate posts, however any constructive discussion can benefit the topic as a whole.
So, perhaps rather than forbidding anti-gun talk altogether, it would be more politic to merely forbid non-constructive posts (such as those of the "Guns? NO!" variety) while still permitting those who have a valid and well-constructed argument to voice their opinion. To facilitate and streamline this, perhaps the OP could be modified to include a "Frequently Raised Arguments (F.R.A.)" section to cover the most often voiced reasoning from both sides to avoid redundancy. Ideally with notation where an argument has already been unequivocally disproved or countered, such as noting the historical inaccuracy of the common "guns are too modern" argument.
@Abrogation: I agree totally. In fact, even the Revolver might be a bit too advanced. While there are certainly some advanced and complicated devices able to be made in Minecraft, the old adage goes "less is more". Which in this case I typically take to mean "with limited resources and means of production, you will tend to produce the simplest form of an item for your task". Some could take that to mean you would stop at bows for your ranged projectile, I suppose, but assuming the skill and resources and understanding to produce firearms (which we have every reason to assume Steve possesses) I assume that anyone who knew how they worked would eventually make one for the sake of convenience. It's just that they would likely do so in a very basic form. Conveniently, this also fits well with Minecraft's visual style, where things tend toward simple construction.
@Drunkenp0wNeR: I like the idea of a blunderbuss. I have always assumed, though, that it would shoot gravel, as that is the easiest way to get something like buckshot. I suppose the result would be a limited range area weapon with damage that fluctuates wildly (represented by damage as an X-Y range rather than a fixed value, which decreases both values with distance until both become 1/2).
@Badprenup: If I might suggest, specifically forbidding any dissenting opinions is probably not the best course of action. Yes, I understand that topics that get into why guns should or should not exist get derailed quite quickly. However, statements that this thread is only for suggesting guns, not for giving reasons against their inclusion is sending the wrong message. As someone who, generally, supports the inclusion of simple firearms from a logical standpoint, I think it is important that there be a bit of discussion. If people can't weigh the pros and cons, their opinions can't be changed. Not to say I want to open the floodgates to the usual hate posts, however any constructive discussion can benefit the topic as a whole.
So, perhaps rather than forbidding anti-gun talk altogether, it would be more politic to merely forbid non-constructive posts (such as those of the "Guns? NO!" variety) while still permitting those who have a valid and well-constructed argument to voice their opinion. To facilitate and streamline this, perhaps the OP could be modified to include a "Frequently Raised Arguments (F.R.A.)" section to cover the most often voiced reasoning from both sides to avoid redundancy. Ideally with notation where an argument has already been unequivocally disproved or countered, such as noting the historical inaccuracy of the common "guns are too modern" argument.
@Abrogation: I agree totally. In fact, even the Revolver might be a bit too advanced. While there are certainly some advanced and complicated devices able to be made in Minecraft, the old adage goes "less is more". Which in this case I typically take to mean "with limited resources and means of production, you will tend to produce the simplest form of an item for your task". Some could take that to mean you would stop at bows for your ranged projectile, I suppose, but assuming the skill and resources and understanding to produce firearms (which we have every reason to assume Steve possesses) I assume that anyone who knew how they worked would eventually make one for the sake of convenience. It's just that they would likely do so in a very basic form. Conveniently, this also fits well with Minecraft's visual style, where things tend toward simple construction.
@Drunkenp0wNeR: I like the idea of a blunderbuss. I have always assumed, though, that it would shoot gravel, as that is the easiest way to get something like buckshot. I suppose the result would be a limited range area weapon with damage that fluctuates wildly (represented by damage as an X-Y range rather than a fixed value, which decreases both values with distance until both become 1/2).
If you take out those who argue using the single syllable argument, "no", against the use of guns. That takes care of about 80% of the community against guns.
The rest, or those who don't use the single syllable argument will tend to argue against guns because of peer pressure from the 80% of those who use the single syllable argument ("no"). Or, they don't know how simple early guns really are, so they attribute the workings of a gun to that of "magic", and paradoxically, they would accept non-existent full-time magical abilities such as telekinetic punches and invisibility over existing technological ingenuity of guns, which really is no magic at all!
Yes the revolver is too advanced for minecraft, it feels. I know how a revolver works, it requires fine precision tools that requires machines to make, such as springs and tiny hammering systems to ignite the gunpowder stored within bullets. Not to mention revolver bullets casings are aerodynamically designed and manufactured, which does not fit minecraft's survival theme. Bayonet and musket on the other hand can be made by hand because of the simple mechanisms, and since early guns can be found as early as around 1000 A.C.E (A.D.) in China, which is in the middle of the Medieval ages for Europe (medieval ages ranges from circa 500-1500 A.C.E).
In my opinion, some of the first percussion cap, breech-loading rifles would be balanced and make sense. They were long-ranged, accurate, extremely powerful, but took up to 15 seconds to reload, and were more expensive than a bow or crossbow.
Bullets could be made with this recipe:
redstone-gunpowder-iron ingot.
That would give you 4 bullets. To fire once, you need to craft the gun with a bullet in your 2x2 crafting grid. The projectile would be very, very fast, have almost no arc, and do 6 hearts of damage to an unarmored opponent.
Here's a picture of one of the first percussion caps:
As you can see, it is extremely primitive compared to modern firearms. It was really nothing more than a flintlock with the ignition stored inside the bullet. The hammer strikes the little cylinder sticking out, and that makes a little spark inside the gun that ignites the gunpowder.
Well, a part of my intent is that the eighty percent shall perhaps learn to express themselves more intelligently (please note, I am not saying that they are unintelligent, only criticising their writing). In the other twenty percent, there are occasionally relatively valid concerns of balance or thematic compatibility. More to the point, though, and as I said before, you cannot change minds without discussing the opinions you wish to modify.
