Minecraft Forums

Quote from CFusion

I imagine that you have a god-like computer. Minecraft was built to run on all different kinds of configurations and to be compatible with everything from your 1000-core processor-run computer to the Commodore 64.

On the issue of lag, there shouldn't be any lag at all even with the internal server. It is a LAN connection, which generally gives the host (which is you) perfect connection because you are not connecting to a remote server over a hundred miles away. The only lag that could be produced is the time it takes for your network adapter to communicate with the broadcasted signal of your router. If you're connecting to a large network like Clear or something, I have nothing for you...


That is Dinnerbone. Dinnerbone is awesome. Enough said.


As I have said in reply to another post, there are other more pressing matters such as Minecraft's security flaws and the rising number of hackers in the Minecraft community. Personally, i'd like to see those fixed before a Mod API is released...

Right, I was merely suggesting that it might be his computer. I know my computer and the computers of every one else who plays minecraft won't all be able to run it at the same settings without lag, but it doesn't exactly make it the games fault. I have been playing since June 2010 and the only reason I've ever had lag was because of the computer I,m playing on. On the other hand it could be mods or such that are slowing his computer down( the person i originally responded to). My computer isn't that great but i did build it specifically for gaming because the one before couldn't handle any games. It might be the computer and not the game that's my only point here.

"Changing the terrain is what I get the most negative feedback on ...I don't want to change the terrain anymore."

VERY BIG PROBLEM.

Quote from ChaosGuardian

"Changing the terrain is what I get the most negative feedback on ...I don't want to change the terrain anymore."

I heard that as "When we change the terrain we get lots of negative feedback, so we want to avoid doing it"

Quote from rem0te

I heard that as "When we change the terrain we get lots of negative feedback, so we want to avoid doing it"

Nope, just rewatched it today and replayed the part at least 10 times. Besides, if they get negative feedback on something, maybe they should do something so they get positive feedback? Cause and effect?

Quote from MiningMike

So it looks like no mod-api in 1.4 again

The Mod API is already started, unlike during the 1.3 snapshots after 1.2.5. Mojang is definitely making progress, but it is proving to be far more complex of a challenge than many players are making it out to become.

The dilemma is this: Should Mojang go ahead and put in a very simple API into the game... sort of like ModLoader minus a bunch of stuff (but actually does do dynamic loading of mods and a few very basic interfaces)? Or perhaps should Mojang instead delay the API until there is some real meat on the API?

For myself, I'd rather see a very basic API implemented even if it is horribly incomplete. It would be a start, and could even be put into the snapshots for people to test out along the way. At least that way the idiots who keep saying that Mojang is breaking their promises can be shut up, and the folks actually writing mods could start getting used to the new API system... even if not all of the functions that will eventually be in the API are implemented yet or even defined. The API is going to be an evolving system with things changing quite frequently.

Besides, if the API was put into the snapshots... even if it wasn't formally released for 1.4 it could still be tested and used to some degree or another. 1.4 has not been released yet, so to say it will not be in that version of Minecraft is sort of presumptive. That Jeb is hesitating and suggesting it isn't ready yet may be true... and he has the development team doing a whole lot of different things right now where he may consider the API to be a lower priority. Perhaps the player community can gently remind Jeb that it is something that should be put into the game sooner rather than later.

Quote from ChaosGuardian

"Changing the terrain is what I get the most negative feedback on ...I don't want to change the terrain anymore."

VERY BIG PROBLEM.

I love how your life is arguing about the terrain.
Youre so obsessed about how bad it is. Why not look at the good features?
Its like raging about how your computer is crappy all day long. In the end you dont get anything out of it. Its just tiring and immature.
If you hate it so much grab a bunch of devs and create a mod for all your 2000 supporters. Obviously Mojang isn't going to do anything about it so it is pointless and immature to rant about how bad it is for your whole life.

Quote from UnknownOne23

I love how your life is arguing about the terrain.
Youre so obsessed about how bad it is. Why not look at the good features?
Its like raging about how your computer is crappy all day long. In the end you dont get anything out of it. Its just tiring and immature.
If you hate it so much grab a bunch of devs and create a mod for all your 2000 supporters. Obviously Mojang isn't going to do anything about it so it is pointless and immature to rant about how bad it is for your whole life.

