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  • 1

    posted a message on Collabrotive Suggesting- The Fourth Dimension (all welcome)

    Yeah, I don't think a biome as an entrance is a good idea.


    Think of the current dimensions. The Nether requires obsidian, which requires lava and water, both of which can be found everywhere. The End is definitely dependent on luck to find on your own, but there is a way to track them via Eyes of Ender (there is some luck required to make them, as finding Endermen and Blazes can be a bit difficult, but in most worlds both are easy to find). A biome would be incredibly luck-based, especially with current biome generation algorithms involving temperature, and would be incredibly frustrating to find (imagine if finding a woodland mansion was required to get to the End, and there were no cartographers). Not to mention that a new biome would change the world generator, resulting in a visible seam between old chunks and new.

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Minecraft 2, Part 4: The Crafting (Updated 9/15/17)

    <Previous | Minecraft 2, Part 4: | Next>

    Crafting

    Introduction

    One thing that has always annoyed me about Minecraft is just how short the progression is. You punch a log, make a crafting table, make some tools and a furnace, and then it's pretty much just get some diamonds and make an enchanting table. The anvil is pointless, brewing is largely ignored, and even the furnace is never is improved as the player progresses. The game tries to pad the gameplay by making a lot of grinding involved in "beating" the game, but this largely just encourages the use of farms and abusing the generation to get good equipment early. I personally feel that's not how the game is supposed to be played.

    My goal for Minecraft 2 is to make a long base game while resorting to artificial padding as little as possible. One way I plan to accomplish this is to lengthen and improve the various crafting systems of the game. I always did like how Minecraft crafting was unique, and I don't plan to change that, but some of the more advanced systems could use a bit of an overhaul.


    Crafting Your Equipment the Way You Want

    All the crafting systems from Minecraft return in this sequel, but several of them are overhauled to make them more useful. At first, your only method of crafting is the 2x2 grid in your inventory, but you'll quickly unlock more ways to build your equipment.

    One thing to note is that while most recipes can be crafted from the start as long as you have the station and the materials, some recipes are locked and require the player to obtain a blueprint (attempting to craft these recipes will show a silhouette of the product with a question mark over it to let you know this makes something, but you don't have the knowledge to do so). This will encourage exploration and tackling different scenarios to unlock all the recipes.


    The Crafting Tables

    Something that always irked me about crafting tables was that they were so cheap. Literally all you need is one unit of one of the easiest blocks to obtain in the game and then you suddenly have access to 99% of the game's recipes. What's the point of even making advanced crafting require a block in that case?

    To fix this, I plan to make the crafting table a bit more expensive, though not very much, and once you have access to your first crafting table you should be established enough that it shouldn't be difficult to make more of them. The new recipe is as follows:


    W F
    L W


    W=Wood, F=Flint, L=Leather. Note that anywhere you can get wood you should also be able to get these other two materials, albeit they are more difficult to obtain.


    Requiring flint and leather now requires the player to do a bit of exploring and adds some additional challenge to getting established. To reduce the annoyance of getting flint from gravel, the first gravel block a player breaks is guaranteed to drop flint. The player can also get leather from a larger variety of animals, including pigs and sheep.


    The crafting GUI is the same as it is now, giving a 3x3 crafting grid and having a recipe book icon. This is used to craft basic recipes that should require some investment to make rather than the simple recipes of the 2x2 crafting grid. Later in the game, you can also unlock a 4x4 Enhanced Crafting Table, made by surrounding a crafting table with iron blocks, and late game you can make a 5x5 Advanced Crafting Table using some expensive resources from one of the new dimensions. Having larger crafting grids allows for more complex and expensive recipes and discourages carrying a whole base in your pocket.


    The Furnace
    The furnace is one of the most useful blocks in Minecraft, as it lets the player cook food and smelt ore. However, while you are given the option of different types of fuel to use, one almost always chooses coal (or charcoal early game) due to how cheap it is and how long it burns. I plan to have Minecraft 2 include more fuels than its predecessor, and plan to make them more unique by giving them all three values rather than just one:

    • Burn Time: This is the time in seconds the fuel burns for. This is the same as the current value.
    • Smelt Speed: All smeltable items have their own "Smelt Time" stat (for example, a steak takes less time to cook than some ore). A fuel's smelt speed stat is a modifier that reduces this time. A smelt speed of 2 means that this fuel smelts items twice as fast.
    • Quality: Higher quality fuels yield more product per smelting operation. A fuel with a quality of 2 will provide twice as much product than a fuel with a quality of 1. Quality only affects smelting ore; cooking food will always yield only as much as you put in.
    For example:
    • Wood is cheap and is terrible in all respects.
    • Coal has a long burn time but a slow smelt speed and a low quality. Charcoal is a bit faster and has a slightly better quality.
    • Blaze rods burn out quick, but smelt quickly and have slightly above-average quality.
    • Lava burns for quite a while, but also smelts slowly, and its quality is terrible.