As to repeating firearms, there are probably some designs that would be suitable. The Da Vinci "fan gun" comes to mind, for instance. However, feasible or not, I think that such weapons should probably be avoided in Minecraft. It's not that they would be logically inconsistent, but more of a balance issue. Any weapon that is consistently good in every situation detracts from all other weapons. With higher tiers, this makes sense. With ranged weapons, less so. Up close weapons should be the clear choice for close targets, and ranged weapons the clear choice for distant ones. So making certain there is a delay (ideally significantly longer than it takes to swing a sword) between shots is vital to preserving balance.
@Sting_Auer: The idea of redstone to make percussion caps is an interesting one. In previous threads, I've added an experience cost to the recipe, or made firearms essentially the same as bows but specialised to different targets. While adding redstone to the recipe isn't a new idea, I don't think I've heard the idea of making it pat of the ammunition before. Given the difficulty in obtaining redstone, and the quantity that would be needed if it were used to make bullets, this might actually demonstrate an acceptable balance for firearms as higher-tier ranged weapons.
I love seeing so much participation! but beyond the matter, a fully automatic weapon might be taking it a bit too far. for now, i would suggest adding a simple musket, and loader. to reload, you would combine the rifle in your 2x2 crafting grid, place your loader in front of the rifle, an iron pellet above the loader, and gunpowder above the rifle. we can see if this works, and add more if it does. at least give it a chance.
@Badprenup: If I might suggest, specifically forbidding any dissenting opinions is probably not the best course of action. Yes, I understand that topics that get into why guns should or should not exist get derailed quite quickly. However, statements that this thread is only for suggesting guns, not for giving reasons against their inclusion is sending the wrong message. As someone who, generally, supports the inclusion of simple firearms from a logical standpoint, I think it is important that there be a bit of discussion. If people can't weigh the pros and cons, their opinions can't be changed. Not to say I want to open the floodgates to the usual hate posts, however any constructive discussion can benefit the topic as a whole.
So, perhaps rather than forbidding anti-gun talk altogether, it would be more politic to merely forbid non-constructive posts (such as those of the "Guns? NO!" variety) while still permitting those who have a valid and well-constructed argument to voice their opinion. To facilitate and streamline this, perhaps the OP could be modified to include a "Frequently Raised Arguments (F.R.A.)" section to cover the most often voiced reasoning from both sides to avoid redundancy. Ideally with notation where an argument has already been unequivocally disproved or countered, such as noting the historical inaccuracy of the common "guns are too modern" argument.
It appears I misspoke. What you said is basically what I meant. You are more than welcome to say why you dislike the thought of guns or why one gun should be in and why one should not. But any posts following the lines of, as you said: "Guns? NO!" will be treated as what they are, spam.
Also, as for people saying some guns may be too advanced, I agree entirely. However, that hasn't stopped them from being suggested in the past and won't in the future. I sincerely doubt Jeb is going to be adding in an AT-4 Rocket Launcher with optional laser designation anytime soon, but that doesn't mean people can't suggest it.
Going and editing the OP to clarify some things and add more information.
Edit: I have included more ideas in the thread, and am going to draft a FAQ section next.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
although i am fully in favor of adding guns, i like to look at things from all perspectives.
Pros:
*Adding variety to the spice of death.
*Gives more to create and work for
*Well, guns are awesome
*gives more ranged weaponry than just a bow and arrow
Cons:
*Trolling?
*Hassle to maintain
*Possibly violent for the youngsters?
* Unnecessary
*Lag?
Current View:
I'm still in favor of adding guns, but if you have anymore good reasons to add for the cons, then please post, and be reasonable about them. i'm sure you noticed the question marks, but they are there because i'm unsure if they would even be a problem. but i hope we can find out.
*Trolling? How does one troll by shooting someone?
*Hassle to maintain Could you explain this, please?
*Possibly violent for the youngsters? A gun seems no less violent than our old pal, TNT.
* Unnecessary The problem with this argument is that every suggestion could be deemed unnecessary
*Lag? I don't think a new weapon would change much, lag-wise
Responses are underlined
I do support the idea of a gun in Minecraft,, but there are a few things I do not want
I don't want a better bow, a reskinned bow, a sniper, or a machine gun.
What I want is a mid-range heavy hitter, and preferably the bow to have a bit of a longer range, but that's for another thread
Nope I would want more like medieval weapon type things as in
Portable cannons
Crossbow
Duel wielding
Wip(You could retexture a fishing pole xD)
Explosive vest(Is that medievaly I mean you could use flint and steal to light it)
I mean I don't guns would really fit at all in minecraft I think it should stay sorta MedievalishOh and A magic staff
Can you give a reasonable argument for the cons? All of them are invalid.
Cons (revised):
*They would be a hassle to maintain (assuming the gun is realistic in a sense of "homemade" weaponry)
*All ammo would have to be created, not found (unless you find treasure, or a new mob is created)
*They are not traditional to Minecraft
sorry, but that's all i can come up with. if you can come with any good ones, then please let us know
0000 - Top of Page
0001 - Contents
0002 - Introduction
0003 - FAQ/FUA
0004 - Poster Suggestions
Due to a forum error causing our previous gun megathread to vanish into some kind of black hole, I am remaking the Official Gun Thread here. This will be the official place to post any and all suggestions related to handguns, rifles, machine guns, assault rifles, sniper rifles, crossbows, and anything else similar to that. I'll be managing this thread the best I can from now on. But just to make some things clear:
Regular Guns[/anchor]
Musket: As Suggested by H3L1X
For now, I would suggest adding a simple musket and loader. To reload, you would combine the rifle in your 2x2 crafting grid, place your loader in front of the rifle, an iron pellet above the loader, and gunpowder above the rifle. We can see if this works, and add more if it does. At least give it a chance.
This idea has been added to by Mr_Stevenson:
Okay, here is my idea for a firearm
First things first, we make the bow have longer range
Okay, the musket itself is crafted like so:
And the normal round is made like this:
This creates 4 Musket Cartridges, which would look like these:
Anyway, that would do 5 1/2 hearts or on a crit, 6.
To load the musket, you must hold down right mouse button, which will have an eating/drinking styled animation, but about twice as long. The hammer would move back when this is done
When the musket is loaded, it will be held in a style similar to the charged bow, but with no slowdown.
