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  • 0

    posted a message on MC Edit/World Gen question

    You can either use NBTExplorer to edit the seed in level.dat (saved under "RandomSeed"; note that this must be a number) and delete chunks as you did before or use MCEdit to copy your base to a new world (select the area and export as a schematic, then import into the new world, making sure that it is correctly aligned so terrain matches, and that the schematic does not extend outside of generated chunks). The former would be much easier to do since you'll lose everything in your inventory (including Ender chest) if you copy everything to a new world. However, if you delete chunks you also want to delete all the structure files (Mineshaft.dat, Village.dat, etc) inside the data folder so they regenerate correctly (otherwise they will have no mobs, chests, or spawners, and you may have extra structures which were recorded with a different seed generate), and make sure that the boundary between old and new chunks is mostly underwater or in biomes like plains or desert to minimize artifacts like cut-off trees (you'll also want to select the chunks along the southern and eastern edges and click on "repopulate", so it looks like this, to make sure that the game correctly populates new chunks next to them).

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on MC Edit/World Gen question

    Can you post a screenshot of these "vertical walls"? Do they look like this?

    Or like this?

    If you see the first example it is because you did not actually delete the chunks, only the blocks within them, which will turn them into empty chunks filled with only air. Otherwise, if the "walls" are limited to differences in terrain height and biomes are different on either side then it is due to a different seed and the original seed is likely forever lost unless you remembered it or wrote it down, but it sounds like you were able to recreate the world (did you use the "recreate" button or did you make a new world with a seed that you remembered or wrote down? If the latter, the original world may have a different seed if you recovered it by replacing level.dat with a different file, which will change the seed unless you used the same one).

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Newbie to minecraft?
    Quote from Toadrunner»

    As I've posted before, Minecraft runs fine for me except sometimes when I travel too far in one sitting. Apparently loading too many scenes uses up all my memory and I start to get lag. In order to keep playing I have to save and quit the game and re-start.

    After I discovered the teleport cheat to get back to my base, I have been using it to transport resources from far-away mines to my home base. When I do this, I have to load up my inventory, quit the game, start the game and immediately teleport. If I do that, I have no lag at my destination. I can't teleport back without first saving and quitting the game. If I try, I first get lag, then the game crashes. The game info I get when I hit F3 shows that 100 % of my memory is used up.

    I can live with the workarounds,, but I think the lag shouldn't happen at all. My system:

    OS: Windows 10 (10.0.0) 64bit
    CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz (8) System RAM: 16324
    GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB GPU RAM: 6081

    This sounds like a memory leak of some sort since I do not have any issues traveling 4,000+ blocks, including 3,870 by rail plus walking a few hundred more blocks to where I'm currently exploring with only 512 MB allocated, and memory usage (actual amount allocated) does not change much when I travel that far as compared to when I only explore within 100-200 blocks of where I started playing (in either case it starts out at 200-250 MB and increases to around 350 MB after a few hours, mainly due to the JVM fine-tuning the heap size; aside from MC-33134 (which is not a true memory leak) I have never seen any evidence of a memory leak in the versions I've played in).

    Of course, this is in vanilla 1.6.4 (including non-Forge jar mods, which are generally much lighter than Forge mods since they are directly integrated into the game), however, I've not had any issues with 1.12.2 on a render distance of 10, including when I recently flew around in Creative to load a lot of chunks so I could map a seed (allocated memory did rise to 100% but used memory stayed below that), so this may be an issue with not allocating enough memory for the render distance that you are using. Note that vanilla 1.8+ only lets you use 16+ chunks if you have 2+ GB allocated (it only lets me go up to 16) , but unless they changed it recently Optifine bypasses that restriction (editing options.txt may also work). Given that you have 16 GB of RAM you should be able to allocate more RAM; I'd suggest no more than 4 GB though since Java does not handle large amounts of memory well (it will increase the time taken for garbage collection and increase lag spikes. Note that the Xmn128M parameter should not be increased or you will get lag spikes. Also, I removed the -XX:+CMSIncrementalMode flag since it is not really useful on systems with multiple CPUs and may cause more harm than good; it was deprecated in Java 8 and Java 9 will remove it completely).