    The furnace GUI consists of three main parts: the fuel slot on the left, the ore slot(s) in the middle, and the output slot on the right. There's also a meter for each slot. The fuel meter tells how long the current fuel will remain burning. It's a brighter yellow for higher-quality fuels, and the brightness of the meter pulses, with slower pulses meaning longer burn time. Each ore slot has a meter under it, saying how long it will continue to smelt before a unit of the ore is depleted. The output meter displays how long until one ingot is produced.


    There are three types of furnaces. The Basic Furnace is crafted like the current furnace and has one ore slot. The Enhanced Furnace is crafted with 12 bricks in a square on an Enhanced Crafting Table and has two ore slots, as well as burns 50% longer. The Advanced Furnace requires some of the new materials from one of the new dimensions and an Advanced Crafting Table. It has four ore slots, burns 50% longer than a Basic Furnace, and has a 25% quality rating bonus for fuels.


    To begin smelting, place an ore in an available ore slot and a fuel in the fuel slot. Once the smelting process begins, one unit of each of the ores will be moved out of the corrosponding ore slot and into the smelting indicator below each slot. The output meter will begin to fill up, and when it does, you will get an ingot, or ingots, depending on what you put in. If you use the same ore, you can smelt a lot faster and efficiently. If you use different ores, you can get special alloys that will be more powerful than the sum of its parts. However, invalid combinations will result in you just getting the weakest ingot, so be careful.

    The Anvil

    I personally have always found anvils to be annoying. They are one of the most expensive crafting stations in the game, requiring a ridiculous amount of iron to obtain, and yet, unlike every other crafting station in the game, they can break, and the rate at which this will happen is determined solely by luck, meaning they can break in as little as three uses. These mechanics, along with their repair mechanic being rendered largely obsolete with the addition of mending, means that I have found anvils to be mostly pointless in my playthroughs.


    I plan to fix this by requiring anvils to be used to make weapons and armor. You can still craft "rudimentary" wooden and stone equipment as well as leather armor at a crafting table, but equipment of iron tier and above now require some investment to make. Anvils look similar to what they currently do, are still effected by gravity, and have the same recipe, but never break.


    The anvil GUI has been significantly changed:


    You can place up to two types of materials in most recipes: one type for red slots, and another for blue slots. The exception is armor, which can only be made from one material. This gives you some customizability, for example, have a gold hilt with an iron blade. As you can see, this makes equipment more expensive, but also adds in more customizability, and with the quality modifier of furnaces it won't take much longer to get what you need.


    The third tab consists of two slots and is used to upgrade, repair, rename, and apply enchantment gems to weapons and armor.


    To help compensate for the hike in cost, your equipment doesn't permanently break anymore. Once something reaches 50% of durability, it starts being less effective. Tools take longer to break blocks, armor provides fewer armor points, and weapons do less damage. When an item breaks, a broken version of the item replaces it, and it can no longer be used until it is repaired. To repair something, simply put the item on the anvil and add more of the item's base (slot 1) material in the second slot. This will also cost 1-5 levels, depending on how many times the player has repaired that item already.


    You can also use anvils to upgrade a currently existing item. Each tier has its own unique trait, and thus instead of crafting a new item out of a more powerful tier, you may want to upgrade an item of an older tier to keep its trait. To do that, simply take the item you want and place 8 units of the material of the desired tier in the second slot. The item will become "gilded" with the upgraded tier, increasing its stats, but mantaining its traits. Note that while cheaper than creating a whole new item, upgrading an item is no replacement for crafting one. The durability is not increased, and they don't get any additional enchantment sockets.


    You can rename any item by putting it in the anvil and typing a name into the textbox. Doing so costs one experience level.


    There will also be a red recipe book, which you can use to see what each part does and the different material traits that you have discovered.


    Anvils are also required to apply enchantment gems to items, which I'll detail in the next section.


    The Enchanting Table
    A couple of diamonds, some obsidian, and a book are still all that is required to make this classic. However, enchanting has been changed significantly. I never liked the randomness of the enchanting system, as this was one of many things that encouraged grinding. The recent change to their mechanics was a welcome addition, at least for me, but I still feel there's too much luck involved. Instead, I propose changing enchanting to a system of sockets and enchanted gems.

