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How do you get villagers to breed?


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#1

630tiger
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:53 PM

So I started a new survival world with the latest snapshot with a seed that has a village right over and through a cave system and next to a jungle. I've moved three of the villagers to a treetop village I'm building, and removed all the doors from the original village so they wouldn't go back. I know they recognize as houses what they're supposed to recognize as houses because they hide in them at night. Trouble is, they're not breeding. I have three houses right now, with three villagers. Is there some villager to house ratio that is needed before they breed? If so, what is it?
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#2

Marfagames

Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:00 PM

For a small village in a range of 40 tiles it's 2houses = 1villager so you need more houses.

for a middle village with a range of around 60-100 tiles it 3houses = 2villager

for a huge village with a range of around 140+ tiles it's infinity.

I have tested it a lot, really a lot. Wiki says it only correct for the small village.
But if you have many houses spread apart a lot then you probably need less houses for more villager.

Tristram has around 30-40 houses a size over 140+ and has around 200-400 villager or more on a daily breeding basis right now. So better don't make your village to big.

Although after breeding the parents will take a short rest, or wait till a new adult is there. With 3 villager you could get them to breed 2 childs, then they will wait till both are grown up and then you could increase it to 3 more children.

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#3

630tiger
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:19 PM

Ok, thanks!
"I realized I just liked making them move."
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#4

sajuuk17
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:43 PM

I'm curious to know the defintition of each village size ? I mean you you say a small village will have half of its houses occupied, but what size are each ? In term of individual houses or maybe total housing size (in blocks) ?

#5

KyoShinda
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostMarfagames, on 25 February 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

For a small village in a range of 40 tiles it's 2houses = 1villager so you need more houses.

for a middle village with a range of around 60-100 tiles it 3houses = 2villager

for a huge village with a range of around 140+ tiles it's infinity.

I have tested it a lot, really a lot. Wiki says it only correct for the small village.
But if you have many houses spread apart a lot then you probably need less houses for more villager.

Tristram has around 30-40 houses a size over 140+ and has around 200-400 villager or more on a daily breeding basis right now. So better don't make your village to big.

Although after breeding the parents will take a short rest, or wait till a new adult is there. With 3 villager you could get them to breed 2 childs, then they will wait till both are grown up and then you could increase it to 3 more children.
Do you say 40 as in 40x40?
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#6

630tiger
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:18 PM

I'm a bit confused by that too. Do those numbers mean how many floor/roof/door blocks are placed?

Actually, I've got another question: can they recognize apartments as separate houses? By this I mean, can they understand that two doors with the same roof but separated by walls are different houses? From what I've seen so far, it seems more likely they'd think it's two houses even if they connected to one big room. Also, can they understand it if one houses's roof if the floor of another, or will they think that both doors have the same roof?
"I realized I just liked making them move."
"Look at me still talking when there's science to do. When I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you."

#7

Marfagames

Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:26 PM

Oh sorry for the confusing stuff I said.

View Postsajuuk17, on 25 February 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

I'm curious to know the defintition of each village size ? I mean you you say a small village will have half of its houses occupied, but what size are each ? In term of individual houses or maybe total housing size (in blocks) ?

Let's say your village has 30 houses. The form is not relevant for it. Just houses as what they recognise. A door and a block behind it or door+1rooftile, what ever you prefer.

If these houses are all in a area around 50 tiles, then the villager maximal population will be around 15.
Because villager recognise them only till this range as a house, although they only recognise other villager till this range. So a villager has a overall view on the ground of around 50 tiles in any direction for the breeding behaviour.

Now if these 30 houses are more apart from each other, like some are having a distance of 100 from each other, and the villager walking around. Then there are chances that the villager reach a point in a village where there are less villager then 1/2 of the houses they see. Which leads to breeding! Often it's a increase to 3houses/2villager.
Sure locical it's not as high as this BUT! that's when the villager would be consistend all over the village. That will never happen duo to their socialise behaviour, they go where others are, but not all.

So it could already end up in a infinity grow for 30 houses. I got 110 villager out of a 24 house village because of this, but my village was even more spread out.

In the end villager will try to stay close to other villager and the bigger the village is ,in how far houses are apart from each other, the higher is the chance of breeding more then the normal 2house/1villager.
100x1 has good chances to reach more villager then 15 villager with 30 houses too, although 100x50 is the same like 100x1. If you spread the houses even more apart like 100x100 or 150x100 there then you can increase the chance too for them to breed irregular. This kind of breeding is not depending anymore on how many houses you have, it depens on "how often villager get the requirement to breed".

If you are lucky and some villager find a spot for breeding and their child runs of into a corner of a village and a lot of other villager are in this corner as well, then these who arn't there will breed even more villager.

This is one major reason for why Tristram has so many villager with less houses.