The musket would be most effective at let's say for now, 18 blocks. Every block over would decrease in damage by 1/2 a heart.
When fired, it would be a hitscan weapon, but would not be perfectly accurate.
It has about 70 durability, but it can be repaired by crafting it with a Flint & Steel
As suggested by Valen, mobs hit by bullets will drop them on death and bullets can be retrieved from blocks
However, these would drop musket balls, which need to be recrafted with paper and gunpowder to fire again
Now, you may have noticed I referred to the Musket Cartridge as a 'normal round'
That's because the musket can use multiple extra forms of ammunition.
The first is Buckshot, which essentially turns the musket into a shotgun:
Shots individually would do less damage, and would only have a 9 block range, halving the normal range.
The Grapeshot cartridge would appear as a fatter version of the Musket Cartridge, with patterned spherical bulges at the front. Due to the abundance of gravel, this recipe will only create 2
This would not be retrievable
The second would be Stone Cartridge, crafted in this way:
Stone cartridges would be more of an emergency round, when iron is low. These do 4 hearts and on a crit, 4 1/2. It would appear similar to the normal round, but with a gray stripe going around the front
I'm not too sure about this one.
The third would be the Magnum Cartridge
Obsidian is, if you do not know, a volcanic glass, which means while it is very sharp, it is also very fragile.
Which makes it perfect for a gun whose ammo isn't retrievable in the first place.
Anyway, this recipe would make 2 Magnum Cartridges, which travel 24 blocks, has (possibly) a tighter spread, and does 8 hearts, and on a crit, 8 1/2 of damage
This would also not be retrievable
But how would you fire different rounds?
Glad you asked, imaginary reader.
Crafting a musket and a round will convert it to only fire that type of round. (You will get the round back)
For example, if I had just used up all my Grapeshot, I could put the Grapeshot Musket into the 2x crafting grid with my normal cartridges and turn it back into a normal Musket, and vice versa
This idea has been added to by lolpierandom:
Anyways, I was thinking that muskets, as they used to be, need to be high maintanence. Perhaps 100 uses max, and adding a flint(assuming flintlocks) would restore 15, adding a new bayonet would restore x, etc.
The important thing, in my opinion, is that making ammunition is balanced. If it's easier to get than a bow, than noone will use a bow. If it's too hard to get, then no one will use muskets because they'd be too costly to use.
Perhaps 4 iron shaped in a ball could create 4-8 musket balls? This would then be crafted like so
P M P
P P P
P G P With P being paper, M being a musket ball, and G being gunpowder.
Musket Balls would be retrievable upon a dead enemy, but would be retrieved as dirty musket balls. 8 dirty musket balls surrounding a bucket of water(which would be returned, like milk buckets in cake) creates 8 new musket balls.
Because let's be honest. Muskets aren't particularly reliable at the best of times, so how will ramming balls covered in grime and blood help?
Crossbow: As Suggested by GUMMANDO (Link to original thread)
Crossbows
Crossbows would improve the variety of Minecraft's ranged arsenal. They would work by drawing back to load (taking about 5 seconds), clicking and holding down the right mouse button to aim (perhaps with sights?) and release to fire. These wouldn't be used for short distance engagements, mostly for sniping because of there long reload time. The ammunition they would use are called bolts. They are visually smaller and wider than arrows, and are crafted with iron instead of flint.
Max stack (crossbow)=1
Max stack (bolts)=32
If that was not clear enough, here is how they fire:
1.You start unloaded (after you craft the item).
2.To reload, hold down the right mouse button for around 5 seconds.
Now you are loaded and ready to fire.
3.To aim after loading, hold down the right mouse button again. This will make your shot far more accurate at long distances.
4.Release once you are on target and ready to shoot. This is how you fire.
NOTE: You will not be able to move at all when reloading.
Crossbow types:
Wood Crossbow: These would be the first tier, constructed of a bow, a one gold ingot, one redstone dust, three string, two wood planks and a stick. It would do 6 hearts of damage (one more heart than the bow), and have a increase in range (over a bow). As a special feature, they would be faster to reload.
Iron Crossbow: Second tier, constructed of a wooden crossbow, five iron ingots, one gold ingot, one redstone dust, and two panes of glass. It would do 7.5 hearts of damage (2.5 hearts more than the bow) and have much more range than the normal bow. As a special feature it would have a scope to allow zooming in (x4) when you are are about to fire. The scope wouldn't black out the rest of the screen like it does in FPS games, it would just make everything outside of the scope normal. Much like the Killing Floor Crossbow.
Gold Crossbow: The gold crossbow is a different crossbow entirely, depending on enchantments for its power. It is built with five gold ingots, three string, and some redstone dust. It would only have a slight increase in range over the normal bow and 5 hearts of damage (5 is the bow's maximum damage without enchantments). As a special feature, it will have many more enchantments over the other crossbows to compensate for it's lack of range and power over the other crossbows.. Some of the higher level enchantments include rapid-fire (not meaning automatic), explosive arrows, and aim assist.
In addition, all projectiles fired by crossbow will have greater velocity than those from a bow. This is how they will achieve greater range.
Flintlock Pistol: As Suggested by geoninja
I wouldn't mind a flintlock pistol that has a extremely limited life span making bows better for overall combat making it so that the flintlock could be overpowered but have draw backs and could make a major drain on sulfur and on iron making so that people couldn't easily spam with it on survival.
Percussion Cap Rifle: As Suggested by Sting_Auer
In my opinion, some of the first percussion cap, breech-loading rifles would be balanced and make sense. They were long-ranged, accurate, extremely powerful, but took up to 15 seconds to reload, and were more expensive than a bow or crossbow.
Bullets could be made with this recipe:
redstone-gunpowder-iron ingot.
That would give you 4 bullets. To fire once, you need to craft the gun with a bullet in your 2x2 crafting grid. The projectile would be very, very fast, have almost no arc, and do 6 hearts of damage to an unarmored opponent.
Here's a picture of one of the first percussion caps:
As you can see, it is extremely primitive compared to modern firearms. It was really nothing more than a flintlock with the ignition stored inside the bullet. The hammer strikes the little cylinder sticking out, and that makes a little spark inside the gun that ignites the gunpowder.