    The GUI is now comprised of three slots: the lapis slot, the gem slot, and the output slot. There is also a purple recipe book icon. You make an enchantment gem by placing several of the desired gem into the gem slot and an equal amount of lapis in the lapis slot. Once you do, you'll see an experience counter detailing how many levels it costs to enchant this gem. More powerful enchantments require more levels to create. In addition, there are three sizes of enchantment gems: small requires four gems, medium requires 16, and large requires 32 gems, but each size is significantly more powerful than the previous. However, as each size requires more experience to make than the last, you may not be able to do the enchantment right away, as enchantment tables have a cap on the amount of experience you can use in a single operation. To increase this cap, you will have to add bookshelves.


    To apply an enchantment, you will have to go put it and an item with at least one open socket on an anvil. All items crafted at an anvil have sockets, from 2-6. This will consume a number of experience levels based on the quality of the item to enchant, the number of enchantments it already has, and the enchantment being applied. This means that late game enchanting can become really expensive, costing upwards of 50 levels with end-game equipment. You can also stack the same enchantment multiple times, though an enchantment that will be stacked costs much more to apply. Note that the application of enchantments is permanent, so choose carefully.


    Enchantment gems will not have the same effect on all pieces of equipment. For example, a diamond enchantment might give weapons more damage, but give armor more durability. I'll get more into detail when I talk about the specifics of each gem when I discuss caving.


    The purple recipe book in the enchanting GUI can be used to see what each gemstone does.


    The Brewing Stands

    I don't know about you, but I have never once brewed a potion in Minecraft. Potions are clunky and often underpowered. To fix this, you drink potions twice as fast, are no longer slowed down by them, and they stack to 4. To balance this out, instant health and instant harming are no longer obtainable, and consuming a second potion within 30 seconds of another will give you nausea for 30 seconds. In addition, splash potions are replaced with tipped arrows, which are made by combining one arrow with a potion. Tipped arrows are heavy and don't fly far, but will give the effect of the potion to whoever it hits. If it misses, it will break and create a splash of a weaker version of the effect at the impact point.

    There are three types of brewing stands. The Basic Brewing Stand can only brew one potion at a time, can't brew higher-level potions, and requires fuel to use (any fuel can be used, and burn time and smelt speed are considered, but not quality). It is crafted with two iron bars and three smooth stone in an upside-down T. The Enhanced Brewing Stand is crafted by combining a now much-rarer blaze rod with the Basic Brewing Stand. It can brew two potions at a time, can brew Tier II potions, and fuel burns twice as long. The Advanced Brewing Stand is crafted with some expensive materials from one of the new dimensions (like the Advanced Crafting Table) and can brew three potions at once, can brew Tier III potions, and doesn't need fuel to brew.


    Brewing a potion no longer requires nether wart (which is going to be more difficult to initially obtain anyway), so brewing can be made use of early on (you'll need it!). Instead, nether wart is used to upgrade a potion from Tier I to Tier II. It is also required to combine potions. To combine potions, place both the potions into a cauldron, which will make a brown liquid. Place a number of nether warts into the cauldron equal to the sum of the tiers (two Tier I potions requires two, one Tier I and one Tier III requires four, etc.). Next, hit the cauldron with a flint and steel to start the boiling process. When the potion is ready (which can take anywhere from 30-90 seconds), it will change color. When this happens, use an empty bottle to scoop out the new combined potion. Time it well, as if you do it too early, the potion will be weakened, and if you do it too late, the potion will have a lower duration. You will get a mundane potion, which just gives you nausea, if you add too much or not enough nether wart, try to combine a potion that has already been combined, or remove the potion way too early or late. I'm also considering having certain secret effects that can only be created by combining different potions together, so experiment!


    Upgrading a potion from Tier II to Tier III requires a rare end-game ingredient.


    A blue recipe book icon on the brewing GUI will tell you what all the ingredients and effects that you have discovered do


    Minecraft 2 doesn't include any new crafting stations, as anything I could think of was either too complicated or could just be combined into an existing station. There is clearly going to have to be some changes in balancing with the differences in resource costs, but I've kept these in mind when designing the other game mechanics, so hopefully nothing gets too tedious.

    Posted in: Suggestions
  • 1

    posted a message on Collabrotive Suggesting- The Fourth Dimension (all welcome)
    Quote from fishg»

    Before I wasn't completely into the frost theme, but now that I've seen that I'm onboard.

