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Interview with Jeb - Mod API & More


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#81

anonym927

Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:56 PM

Speaking as a mod-developer I am relatively scared of what is coming to us. Getting the Mod-API has a potential of killing the current well-designed Community-APIs, like Modloader and MCP.
The development of a local server for running Singleplayer is from my point of view a terrible Idea either: Many great Mods were initially invented because of the easy client-side Programming. Now every modder with a new idea will have to invent a Client-Server Architecture even for the the very basic of his Mod.
If we already get a modding-API, they could at least distribute some Development-Prerelease Code so we can slowly get toward the API and make our mods compatible to it. It would also allow us to have all of our Mods compatible available just at Release Date.
Another Thing: The Repository for Mods. A simple solution would be to have the User choose his Repository. This is relatively unimportant, since if it doesnt get implemented a mod will be invented to fit this functionality.
I am not quite sure if i got everything correctly, but hopefully you roughly understand how I feel about this.

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#82

Advize
    Advize

    Void Walker

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  • Minecraft: Advize

Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:55 PM

As much as I love jeb, he gives a terrible interview. Curse could have done a better job getting information out of him as well. This didn't reveal anything we didn't already know.

#83

alexanderpas

Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:24 AM

[quote name='anonym927' timestamp='1331938575' post='13536153']
Speaking as a mod-developer I am relatively scared of what is coming to us. Getting the Mod-API has a potential of killing the current well-designed Community-APIs, like Modloader and MCP.
The development of a local server for running Singleplayer is from my point of view a terrible Idea either: Many great Mods were initially invented because of the easy client-side Programming. Now every modder with a new idea will have to invent a Client-Server Architecture even for the the very basic of his Mod.[/quote]

No need to invent that, the basics are already implemented in the form of Plugin channels.

http://dinnerbone.com/blog/2012/01/13/faq-about-plugin-channels/
SMP didn't work in Alpha? THAT'S WHAT YOU PAID FOR! (still, no excuse for 1.6 Beta)

#84

anonym927

Posted 17 March 2012 - 03:41 AM

[quote name='alexanderpas' timestamp='1331943897' post='13538263']
No need to invent that, the basics are already implemented in the form of Plugin channels.

[url="http://dinnerbone.com/blog/2012/01/13/faq-about-plugin-channels/"]http://dinnerbone.co...lugin-channels/[/url]
[/quote]

As far as I understood what Plugin Channels do, the Client-Server Architecture still needs to be invented! The only thing thats different is that Servers dont Crash Clients due to Bad-Packet-ID. The Modder needs to write Servercontent somehow on a Stream which then can be read on the Client and vice-versa. It is still more complicated, The Architecture needs still to be invented, The Modder cant just code what he wants, he needs Packets!
Also this API-Addition is not really relevant in the Terms of Client-Only Modding like I do, if they want to invent a really useful API they still need to implement some more parts!

#85

HariboTer

Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:39 AM

[quote name='immibis' timestamp='1331896280' post='13524214']
Why has nobody mentioned the fact that modding is now explicitly banned in Mojang's ToS?
[/quote]

Evidence link?

And ... what is the meaning of "ToS"?
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#86

Minecraft4uHosting

Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:49 AM

While this may make extra work for mod developers (sorry devs [img]http://static.minecraftforum.net//public/style_emoticons/default/mobzombie.png[/img] ), at least it will weed out all the poorly coded mods and force a new era or modding to begin. Let's give Mojang a chance to get it right and not be so afraid of change.
Posted Image
Minecraft4u.com - Premium Minecraft Servers - Superior Service & Support, RAMDisk, Amazing Value!

#87

spoofmaker1
  • Minecraft: spoofmaker1

Posted 17 March 2012 - 05:26 PM

about time! they've been talking about adding this for FOREVER. glad they're finally doing it [img]http://static.minecraftforum.net//public/style_emoticons/default/diamond.png[/img]

#88

mask99
    mask99

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 04:03 AM

Dear Jeb,

If your going to be the person that represents Mojang then your should really be more assertive.
Ima Brony. Deal with it... Also, here's a egg.... HOLY SCHNITZEL! It's a dragon! ---> Posted Image

#89

acuddlyheadcrab
  • Minecraft: acuddlyheadcrab

Posted 18 March 2012 - 06:22 PM

I'm exctied for the mod API! They really should have done that from the start.

