Minecraft Forums

Excuse me for butting in on the arguments here, but I would like to give my opinion on this one.

I like your reasoning, ghost, in that like villagers and villager-zombies (And players and humanoid-zombies, really) there should also be more friendly pigmen as there are unfriendly zombie-versions already present. What I do NOT like however is what SVGK refers to as the "relaxed approach" that you have come to make use of on several aspects, like there being gold-furniture. Though neat, it makes absolutely no bloody sense!

To be completely honest, I have sat down and thought hard about judging a suggestion, before and now. As I have come to view it, a bad idea for vanilla Minecraft is something that either:

A: Is without context, like guns and jukebox-golems, Pistonium is another favorite here.

B: Something lazy that only serves as shortcuts for vanilla, often with a generic name to go with it, like adding the prefix -Ender to something to make it teleport you and negate the usage of Netherportals.

C: Features that do not relate to vanilla at all and completely overruns existing features for the greater of the own idea, often unbalancing the systems already present. Some of spaceboot's classics fit into this one as well.

As you can see, these aspects really doesn't rhyme with vanilla and are often harmful to it. And as you also have the ability to see, much of what is present in this suggestion are completely trace-able to these trends. The Hellwheat being one of those, seeing as you approach both B and C, nerfing the use of fire-potions as well as basically pallet-swapping an existing feature of the game, wheat. If anything, use netherwarts instead.

Dealing with different opinions based on impressions is something regular on this sub-forum, and I wouldn't say that you are the most objective responder either, as you respond to their impressions of a "hellish Nether" with your "goofy" Nether, which in the end is only another impression. To be completely honest I must give SVGK some credit as he at least is somewhat objective in his observations. The Nether IS dangerous, and always was. This place is here to eat you alive and cook the remains in one of the many lavapools available 24/7. Adding too many comforts of home would really dampen this intensity that is the Nether.

A fun thing I realized is that you refuse to view the Nether as the obvious hell that it is, yet you name your crop Hell-wheat?

I think that for this idea to be considered a suitable addition for Vanilla you really need to work your concepts through, and take more advice from those that actually sit down and think about what you are suggesting. The removal of Hellwheat is a good start, and some aesthetic reworks on the buildings wouldn't hurt either (unlike gold, Quartz is actually a resident resource). If anything, I DO like your idea of a unique villager, the brewer, seeing as the Nether is basically where all the ingredients are at, and yes, red would most definitely suit it.

And something else that I did not see anywhere in the suggestion is how the villagers of the Nether get along with the monsters? Seeing as zombies and non-zombies despise each others in the regular world, why would the zombie-pigmen be any different to their breathing brothers? And what about defenses then?

Over-all this idea has some good and some bad qualities, not to mention great potential, should you take the time to work it through.

I would like to start off by criticizing those that decline this idea with the argument that Minecraft is a game focused on PvE and singleplayer. You can't get much more wrong than that. Minecraft is a game for everything, hence the name, (Sandbox?) and thus I think it is unfair of people focused on building to deny players that prefer PvP an actually interesting PvP-engine. Instead of always favoring one aspect, more blocks and aesthetics, how about some more intricate game-mechanics? PvP haven't been expanded upon since beta, that is if you don't count the nerfing of blocking, which was the epitome of nerf even at implementation-day and haven't really served a purpose since while practically ALL other aspects of the game has been improved since with the exception of skin-management.

And as much as I would love to see things like throwable slimeballs and firecharges, not to mention a more varied arsenal, we must prioritize the basics, as there currently are none.

I think that out of all the PvP-enhancements we have seen around this sub-forum recently, this one is the cleanest as well as the clearest way to improve combat in Minecraft, be it PvE or PvP. I sincerely hope that this will be acknowledged by Mojang and incorporated into the game, as it practially screams for change at this point. I support this wholeheartedly.

Quote from PuffinPuncher

Surely the ores can be added after the new stone when generating a new world though? It may require adding in variants of each ore where they appear in a different rock so that ore veins don't look ugly though.

-And that is when this idea would get messy. I suggest keeping it simple, and I have two alternate ways that I would suggest doing it.