    Also, if you move away from spawn memory usage increases a bit since the spawn chunks are always loaded (unless you use Optifine with Smooth World enabled) so you are now loading more chunks overall, which could be a factor (though this is not significant especially on higher render distances since the spawn chunks are only 16x16 and only one copy is kept loaded server-side while the chunks around the player are loaded on both the server and client; even with 8 chunk render distance 2/3 of the memory used by loaded chunks is for chunks around the player, and additional memory is needed to store the rendered data).
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on How large can a single cave system get (and chances of one)?

    These are the largest single cave systems that can generate in 1.6.4 and earlier (at least back to InfDev) and 1.7 and later, as seen below sea level and layer 20, the latter layer chosen since it makes it easier to see variations in cave density. I modified the code to make cave systems always generate at the maximum size and 16 chunks apart for reasons that will be seen below:

    Here is a look at one of the 1.6.4 cave systems in-game (I modified terrain to be like a Superflat world without any decoration):

    The 1.6.4 cave systems contain 156 tunnels and 39 circular rooms while the 1.7 cave systems contain 56 tunnels and 14 circular rooms; in each case the number of tunnels is 4 times the number of circular rooms since when one is generated 0-3 additional tunnels are added to an otherwise single tunnel as seen in this simplified code example:

    int size = rand.nextInt(rand.nextInt(rand.nextInt(maxSize) + 1) + 1);
    for (int i = 0; i < size; ++i)
        int tunnels = 1;
        if (rand.nextInt(4) == 0)
            tunnels += rand.nextInt(4);
        for (int j = 0; j < tunnels; ++j)

    "maxSize" is 40 for 1.6.4 and 15 for 1.7, which give a maximum size of 39 and 14 respectively (nextInt() returns a value between 0 and n-1), and with each iteration of the main loop there is a 25% chance of adding a circular room, which in turn has an additional 25% chance of adding 3 additional tunnels for a maximum of 4 generated from the same spot (each iteration also sets the starting coordinates of each room/tunnel(s) to random values between 0-15 for x and z (relative to the center chunk) and 0-126 for the y-coordinate).

    Since there is a 25% chance of a circular room per iteration and a 25% chance of 4 tunnels this means that there is a 25% * 25% = 6.25% chance per iteration of the maximum number of tunnels. For a cave system with a size of 1 this means there is a 1 in 16 chance of 4 tunnels, for a size of 2 a one in 256 chance of 8 tunnels (6.25% ^ 2), for a size of 3 a one in 4096 chance of 12 tunnels, and so on until you reach the maximum sizes of 39 or 14.

    For a size 39 cave system to have 156 tunnels the chance is (25% * 25%) ^ 39 = 1.1 x 10^-47 or one in 9.13 x 10^46.

    For a size 14 cave system to have 56 tunnels the chance is (25% * 25%) ^ 14 = 1.4 x 10^-17 or one in 9.13 x 10^16.

    However, that is not all - the chance of the maximum size being chosen is (maxSize ^ 3) or one in 64000 for 1.6.4 and one in 3375 for 1.7, and the chance of a chunk having a cave system (including a size of 0) is one in 15 in 1.6.4 and one in 7 in 1.7 for a combined chance of one in 960000 for 1.6.4 and one in 23625 for 1.7.

    When combined with the above this results in a one in 8.8 x 10^52 chance of the largest possible cave system in 1.6.4 and a one in 1.7 x 10^21 chance in 1.7. Both of these numbers are far in excess of the number of possible cave systems, which is only 2^48 or 281 trillion or 2.81 x 10^14 because Java's Random only has 48 bits of internal state, which also means that only about 20 fully generated worlds (about 14 trillion chunks each) are required to use up every possible seed (every chunk has a unique seed based on the world seed and coordinates). Even a 64 bit RNG only has 1.8 x 10^19 states, 128 bit has 3.4 x 10^38, and there are 2.6 x 10^32 chunks in every possible Minecraft world, so it is virtually certain that the largest possible cave systems in both 1.6.4 and 1.7 do not exist, with 1.6.4 being unlikely even if every single chunk in every world had a unique seed (in reality, many chunks in the same world have the same seed due to a poor implementation, as seen in this map showing only cave systems and ravines in chunks with matching seeds, which occur at sign-reversed coordinate pairs. Any two worlds are also very likely to have some overlap; in fact, for any given seed there are 65535 other seeds with the exact same caves and many other features for the same reason there are only 2^48 unique chunk seeds; the biome generator is the only code that uses a custom 64 bit RNG).