    So since it's apparent that frost is going to at least be involved, we should consider adding any new ideas from the other themes, as AMPPL50 suggested. For example, we could have structures resembling a ruined city, steampunk gear, or a prehistoric mob. The frost idea isn't that defined at the moment- we don't even know how hard its going to be.

    An idea for the frost dimension.
    I'd suggest one of the dimension's primary resources be "crystals". Crystals would come in multiple colors, and providing colored light. They would be semi-transparent but very strong, a bit less than obsidian.

    In retrospect, it's a buffed version of glowstone that provides colored light. :unsure::unsure:


    Since steampunk and space seem tied for second place, how about:

    A frozen steampunk dimension...in space!

    I'm on board with colored crystals and colored light, though for that we'd need yet another lighting engine rewrite. Colored lighting is technically currently possible, but it's kind of hacky and doesn't work with smooth lighting (or shaders, I'd imagine).

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Collabrotive Suggesting- The Fourth Dimension (all welcome)
    Quote from fishg»

    A steampunk themed dimension certainty would be interesting. It'd would a new environment we haven't seen before. I would suggest if we went through with this, it'd be entirely populated by robots and machines, bringing up the question where did all the living things go.


    Likewise, a more combat-based dimension already provides a use in game- late game XP grinding. Post-ender dragon players could go here to fight even more powerful enemies, which in turn would provide more XP for more powerful weapons. If we went with a post-end dimension, the whole progression system needs to be rethought. There gets to a point when players need to upgrade past multi-enchanted diamond swords/tools. But if that happened, the weapons would be ridiculously OP and server PVP would be ruined. I can think of multiple ways around this, but they all have serious disadvantages that make the new weapons underpowered.


    All in all though I like the idea of a steampunk (with a hint of cyberpunk) based combat focused dimension that might serve as a late game "arcade" for those who wants some extra buffs. I could imagine an entire dimension that's effectively a huge dungeon.



    I think this dimension should have a unique transit system. The nether has buildable portals, and the end has a naturally spawning portal. For this dimension, how about an item, not a portal, can take one in and out of the world? You would have to be away from any mobs (similar to sleeping in beds) for this to work though.


    The item could naturally spawn in chests inside a new structure in the End, or could be craftable using late-game materials.


    How about, since this is a steampunk dimension, a train?

    Once you've obtained dragon breath you can use it on a minecart with furnace. The furnace will burn brightly, and then it will shoot forward pushing any minecarts ahead of it with it, including any players or mobs within. After about maybe 50 blocks, the train will be teleported to a safe location in the new dimension. This can be repeated to go between dimensions, and you can find dragon breath in some chests in the new dimension (so you don't become stuck). However, as you explore the dimension, you can find materials to build a Hyperspeed Engine that can be used to build a minecart that can swap between dimensions at will and doesn't require fuel or track (however it cannot be used for travel within the dimensions).
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Collabrotive Suggesting- The Fourth Dimension (all welcome)

    Well, this certainly looks interesting. If the idea takes off perhaps this kind of thread can be used to help new users get their feet wet.


    As for the dimension, I've got two ideas for a theme.


    Cyber/futuristic: This dimension is technologically advanced, but also very hostile. The player would deal with robots, or perhaps some kind of alien, and would be able to get more advanced materials here, which could perhaps be used to make machinery of some kind. It would act as a gateway to more post-End content.


    Steampunk: This is essentially the Cyber idea but more closely fits Minecraft's context. The dimension is a giant mechanical city sprawling infinitely on the horizontal axes. I imagine that this place would be full of roaming automatons. This would be more of a mid-to-end-game content dimension, where the player isn't expected to defeat the Ender Dragon first.

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Uploading screenshots

    Alternatively, if your picture isn't huge, you can just save it as an attachment on your posts by clicking the "upload an image" button on the bottom or dragging it there.


    If you want your image in your post, after you've submitted the post you can right-click the attached picture and click "Open in new tab." A new page will open with just the image with the image URL in the address bar. You can then edit your post and add the picture using the URL.


    Posted in: Forum Discussion & Info
  • 1

    posted a message on New /gamerule
    Quote from Cerroz»

    Not seeing how hunger makes a good comparison next to combat.

    It's a perfect comparison—it was something that was hated at release by a significant portion of people that people wanted to be made optional, and it became so in the form of peaceful difficulty and later the saturation effect.

    Where the hell did you get that line of thinking from? This is a dangerous, flimsy line of thinking. This wouldn't even apply at all to a class-based multiplayer game, because the bad balance will stick out and ruin someone's day despite how much "fun" there was supposed to be.

