Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Become a Premium Member! Help
Latest News Article

Server Side (Enforced) Texture Packs For SMP


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1

tremor
    tremor

    Tree Puncher

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 30 posts
  • Location: New York
  • Minecraft: tremor77

Posted 21 December 2010 - 03:34 PM

As an SMP Server Administrator, keeping the cheaters at bay has been terribly difficult.  The latest round of problems is with X-Ray Vision style texture packs, players using modified texture packs are seeing through dirt and stone and cobble to either locate resources quickly, or find other players cleverly hidden chests.   I watched a player on my server look at a wall where I had a chest hidden behind several layers of dirt and stone, pull out his tools and go straight for it.  :D

This is why I propose that as a server property, SMP server admins should be allowed to enforce the usage of only the default texture pack, or a server hosted texture pack.

Perhaps:

Force-Default-Textures=true/false
Posted Image

Register or log in to remove.

#2

DreamPhreak
  • Location: South Texas
  • Minecraft: DreamPhreak
  • Xbox:DreamHack497

Posted 21 December 2010 - 03:43 PM

I agree. People are doing that on my server, a way to cheat while running vanilla.

It should have another line in settings like:

Force-Default-Texture=true/false
Force-Server-Texture=


If the 2nd one is empty, then counts as false, otherwise its true. And in a case of both of them being true, the default would take priority, so you dont have to retype the server texture path/filename.

:Bacon:  :Bacon:

#3

tremor
    tremor

    Tree Puncher

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 30 posts
  • Location: New York
  • Minecraft: tremor77

Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:16 PM

DreamPhreak said:

I agree. People are doing that on my server, a way to cheat while running vanilla.

They can cheat using see-through block texture packs whether you are on vanilla or running mods.  In my opinion this is a severe oversight and major flaw in the overall game design....  sure it's nice to allow people to use their own textures, but how do you have any reasonable multiplayer (especially with PVP) gameplay, if you can basically wallhack.  

In addition to this.. I hate that people can see your name over your head through blocks also.  Can't sneak up or hide on people.

Might as well keep ranting... some players are completely invisible due to completely blank skin packs.. (with the exception of their name over their head).
Posted Image

#4

okaydel
    okaydel

    Tree Puncher

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 22 December 2010 - 01:06 PM

This makes sense. Custom skins add a lot to the game when used properly; but, if it's abused, it makes it unfair for those who like to play minecraft the way it was intended. Server-side enforced texture packs ftw
Posted Image
Posted Image

#5

tremor
    tremor

    Tree Puncher

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 30 posts
  • Location: New York
  • Minecraft: tremor77

Posted 29 December 2010 - 01:52 PM

I'm really surprised more server admins haven't jumped on this topic.
Posted Image

#6

jon11888
  • Location: Arizona
  • Minecraft: jon11888

Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:49 PM

There are aspects of this idea that i like, and others that I dislike. It can be extremely annoying when your opponents can see through walls to find hidden bases and use invisible skins, but this would mean that you would have to find a server with all the things you like on it AND it also has to have a texture pack you like.

If it would be possible to get rid of transparancey instead, this might work, if you would be willing to give up glass windows. It is a problem that has no adequate solution.

[edit] I just had another idea: if you had two layers of texturepacks, one on the serverside, and the one that is being used by a player. the one on the serverside is the standard one so if people try using transparancy than they just see the normal texturepack through their's.

there are several things you can do to circumvent their advantageous texturepacks: ingame you can hide your bases and items better by filling them in with sand or hiding them under lava pools deep underground. they can only see air pockets, take it like a challenge: you versus them. if they are too lazy to play without cheating they are probably too lazy to check under every single stone and lavapit in in minecraft.

#7

TheApathetic
  • Location: Typing while on a wall (because I can)

Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:41 PM

jon11888 said:

If it would be possible to get rid of transparancey instead, this might work, if you would be willing to give up glass windows. It is a problem that has no adequate solution.

I wonder how feasible it would be to enforce transparency per block type in code. It should be pretty obvious which block types require the alpha channel (glass, leaves, sprite-based blocks, etc.), so everything not whitelisted (via a property set in each block type) would default to opaque.

jon11888 said:

[edit] I just had another idea: if you had two layers of texturepacks, one on the serverside, and the one that is being used by a player. the one on the serverside is the standard one so if people try using transparancy than they just see the normal texturepack through their's.

This is an interesting possibility; the only problem would be implementation (as I don't know how workable this idea would be).
Disclaimer: user may not actually be apathetic.
ApatheticMods (Toggle Blocks, Secret Switches, Sign Edit)

#8

tremor
    tremor

    Tree Puncher

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 30 posts
  • Location: New York
  • Minecraft: tremor77

Posted 30 December 2010 - 08:48 PM

One of the texture packs that I've tested that use this cheat, the blocks for sand, dirt, grass, snow, stone, cobble, to name a few are all done so you can see all the way down to bedrock, and any of the goodies below, not just peoples chests but, quick location of high end blocks like diamonds.   Using a pack unnamed I was so easily able to locate and mine over 100 diamond in less then 10 minutes on vanilla SMP.  

Perhaps a check against transparency on most blocks...    but I also prefer enforcing default texture packs.. as a server admin for other games before minecraft, part of a server's uniqueness in many are the admins ability to create they own mods and skins for it..
Posted Image

#9

myerscarpenter

Posted 10 January 2011 - 09:30 PM

The difficultly is that the server is sending the client more info about the world than the client should know.  I remember that you could get a "radar" for EverQuest that didn't modify the client but rather looked at the incoming packets and displayed them in a different program.  

http://features.slas...1/1558220.shtml

What you really want is a rewrite of the client/server protocol, so that the server only sends to the client what the server thinks the client should see, no more.  This has implications on client side prediction.