First way would be by implementing these new types like with underground gravel and dirt. Let them cover up patches of stone, and deny ores to generate within these patches to avoid conflicting textures.

Second way would be by having the alternate stone generating in vast quantities of the total underground-levels of a biome, and make ores generate as usual within these masses, but surrounded by smaller patches of regular stone to avoid conflicting textures.

I for one would love to see these new types of stone take up the majority of the stone generated in a biome and thus making it more rewarding to mine at several locations, and to explore the world more frequently, should you find the need of a different stone-type. By doing it this way the stone will really add to the atmosphere of the different biomes, and by doing it the second way I proposed there wouldn't have to be new textures for each interface between stone and ore.

One thing that comes to mind about this is that alternative two could really alternate the way Minecraft looks, personally I would adore this diversity and change of atmosphere, but there would no doubt be persons of a different opinion.

This is an excellent idea. And the negative critic is completely irrelevant for all cases. The idea is not for the addition of colored blocks, it's for a more varied world-generator. This would give much more variation to exploring the underground, without the use of new ores. And the stone types could make for much more detailed and complex stone-buildings.

I view this as a good suggestion as it both implements more content for the creative player to play around with, as well as providing a new factor for diversity in the Minecraft environment.

I support this.

This is just another badly thought through OP suggestion, why is everyone posting here anyways?

This idea is absurd. Obsidian is supposed to be hard to get. It should only be possible to acquire post-diamond. With the 1.7-generator we have literal BEACHES and MOUNTAINS made out of gravel, both being fairly common and definitely not hard to find. By making lazy shortcuts like this one you will only hurt the game-experience.

Quote from koopachris

Anyway, DID you actually read anything about the items themselves? I take it not since you mentioned nothing about them individually or the whole underlying idea of them and just seem to have started blindly arguing against the whole ideas as soon as you saw the word "tier".

Sadly, as many has already pointed out, to you and others before you, Mojang have no interest in adding a new tier of armors or weapons, underlining weapons, it's not the material that is the problem, it's the "armor", or "weapon" part that resonates badly with "simple". It seems like an over all decent idea, but it's just not cut out for vanilla.

Quote from Deonyi

The problem with that is, unless they use a special language like Minecraftian, it would not cater to people of different languages. Thus, a language like Minecraftian should be added. It could also be used in the sound effects and in the chat. Villagers talking to you in chat... I claim that idea.

If A Minecraftian language was added, I would like to see it in written form. I for one favor Enchantment-language, or just outright gibberish! This could provide a "lore" for those kinds of people, a lore that can not be read. And even more mystery for those that enjoy the unknowing.

And I agree wholeheartedly that the book-and-quill interface is terrible, same goes for signs, really. Mind including the same changes to signs too?

Support.

One question from the perspective of post-implementation; Wood (see, I know this game too) this mean that resource-packers have six diferent textures to work with for chests and doors? Because if so I just realized that I support this even more! Just imagine the possibilities texture-wise! *drool*

You DO realize that the resource-pack-name for "Fish" is in fact fish_cod? I believe that even though Mojang decided to leave the name as is, if anything it was at least made to look like cod. I don't really see the issue with keeping it a mystery though.

Many of these insects would add a great atmosphere of life to Minecraft. I support this.

When you say that an RPG doesn't necessarily contradict with a sandbox you are sadly mistaken. Though it depends on the implementation, it also depends on the game-environment. When Minecraft is a game nearly meant to be a "clean slate", meaning that anyone can do anything to the game without hinders, adding as complex things as quests and above all, skill-levels, it would clearly have to interact with the rest of the game. And I can assure you, even though there are many of the same opinion as you, there will be just as many, if not more people that want to play without it.

Instead of turning it into this giant kingdom-business I know what just might work with the framework we are given. I think that instead of over-gloryfying it I would instead just turn it into a massive village with castle-walls. It could of course include new NPC's, that only spawn in such structures, as long as they are creative with their deals this could become really fun. And by making these structures as rare as the Strongholds, which I do believe is what you meant in the OP, the player would really have to go out of their way to locate these things. Maybe there could even be some sort of special biome for it, with raised monster-spawn-rate to make the seiges more advanced?