Thanks for contributing.

Quote from King Korihor

The Mod API is already started, unlike during the 1.3 snapshots after 1.2.5. Mojang is definitely making progress, but it is proving to be far more complex of a challenge than many players are making it out to become.

The dilemma is this: Should Mojang go ahead and put in a very simple API into the game... sort of like ModLoader minus a bunch of stuff (but actually does do dynamic loading of mods and a few very basic interfaces)? Or perhaps should Mojang instead delay the API until there is some real meat on the API?

For myself, I'd rather see a very basic API implemented even if it is horribly incomplete. It would be a start, and could even be put into the snapshots for people to test out along the way. At least that way the idiots who keep saying that Mojang is breaking their promises can be shut up, and the folks actually writing mods could start getting used to the new API system... even if not all of the functions that will eventually be in the API are implemented yet or even defined. The API is going to be an evolving system with things changing quite frequently.

Besides, if the API was put into the snapshots... even if it wasn't formally released for 1.4 it could still be tested and used to some degree or another. 1.4 has not been released yet, so to say it will not be in that version of Minecraft is sort of presumptive. That Jeb is hesitating and suggesting it isn't ready yet may be true... and he has the development team doing a whole lot of different things right now where he may consider the API to be a lower priority. Perhaps the player community can gently remind Jeb that it is something that should be put into the game sooner rather than later.

Well said. The consensus seems to be put something out there, basic or not. I LOVE new features. I want to see 101 new things to craft and play with. However I love mods too and there is at least some evidence that a few of the major modders are losing steam. Maybe because of no official API yet? I don't know and you don't know but I'd be willing to wait a bit on awesome new features in order for a more fundamental thing (API) to be banged out.

Quote from ChaosGuardian

Thanks for contributing.

No problem! :PAnd I have to agree with you that the terrain sucks.
But terrain isnt what Minecraft is so I dont really care right now.

Quote from CFusion

Agreed. Any programmer worth their salt would fix something that's broken. But, look at the other side of the spectrum - people are demanding so much of a 4-man team. I think Jens has his priorities straight, after all he is a developer of the world's most successful indie game...

The thing about the terrain generation though:

IT HAS TO BE BROKEN FIRST. And it ISNT. This is why it does not "get fixed".


There's a really obnoxiously vocal group on the forums here that dislikes the current terrain generation, but..... that's it. There's just as many (and actually probably way more) that DO like it. And a rule of gaming forums is "the negative players are always the most vocal". Alot of the more positive ones just dont even bother posting, because they have nothing to complain about.

Jeb doesnt fix it because there's no reason to. The current terrain generation is not some sort of bug or glitch, it is what THEY programmed it to be. If someone doesnt like it, that's too bad. But really, this is freaking MINECRAFT. One thing the game is famous for at this point is it's massive number of mods. Get a mod that changes the bloody generator to how you want it, INSTEAD of complaining about this (particularly since Jeb has said he wont fix it, there is no actual POINT in complaining about it now).

Not to mention, as someone else already pointed out, when they DO change it, people get crazy generation errors and damaged worlds. Nobody wants that. Everyone completely flips the hell out when this happens.


I like the terrain as it is, and I know full well there are many others who share that opinion. Again, if you DONT..... just get mods. It's simple. Yes, it can make updates annoying and problematic, but they're getting to that.

Are we getting the new internal server lag fixed on 1.4? Or am I going to have to wait 2 weeks for optifine again?

Quote from rem0te

I heard that as "When we change the terrain we get lots of negative feedback, so we want to avoid doing it"

Yeah, that's pretty much what he said.

See what our collective complaining has accomplished? Unprogress. If we never get a new biome again it'll be because of the community. Worth noting selectable terrain generators would please both ends of the argument.

Quote from Lumireaver

Yeah, that's pretty much what he said.

See what our collective complaining has accomplished? Unprogress. If we never get a new biome again it'll be because of the community. Worth noting selectable terrain generators would please both ends of the argument.

And what happens if we don't complain? Nothing! They want feedback? There it is.