Posted Image


#90

lilajunkie
  • Location: Germany
  • Minecraft: lilajunkie

Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:03 AM

[quote name='McGarnicle' timestamp='1331930440' post='13532798']
A programmer with no charisma, a host with less, and shot and edited on the iphone.  some videos are harder to watch than others.
[/quote]

[quote name='mask99' timestamp='1332043429' post='13569854']
Dear Jeb,

If your going to be the person that represents Mojang then your should really be more assertive.
[/quote]

Jeesh, why is everyone banging on poor Jeb O_o I actually like the fact that the developers of MC aren't some corporate morons who know more about PR and self-presentation than they do about the game they're coding.

[quote name='Advize' timestamp='1331942111' post='13537548']
As much as I love jeb, he gives a terrible interview. Curse could have done a better job getting information out of him as well. This didn't reveal anything we didn't already know.
[/quote]

Also, it's the interviewer's job to make sure they get good answers out of an interviewee. They need to make him comfortable, ask intelligent questions and appear to know what they're talking about. So what if he isn't super duper Mr. Charisma... he seems like a nice guy [img]http://static.minecraftforum.net//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

#91

King Korihor
  • Location: Logan, Utah, USA

Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:51 PM

[quote name='acuddlyheadcrab' timestamp='1332094954' post='13583347']
I'm exctied for the mod API! They really should have done that from the start.
[/quote]

I don't think so.  The issue is that coming up with an efficient API is not an easy task, and it is something that can can be worse than no API at all if poorly implemented.  For anybody who has used the Win32API for developing applications in Microsoft Windows, you should be familiar with at least more than a few API interfaces that are not just horrible but downright scary.  Don't even get me started on the DirectX API.

Some of what is going to go into the API is trying to figure out what mod developers even want to be working with.  There are (now) some obvious things that people like to make mods for, such as new recipes for existing blocks (including making a recipe for things like a Sponge, Netherbricks, or the new circular stone brick that don't have a recipe at the moment), new kinds of blocks ore and new kinds of armor.  It seems likely that much of the early API features will be plug-ins to this kind of mod development... something already enabled by things like ModLoader very easily.

Then you get into things that go beyond what Mojang might even consider as an API by its very nature has some restrictions on what can and can't be done.  For those who have suggested as such, MCP isn't really an API.  It certainly is a useful tool and I love the work that the MCP guys have been doing, but for those who think you are going to get something like MCP as a modding environment are blowing something up their behind and I don't know what that might be.

What you are going to get is something more like ModLoader+MP & Forge, where the mods are going to be loaded into memory and you simply can't touch the base class behavior except where the hooks have been provided.  Writing inherited classes (of hopefully non-obfuscated methods, members, and parameters) may be possible, but you can't do something like Optifine using the API or put in a behavior like re-writing a Nether generator to be linked to an Overworld generator... unless that hook has been put into the API as well.

Once the API comes out, there will be people complaining about features it is lacking and things they want to get access into the API.  No matter how through and complete the Mojang development team thinks they will make the API, there will always be *something* missing.  The telling thing will be to see how many mod developers even use the official API when it comes out, or if they still will require you to put things into the minecraft.jar file even after the official API comes out.  I promise that changing the minecraft.jar file will continue well after the official API is released... at least for the more advanced mods that truly are ground breaking and doing useful things.