    I originally mentioned this when I was writing the post for the first time, but then my browser crashed and I forgot to put it in again.

    Anyway, balance does matter in a multiplayer game—because, as you said, poor balance will ruin the fun of players. It still comes down to making the game as fun as possible. Making the game too hard or too easy (shifting the balance) will also hurt the player's overall fun with the game, as the lack of a challenge fails to stimulate the player's interest and making it too hard will annoy them and cause them to rage quit. You have to find the point of balance where the fun is at its peak, not the other way around. With a game as large as Minecraft, however, there is no one sweet spot, and so you give the individual players customization options so they can find that sweet spot for themselves.


    I thought I explained all of this already. Because durrherpclickyclickyspamspam gameplay wasn't very appealing and skill-based.



    To you. You don't represent the entire player base.



    I wouldn't complain if Mojang added a goofy combat gamerule, but it'd be a very goofy move. And the way things look now, it looks like new combat is here to stay. People have been complaining about this a long time and it seems Mojang isn't budging. I'm sure Mojang knew the boiling 1.9 hate was gonna happen even before they made the update.



    I'm sure they assume every new feature is going to get some hate. However, I wouldn't blame them if they didn't realize just how much hate this feature would get.

    But it now involves actually planning and timing instead of beating your mouse to death and getting an auto-win.

    I find shields to be much more of an auto-win than spam clicking ever was. It was balanced when it was added, but now it's been buffed to the point that I have yet to die in 1.12. In fact, when combined with the OP health regeneration, I'd say combat now is even less balanced than it was in 1.8.


    Stiiiiill pretty different from always-there-no-matter-what combat...



    It's the closest comparison there is. An always-there-no-matter-what- lack of any real death consequence is significant enough to prove my point. If you don't believe me, provide some actual counter argument

    Why did Mojang change the combat int he first place? To troll us? To feed off our rage?

    Why does Mojang add anything to the game? Because, for better or worse, they want to. In the end our opinions don't matter if Mojang feels different; they won't add anything if they don't want to and you'll have to convince them otherwise to get your feature in.


    Is the new combat really all that bad? Is it bad because it's just objectively terribly done? Or is it bad because people just don't like the change from easy combat to more-effort combat? Again, we have shields which balances it out. Actually, we have two hand slots overall.



    I don't find either system of combat to be harder or easier than the other. It boils down to a matter of preference. So, why is your preference so important that others can't have theirs?

    1.9 combat isn't bad. In fact, I'll go as far as to say it's objectively good, because even if it didn't add enough, it did add some variety. But, it doesn't matter how good it is if you aren't having fun with it.

    It really doesn't take that much skill to get used to the new combat... You can still spam jumping/critical hits like the player character's restless legs did a bump of coke. Sometimes "a lot of people dun like it" is not a very good reason. Sometimes the problem is the players and not so much the devs.

    The players are the ones paying the devs and are the people whom the game is made for. They should be listened to, even if the problem is with them.

    A lot of reasons you've provided are good reasons not to revert 1.9's combat, but they aren't good reasons to deny any kind of compromise. That's why you give any kind of compromise, because "a lot of people dun like" the original concept. We, along with the devs, aren't objective thinkers, so to our knowledge, neither choice is right.

    Also, explain to me how a lot of people not liking something isn't a good reason in this case. If that were true, then even if 100% of players disliked the 1.9 combat it shouldn't be reverted if it was objectively better.
    Posted in: Suggestions
  • 3

    posted a message on combat in 1.9 good or bad?
    Quote from Mastermined»

    Yes, but the cooldown can already be 'disabled' using commands. Just not in the way people want it to be.
    The benefit of the current method of using NBT data is that it makes the system infinitely more customizable. Want a regular sword with .6 seconds delay? Don't change anything. Do you want a sword that strikes faster, but still has some cooldown? Set it to .3 seconds. Want to simulate a Dark Souls like experience for a custom map, where attacks are slow and deliberate? Set the cooldown to 1.5 seconds or higher on swords.
    All of this can already be achieved. Easily. Working with commands isn't hard anymore because of the internet, video tutorials, and command generators that can construt every command you'd want for you automatically. All the work the player has to do is a few seconds up to a few minutes of Googling, and pasting a command into a Command block. That's it.
    And not only is it simple, it goes a lot deeper and more varied than just a "Cooldown on/off" toggle. I'm not against player customizability. But I am against half-baked customizability. And adding in a simple toggle for something that can already be done in-game but a million times more optionsto fully customize the experience.