Chu Ko Nu (Repeating Crossbow): As Suggested by Morshu9000
How about the Chu Ko Nu, the Chinese Repeating Crossbow? It could basically be the old bow: faster fire rate but shorter range and less damage. That's pretty true to what it is in real life.
Splash Potion Cannon: As Suggested by JakeTehDracomancer
I believe that if Minecraft is going to involve any from of firearm, I believe they should start with some sort of Magical Gun. What I'm thinking is a Splash Potion Cannon.
Crafted like so;
I. Ingot / I. Ingot / I. Ingot
I. Ingot / G. Powder / Awkward Splash Potion
I. Ingot / I. Ingot / Leather
The Splash Potion Cannon, after crafted, is empty. You must then craft it with any Splash Potion to load it with that particular Potion. The Splash Potion Cannon simply firs Splahs Potions at an extremely long range, amking it a deadly weapon when loaded with a Splash Poison. It can be crafted with stacks of potions, or with multiple stacks, to load it with more than one shot.
I hate arrows filling up my inventory. I suggest that there should definiteley be quivers. Maybe press a key or something and you put the quiver on, I don't know.
Bow and arrows are least effective in close encounters, such as in caves which is because they require to be drawn back, and does not have a way to deal melee damage, so you always have to carry a sword. When it comes to guns, it doesn't mean it has have to be more OP than the bow, it can be a different style of fighting.
A musket and bayonet DOES NOT have to be drawn back like a bow, you just press a trigger for instantaneous fire. At the same time you can melee. The only downfall is like the realistic counterpart in real life, where it consumes gunpowder and iron for each shot, since they serve as bullets and propellers. They also take very long time to reload. If you know muskets in real life, the reloading is actually a series of steps. So primarily, it would be useful as a melee weapon, and only fire when you NEED to fire, such as a creeper being next to you.
The shot fires as soon as you click the mouse, and the damage of the shot does 2x more damage than a bow, and has 2x the knockback of a bow. Then you will have to reload it, where the reloading time is 4 times as long as drawing back the bow to its maximum extent, to shoot again, but you can use the melee musket bayonet to jab the creeper to death after it has been knocked back considerably far, without having to reload. So muskets are good for close encounters.
You don't have to reload to use the bayonet, so once you knock back a creeper with your shot, you can jab it with the range on the bayonet, without having to reload yet. You can reload after you killed the creeper.
Bayonets will have 1 more range than your sword, because muskets designs are long, but does less damage than a sword. Musket bullets will be LESS affected by gravity per distance traveled because of higher projectile speed.
Musket bullets can be retrieved as iron bullets stuck on the ground, unless it hits the mob or goes off too far away. Gunpowder is consumed, however because it is ignited to propel the iron bullet.
Style 1: Use sword and bow
Advantages:
-Cheaper to make
-Because it is cheaper than the musket-bayonet, it is best for grinding mobs.
Disadvantages
-Swords and bows don't stack with another, so takes up more space.
-Need to search inventory for bow or sword to switch between melee and bow.
Style 2: Use musket and bayonet.
Advantages:
-Requires less inventory space than sword and bow, because bayonets are attached to the musket.
-Can change between melee and range very fast with left mouse(jabs bayonet) or right mouse(shoots bullet).
-With more room, you can have one more stack of cobblestone in your inventory during mining, so this style is especially suited for combat during mining.
Disadvantages:
-Bullets require iron and gunpowder.
The Bayonet:
The bayonet can be made of wood, stone, iron or diamond. You can attach to a musket by combining the bayonet with the musket on a crafting table.
The bayonet will break after a certain amount of uses with it attached to the musket. You can repair the musket with a new bayonet by combing the musket with a new bayonet at the crafting table.
If your rifle has its bayonet broken during combat, your melee mode switches to rifle butting, which is still the left click of the mouse just like left clicking to attack with bayonet. This is until you get a new bayonet.
Bayonets have longer usage times because it is smaller than the sword, which makes it more compact.
The musket:
The musket has its own different life, or the amount of uses. The green use bar for musket is on the bottom of the musket and bayonet icon, and the bayonet life bar is on the top of the musket and bayonet item icon.
The musket barrel can ONLY be made of iron or diamond. Diamond muskets have longer life spans, as opposed to iron.
Each fire and rifle butt using your musket depletes the musket life bar.
You make pellet and propellant by combining iron ingots and gunpowder in your crafting table. The icon is a picture of iron pellets and gunpowder. Having this items in your inventory is required to fire a musket.
There are two settings on muskets. You can fire single bullets or multiple bullets. Multiple bullet mode does splash or area of effect damage, but less damage than the single shot mode, which as the name implies shoots one iron bullet.
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Generally:
-Gives you a reason to grind on creepers.
-Damage output of both styles on average should be the same, but the styles are useful for different occasions.
Who doesn't like more fighting styles? Sword and bow gets boring after a while.
What also makes using musket and bayonets cool is that there should be sound effects, that happens when reloading as well as when firing, such as clinking noises. The musket will disappear off-screen to be reloaded, and you can hear the process of reloading, which takes 4 times as long as fully drawing back a bow.
Conclusion:
We get a new fighting style without having to resort to magic attacks.
You combine:
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc + 16 potion of poison = 64 poisoned shots.
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc +16 potion of strength = 64 power shots.
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc + 16 potions of slowness = 64 crippling shots (slows enemies).
And a new alchemy potion: The Flameburst Potion:
You make flame burstpotion combining potion of poison with blaze powder. Flame burst potion sets anything on fire around the area you threw the potion.
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc +16 flameburst potions = 64 flameburst shots, which sets enemies on fire when you shoot them.
More alchemy ideas may be added.