I still can't figure out how it came to a huge population explosion with 12w08a snapshot in Tristram, but they started even to breed children in a overpopulated area. I don't get it, but somehow I belive the new house recognition+ the village size has a huge influence on this immense growth over 400 or more on a daylie basis. I tried to simulate it in a creative world but couldn't really pull this overpopulation of there. Just a normal infinity growth with houses which where far appart.

View Post630tiger, on 25 February 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

I'm a bit confused by that too. Do those numbers mean how many floor/roof/door blocks are placed?

Actually, I've got another question: can they recognize apartments as separate houses? By this I mean, can they understand that two doors with the same roof but separated by walls are different houses? From what I've seen so far, it seems more likely they'd think it's two houses even if they connected to one big room. Also, can they understand it if one houses's roof if the floor of another, or will they think that both doors have the same roof?


They can! They clearly can seperate different houses with same roof. You can do one block and place for doors around it and that's what 4 houses are too. A house now is a door+1walltile too. So one block with 4 doors around it are 4 houses.

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#8

GorgeousTaylor
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:38 PM

They are clearly flaws in this system. Since doors are the absolute determinant factor, villagers will ignore everything else about a house, such as its size, the number of other villagers occupying it, and its level of protection from the outside world. It's sad, really. Hopefully, Jon can work out the kinks.

#9

Marfagames

Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:38 PM

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Here I tried to simulate a bit Tristram, but I never could simulate it, I guess there is just too many I would need to think about for it to truly come out like my Tristram.

So it's a plain 105x75 village area. With exact 36 houses. 30 in the middle and 3 on each side.

At first the villager stayed around point A, nearly all because of their socialise behaviour. They breeded up too 12. Because they didn't recognised all the houses. I added a fence system to lead them more back to B (blue lines are the new fences). It worked and they spread out because of their pathfinding. The population then increased to 17! Which is still not the half. I gave it more time, they spreaded more out, and the population rised to 25. After more time, the population rised even further.

It's a slow growth with such a village which can lead to a infinity population growth already, but only slow. If I would have made it a bit smaller it would stay around 3houses/2 villager and only increase rarly.

Edit:
Ignore the citys in the background, they are further away then 50 tiles and have no influence at all, to be sure I killed everything there and destroyed all doors.

Although it's really only a guess that the villager will recognise houses and villager around 40-60 tiles in a direct. That's why I use here now 50. It works out if you use these numbers.

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#10

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:46 PM

Isn't it because zombies should be able to make villages deserted the reason the doors are what is recognised as houses?

I would prefer some kind of wall too in the calculations to make a valid house, not windows though, that would wreck underground houses pretty hard :rolleyes:

OT: Marfagames usually has the correct info on villagers, listen to him

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#11

630tiger
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:49 PM

View PostMarfagames, on 25 February 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

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Here I tried to simulate a bit Tristram, but I never could simulate it, I guess there is just too many I would need to think about for it to truly come out like my Tristram.

So it's a plain 105x75 village area. With exact 36 houses. 30 in the middle and 3 on each side.

At first the villager stayed around point A, nearly all because of their socialise behaviour. They breeded up too 12. Because they didn't recognised all the houses. I added a fence system to lead them more back to B (blue lines are the new fences). It worked and they spread out because of their pathfinding. The population then increased to 17! Which is still not the half. I gave it more time, they spreaded more out, and the population rised to 25. After more time, the population rised even further.

It's a slow growth with such a village which can lead to a infinity population growth already, but only slow. If I would have made it a bit smaller it would stay around 3houses/2 villager and only increase rarly.

Edit:
Ignore the citys in the background, they are further away then 50 tiles and have no influence at all, to be sure I killed everything there and destroyed all doors.

Although it's really only a guess that the villager will recognise houses and villager around 40-60 tiles in a direct. That's why I use here now 50. It works out if you use these numbers.
Thank you! I understand this all a lot better now. So, because my treetop village will be somewhat spread out because I'm trying to center them around the big jungle trees, I should end up with way more villagers than I have houses?
"I realized I just liked making them move."
"Look at me still talking when there's science to do. When I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you."

#12

Marfagames

Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:52 PM

View Posthaxjagarn, on 25 February 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Isn't it because zombies should be able to make villages deserted the reason the doors are what is recognised as houses?

Yes that is pretty much the reason for it I bet. But you know, a middle sized village or a big village, will not only produce more villager, but although "infinite" golems because of the villager. For my 25 villager I had 3 golems. This was one reason why I first belived that golems need lesser villager. But I was wrong, it's 15 villager per golem spawn. If the golem then walks far away or the villager are going to a other space in the village, then there is a new chance for a golem if the golems and so on. So with a bigger village, more golems appear for less villager which leads to a higher security. I had no zombie problems anymore in Tristram, The villagerproblem got solved through towers, but golems... I can't count anymore on how many I killed by now.