    Let's say I was just some random casual player who hadn't played in a few years and decided to just pick it up again. However, I suddenly find myself unable to kill anything and want to know why. Eventually looking through the history on the wiki I find out about the cooldown. I try to work with it in mind, but I just don't find it fun and I want to know how to disable it. I search the wiki to see if there's a gamerule for it, as I know about them, having used keepInventory for a while. However, no such gamerule exists. I then search online, and after finding a site that isn't just a video and looks reputable, I find a site with what I need. I try it out and spend the next in-game day finding a discreet location to put the command blocks and dropping my weapons on the ground, just to find out it doesn't work because the command works only in 1.9. I then spend another hour cleaning up the command blocks and then after much more searching find something that will work for the current version. It works, but I can only make stuff without a cooldown when I'm in the Overworld. It's also a bit laggy and is still very inconvenient. I continue to deal with it for a while, but bam, 1.13 comes out and now I have to repeat the process all over again. It's a convoluted process and to say that this is some substitute for a gamerule sounds like you have no actual experience how complicated working with commands and command blocks can actually be. And, remember, it'd be much simpler to implement a gamerule as it would probably just be a few lines of code.

    Anyway, consider this. With commands, we can now emulate gamerules such as mobLoot, mobSpawning, keepInventory, doDaylightCycle, etc. Should we remove these gamerules because we have a more customizable workaround? Both can exist in harmony. If you only want to disable all mob loot, you can use the gamerule; if you just want to disable creeper loot, you can use commands. If you want to completely disable the attack cooldown, you should be able to just use the gamerule, and use commands if you want something more complex/customizable (though, like I said before, we can have it like a multiplier, where /gamerule 0.5 results in half the cooldown, rendering most of the customizability of commands obsolete).

    And finally, with Functions now being a thing, and custom crafting recipes being added in the near future. It won't be long until you can just download a resource pack that disables/customizes cooldown for you. just download the pack, plop it into your Resource Packs folder, and every sword you craft will contain the Correct NBT data from then on.
    We've moved on from simple gamerules and on/off toggles.

    You're still required to download something, which means it falls under the category of a mod and is thus not a valid excuse on this forum. We can currently use a mod or even a command block creation for many of the suggestions on this forum, but that doesn't mean the suggestion is irrelevant.

    Just because gamerules are simple doesn't mean they're bad. In programming, the Boolean is one of, if not the most common type of variable out there; its use hasn't been deprecated just because we have more customizable variable types like floats. When a simple and a complicated solution both exist with the same output, it's always best to go for the simpler method.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Will this computer run Minecraft?

    That's pretty similar to my machine. It'll run, but the more recent versions will be kind of laggy. You'll probably need to run Optifine to get a playable FPS.

    Posted in: Computer Science and Technology
  • 1

    posted a message on combat in 1.9 good or bad?
    Quote from DrWeegee»

    A cooldown gamerule is different from other gamerules due to what group of players it targets. It would have to be balanced because unlike other gamerules who's target is to please map-makers, builders, etc. a cooldown gamerule would have to ensure it suits survival/PvP player needs, and thus needs to actually be balanced around the game, unlike other gamerules.

    That's why the glaring issues of using gamerules like daylight cycle, health regen, mob loot/spawning and such wouldn't need to be patched or bugtested while the issues with only the gamerule of removing the combat mechanics would have to be extensively tested with other features.

    Who says that Mojang has to test a gamerule if it's not aimed towards mapmakers? There's no prerequisite.

    Besides, the only major gamerule that needs to be added is one to remove the combat timer. Even if they really did have to extensively test it, they'd only have to test whatever had to do with combat for balance, which likely wouldn't even matter too much since Minecraft isn't about combat and already has a lot of unbalanced combat anyway. It's not that much more of a workload, especially since they have thousands of players testing the snapshots.

    That being said, my personal reason for being against it is because it shows Mojang is willing to back down on their changes when yelled at, and you'd end up with "Shadow the Hedgehog", where they gave him guns and stuff simply because someone thought of it at the top of their head. It shows weakness in a way.

    I mean, sure you have to please the fanbase, but you can't just be adding (Or removing) everything a 9 year old says off the top of his head to a game. Most of the outrage was caused by knee-jerk reactions.

    "Knee-jerk" outrage doesn't effect ~37% of players and stay relevant for more than a year.

    However, we're not saying that Mojang needs to back down. We're demanding a compromise—one that's actually feasible for the average player and doesn't require a convoluted command block structure. We want people to be able to play how they want.