#10

weblue
    weblue

    Tree Puncher

  • Members
  • 29 posts

Posted 25 January 2011 - 05:12 AM

as its been said many times, the multiplayer part of the game isnt being worked on. The reason its so basic is because its a concept design. after notch finishes main glitches and fixes and features of ssp he will start to work on smp. The game is beta and you guys are acting like its release. The problem will eventually be resolved.

#11

Nope
    Nope

    Tree Puncher

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 25 January 2011 - 05:32 AM

Any feature in minecraft can be abused. It's a sad but true tale of the game. If it isn't texture packs, it's something else.

If people are doing this in your server, why not just go "Nope." and ban/kick them?
Nope.

#12

Dueler
    Dueler

    Zombie Killer

  • Members
  • 218 posts

Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:59 AM

100% Agree.
If a server wishes to enforce a texture pack then it's their choice.
Of course it should only be default 16x16 textures enforced then an option to use higher resolution packs if the player chooses. (Wouldn't be a problem anyway not like texture packs are massive in size)
Posted Image

#13

tremor
    tremor

    Tree Puncher

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 30 posts
  • Location: New York
  • Minecraft: tremor77

Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:14 PM

Nope said:

Any feature in minecraft can be abused. It's a sad but true tale of the game. If it isn't texture packs, it's something else.

If people are doing this in your server, why not just go "Nope." and ban/kick them?

That would be good if there were some way of actually being informed of what the player is using.  But as it stands there is no way a server can query what mods, wrappers, skins and plugins that a connecting player is using.  And to the random idiot who always says something like 'quit crying the game is in beta'...  hello moron, this is the suggestions forum... and I'm making a suggestion.   As the game gets developed more, and I've been following the development for over a year now...  I'd really like that N0tch start considering the needs of server hosts more and more...  i've had enough new blocks and new monsters and shiny crap...  let's start blocking the flyers, dupers, speedhackers and more who still make running any kind of server a joke.
Posted Image

#14

robino
    robino

    Out of the Water

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:45 PM

I think it would be good to see what texture pack somebody is using. Why, if somebody likes some textures, and he cant use it on his favourite server? Maybe something like blacklist or whitelist for texture packs?

#15

willisj
    willisj

    Tree Puncher

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 28 January 2011 - 06:30 PM

robino said:

I think it would be good to see what texture pack somebody is using. Why, if somebody likes some textures, and he cant use it on his favourite server? Maybe something like blacklist or whitelist for texture packs?

This is an issue because someone can just go into the default one or a popular skin, and replace the textures with one of the hacked textures. The only way I see it happening is block specific transparencies or a new server-client protocol.

#16

tremor
    tremor

    Tree Puncher

  • Curse Premium
  • Curse Premium
  • 30 posts
  • Location: New York
  • Minecraft: tremor77

Posted 28 January 2011 - 06:59 PM

DO you suppose a /spec command would work?  Instead of the usual /tp you could /spec and see what the player is seeing.  I would imagine that initially it would use your texture pack...  and I cant think of any technically feasible way it would be possible...   but you would be able to see them look at a wall or the ground and then dig straight for something...  of course you would have to suspect them in the first place.  As it is, feels like my server is more heavy with ops and admins than basic players right now, just to keep order.
Posted Image

#17

evan86
    evan86

    Zombie Killer

  • Members
  • 156 posts
  • Location: US

Posted 28 January 2011 - 07:15 PM

I remember way back when people were doing similar things to Counter-Strike and applying bright red and blue skins to the terrorists and counter-terrorists, respectively.  

I agree that server admins should be able to control the texture packs but not in a strict, nazi sort of way because I like the way my painterly pack looks. I'll still play with the default every now and then but I can't imagine someone wouldn't like to be forced into using a texture pack they don't like.
Every sapling deserves a chance. Plant a sapling. Invest in the future.http://www.youtube.c...oe?feature=mhum

#18

willisj
    willisj

    Tree Puncher

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:30 PM

what about if upon logging into the server your texture file was uploaded to the server and named with your user-id. this way the admins can go through the skins every so often to see who's using what. It would be simple enough to make up some sort of server-side program in order to check for transparencies in certain blocks.

#19

Clintonio
    Clintonio

    Lapis Lazuli Collector

  • Members
  • 1080 posts
  • Location: UK
  • Minecraft: Clintonxa

Posted 02 February 2011 - 05:16 PM

Just to say this; (TP = Texture Pack)

If we forced a certain TP then the player could modify their client to lie about having it.

If we check their TP, the player could mod client to lie about it.

If we do anything client side; the player could mod client to lie about it.

Unless Notch does some pretty clever stuff with encryption and stopping the player being able to modify the protocol data being sent back to the server; ie, making client mods unable to edit the send data, then we can't solve this issue.

Solutions;
Somehow (encryption or better) protect the protocol data and stop the modders from editing this part of the code.
Feasibility: Nigh on impossible since we can just reverse engineer the code and intercept packets to allow us to modify the data being sent.

Stop sending all of the block data to the client.
Feasibility: Possible, will make code and processing time higher.
Problems: Would increase lag and cause blocks to be "missing" after digging/ blowing stuff up unless the server learns some more magic. Would take a while for Notch to develop.
Pros; Less memory usage on client side.

Rewrite MC in a different language, thus preventing clients from easily editing the software
Feasibility: Hahaha.

#20

RVDigital

Posted 07 February 2011 - 08:55 PM

BUMP

     There's got to be a plugin in development or some way of making this work. If at least limiting anything besides the default textures. Its not fair to the players who play by the rules, that is after all the fun of it.