Quote from ChaosGuardian

And what happens if we don't complain? Nothing! They want feedback? There it is.

There is a difference between what is charitably called "bitching" or just complaining because you hate something and some objective criticism that gets into specifics about why you don't like how it works. Even better is something more like constructive criticism where not only do you point out specific details, but how it could be improved in a realistic fashion.

Pointing out bugs that simply shouldn't be there (especially game crashing situations which make the game simply unplayable) or very odd behavior that impacts previous game play in a negative manner is certainly worth mentioning.

Far too often what I see is just complaints about the game because it is a change, or that unrealistic expectations are being made by certain players critical of Mojang. Often it is complaints (like those critical of the SP/MP merger) who are just plain ignorant of what is going on. None of those kind of complaints are helpful to improving the game at all.

Ok one of the 4 said they were working on performance issues. He said that the game does not run the way they want it to on new machines. He then said that the game has been programed to run on quite old machines as well. That in and of it's self is half the problem. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to make your game work for a large base of people. However it's going to take a lot of work to make the game run right for us all. Perhaps they need to narrow their focus a bit. Perhaps not focus on making the game run on PET computers as well (yes that was a very old man joke).

They have also said in the past that game ran poorly on some newer machines, and in that video they mentioned a few times that they were working on changing the client drastically and are working on a new rendering engine. Would make since as OptiFine actually uses the graphic engine to render things and wala doubles your frames (note it probably does not work on PET/old ass computer).

That tells me that they know about the damm lagg, and it's a lot bigger problem than changing a few lines of code. It sounds to me like they took a look a the client, and then realized that it all has to go. Even harder they can't just scrap the hole thing and start over because the game is already out. I would not envy this task were it me.

So it looks like the road to the API is longer than thought.

1. One code to rule them all.
2. Make the game work for them all.
3. Finish the Mod API

What I'm saying is in order to get to the goal you have to put the steps in place to get there.. You can't just shove a 350 small block chevy into a Mini Cooper without also installing a transmission and drive train that can take it. You will just brake something else in the process.

So that is the problem. It looks like a short list, but every task is very long. If you put out the API before the merge, you would have to code it twice. If you do it before the performance problems are fixed one thing might break the other. They need a good solid performing engine before they make it modifiable. That way they know what they can allow to be tinkered with. This is going to take a lot of time.

So now If they all simply worked on the performance, merge, and bug issues, and then put out a new update when all that was done. We would still be looking for our first update in over a year. How mad would people be then. After a week or two away from a new update you see threads on here posting "When will the X.X.X update come out it's been too long!" Don't believe me, just look what happens when they don't do a snapshot update. So someone has to do small projects, give us fluff, short term goals, wile they work on the bigger, long term things.

It's a good idea if you ask me. The internet is not a patchent world after all. We want it more, bigger, better, faster. And we want it when....... Yesterday.

BTW you too might be a bit gun shy to change anything as well. If every time you did you got millions of hate mail. Now your hating on Jeb because he is trying to not offend people. Poor guy can't catch a brake. Think of the hell caused of a stinken' Potato. If he made a terrain piece that has Potato patch in it, how many people would complain that they have to restart their world because they have to walk a few thousand meters to generate a new chunk? Then by the gods if it has a ridge in it all hell will brake loose because it's so ugly. Wait for all hell to brake loose we need to make a portal (hymp). So then if their is no freeken sand nearby the world will simply come to an end. No wait to get to the end we need a totally different portal, only found in a strong hold that forms underground so long as nothing else crosses it's path, but ....gaaaaaaaa!

Quote from grommen

Ok one of the 4 said they were working on performance issues. He said that the game does not run the way they want it to on new machines. He then said that the game has been programed to run on quite old machines as well. That in and of it's self is half the problem. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to make your game work for a large base of people. However it's going to take a lot of work to make the game run right for us all. Perhaps they need to narrow their focus a bit. Perhaps not focus on making the game run on PET computers as well (yes that was a very old man joke).

They have also said in the past that game ran poorly on some newer machines, and in that video they mentioned a few times that they were working on changing the client drastically and are working on a new rendering engine. Would make since as OptiFine actually uses the graphic engine to render things and wala doubles your frames (note it probably does not work on PET/old ass computer).