    This also does not take into account the sizes of individual caves, which can vary in width from 3 to 27 blocks (averaging 6; this is the maximum width and widening out from a minimum of 3) and in length from 85 to 194 blocks (including branches; branches are always 4-5 blocks in maximum width). The chance of a cave with the maximum width (26.5-27) is in itself an extraordinarily rare occurrence, with around one in 12 million chunks in 1.6.4 and one in 16 million chunks in 1.7+ (solely due to a lower amount of caves overall; no other changes were made other than to the size and frequency of cave systems) - and even then you may not find it if it goes under lava or above the surface/seafloor (on average 83% of caves are below sea level and 25% are below lava level, at least their starting points).

    Also, while the chance of the largest possible cave system in 1.6.4 is far lower than in 1.7 and 1.7 has a higher chance of a cave system in a given chunk cave systems with 5 or more caves are more common in 1.6.4, with larger cave systems exponentially more common, as shown in these results from 1 billion simulated cave systems (15 billion chunks in 1.6.4 and 7 billion in 1.7+); the maximum size found in 1.7+ was 40 while the maximum in 1.6.4 was 80, and a size of 40 or more was more than 3 million times more likely in 1.6.4 (the sample size is too small at this point to get accurate results but the progression up to 38 suggests this is a big underestimate); a size of 20 was 32 times more common and a size of 10 was 2.27 times more common:

            Chunks/cave system        Ratio
    Caves    1.6.4        1.7+   1.6.4/1.7+
     1          20          12        0.604
     2          24          17        0.708
     3          27          21        0.800
     4          30          27        0.900
     5          34          35        1.038
     6          38          46        1.199
     7          43          59        1.390
     8          47          77        1.620
     9          53         100        1.907
    10          58         133        2.268
    11          65         177        2.731
    12          72         239        3.332
    13          80         329        4.127
    14          88         459        5.198
    15          98         652        6.669
    16         108         946        8.730
    17         120        1404       11.677
    18         133        2132       15.976
    19         148        3317       22.374
    20         165        5298       32.132
    21         184        8669       47.222
    22         205       14579       71.226
    23         229       25186      110.185
    24         256       44680      174.747
    25         287       81588      284.725
    26         322      154073      478.785
    27         362      301205      831.679
    28         409      602151     1473.755
    29         462     1247994     2700.191
    30         524     2653525     5060.300
    31         597     5882353     9858.418
    32         681    13282732    19501.719
    33         780    30567686    39170.246
    34         897    73684211    82106.234
    35        1036   184210526   177762.580
    36        1202   636363636   529327.440
    37        1401  1750000000  1249013.600
    38        1641  3500000000  2132374.500
    39        1933  3500000000  1810361.800
    40        2290  7000000000  3057421.200
    41        2730
    42        3276
    43        3960
    44        4825
    45        5924
    46        7337
    47        9167
    48       11564
    49       14742
    50       18980
    51       24712
    52       32527
    53       43336
    54       58377
    55       79464
    56      109523
    57      152610
    58      215759
    59      307875
    60      446190
    61      653168
    62      965686
    63     1461703
    64     2261420
    65     3464203
    66     5464481
    67     8680556
    68    14031805
    69    23328149
    70    39787798
    71    66666667
    72   111111111
    73   194805195
    74   357142857
    75   789473684
    76  1875000000
    77  3750000000
    78  5000000000
    79  7500000000
    80  7500000000

    Of course, multiple cave systems often generate close enough to overlap; for example, this massive cave system in the seed "-7501191248410737040" (+/- any multiple of 2^48) in 1.6.4 contains a total of 526 caves across 32 individual cave systems:

    Size 7 cave system at -448, 112; total number of caves: 9
    Size 1 cave system at -416, 112; total number of caves: 2
    Size 21 cave system at -352, 112; total number of caves: 39
    Size 2 cave system at -480, 128; total number of caves: 2
    Size 21 cave system at -336, 144; total number of caves: 27
    Size 24 cave system at -400, 160; total number of caves: 40
    Size 13 cave system at -384, 160; total number of caves: 19
    Size 6 cave system at -512, 176; total number of caves: 6
    Size 2 cave system at -464, 176; total number of caves: 2
    Size 3 cave system at -256, 176; total number of caves: 5
    Size 2 cave system at -304, 192; total number of caves: 2
    Size 29 cave system at -448, 208; total number of caves: 36
    Size 12 cave system at -416, 208; total number of caves: 18
    Size 21 cave system at -400, 208; total number of caves: 28
    Size 3 cave system at -352, 208; total number of caves: 6
    Size 7 cave system at -256, 208; total number of caves: 9
    Size 13 cave system at -448, 224; total number of caves: 13
    Size 20 cave system at -352, 224; total number of caves: 34
    Size 6 cave system at -352, 240; total number of caves: 6
    Size 3 cave system at -336, 240; total number of caves: 3
    Size 21 cave system at -304, 240; total number of caves: 28
    Size 1 cave system at -256, 240; total number of caves: 1
    Size 3 cave system at -464, 256; total number of caves: 9
    Size 23 cave system at -400, 256; total number of caves: 28
    Size 26 cave system at -368, 256; total number of caves: 37
    Size 21 cave system at -416, 272; total number of caves: 34
    Size 1 cave system at -352, 272; total number of caves: 4
    Size 1 cave system at -480, 288; total number of caves: 3
    Size 27 cave system at -416, 288; total number of caves: 43
    Size 2 cave system at -384, 288; total number of caves: 2
    Size 3 cave system at -448, 320; total number of caves: 3
    Size 19 cave system at -352, 320; total number of caves: 28

    Number of cave systems: 32

    Initial number of caves: 364
    Total number of caves: 526
    Additional circular room caves: 162
    Number of small caves: 511; average width is 6.11
    Number of large caves: 15; average width is 13.75
    Number of circular rooms: 101; average width is 10.9
    Additional caves per circular room: 1.6

    For comparison, this is a large but much more scattered cave system I found in the seed "-8138713038637852061" in 1.7+, with only 146 caves across 26 cave systems within the same area; the average size of each cave system is only about a third of the one above:

    Size 1 cave system at 2448, -1120; total number of caves: 4

    Size 6 cave system at 2320, -1104; total number of caves: 6
    Size 1 cave system at 2464, -1104; total number of caves: 1
    Size 8 cave system at 2384, -1088; total number of caves: 13
    Size 1 cave system at 2336, -1072; total number of caves: 1
    Size 3 cave system at 2320, -1056; total number of caves: 4
    Size 5 cave system at 2384, -1056; total number of caves: 11
    Size 8 cave system at 2288, -1040; total number of caves: 8
    Size 1 cave system at 2288, -1024; total number of caves: 4
    Size 6 cave system at 2496, -1024; total number of caves: 11
    Size 6 cave system at 2512, -1024; total number of caves: 9
    Size 1 cave system at 2352, -1008; total number of caves: 4
    Size 1 cave system at 2384, -1008; total number of caves: 3
    Size 3 cave system at 2464, -1008; total number of caves: 3
    Size 1 cave system at 2368, -992; total number of caves: 4
    Size 5 cave system at 2432, -992; total number of caves: 14
    Size 4 cave system at 2448, -992; total number of caves: 7
    Size 3 cave system at 2480, -992; total number of caves: 5
    Size 1 cave system at 2352, -976; total number of caves: 1
    Size 3 cave system at 2400, -976; total number of caves: 6
    Size 1 cave system at 2384, -960; total number of caves: 1
    Size 4 cave system at 2480, -960; total number of caves: 4
    Size 6 cave system at 2416, -944; total number of caves: 12
    Size 3 cave system at 2368, -928; total number of caves: 6
    Size 1 cave system at 2416, -928; total number of caves: 1
    Size 3 cave system at 2416, -912; total number of caves: 3

    Number of cave systems: 26
    Initial number of caves: 86
    Total number of caves: 146
    Additional circular room caves: 60
    Number of small caves: 141; average width is 6.06
    Number of large caves: 5; average width is 12.78
    Number of circular rooms: 31; average width is 10.58
    Additional caves per circular room: 1.94

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Newbie to minecraft?
    Quote from taffu»

    Minecraft does not require a powerful graphics card.

    The system requirements were recently updated with another increase in system requirements*, similar to what happened before 1.8 was released** - and I thought I had a "new" computer a year ago, well, it is already falling behind again, though it doesn't have the issues that my old computer had (yet, I presume that these requirements are more for 1.13 than 1.12):
    Recommended Requirements:
    CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz / AMD A10-7800 APU 3.5 GHz or equivalent
    RAM: 4GB
    GPU: GeForce 700 Series or AMD Radeon Rx 200 Series (excluding integrated chipsets) with OpenGL 4.5
    HDD: 4GB (SSD is recommended)
    OS (recommended 64-bit):
    - Windows: Windows 10
    - macOS: macOS 10.12 Sierra
    - Linux: Any modern distributions from 2014 onwards

    Note: They say that OpenGL 1.3 is the minimum but Minecraft does use features added in newer versions if they are available.

