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#1

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 01:57 AM

Why doesn't Minecraft run in 64-bit Java in Windows?

Notch........?
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#2

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 05:14 AM

It does.
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Posted 21 December 2010 - 05:18 AM

What a helpful response.

Care to elaborate?  Doesn't work for me at all.  Asks me to download 32-bit Java to run.
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#4

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 06:07 AM

SeeD419 said:

What a helpful response.

Care to elaborate?  Doesn't work for me at all.  Asks me to download 32-bit Java to run.

I don't have 64-bit so i can't comment on if It'l run with 64-bit specific java. You might have to download a copy of 32 bit java to actually run it, 64-bit OS's are backwards compatible with 32 bit designed software but you have to run it in a 32 bit context usually, in this one that'd be using 32 bit java.

If it actually runs in 64 bit natively then you likely just have some other problem.
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#5

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 06:15 AM

Satharis said:

I don't have 64-bit so i can't comment on if It'l run with 64-bit specific java. You might have to download a copy of 32 bit java to actually run it, 64-bit OS's are backwards compatible with 32 bit designed software but you have to run it in a 32 bit context usually, in this one that'd be using 32 bit java.

If it actually runs in 64 bit natively then you likely just have some other problem.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.

I'm well aware of everything you've just said.

I would like to run the game in 64-bit and take advantage of my 64-bit registers.

Why on earth would I want to run the game in 32-bit when my processor can handle twice that?  Not to mention the fact that Java is one of the very few programs that has actually been re-written for 64-bit, it seems silly to not have a 64-bit Minecraft...

I'm no software developer, I'm just saying...I'd rather not bog down my machine with old architecture software and run the game as fast as I can.  I mean...64-bit has been around for 10 years...
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#6

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 06:32 AM

SeeD419 said:

Satharis said:

I don't have 64-bit so i can't comment on if It'l run with 64-bit specific java. You might have to download a copy of 32 bit java to actually run it, 64-bit OS's are backwards compatible with 32 bit designed software but you have to run it in a 32 bit context usually, in this one that'd be using 32 bit java.

If it actually runs in 64 bit natively then you likely just have some other problem.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.

I'm well aware of everything you've just said.

I would like to run the game in 64-bit and take advantage of my 64-bit registers.

Why on earth would I want to run the game in 32-bit when my processor can handle twice that?  Not to mention the fact that Java is one of the very few programs that has actually been re-written for 64-bit, it seems silly to not have a 64-bit Minecraft...

I'm no software developer, I'm just saying...I'd rather not bog down my machine with old architecture software and run the game as fast as I can.  I mean...64-bit has been around for 10 years...

My mistake, honestly your post was kind of confusing, i thought you were saying it doesn't run and you don't know why.

It's because Notch just hasn't coded it that way, usually making a game take advantage of 64 bit requires alot of case type statements in the code so it can run for 32 and 64 bit, Notch likely just doesn't want to devote the time to doing it right now and given the state of the game it likely wouldn't make a huge performance difference.

On that note 64-bit has been very very 'out there' and 64 bit has only become more mainstream with windows 7's release, since people can get enough cheap ram now to take advantage of it, and the fact it is quickly becoming a roadblock(you need 64 bit for more then 4 gb of ram i believe.)

You'll probably find alot of mainstream software and games still don't have 64 bit compliant versions, depends on the game really. You just won't notice the difference since the games run by themselves instead of through a virtual machine like Java, you'd have to read the fineprint to figure out of most of them run 32 bit only.
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#7

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:06 AM

Satharis said:

My mistake, honestly your post was kind of confusing, i thought you were saying it doesn't run and you don't know why.

It's because Notch just hasn't coded it that way, usually making a game take advantage of 64 bit requires alot of case type statements in the code so it can run for 32 and 64 bit, Notch likely just doesn't want to devote the time to doing it right now and given the state of the game it likely wouldn't make a huge performance difference.