Specifically what this means is that, when drawing back a bow or loading a firearm (or spinning a sling, or what-have-you) taking damage (or perhaps only knockback) would have at least a chance of causing you to loose the shot, representing fumbling the weapon. That would give players a reason not to rely on ranged weapons at close range, since an opponent could prevent them from attacking simply by keeping the pressure on. Where firearms would get an advantage is that they can be loaded in advance, whereas a bow has to be held. Thus the bow is susceptible to interruption at all times, while a gun can only be interrupted for a few seconds between shots. Where does this tie into guerilla warfare? A skilled musketeer could take advantage of the fact to disrupt his bow-wielding opponent before they can shoot, while they could not do the same to him. Yes, a player could learn to compensate, and to take advantage of the bow's shorter draw time, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It simply means that the gun would not be overpowered in comparison to the bow, simply removing several drawbacks that a skilled player can also manually adjust for, but might find it more convenient not to have to.
With obsidian being part of the barrel, this makes the cannon fairly costly. When placed it faces away from you, and when right clicked it opens up a box with two slots, one for ammo (gunpowder), and the other for cannonballs. Cannonballs are just smoothstone blocks, the cost of gunpowder and obsidian is enough to make the cannon a rarely used tool.
When activated by redstone or a spark, it will immediately fire out a cannonball, which deals a large amount of damage to creatures within X many blocks in front of it before exploding in a small detonation if it hasn't already hit something. I am uncertain with damage values but I believe creepers are an explosion of "3" so the cannonball should be explosion of 1 or 2. The large damage makes it suitable for killing mobs in one hit. The limited amount of gunpowder makes it difficult to fire constantly. After firing, it has a 5 second cooldown before it can fire again as the cannon reloads. Alternatively, make it require manual loading of a new piece of gunpowder and cannonball each time, though this excludes redstone utility.
As an addition, add a cannon to a minecart for a railway gun. It is the same thing, but quite a bit more mobile.
Rocket Launcher: As Suggested by megav365
I say a big stupid(I tend to add the word stupid when I'm talking about something big) rocket launcher.
XXX
OOO
XXX
The X's are Obsidian, and the O's are gunpowder or something. The launchers have some range, and has 1 and a half more than the tnt explosion. I think it would be good to get revenge against creepers, and would help a lot with the Enderdragon. Just not when fighting something next to your home
Redstone Disruptor: As suggested by AnonTheMouse
Since nothing has been suggested for the "Crazy Ridiculous Awesomefrickentastical Guns" category, and because my ego causes me to think I can make anything feasible, I've decided to suggest something a little (read "a lot") off the wall. Call it the 'Redstone Disruptor'.
Disruptor Recipe:
This would produce a pistol-like weapon, similar in appearance to a retro-style raygun. Like a bow or gun, it uses ammo, thought of a slightly different variety, in keeping with the unique mechanics I will explain below. Said ammo is crafted as follows:
Ammo Recipe:
This would be a shapeless recipe, but only produce one "Disruptor Pellet", the ammunition for the Redstone Disruptor. It would resemble a shimmering blue-green orb.
The disruptor would have a range only 2/3 that of the bow, with equal velocity. The shots would not arc, however, the Disruptor itself would only have 100 shots of durability. The projectiles themselves would have a glow effect, making them highly visible, even in the dark. At maximum range, or upon striking something, the projectile would simply vanish, making a particle effect like an Enderman's teleport. The shot itself would do only minor damage (1.5 hearts) and the gun would have a "cooldown" period roughly equal to a bow's drawback, possibly represented by a blinking light on the top of the Disruptor. However, when hit, a mob or player would appear to teleport, vanishing in the same manner as an Enderman, only to re-appear in the same spot a moment (one second or less) later. For a player, they wouldn't actually go anywhere, but for that period, their screen would get a teleportation "ripple effect" and their controls would be disabled, meanwhile, the game would temporarily not display their avatar nor give them collision. Thus, the purpose of this weapon is not to deal damage, but rather as the name implies to disrupt enemy tactics, providing an opening to either flee or change the tide of battle.
This idea is certainly silly. However, I have done what I can to make it not unbalancing. Please tell me how well I have succeeded. Hopefully, this can provide a benchmark for the most "out there" an idea should be...at least, if I have done a proper job of it.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
I think that the only way for guns to be implemented well is by making sure they're not just a stronger bow.
Consider team fortress 2. Every alternative gun is always balanced around the starting weapon(in this case, the bow). No weapon in the game is explicitly better,but they excell in different situations.
And maybe the BLUNDERBUSS has HIGH DAMAGE but PITIFUL RANGE AND EXTREMELY SLOW FIRING.
I don't think we need MACHINE GUNS AND SNIPER RIFLES, But pirate or cowboy era firearms could fit well considering they're fairly old...
One thing I always thought fitting is actually the Cannon rather than a handheld gun projectile. The cannon fills the purpose of an arrow dispenser, mob slaying, and partly fills the roll of TNT since it destroys weak blocks.
One request is that you be sure that when designing guns you don't step on the toes of bows. This is difficult since they fulfill similar goals (damage at range) so it should be unique enough to justify itself over bows. Also consider what the implications become in a PvP setting or with griefers.
(4/24/2012): Types of pellets added, and new alchemy.
(4/22/2012): Interruption of ranged weapons, see below.
(4/21/2012): Musket butting at range of 2x>range>0x, where x is the range of the sword. 2x is the only effective range of bayonet. Read suggestion for full specifications. Also decreased approximate reloading time of muskets.
(4/20/2012): Bayonet melee specified further below.
(4/19/2012): Added alchemy as power ups for ammunitions.
(4/18/2012): Added new things
Some ideas for guns, but should not be considered the ultimate solution:
I am advocating muskets as a different style of combat.
Why should gun be added instead of any other weapon? Well what other infantry weapon can you add that existed around the same time that the bow was massively used as a range weapon? Crossbow comes to mind, but that is too similar to the bow. What other candidate than the gun for a more different combat style?
Napoleon had greater firing power, greater numbers, and thus greater rates of fire. But when he tried to invade Spain, as I recall, guerilla militia of Spain, units armed with muskets or some other weaponry, inflicted heavier casualties upon Napoleon through guerilla warfare. Same thing happened in the Vietnam war, although casualties might be different. I am using history, as basis for the guerilla warfare style of musket and bayonet, which although slow, as proven in history, can still be fatal when one uses it tactically.