    *For comparison, these are the recommended requirements from before:

    Recommended Requirements:
    CPU: Intel Core i3 or AMD Athlon II (K10) 2.8 GHz
    RAM: 4GB
    GPU: GeForce 2xx Series or AMD Radeon HD 5xxx Series (Excluding Integrated Chipsets) with OpenGL 3.3
    HDD: 1GB
    Latest release of Java 7 from (changed to Java 8 more recently but other requirements were not changed)

    **The pre-1.8 system requirements:
    Recommended Requirements:
    CPU : Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 (K8) 2.6 GHz
    RAM : 4GB
    GPU : GeForce 6xxx or ATI Radeon 9xxx and up with OpenGL 2 Support (Excluding Integrated Chipsets)
    HDD : 150MB

    Given these trends there is pretty much no chance that Java will ever be able to do this (even the default render distance in the Windows 10 Edition is up to 60 chunks / 960 blocks):

    Without recording I could reach 125 chunks with a solid 60 FPS...

    (125 chunk render distance loads/renders nearly FIFTEEN times more chunks than 32 chunks, the maximum available on Java!)

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on TheMasterCaver's First World

    Over the past few days I explored a complex of 5 intersecting mineshafts, plus two more for a total of 7, with 2,095 rails collected from them, far offsetting what I recently used for a railway. Here is a view with Unmined of what I've explored recently; the main area of 6 mineshafts (5 intersecting, which form an arc around the 6th mineshaft, as well as the quadruple ravine I mentioned earlier - which was in fact a quintuple ravine, the fourth occurrence I've found in this world and the second in two weeks) measures about 330 x 350 blocks while the entire area shown is 432 x 656 blocks. Note that there is another mineshaft at the very top but I've decided not to explore it at this time because it is quite far under the ocean:

    Here is a closeup of the quintuple ravines:

    Also, I decided to take a shortcut back to my base instead of going around an explored area between it and where I'm currently exploring and I came across a desert temple, the fifth one I've found in this world, about 200 blocks to the northeast of my current base; there was some decent loot in it including 3 diamonds:

    Also, this is what my map wall looks like now, minus the bit that I explored today (I made a trip back to my main base first thing):

    There is a sizable unexplored area that is mostly surrounded to the north of where I'm currently exploring, in the southwesternmost area; while this region is all ocean I may explore it to fill it in later (the northernmost part of this area is near land but was not explored because I did not find any caves leading to it).

    Posted in: Survival Mode
  • 0

    posted a message on Tips for exploring caves and mineshafts?
    Quote from TheLegendS17»

    Once I am late enough in game, I never go into am mine without a few extra stacks of iron and some extra picks and swords.

    Why not use diamond gear? Particularly with Unbreaking III you do not have to bring more than one of each item; I'm probably the only one who does enough mining to wear out an Unbreaking III diamond pickaxe (averaging 6248 uses) in a single caving trip (I mine an average of about 4375 blocks per play session and spend up to two sessions per trip). Of course, there's also Mending but it is wasteful to use it on iron gear when diamond is better in every way (I still play in 1.6.4 so I can trade emeralds for all the diamond gear I need, negating the rarity of diamond; renaming an item lets you repair it forever so all I need to bring is an anvil and items to repair my gear with as needed).

    Also, why bring extra iron when you can easily mine far more than you can ever use? Mining 4375 blocks would require about 52 iron for pickaxes while I mine around 15 times that much - sometimes much more; here is what I got during a recent play session, which was spent mostly exploring mineshafts (I've found at least 5 directly interconnected so far, which is not a very lot by 1.6.4 standards, where in one seed I found what could be as many as 30 in a chain more than 1000 blocks long):

    Note that I use a mod so I can craft 9 rails or 4 cobwebs into one block in the same way you can do with minerals and string (prior to this I used non-Silk Touch shears and crafted string into wool; either way I only collect the cobwebs around cave spider spawners). Including the coal that I used, which is the only resource that I used any of, I collected well over 6,000 resources and other items (for all other mineral resources I crafted more into blocks than mined as ore due to what I found in chests; even when accounting for the iron I used early on in this world):

    Also, this is what I've mined overall...