On that note 64-bit has been very very 'out there' and 64 bit has only become more mainstream with windows 7's release, since people can get enough cheap ram now to take advantage of it, and the fact it is quickly becoming a roadblock(you need 64 bit for more then 4 gb of ram i believe.)

You'll probably find alot of mainstream software and games still don't have 64 bit compliant versions, depends on the game really. You just won't notice the difference since the games run by themselves instead of through a virtual machine like Java, you'd have to read the fineprint to figure out of most of them run 32 bit only.
Well, I don't know how my original post could have been confusing.  It simply says that Minecraft won't run in 64-bit Java, which is exactly the issue.

I'm well aware of the difference between true 64-bit and 64-bit compatible software, but Java actually did release a 64-bit version.  So, like I said before, it would be nice to have at least another program running in 64-bit.  I'd like to know how that wouldn't improve game performance.
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#8

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:23 AM

SeeD419 said:

Well, I don't know how my original post could have been confusing.  It simply says that Minecraft won't run in 64-bit Java, which is exactly the issue.

I'm well aware of the difference between true 64-bit and 64-bit compatible software, but Java actually did release a 64-bit version.  So, like I said before, it would be nice to have at least another program running in 64-bit.  I'd like to know how that wouldn't improve game performance.

Well considering nobody else got you seems like, i don't feel really bad i don't, your post was very shallow without much direction, saying "it doesn't work on 64 bit, why" isn't really the same as saying "i can get minecraft to run in 32 bit java but not on 64 bit, why doesn't it support this?"

Second is, the program has to be designed to take advantage of the 64 bit architecture, which is what would take so long and the reason its not likely to be done right now. If Notch just went through and added cases to let it run as 64 bit it wouldn't have any performance increase and be a total moot point. Second is the game is pretty unoptimized right now and games tend to generally gain little from CPU related improvements, so you wouldn't see a very big boost in performance right now even if he did all that.

Short version: No bang for the buck in making it run 64 bit right now, maybe closer to release or something, depends on his plans.
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#9

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:38 AM

Satharis said:

Well considering nobody else got you seems like, i don't feel really bad i don't, your post was very shallow without much direction, saying "it doesn't work on 64 bit, why" isn't really the same as saying "i can get minecraft to run in 32 bit java but not on 64 bit, why doesn't it support this?"

Second is, the program has to be designed to take advantage of the 64 bit architecture, which is what would take so long and the reason its not likely to be done right now. If Notch just went through and added cases to let it run as 64 bit it wouldn't have any performance increase and be a total moot point. Second is the game is pretty unoptimized right now and games tend to generally gain little from CPU related improvements, so you wouldn't see a very big boost in performance right now even if he did all that.

Short version: No bang for the buck in making it run 64 bit right now, maybe closer to release or something, depends on his plans.
Well, whatever...

I'm well aware that the game would have to be designed to take advantage of 64 bit architecture.

However, the platform it runs on has a 64-bit version already (I've mentioned this already).  Therefore, I can't imagine (although I don't know for sure) that it would be hard to make it run on 64-bit Java.

A buddy of mine loaded this on a 64-bit version of Linux, and I believe he's playing it in 64-bit Java.  This led me to believe that the Linux version actually had 64-bit support, but the Windows version did not.  I'm curious if anyone can confirm this?

When you say the game sees very little performance boost from CPU improvements, what leads you to believe this?  Do you think the game relies more heavily on GPU performance?  Or perhaps faster memory speeds?
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#10

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:48 AM

im not even sure why you want to run it as 64 bit, as it stands i sit on 200 + fps while running, spinning, tnt explosions the lot. the only reason why i could possibly imagine you want 64 bit is for insanely large TnT explosions. otherwise it seems pointless and it would take away dev time on the main project.
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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:51 AM

SeeD419 said:

Satharis said:

Well considering nobody else got you seems like, i don't feel really bad i don't, your post was very shallow without much direction, saying "it doesn't work on 64 bit, why" isn't really the same as saying "i can get minecraft to run in 32 bit java but not on 64 bit, why doesn't it support this?"