Throughout history, the most different ranged infantry weapon, from the bow, around the medieval era (circa 500 A.C.E to 1500 A.C.E)was the gun, which was not used widely. So it makes sense, that a different weapon style should be of the gun. No other infantry weapon existed, that was different from the bow beyond that of a crossbow (I am not saying crossbows should not be added).
There is a reason why bows and guns exist in the real world, which is because of their different uses.
Bow and arrows are least effective in close encounters, such as in caves which is because they require to be drawn back, and does not have a way to deal melee damage, so you always have to carry a sword. When it comes to guns, it doesn't mean it has have to be more OP than the bow, it can be a different style of fighting.
I will also be using x as the range of the sword or knock back rates relative to another item, and any multiple of x are only suggested magnitudes and not strictly imposed as the ultimate outcome of the musket and bayonet, because this is up to the person who writes the algorithms for mine craft.
Styles of Fighting:
Style 1: Use sword and bow
Advantages:
-Cheaper to make
-Because it is cheaper than the musket-bayonet, it is best for grinding mobs.
-Most suitable for open terrain combat, e.g, plains and deserts.
Disadvantages
-Swords and bows don't stack with another, so takes up more space.
-Need to search inventory for bow or sword to switch between melee and bow.
Style 2: Use musket and bayonet.
Advantages:
-Requires less inventory space than sword and bow, because bayonets are attached to the musket.
-Can change between melee and range very fast with left mouse(jabs bayonet) or right mouse(shoots bullet).
-With more room, you can have one more stack of cobblestone in your inventory during mining, so this style is especially suited for combat during mining.
-Most suitable for non-open terrain combat, e.g., forests and narrow caves.
Disadvantages:
-Bullets require iron and gunpowder.
Interruption Mechanics(First suggested by AnonTheMouse):
A player using a ranged weapon can be interrupted based on the amount of damage done. The higher the damage, the greater the chance of interruption. Interruption causes the ranged weapon to go back to before-drawn-mode for bow, so as to have to draw the bow again. For muskets, if a musketeer is interrupted during reload, then the musketeer has to reload again.
Because bows fire faster than muskets, it seems unfair because bows can continuously interrupt musketeers trying to reload on open terrain combat, and leaving the musketeer almost no chance to reload. To balance this, interruption would then be based off of damage dealt from a single attack, where the higher the damage, the higher the chance of interruption. Since muskets do 2x the damage of bows, they have a higher chance of interruption per shot, but because bows can deal more attacks per time, they get chances to interrupt based on number of shots, while muskets get to interrupt based on attack power of shots. This allows both combat styles to have a chance on any terrain, even the ones where they are at a disadvantage.
Furthermore, melee weapons will always (100%) interrupt ranged drawing of bow or reloading of musket.
The Bayonet:
You don't have to reload to use the bayonet, so once you knock back a creeper with your shot, you can jab it with the range on the bayonet, without having to reload yet. You can reload after you killed the creeper.
Bayonets will have 2x the range of the sword, because muskets designs are long, but does less damage than a sword.
The bayonet can be made of wood, stone, iron or diamond. You can attach to a musket by combining the bayonet with the musket on a crafting table.
The bayonet will break after a certain amount of uses with it attached to the musket. You can repair the musket with a new bayonet by combing the musket with a new bayonet at the crafting table.
If your rifle has its bayonet broken during combat, your melee mode switches to rifle butting, which is still the left click of the mouse just like left clicking to attack with bayonet. This is until you get a new bayonet.
Bayonets have longer usage times because it is smaller than the sword, which makes it more compact.
The bayonet does 0.5 the knock back distance of a sword. Sword will not be useless because it does more damage. During PVP, If you can hide behind an obstacle, such that people cannot attack through walls, you effectively have the higher dps when you fight around obstacles. Imagine yourself in a cave, 2x distance of bayonet is useless if the person being hit is against a wall, so that person using a sword can kill the guy who is using a bayonet due to higher dps.
Further more, a bayonet can only hit players or mobs 2 blocks away from them. If a mob or player is within 0x<range<2x where x is the range of sword, or if the mob or player is at a range>2x, then the bayonet won't be able to hit the player or mob. The bayonet only hits mobs or players at a block distance of range equal to 2x the sword. So it takes some skill to use a bayonet.
Had I removed the range requirement of bayonet to be exactly at 2x of the sword, then no sword user can ever have a chance against bayonet users. I have argued with someone about this matter. I conceded that this would be unfair to sword users, so I constraint bayonet range to be at 2x of sword. With the use of musket butting in 2x>range>0x, sword users have a chance to do 4x the damage done by musket butts during an exchange of hits at close range. If bayonets worked on 2x>range>0x, sword users cannot have a chance to out damage bayonets, because they would be constantly knocked back. But, through skillful maneuver, when the sword user was to come below 2x range of bayonet, the sword user can hit the bayonet user, dealing 2x the damage of bayonets or 4x damage of musket butt to ensure sword users a chance to out damage bayonets using skill. Then in that range, the musket butting comes in, that is if the sword user ever closed in the range on the first place to deal 2x damage of bayonet, or 4x damage of musket butting. This is also because bayonets are supposed to be doing 0.5x damage of sword, and to decrease that damage to compensate for sword users, I put musket butting as attack that does 0.25x of sword at 2x>range>0x. This also adds more features and animations to minecraft.
Musket Butting:
At a range of 2x>range>0x, where bayonet is ineffective, musket butting would automatically used as melee. Musket butting would also occur when you do not have a bayonet attached at a range of 2x. Butting does 0.25x the damage of the sword, but does the 1x the knock back of the sword. If you move back and rifle butt at the same time, you would be approximately at a range far enough to damage the opponent with bayonet. Then the opponent would be forced to use a bow, so now the musket man hides to reload.
The musket:
Musket bullets will be LESS affected by gravity per distance traveled because of higher projectile speed.