View Post630tiger, on 25 February 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Thank you! I understand this all a lot better now. So, because my treetop village will be somewhat spread out because I'm trying to center them around the big jungle trees, I should end up with way more villagers than I have houses?
Probably yes, after I have explained this to others too, and they increased their citys. Other player although had a huge increase of villager, duo to more spread out houses.

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#13

630tiger
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Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:52 PM

View Posthaxjagarn, on 25 February 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Isn't it because zombies should be able to make villages deserted the reason the doors are what is recognised as houses?
Oh, wait a minute. I hadn't thought of that before. Zombies have a lot more power now than I thought they did. The ability to force villager breeding to stop by removing "houses" is kind of scary.
"I realized I just liked making them move."
"Look at me still talking when there's science to do. When I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you."

#14

Marfagames

Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:21 AM

View Post630tiger, on 25 February 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

Oh, wait a minute. I hadn't thought of that before. Zombies have a lot more power now than I thought they did. The ability to force villager breeding to stop by removing "houses" is kind of scary.

Don't worry about it, with more villager you get more golems. Actually you should be more worried about the golems. If you ever hit a villager it could get nasty for you then XD. Zombies you can drive away easily with light and a nice city layout with fences, trees and houses or walls. But these golems are bad news for ya ;).

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#15

KyoShinda
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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:30 AM

View PostMarfagames, on 26 February 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

Don't worry about it, with more villager you get more golems. Actually you should be more worried about the golems. If you ever hit a villager it could get nasty for you then XD. Zombies you can drive away easily with light and a nice city layout with fences, trees and houses or walls. But these golems are bad news for ya ;).
I made a couple of test rooms for breeding and what happened was, I had 3 golems and they would group together at one house.

When another house was getting attacked by zombies, they would only reach it in time where the zombie was in the room mauling people in the house. The golems couldn't get in the house to save people and this process repeated until almost everyone was dead.
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#16

630tiger
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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:35 AM

View PostKyoShinda, on 26 February 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

I made a couple of test rooms for breeding and what happened was, I had 3 golems and they would group together at one house.

When another house was getting attacked by zombies, they would only reach it in time where the zombie was in the room mauling people in the house. The golems couldn't get in the house to save people and this process repeated until almost everyone was dead.
It's even worse when a golem spawns inside a house. They're totally trapped unless you dig a way out for them, and I don't think they can open doors either way.
"I realized I just liked making them move."
"Look at me still talking when there's science to do. When I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you."

#17

Marfagames

Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:36 AM

View PostKyoShinda, on 26 February 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

I made a couple of test rooms for breeding and what happened was, I had 3 golems and they would group together at one house.
When another house was getting attacked by zombies, they would only reach it in time where the zombie was in the room mauling people in the house. The golems couldn't get in the house to save people and this process repeated until almost everyone was dead.
Never said that these golems are a problem for the zombies, but for players! XD Just be in a house and bitchslap a villager can get you into a kind of prison state hehe.

Yeah I had the same problem with them, they are standing on certain spots at night. Can't really get why they choose these spots. But they collect on them. Although they spawn on roofs and trees, only getting down when they are attacked.
Lot of wired behaviour. Some golems even go straight away from a village into nirvana.

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#18

KyoShinda
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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:39 AM

View PostMarfagames, on 26 February 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

Never said that these golems are a problem for the zombies, but for players! XD Just be in a house and bitchslap a villager can get you into a kind of prison state hehe.

Yeah I had the same problem with them, they are standing on certain spots at night. Can't really get why they choose these spots. But they collect on them. Although they spawn on roofs and trees, only getting down when they are attacked.
Lot of wired behaviour. Some golems even go straight away from a village into nirvana.
They can't really 'leave' because a new one spawns in its stead, hence why golem iron farms are so effective.

They are just bulky, maybe it does force us to think about village design most importantly.
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#19

GorgeousTaylor
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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:47 AM

I still don't get breeding. Sometimes, I can refrain from building a single door, and the villagers will pop out children like they're trying to start their own baseball teams. Or we can look at my current village, where I have cordoned off six rooms with new doors, and not a single villager has reproduced since I arrived in town. Strangely enough, though, another golem has spawned! What?

#20

KyoShinda
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Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:15 AM

View PostGorgeousTaylor, on 26 February 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

I still don't get breeding. Sometimes, I can refrain from building a single door, and the villagers will pop out children like they're trying to start their own baseball teams. Or we can look at my current village, where I have cordoned off six rooms with new doors, and not a single villager has reproduced since I arrived in town. Strangely enough, though, another golem has spawned! What?
I'm starting to get confused and frustrated with them too.

16 'houses' and they stay to 5 villagers. You know how people say you relog for kids to change occupation? It works for a adults, it simply updates the skin, the villagers were already a different job, they just haven't updated visually.

Back on topic: It's been about a mc week and they had a kid the first day, I guess they reached their cap but I don't see how that's possible with all the empty homes.
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