One little thing that intrigues me about your post is this; what would the "quests" you speak of even be? What I mean is, what would there actually be left to accomplish in the game post-achievments that actually could classify as a quest?

Sadly I believe that the problem with this idea that hinders it is just like everyone says, it would make a better mod than a vanilla-implementation, one of the reasons being the one I mentioned above. What really needs to be done is to complete the mod-API. This would (hopefully) do exactly what you wish for, optimizing updating of the mods, as well as making them all integrated with the game itself. Why the Mod-API is still not finished after their promises made during BETA is beyond me, since it is the one largest implementation they ever could do, the implementation of true freedom for everyone to play their own unique game, limited to their wishes only.

Quote from PuffinPuncher

Agreed, I think the parry is kind of the main feature of the suggestion here. The problem is getting it to both work well and not be overpowered, and then everything starts to get messy and complicated.

I say make it completely nullify melee-attacks and ranged-attacks, but only within a certain area of the screen, and it may only be held activate a set number of seconds before it must be redone. This way the player may completely block an incoming attack, but only if the parry is aimed at the direction the attack originated from, unless it is falldamage or explosive damage, in which case maybe a lesser damage-reduction would occur. A cooldown is of course in order for this as well.

Applying both this and a delay on repeated sword-strikes would make for a whole other level of competition between players. The use-times for both parry and strike would make for a lot more maneuverability and strategy, and thus PvP would no longer come down to who has the best hardware, but also what tricks and moves your opponent has up their sleeve, no shield or gimmicky weapons necessary.

Quote from PuffinPuncher

In the end it would probably still end up a bunny hopping lmb fest, just it would last twice as long. There would be a little room for more thought when engaging an enemy though, so I agree this is better than nothing.

Indeed. Though my point is that this would be the least complicated way of doing something to help the situation I am also positive it would have the potential to work well. Unless you by delaying attacks also delay people's brainwaves there will be a drastical difference in duels for example, with players given the time to react to a hit and are provided with the opportunity to dodge. I realize now though that such a feature is only half the implementation. For PvP to really become something I would like to see either a more well-thought through parry, or a sidestep.

The only thing Minecraft-pvp really needs is a delay for your attacks. Spamming block-click to win isn't really that elaborate. As soon as a delay for each swing is added, some real strategy and duelling can take place. The other ideas seem too cliché and mod-like to me.

And please. For the love of (insert love-able subject here)! To all those that say Minecraft is about Mining, Crafting and all that have obviously missed the point, or at least, the bigger point. - Minecraft is a game of freedom. Just as much as it could appear to be a post-apocalyptic semi-medieval free-roamer it is far from it. Thanks to our lovely community of modders, builders, redstoners, resourcepackers, RPers and so on, Minecraft should be considered a sandbox, if not THE sandbox. A platform where all sorts of game-simulations is-or-should-be possible! To say that it has just the one way to be played is just outright introvert and single-minded. Minecraft can be anything. And if there is any one item of interest for such a creativity-inspiring game it's how PvP is handled. PvP and combat forms the basis for many games, and to think that the game that pushes freedom the furthest has one of the most limited and restricted combat-system ever seems a bit weird, am I right?

The simplest way to address this issue would be for the implementation of a delay for swinging your sword. Anything more advanced than that would turn into a different topic alltogether, as it approaches the subject from an angle that will not solve the real problem at all. We don't need more gimmicks, we need fundaments. A more solid platform for melee, and of course, PvP.

I support the improvement of Minecraft PvP, anything else on the subject is just a give-or-take bonus.

Though not directly related I once had the idea of adding damage to crit-attacks done with melee based on the momentum of the player. This would add effect to the idea of "stomping". Maybe something to consider adding? This would mean that jumping off a cliff and hit your enemy in the head with the force of the fall actually deals more damage.

For the suggestion though, I support all of it. It adds a well needed mechanic to this game that can really improve how we percieve momentum in Minecraft.