    Quote from Mastermined»


    This.
    It might ba a slippery slope argument, but I don't care. Mojang shouldn't make updates to the game optional. Because as soon as they make one new feature optional, people are gonna wanna have everything optional. And at that point Mojang might as well stop making new updates altogether, because there will always be a group of people, no matter how small, that dislike something and want it removed/made optional. You can't please everyone without dragging down the quality of the game, and Mojang should stick to their guns and implement what they want to implement, without having to make sure it's also optional for the minority that dislikes a feature.
    I am so happy they seem to be doing this exact thing, so far.


    This isn't a small minority. If the poll is accurate, it's around 37%—more than a third of players. At what point do we consider the line to be between a group that is "a minority that can be ignored" and a group whose opinion matters?

    Think about this: every single update since 1.4 seems to cater to mapmakers in some capacity. However, mapmakers are a great minority to the game. Yet, for some reason, this group gets more attention than any other group consistently, even getting major portions of the game rewritten for their sakes. Why should mapmakers get anything they want despite being such a small group, and yet a much larger group can't get the one compromise they want?

    Besides, Mojang has already made quite a few features optional, as Ptolemy2002 said. Yet, I don't see people constantly begging for other features they don't like to be optional. So, yes, that's a slippery slope fallacy that has no bearing on this argument.
    Quote from Mastermined»

    It already is partially optional though!
    NBT tags allow you to freely customize weapon cooldown, and set it to whatever delay you want. You can keep it at the default .6 seconds, lower it to 0 to completely remove cooldown, or maybe even higher the cooldown to 1 second or higher if you want people to make really slow and deliberate attacks in a custom map. The system in place is a bit more obscure, but infinitely more customizable than a gamerule or a different kind of toggle would be.

    That's another reason why I'm against adding in a gamerule, or making the Combat Update optional. The new system is already highly flexible and customizable, but people constantly ignore that part for some reason...

    Because, as this post points proves...
    Quote from DrWeegee»

    I've made a command to revert combat that does exactly this. It's outdated, so it only works in 1.9, but you can see it here (Command converters to like 1.12 or whatever break it as well from experience):