Musket bullets can be retrieved as iron bullets stuck on the ground, unless it hits the mob or goes off too far away. Gunpowder is still consumed because it is ignited to propel the iron bullet. After the mob dies, they drop your iron bullets you shot them with, because iron is not renewable and uncommon, unlike flint, wood and feather, which are all renewable for arrows of bow.
A musket and bayonet DOES NOT have to be drawn back like a bow, you just press a trigger for instantaneous fire. At the same time you can melee. The only downfall is like the realistic counterpart in real life, where it consumes gunpowder and iron for each shot, since they serve as bullets and propellers. They also take very long time to reload. If you know muskets in real life, the reloading is actually a series of steps. So primarily, it would be useful as a melee weapon, and only fire when you NEED to fire, such as a creeper being next to you.
The shot fires as soon as you click the mouse, and the damage of the shot does 2x more damage than a bow, and has 2x the knockback of a bow. Then you will have to reload it, where the reloading time is 3x as long as drawing back the bow to its maximum extent, to shoot again, but you can use the melee musket bayonet to jab the creeper to death after it has been knocked back considerably far, without having to reload. So muskets are good for close encounters.
The musket has its own different life, or the amount of uses. The green use bar for musket is on the bottom of the musket and bayonet icon, and the bayonet life bar is on the top of the musket and bayonet item icon.
The musket barrel can ONLY be made of iron or diamond. Diamond muskets have longer life spans, as opposed to iron.
Each fire and rifle butt using your musket depletes the musket life bar.
You make pellet and propellant by combining iron ingots and gunpowder in your crafting table. The icon is a picture of iron pellets and gunpowder. Having this items in your inventory is required to fire a musket.
There are two settings on muskets. You can fire single bullets or multiple bullets. Multiple bullet mode does splash or area of effect damage, but less damage than the single shot mode, which as the name implies shoots one iron bullet.
Bullets
There are a few types of bullets you can make. Keep in mind that all bullets shot can be recollected after the mob is killed (except for wooden bullets), in which case the mob drops the bullets you shot it with.
-Wooden pellets: Does no damage, but sets enemy on fire. Made from wood. Is not recollectable.
The wooden bullet does no damage, but it does set the enemy on fire. It will also set the ground on fire, but the fire is small and won't spread. The light effect is the same as the light from the torch. You can use this bullet to shoot at dark areas far away from you to see what is there. This is like a flare, but made of wood. The fire burns out after some time. You can use this to explore deep ravine if you cannot use lava, which requires buckets and cannot stack.
Or if you caught at night in the ocean and it is too dark to see. You can try to see if land is in front of you by shooting your wooden bullet, such as to avoid crashes.
The bullet being made of wood and is burnt, is thus non-recollectable after being shot. This is okay because wood is renewable.
-Stone pellets: Does half the damage of iron bullets. Made from cobblestone.
-Iron pellets: 2x the damage of a bow: Made from iron.
-Exploding pellets: Does 3x damage of a bow, and explodes like a mini-TNT, but does not destroy blocks. Made from combining iron pellets with gunpowder. Gunpowder is used up after firing.
-Diamond pellet: Does 2x the damage of a bow, just like iron, but passes through multiple targets to a maximum of 5, doing knock back to all of the mobs it passes through. Made from diamond. If there are no more mobs to receive the shot, then the bullet will eventually hit the ground and get stuck there for you to pick it back up. KEEP IN MIND: If you shoot a player, and the player escapes, you cannot get your diamond bullet back.
Diamond bullets do the same damage as iron bullets. Diamond bullets can hit an ender dragon 5 times per shot, due to the ender dragon's size. This means greater damage against bigger mobs.
Diamond pellets stuck on the ground will be conspicuously blue, and will twinkle.
Power Ups
I also have an idea for alchemy. The Bow would be primarily powered up through enchantment, but the gun would be primarily powered up through alchemy.
Alchemy power ups added to wooden bullets only gives the effect, but still no damage. Flameburst potion stacks damage with wooden bullets, in that damage over time from fire is increased.
All alchemical power ups are stackable with the piercing multi-shot effect of diamond bullets.
You combine:
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc + 16 potion of poison = 64 poisoned shots.
-Poisons enemies
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc +16 potion of strength = 64 power shots.
-Extra damage against enemies
-Increased knockback
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc + 16 potions of slowness = 64 crippling shots
-slows enemies
And a new alchemy potion: The Flameburst Potion:
You make flame burstpotion combining potion of poison with blaze powder. Flame burst potion sets anything on fire around the area you threw the potion.
64 regular iron bullets, cartridge, etc +16 flameburst potions = 64 flameburst shots, which sets enemies on fire when you shoot them, as well as do damage of the iron bullet.
Furthermore, the bullets that drops after you killed a mob, is not the alchemical bullet, but the regular iron bullet, as the alchemical effects have been consumed.
And a new alchemy potion: The Explosive Liquid:
Combine flameburst potion with gunpowder. This amplifies the damage of explosive pellets. This effect is also stackable with the piercing multi-shot effect of diamond bullets.
For explosive diamond pellets, it would pass through multiple targets, each hit causing a small explosion that does not destroy blocks. If there are no mobs to receive a hit, then the pellet hits the ground, which causes another explosion.
More alchemy ideas may be added.
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Generally:
-Gives you a reason to grind on creepers.
-Damage output of both styles on average should be the same, but the styles are useful for different occasions.
Who doesn't like more fighting styles? Sword and bow gets boring after a while.
What also makes using musket and bayonets cool is that there should be sound effects, that happens when reloading as well as when firing, such as clinking noises. The musket will disappear off-screen to be reloaded, and you can hear the process of reloading, which takes 4 times as long as fully drawing back a bow.
Conclusion:
We get a new fighting style without having to resort to magic attacks.
If you don't like musket style, use your lame-same sword and bow. See how much fun it is to use it forever.
Are we really to discriminate against the use of guns because its propellant is a different type of chemical reaction than the bow? The bow just uses biological energy as its propellant, while the gun uses gunpowder, WHICH MINECRAFT HAS AND TNTS TOO.