That tells me that they know about the damm lagg, and it's a lot bigger problem than changing a few lines of code. It sounds to me like they took a look a the client, and then realized that it all has to go. Even harder they can't just scrap the hole thing and start over because the game is already out. I would not envy this task were it me.

So it looks like the road to the API is longer than thought.

1. One code to rule them all.
2. Make the game work for them all.
3. Finish the Mod API

What I'm saying is in order to get to the goal you have to put the steps in place to get there.. You can't just shove a 350 small block chevy into a Mini Cooper without also installing a transmission and drive train that can take it. You will just brake something else in the process.

So that is the problem. It looks like a short list, but every task is very long. If you put out the API before the merge, you would have to code it twice. If you do it before the performance problems are fixed one thing might break the other. They need a good solid performing engine before they make it modifiable. That way they know what they can allow to be tinkered with. This is going to take a lot of time.

So now If they all simply worked on the performance, merge, and bug issues, and then put out a new update when all that was done. We would still be looking for our first update in over a year. How mad would people be then. After a week or two away from a new update you see threads on here posting "When will the X.X.X update come out it's been too long!" Don't believe me, just look what happens when they don't do a snapshot update. So someone has to do small projects, give us fluff, short term goals, wile they work on the bigger, long term things.

It's a good idea if you ask me. The internet is not a patchent world after all. We want it more, bigger, better, faster. And we want it when....... Yesterday.

BTW you too might be a bit gun shy to change anything as well. If every time you did you got millions of hate mail. Now your hating on Jeb because he is trying to not offend people. Poor guy can't catch a brake. Think of the hell caused of a stinken' Potato. If he made a terrain piece that has Potato patch in it, how many people would complain that they have to restart their world because they have to walk a few thousand meters to generate a new chunk? Then by the gods if it has a ridge in it all hell will brake loose because it's so ugly. Wait for all hell to brake loose we need to make a portal (hymp). So then if their is no freeken sand nearby the world will simply come to an end. No wait to get to the end we need a totally different portal, only found in a strong hold that forms underground so long as nothing else crosses it's path, but ....gaaaaaaaa!

whow that's a lot of text. Here I'll give you the condensed version.

They know the performance sucks on some machines. Fixing it requires some serious re-thinking of the game.

Rethinking takes time, a lot in this case.

So as to keep us all from getting bored and moving on to other games, someone at Mojang is giving us fluff to keep the worlds interesting.

And lastly......If you work at Mojang, no matter what you attempt to fix. Your doing it wrong. Even if you actually fix a problem, someone....somewhere will not like it. They will find a forum, start a thread, and demand that on behalf of that one person this issue be fixed again!

Jeb has decided to opt out of that never ending, not winnable process.

Quote from Lahrmid

I want to make this crystal clear; I don't hate minecraft.

I hate this community.

Don't worry. It's not just these guys! I read D&D boards, BF play for free, this one, and several others. Same problems persist. The company only cares about their money, they never do what people want, and nothing ever gets fixed. I would wager to say that in the history of the internet message board. Nothing has ever gotten done.

Quote from King Korihor

There is a difference between what is charitably called "bitching" or just complaining because you hate something and some objective criticism that gets into specifics about why you don't like how it works. Even better is something more like constructive criticism where not only do you point out specific details, but how it could be improved in a realistic fashion.

Pointing out bugs that simply shouldn't be there (especially game crashing situations which make the game simply unplayable) or very odd behavior that impacts previous game play in a negative manner is certainly worth mentioning.

Far too often what I see is just complaints about the game because it is a change, or that unrealistic expectations are being made by certain players critical of Mojang. Often it is complaints (like those critical of the SP/MP merger) who are just plain ignorant of what is going on. None of those kind of complaints are helpful to improving the game at all.

We do mention how it can be improved, and there's proof it would please the whole community.

Quote from grommen

Ok one of the 4 said they were working on performance issues. He said that the game does not run the way they want it to on new machines. He then said that the game has been programed to run on quite old machines as well. That in and of it's self is half the problem. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to make your game work for a large base of people. However it's going to take a lot of work to make the game run right for us all. Perhaps they need to narrow their focus a bit. Perhaps not focus on making the game run on PET computers as well (yes that was a very old man joke).