Second is, the program has to be designed to take advantage of the 64 bit architecture, which is what would take so long and the reason its not likely to be done right now. If Notch just went through and added cases to let it run as 64 bit it wouldn't have any performance increase and be a total moot point. Second is the game is pretty unoptimized right now and games tend to generally gain little from CPU related improvements, so you wouldn't see a very big boost in performance right now even if he did all that.

Short version: No bang for the buck in making it run 64 bit right now, maybe closer to release or something, depends on his plans.
Well, whatever...

I'm well aware that the game would have to be designed to take advantage of 64 bit architecture.

However, the platform it runs on has a 64-bit version already (I've mentioned this already).  Therefore, I can't imagine (although I don't know for sure) that it would be hard to make it run on 64-bit Java.

A buddy of mine loaded this on a 64-bit version of Linux, and I believe he's playing it in 64-bit Java.  This led me to believe that the Linux version actually had 64-bit support, but the Windows version did not.  I'm curious if anyone can confirm this?

When you say the game sees very little performance boost from CPU improvements, what leads you to believe this?  Do you think the game relies more heavily on GPU performance?  Or perhaps faster memory speeds?

Its more a generalization based on most games, in most cases a quad core i7 doesn't even give a huge performance boost over a dual core i3 or something simply because it already maxes out the 'logic' processing for the game, all the stress is placed on the GPU for rendering and such. Most people pretty much waste money getting an i7 or something when they could spend the -huge- price difference on a better video card.

That said, this game would be one of the few that might give you more performance with a better cpu, it depends on which cpu it is really, the lighting and stuff uses alot of cpu time. Also the linux thing i have no idea honestly, i haven't read 64 bit support anywhere for the game.

http://www.guru3d.co...re-processors/1 <---

Article is a little old but you can see the general comparison, as the resolution goes higher the 'percent' of the work the CPU does just drops more and more, it stays at a set rate whereas the GPU can basically take off with infinite framerate depending on it's power and limitations.
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#12

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:02 AM

Satharis said:

Its more a generalization based on most games, in most cases a quad core i7 doesn't even give a huge performance boost over a dual core i3 or something simply because it already maxes out the 'logic' processing for the game, all the stress is placed on the GPU for rendering and such. Most people pretty much waste money getting an i7 or something when they could spend the -huge- price difference on a better video card.

That said, this game would be one of the few that might give you more performance with a better cpu, it depends on which cpu it is really, the lighting and stuff uses alot of cpu time. Also the linux thing i have no idea honestly, i haven't read 64 bit support anywhere for the game.

http://www.guru3d.co...re-processors/1 <---

Article is a little old but you can see the general comparison, as the resolution goes higher the 'percent' of the work the CPU does just drops more and more, it stays at a set rate whereas the GPU can basically take off with infinite framerate depending on it's power and limitations.
Well I'm running an overclocked dual core processor right now and an BFG GeForce 7900gs.  Maybe it's finally time for a GPU upgrade :/  The card is a few years old...

Umcookies said:

im not even sure why you want to run it as 64 bit, as it stands i sit on 200 + fps while running, spinning, tnt explosions the lot. the only reason why i could possibly imagine you want 64 bit is for insanely large TnT explosions. otherwise it seems pointless and it would take away dev time on the main project.
Is there a way to see how many fps I'm getting?  I'm running a 64x64 HD pack btw, so this is why...
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#13

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:05 AM

You can hold f..3? f3 i think, one of the f keys i don't remember right now, shows a big graph with fps at the top left, if you mean minecraft specifically.
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Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:12 AM

Satharis said:

You can hold f..3? f3 i think, one of the f keys i don't remember right now, shows a big graph with fps at the top left, if you mean minecraft specifically.
I do, let me see what I'm running currently.

Thanks for that article, an interesting read.