So, perhaps rather than forbidding anti-gun talk altogether, it would be more politic to merely forbid non-constructive posts (such as those of the "Guns? NO!" variety) while still permitting those who have a valid and well-constructed argument to voice their opinion. To facilitate and streamline this, perhaps the OP could be modified to include a "Frequently Raised Arguments (F.R.A.)" section to cover the most often voiced reasoning from both sides to avoid redundancy. Ideally with notation where an argument has already been unequivocally disproved or countered, such as noting the historical inaccuracy of the common "guns are too modern" argument.
@Abrogation: I agree totally. In fact, even the Revolver might be a bit too advanced. While there are certainly some advanced and complicated devices able to be made in Minecraft, the old adage goes "less is more". Which in this case I typically take to mean "with limited resources and means of production, you will tend to produce the simplest form of an item for your task". Some could take that to mean you would stop at bows for your ranged projectile, I suppose, but assuming the skill and resources and understanding to produce firearms (which we have every reason to assume Steve possesses) I assume that anyone who knew how they worked would eventually make one for the sake of convenience. It's just that they would likely do so in a very basic form. Conveniently, this also fits well with Minecraft's visual style, where things tend toward simple construction.
@Drunkenp0wNeR: I like the idea of a blunderbuss. I have always assumed, though, that it would shoot gravel, as that is the easiest way to get something like buckshot. I suppose the result would be a limited range area weapon with damage that fluctuates wildly (represented by damage as an X-Y range rather than a fixed value, which decreases both values with distance until both become 1/2).
If you take out those who argue using the single syllable argument, "no", against the use of guns. That takes care of about 80% of the community against guns.
The rest, or those who don't use the single syllable argument will tend to argue against guns because of peer pressure from the 80% of those who use the single syllable argument ("no"). Or, they don't know how simple early guns really are, so they attribute the workings of a gun to that of "magic", and paradoxically, they would accept non-existent full-time magical abilities such as telekinetic punches and invisibility over existing technological ingenuity of guns, which really is no magic at all!
Yes the revolver is too advanced for minecraft, it feels. I know how a revolver works, it requires fine precision tools that requires machines to make, such as springs and tiny hammering systems to ignite the gunpowder stored within bullets. Not to mention revolver bullets casings are aerodynamically designed and manufactured, which does not fit minecraft's survival theme. Bayonet and musket on the other hand can be made by hand because of the simple mechanisms, and since early guns can be found as early as around 1000 A.C.E (A.D.) in China, which is in the middle of the Medieval ages for Europe (medieval ages ranges from circa 500-1500 A.C.E).
Bullets could be made with this recipe:
redstone-gunpowder-iron ingot.
That would give you 4 bullets. To fire once, you need to craft the gun with a bullet in your 2x2 crafting grid. The projectile would be very, very fast, have almost no arc, and do 6 hearts of damage to an unarmored opponent.
Here's a picture of one of the first percussion caps:
As you can see, it is extremely primitive compared to modern firearms. It was really nothing more than a flintlock with the ignition stored inside the bullet. The hammer strikes the little cylinder sticking out, and that makes a little spark inside the gun that ignites the gunpowder.
As to repeating firearms, there are probably some designs that would be suitable. The Da Vinci "fan gun" comes to mind, for instance. However, feasible or not, I think that such weapons should probably be avoided in Minecraft. It's not that they would be logically inconsistent, but more of a balance issue. Any weapon that is consistently good in every situation detracts from all other weapons. With higher tiers, this makes sense. With ranged weapons, less so. Up close weapons should be the clear choice for close targets, and ranged weapons the clear choice for distant ones. So making certain there is a delay (ideally significantly longer than it takes to swing a sword) between shots is vital to preserving balance.
@Sting_Auer: The idea of redstone to make percussion caps is an interesting one. In previous threads, I've added an experience cost to the recipe, or made firearms essentially the same as bows but specialised to different targets. While adding redstone to the recipe isn't a new idea, I don't think I've heard the idea of making it pat of the ammunition before. Given the difficulty in obtaining redstone, and the quantity that would be needed if it were used to make bullets, this might actually demonstrate an acceptable balance for firearms as higher-tier ranged weapons.
It appears I misspoke. What you said is basically what I meant. You are more than welcome to say why you dislike the thought of guns or why one gun should be in and why one should not. But any posts following the lines of, as you said: "Guns? NO!" will be treated as what they are, spam.
Also, as for people saying some guns may be too advanced, I agree entirely. However, that hasn't stopped them from being suggested in the past and won't in the future. I sincerely doubt Jeb is going to be adding in an AT-4 Rocket Launcher with optional laser designation anytime soon, but that doesn't mean people can't suggest it.
Going and editing the OP to clarify some things and add more information.
Edit: I have included more ideas in the thread, and am going to draft a FAQ section next.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Pros:
*Adding variety to the spice of death.
*Gives more to create and work for
*Well, guns are awesome
*gives more ranged weaponry than just a bow and arrow
Cons:
*Trolling?
*Hassle to maintain
*Possibly violent for the youngsters?
* Unnecessary
*Lag?
Current View:
I'm still in favor of adding guns, but if you have anymore good reasons to add for the cons, then please post, and be reasonable about them. i'm sure you noticed the question marks, but they are there because i'm unsure if they would even be a problem. but i hope we can find out.
Responses are underlined
I do support the idea of a gun in Minecraft,, but there are a few things I do not want
I don't want a better bow, a reskinned bow, a sniper, or a machine gun.
What I want is a mid-range heavy hitter, and preferably the bow to have a bit of a longer range, but that's for another thread
Can you give a reasonable argument for the cons? All of them are invalid.
Portable cannons
Crossbow
Duel wielding
Wip(You could retexture a fishing pole xD)
Explosive vest(Is that medievaly I mean you could use flint and steal to light it)
I mean I don't guns would really fit at all in minecraft I think it should stay sorta MedievalishOh and A magic staff
*They would be a hassle to maintain (assuming the gun is realistic in a sense of "homemade" weaponry)
*All ammo would have to be created, not found (unless you find treasure, or a new mob is created)
*They are not traditional to Minecraft
sorry, but that's all i can come up with. if you can come with any good ones, then please let us know