Bah, why are you focusing on such newfangled devices like a Commodore PET? Put it on a real computer like ENIAC or Colossus!

OK, if you are more into retro computing, it might be fun to put a port of Minecraft on the Raspberry Pi, or perhaps the DCPU-16!

Actually, I think somebody did try to port Minecraft on the DCPU-16.

That tells me that they know about the damm lagg, and it's a lot bigger problem than changing a few lines of code. It sounds to me like they took a look a the client, and then realized that it all has to go. Even harder they can't just scrap the hole thing and start over because the game is already out. I would not envy this task were it me.

So it looks like the road to the API is longer than thought.

1. One code to rule them all.
2. Make the game work for them all.
3. Finish the Mod API

What I'm saying is in order to get to the goal you have to put the steps in place to get there.. You can't just shove a 350 small block chevy into a Mini Cooper without also installing a transmission and drive train that can take it. You will just brake something else in the process.

So that is the problem. It looks like a short list, but every task is very long. If you put out the API before the merge, you would have to code it twice. If you do it before the performance problems are fixed one thing might break the other. They need a good solid performing engine before they make it modifiable. That way they know what they can allow to be tinkered with. This is going to take a lot of time.

So now If they all simply worked on the performance, merge, and bug issues, and then put out a new update when all that was done. We would still be looking for our first update in over a year. How mad would people be then. After a week or two away from a new update you see threads on here posting "When will the X.X.X update come out it's been too long!" Don't believe me, just look what happens when they don't do a snapshot update. So someone has to do small projects, give us fluff, short term goals, wile they work on the bigger, long term things.

I still think that the API could be developed and released in little bits and pieces with a whole bunch of user feedback on the tiny steps rather than holding off with the API until it is complete. Basic parts of the API certainly could be done independent of the major overhaul parts of the game like redoing the rendering engine or even implementing cubic chunks (in theory giving unlimited height maps).

Dynamic mod loading alone would be worth the hassle, along with implementing a basic way to install recipes or doing other things that are already a part of the user-created API libraries like ModLoader and Forge. Not everything in those existing APIs even needs to be done, but having *something* is certainly worth the effort. It wouldn't take that much time, and as soon as some of those features are implemented it would take some pressure off of the independent API libraries to be working on other things instead and at least promote some kind of cross API compatibility.

Regardless of how advanced Mojang makes the API, there will certainly be some people wanting to "push the envelope" and do things that go beyond anything being done in the API requiring genuine modification of the game by tweaking base classes. That at first almost everybody would be tweaking the base classes for mods is sort of irrelevant. It gives a foundation to work with and sets up a pattern that the user community could be following in terms of what aspects of popular mods or even "typical" mods might need.

Some things in the game will need to be frozen in terms of what kind of data structures should be in the game, and it is better to declare that certain parts of the game will be frozen in terms of what other kinds of changes will be taking place. At some point in the future, there could still be major overhauls of key parts of the game including stuff that is in the API. That the API itself could change and some parts of the API depreciated is something that should also be expected. That is simply called software development.

Of the various reasons given for not putting out the API already, the one that makes the most sense is trying to improve the bug tracking system for Mojang. What is especially awesome about this is that it will apply to not just Minecraft but to all of the Mojang games. I am especially interested in seeing how the "MAP" (Minecraft API Proposals) process will finally be implemented as it is something critical for the development of the API as well. A meta discussion about how proposals should be made can be found here:

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1391490-feedback-wanted-minecraft-api-proposal-system/

The thread has died down, but some really good ideas were presented there as well. Developing the API is going to be an ongoing process, not something thrown down and declared done all as of one update.

All I know know is that I got my $27 worth of this game and a lot more. I'm not a gamer, I usually play a game for a couple hours and never touch it again.

But I have been playing Minecraft for over 9 months straight (almost everyday) and each new snapshot and update is like a Christmas present. Thanks Mojang for the work you are doing!

Quote from ChaosGuardian

And what happens if we don't complain? Nothing! They want feedback? There it is.

And what happened when we did complain? Nothing! End of story.