In terms of the development lifecycle of Minecraft, this is about the perfect time to be introducing a proper API.  Enough is known about the game now and the overall philosophy of how the game should be organized is developed to the point that a rational decision on the part of Mojang can be made in terms of what things they wouldn't mind seeing made as community developed add-ons and what things they would rather keep restricted from the modding community.  The official API is going to split the modding community into those who are pushing the envelope and doing really new things, and those who are staying within the constraints of whatever Mojang has published in the API.
Posted Image
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2

#92

King Korihor
  • Location: Logan, Utah, USA

Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:11 PM

[quote name='Minecraft4uHosting' timestamp='1331974155' post='13546570']
While this may make extra work for mod developers (sorry devs [img]http://static.minecraftforum.net//public/style_emoticons/default/mobzombie.png[/img] ), at least it will weed out all the poorly coded mods and force a new era or modding to begin. Let's give Mojang a chance to get it right and not be so afraid of change.
[/quote]

The only way that you are going to "weed out" the "poorly coded mods" is to have somebody go through each mod and review it, putting it through some sort of testing process.  Either that or do something like what Nintendo or the other console manufacturers do and require some very expensive developer license merely to have permission to make a "mod" or develop anything using the API.  If somebody is paying $10k for a developer license, they won't waste their money putting out crap.  That would also kill the modding community if it happened and I believe it is something that will ultimately kill the console games in the long run as well as it stifles creativity.

Face it.... 90% of everything written is junk, and that includes mods.  Even if it is well written, it may not be something you necessarily will like.

Sadly though, I think a proper API is actually going to increase the amount of "junk" in the mod world rather than culling it out.  Recipes which make a full 64 stack of diamond out of a single block of cobblestone are still going to be very common for awhile, as will bedrock extractors and bedrock armor that allows you to go into a room full of exploding Creepers and not take damage.

A clean API might be able to protect you from crashing Minecraft if you have installed a poorly designed mod (even that I have my doubts), but I seriously doubt it is going to increase the quality of the mods you will see.
Posted Image
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2

#93

MarsGodofWar227

Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:22 AM

Ok ive been with minecraft since the beggining, secret friday updates, only a hand full of blocks, and a very ristricted creative world.  And although i hope Jeb is bringing something more to the table then Notch ever had I have very little hope that a closed souce api will be good for minecraft.

#94

Jrjono
    Jrjono

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:12 AM

About time with the mod api though I wont beleive they are doing it till I see it cause they been promosing it for age and it hasnt been happening.

#95

adriansssss

Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:55 PM

we needed this THANKS JEB tell notch i said hi!

#96

rexo12(my ingame name)
  • Location: in front of my computer typing this out.
  • Minecraft: rexo12

Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:27 PM

[quote name='trogdor10' timestamp='1331906809' post='13525859']
i feel as if none of this is really importaint right now

instead of making a ModAPI, why not just do what badspot did for Blockland and make an add on folder that only requires you to drop the mods into the folder and they work.  No risk of incompatibility.

if that is totally impossible, at least in the next update remove the Meta-inf folder from minecraft.jar so we dont have to go through that step.

i bet that would make all our lives easier.
[/quote]
the META-INF folder is there to make sure minecraft works! The only reason we delete it is because modloader has a main() method(i think) if you deleted that folder without modloader then minecraft wouldn't know which class to start at.
Posted Image
Free + Crabs + Ability to trample/suffocate opponents in Cortex Command = Free Bombs.

#97

SkyLord21
  • Location: United States
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:07 PM

[img]http://static.minecraftforum.net//public/style_emoticons/default/I_approve.png[/img]



Indeed I do approve. :D

#98

Qwerty144

Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:09 PM

[quote name='The_Appollyon' timestamp='1331833269' post='13506865']
If we need anything, it's better AI.
[/quote]


[quote name='hugsssss' timestamp='1331841731' post='13509815']
Yays, better AI!  

PS: Beware the ides of March!
[/quote]

It's not an AI at all. It's an API. and AI is artificial intelegence. this is used for things like mobs and/or opponents. An API however, is an Application Programming Interface, meaning an ingame GUI for installing mods, updating them, and things like that.

#99

One_Of_Many_Names
  • Location: In a room not much unlike your own. >:3
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:29 PM

I'm looking forward to the open mod support.
Posted Image Look at my wee one please. :3

#100

Mixinghoney
  • Minecraft: Cptarugo

Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:30 AM

seriously , can't wait.

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