Edit:  Looks like about 18-60fps

It seemed to hover around 30 on average.  So apparently I need a GPU upgrade I'm thinking...
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#15

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:36 AM

I have both 64 and 32-bit versions of Java installed on Win 7 x64.

Running the Windows Minecraft.exe attaches it to the 64-bit version of Java, which has no problems running at all.

Whilst I'm sure there are plenty of 64-bit optimisations available to Java programming, as it's a compiled language, it will automatically make use of the extra CPU registers for storing variables and suchlike. I doubt this has a great deal of impact on Minecraft, as the bulk of the work is processing mass data (map chunks, lists of mobs).

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 09:54 AM

HonestFlames said:

I have both 64 and 32-bit versions of Java installed on Win 7 x64.

Running the Windows Minecraft.exe attaches it to the 64-bit version of Java, which has no problems running at all.

Whilst I'm sure there are plenty of 64-bit optimisations available to Java programming, as it's a compiled language, it will automatically make use of the extra CPU registers for storing variables and suchlike. I doubt this has a great deal of impact on Minecraft, as the bulk of the work is processing mass data (map chunks, lists of mobs).
I've uninstalled 32-bit Java and tested this in the browser and Minecraft runs fine.

Initially I installed only 64-bit Java, and upon trying to open Minecraft, it told me I needed a 32-bit version of Java.

I am at a loss.
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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:00 AM

SeeD419 said:

HonestFlames said:

I have both 64 and 32-bit versions of Java installed on Win 7 x64.

Running the Windows Minecraft.exe attaches it to the 64-bit version of Java, which has no problems running at all.

Whilst I'm sure there are plenty of 64-bit optimisations available to Java programming, as it's a compiled language, it will automatically make use of the extra CPU registers for storing variables and suchlike. I doubt this has a great deal of impact on Minecraft, as the bulk of the work is processing mass data (map chunks, lists of mobs).
I've uninstalled 32-bit Java and tested this in the browser and Minecraft runs fine.

Initially I installed only 64-bit Java, and upon trying to open Minecraft, it told me I needed a 32-bit version of Java.

I am at a loss.

Guess the JVM does more then i thought it did when it comes to 64 bit compatibility, that said, no idea, something funky when your previous java install maybe? Least it works now.
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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:23 AM

Errm...I'm not so sure.  I think maybe you just think you're running in 64-bit Java.

I rebooted, updated 64-bit Java.  I have no 32-bit Java installed at all.

Minecraft is broken.  It won't open.
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#19

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:26 AM

SeeD419 said:

Errm...I'm not so sure.  I think maybe you just think you're running in 64-bit Java.

I rebooted, updated 64-bit Java.  I have no 32-bit Java installed at all.

Minecraft is broken.  It won't open.

I just re-read what you said above, your posts are -really- awkward. I thought you meant it was working now and you weren't sure why, sheesh.

If it won't work i have no idea, maybe someone else can help, i really don't have any clue about Java and 64 bit.
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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:34 AM

Satharis said:

I just re-read what you said above, your posts are -really- awkward. I thought you meant it was working now and you weren't sure why, sheesh.

If it won't work i have no idea, maybe someone else can help, i really don't have any clue about Java and 64 bit.
It was working until I rebooted.

Don't know what do to about awkward posts, all I can do is explain it in plain English.  If you can't comprehend what I'm saying, I can't help you.

Anyway, I found this after searching for a while:

"if its windows you would actually need to use a batch file to force use of the 64 bit java unless u completely uninstall the 32bit java.

Code: Select all
    "c:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\java.exe"  -Xms1536M -Xmx1536M  -jar

as opposed to it pointing to the 32bit java which the normal launcher uses in the "c:\program files (x86)" folder"

So basically, anyone who thinks they're running Minecraft in 64-bit and hasn't executed this line of code - isn't, which is exactly what I suspected.  It's the same way with browsing in Internet explorer.  Windows will automatically revert to 32-bit under the assumption that nothing is compatible with 64-bit, which is sadly almost true.

Hopefully this makes sense and isn't 'awkward'.
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