    /summon FallingSand ~ ~1 ~ {Block:stone,Time:1,Passengers:[{id:FallingSand,Block:redstone_block,Time:1,Passengers:[{id:FallingSand,Block:activator_rail,Time:1,Passengers:[{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:gamerule commandBlockOutput false},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:"fill ~3 ~-2 ~ ~10 ~ ~3 purpur_block 0 hollow"},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:"fill ~3 ~-1 ~ ~10 ~-1 ~3 end_rod 1 replace purpur_block"},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~2 ~-2 ~1 wall_sign 4 replace {Text1:"{\\\"text\\\":\\\"Spam Clicking\\\",\\\"color\\\":\\\"black\\\"}",Text2:"{\\\"text\\\":\\\"enabled.\\\",\\\"color\\\":\\\"black\\\"}",Text3:"{\\\"text\\\":\\\"Drop the sword\\\",\\\"color\\\":\\\"black\\\"}",Text4:"{\\\"text\\\":\\\"to update it\\\",\\\"color\\\":\\\"black\\\"}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~2 ~-1 ~1 wall_sign 4 replace {Text2:"{\\\"text\\\":\\\"Destroy\\\",\\\"color\\\":\\\"dark_red\\\",\\\"bold\\\":true}",Text3:"{\\\"text\\\":\\\"Machine\\\",\\\"color\\\":\\\"dark_red\\\",\\\"bold\\\":true}",Text4:"{\\\"text\\\":\\\"\\\",\\\"clickEvent\\\":{\\\"action\\\":\\\"run_command\\\",\\\"value\\\":\\\"fill ~ ~-1 ~-1 ~8 ~1 ~2 air\\\"}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~4 ~-1 ~2 chain_command_block 1 replace {auto:1,Command:"/entitydata @e[type=Item,score_OldItems_min=5,score_OldItems=5] {Item:{id:diamond_sword,Count:1,tag:{AttributeModifiers:[{AttributeName:\\\"generic.attackDamage\\\",Name:\\\"generic.attackDamage\\\",Amount:7,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:425958,UUIDMost:108964,Slot:\\\"mainhand\\\"},{AttributeName:\\\"generic.attackSpeed\\\",Name:\\\"generic.attackSpeed\\\",Amount:1,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:170835,UUIDMost:965703,Slot:\\\"mainhand\\\"}]}}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~5 ~-1 ~2 chain_command_block 4 replace {auto:1,Command:"/scoreboard players set @e[type=Item] OldItems 5 {Item:{id:minecraft:diamond_sword}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~6 ~-1 ~2 chain_command_block 4 replace {auto:1,Command:"/entitydata @e[type=Item,score_OldItems_min=4,score_OldItems=4] {Item:{id:iron_sword,Count:1,tag:{AttributeModifiers:[{AttributeName:\\\"generic.attackDamage\\\",Name:\\\"generic.attackDamage\\\",Amount:6,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:425958,UUIDMost:108964,Slot:\\\"mainhand\\\"},{AttributeName:\\\"generic.attackSpeed\\\",Name:\\\"generic.attackSpeed\\\",Amount:1,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:170835,UUIDMost:965703,Slot:\\\"mainhand\\\"}]}}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~7 ~-1 ~2 chain_command_block 4 replace {auto:1,Command:"/scoreboard players set @e[type=Item] OldItems 4 {Item:{id:minecraft:iron_sword}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~8 ~-1 ~2 chain_command_block 4 replace {auto:1,Command:"/entitydata @e[type=Item,score_OldItems_min=3,score_OldItems=3] {Item:{id:stone_sword,Count:1,tag:{AttributeModifiers:[{AttributeName:\\\"generic.attackDamage\\\",Name:\\\"generic.attackDamage\\\",Amount:5,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:425958,UUIDMost:108964,Slot:\\\"mainhand\\\"},{AttributeName:\\\"generic.attackSpeed\\\",Name:\\\"generic.attackSpeed\\\",Amount:1,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:170835,UUIDMost:965703,Slot:\\\"mainhand\\\"}]}}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~9 ~-1 ~2 chain_command_block 4 replace {auto:1,Command:"/scoreboard players set @e[type=Item] OldItems 3 {Item:{id:minecraft:stone_sword}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~9 ~-1 ~1 chain_command_block 3 replace {auto:1,Command:"/entitydata @e[type=Item,score_OldItems_min=2,score_OldItems=2] {Item:{id:golden_sword,Count:1,tag:{AttributeModifiers:[{AttributeName:\\\"generic.attackDamage\\\",Name:\\\"generic.attackDamage\\\",Amount:4,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:425958,UUIDMost:108964,Slot:\\\"mainhand\\\"},{AttributeName:\\\"generic.attackSpeed\\\",Name:\\\"generic.attackSpeed\\\",Amount:1,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:170835,UUIDMost:965703,Slot:\\\"mainhand\\\"}]}}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~8 ~-1 ~1 chain_command_block 5 replace {auto:1,Command:"/scoreboard players set @e[type=Item] OldItems 2 {Item:{id:minecraft:golden_sword}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~7 ~-1 ~1 chain_command_block 5 replace {auto:1,Command:"/entitydata @e[type=Item,score_OldItems_min=1,score_OldItems=1] {Item:{id:wooden_sword,Count:1,tag:{AttributeModifiers:[{AttributeName:\\\"generic.attackDamage\\\",Name:\\\"generic.attackDamage\\\",Amount:4,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:425958,UUIDMost:108964,Slot:\\\"mainhand\\\"},{AttributeName:\\\"generic.attackSpeed\\\",Name:\\\"generic.attackSpeed\\\",Amount:1,Operation:0,UUIDLeast:170835,UUIDMost:965703,Slot:\\\"mainhand\\\"}]}}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~6 ~-1 ~1 chain_command_block 5 replace {auto:1,Command:"/scoreboard players set @e[type=Item] OldItems 1 {Item:{id:minecraft:wooden_sword}}"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~5 ~-1 ~1 chain_command_block 5 replace {auto:1,Command:"/gamerule commandBlockOutput false"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~4 ~-1 ~1 repeating_command_block 5 replace {auto:1,Command:"/scoreboard objectives add OldItems dummy"}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~ ~ ~1 command_block 0 replace {Command:fill ~ ~-3 ~-1 ~ ~ ~ air}},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:setblock ~ ~-1 ~1 redstone_block},{id:MinecartCommandBlock,Command:kill @e[type=MinecartCommandBlock,r=1]}]}]}]}

    It's also possible to directly edit items held, but I haven't found an easy way to do it, though I haven't looked too long.


    ...it's extremely complicated for the average player. Look at all that text it takes, and yet all it would take Mojang is a few lines of code. It also wouldn't break in every update, like the above command, and doesn't require being in the Overworld or dropping every item you get onto the ground.

    Besides, we don't need to get rid of the current system as well. We can have both, and everybody's happy.
    Posted in: Discussion
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