    Note that many of the iron pickaxes I've "used" came from minecarts; I give them level 1 enchantments, combining them to as high as Efficiency III and Unbreaking III, and use them to dig tunnels for railways instead of using my diamond pickaxe, though I did craft a lot (most of the ones shown) before I started using diamond tools (conversely, most of the diamond pickaxes I've "crafted" came from villager trading, which counts as crafting the item; the number of swords crafted is low because I used individual diamonds for repairs until I started trading, and even then I have to kill chickens to wear it out enough to lower the cost below 40 levels):

    I've also crafted more than half a million torches and mined more mob spawners than emerald ore (the game does not normally show them in stats which is a bug that I fixed; there is no reason why they shouldn't show up). Note that the amount of moss stone that I've mined is equivalent to 1253 dungeons (48 moss stone each when averaged across each size); yes, all the remaining spawners would be cave spider spawners, which are by far the most common type of spawner, accounting for 7 out of 9 that I found in the play session shown above:
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on [TOOLKIT] Mod Coder Pack (MCP)

    You can find all old versions of MCP, as far back as Alpha 1.1.2_01, here:; most of the the download links go directly to MediaFire, not the MCP website. I do not know if versions older than release 1.6 will work correctly given that they have since changed the .minecraft folder layout (no bin folder), though you may be able to manually copy the required files.

    Also, Forge is NOT the same as MCP (though older versions did let you make mods the same way as MCP, as I did back when I used Forge so my jar mods were fully compatible; however, you have to remove all references to Forge from your classes if you plan to use them in vanilla).

    Posted in: Minecraft Tools
  • 0

    posted a message on Can't open a chest with slab on top
    Quote from NachtMC»

    If it was a bug in the game, they would have fixed it long long ago, it has been there since slabs, and I am sure mojang kept it for a reason.

    Forge's bugfix is not unlike the recent change that Mojang made that allows you to place torches on the back side of stairs - it makes sense that it is considered to be a solid block from that direction because it looks like one, and a similar fix by Forge means that modders do not need to modify the torch code to make them able to be placed on their custom blocks; likewise, the ability to change block models in vanilla means that you can't just rely on a block's intrinsic properties to determine if it is solid so Mojang really should do the same thing for all sides of a block.
    Posted in: Survival Mode
  • 0

    posted a message on Tips for exploring caves and mineshafts?
    I don't actually do much at all when exploring; I just barge through caves placing torches on the ground whenever it gets too dark to see well and kill any mobs I run into, often going through multiple passageways and intersections until I reach a dead end or one of those ridiculously complicated intersections where there are so many intersecting caves they form a large ragged chamber, then I backtrack and mine out all the ores. The only markers that I use are cobblestone pillars that I place on the surface to mark where I left off from a caving session and plan to return or found a new cave/mineshaft to explore later. I also carry a map while caving to see where I've been in general. I do tend to explore a cave system from the top-down, preferring to go through passages that go higher up if I start exploring them deeper down, as is often the case (I generally do not explore surface caves unless I've already explored around the area and come across them while passing through; any such unexplored openings are likely to be short dead ends and not really worth exploring).

    How do I know where I've been before? Simple - there are torches everywhere and ores have been mined out. I do miss some areas but well over 90% (at least) of a cave system is fully explored; I often do return to the last marker I started at to make sure that I didn't miss anything nearby, particularly when I travel 100-200+ blocks away to the next marker. For some measure of my efficiency I occasionally mine more than a thousand ores per hour while exploring a cave or mineshaft network, and explore around 100 chunks (equivalent to a 160x160 block area) of the underground per 3 1/2 hour long play session.

    Here is an example of the sort of caves that I regularly explore; not every cave in 1.6.4 is like this with the caves I'm currently exploring more like a typical scattered network in 1.7+ (1.6 does not just have bigger/denser cave systems, there is a lot more variation in regional cave density), with a ton of mineshafts intertwined with them (I've already nearly made up for all the rails I recently used on a 1474 block railway):
    Yes, that is sunlight and snow nearly reaching lava level; some of the caves that I've explored have reached 50% air in a single chunk between layers 11-62 without the help of a ravine:

    Note that most of the torches are placed directly on the ground, where they are most useful, especially in open areas like this; I only place them on walls to light up high areas or when there is water on the ground:

    Due to their much higher frequency in 1.6.4 you can also find huge complexes of up to a dozen or more mineshafts intersecting one another (that's not a dozen mineshaft corridors - a dozen separate mineshaft structures, each with a dirt room in the center):

    Also, these are some ravines I explored; I generally explore them from the top down unless they are small enough to light up by jumping up to place torches and/or don't have significant ledges:

    Even the largest cave system that I've found (in vanilla) - with the equivalent of 1,400 chunks worth of caves at the 1.7+ cave density - only took a week to explore; you can also see how I go back to finish exploring areas I passed by while exploring away from my last return point:

    While exploring this cave I set up several markers (while I record the coordinates I often do not need them as my map shows where I've been before and they are usually near the edges of the explored area; some of them are not returned to for a long time though; the southernmost marker shown was created about two years earlier):

    -1177, 1445 (last marker I made before I found the cave)
    -1321, 1721 (I returned to this one to explore the latest area)
    -1008, 1765 (marks a mineshaft which was explored later)
    -1368, 1866 (last marker I made before exploring other areas)
    -1264, 1858
    -1137, 1958 (marks another mineshaft)
    -1065, 2056 (an old marker from when I explored the map to the east, I never returned to it directly but explored caves that lead to it)

    This is was most recent marker I made above; the furnaces behind it were filled with iron and gold ore so I could compact them into blocks, saving a lot of room (9 stacks of ore = 1 stack of blocks. I also often set up furnaces inside of an easily recognizable cave/ravine/mineshaft center room or along the path to an area I'm exploring, which is how it is possible that I can mine several thousand resources per play session without having to return more than once or twice every two sessions):

    Here is another rendering of the cave system; note the absence of exposed lava on the right half (at layer 20, where the density of caves stands out better. I did not use any mapping tools to view the caves until I finished exploring them, I even made a copy of the world and deleted all unexplored chunks so i would not see anything I haven't explored yet. For the renderings above I used a utility that only renders caves if they have torches in them; I removed naturally generated torches from mineshafts in my worlds so they do not show up until I explore them):

    For comparison, this is the entire world, again with unexplored chunks trimmed away (after I explored a bit more to the west of the cave shown above, which is near the bottom on the left side; below that is a railway to a new base I recently built. The explored-only area measures 6400x5680 blocks):

    Likewise, this shows what I explored in the first 5 play sessions I spent caving in the last world I made (minus the branch-mine; I branch-mine to get my first resources since it is far more efficient at finding diamond, or in this case, a mod ore), which includes 4 mineshafts, several smaller/scattered cave systems, a large cave system, and 6 ravines. In this case I did not backtrack since I was pretty sure that I'd explored everything around the previous return point (in two of the frames you can see a diagonal line marking a staircase to the surface appear to the right):
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on What are your current goals?

    - Mine a total of 2 million ore (currently at 1.96 million), half a million iron (currently at 479,000), and fill up 2 double chests with gold blocks, which will take another 2-3 weeks and a month respectively, not exactly sure about the gold but there is less than one empty row left in the second double chest.

    - Explore all land in the current map I'm exploring, the 6th one I've made in this world (all max zoom, 2048x2048 blocks).

    - Longer term - explore the underground across an entire continent, as they existed in 1.6.4 (depends on the exact size but I've reached ocean to the north, northeast, west, and southwest).

    Those are some that I can think of; I am not playing this world with any real goals other than just how much caving/mining/etc I can do, which is just for fun, and any goals just come up as I play, with my last major milestone in this world being walking a distance equivalent to the old Far Lands, which I only thought of a few months before I reached it; in my most recent "other" world I did have the goal to find at least one of every type of cave/underground feature, which took about 20 days of playtime over 4 months and I stopped playing on it after finding all of them but no such goal exists in my first world, which has close to 120 days of playtime in total so far.

    One thing for sure, I've long since reached my goal of having the most caved-out world anybody has ever made in Minecraft, possibly even if you include multiplayer servers with no map resets for years:

    Those were made after I used a utility on a copy of the world to delete all chunks without torches - all of what you see has actually been explored (I modded mineshafts to remove their naturally generated torches, all 3 strongholds were found long ago) and the cropped world measures 6400x5680 blocks (the projection on the left side near the bottom is along a railway I recently made to a new base).

    Posted in: Survival Mode
  • 1

    posted a message on Elytra should be repaired by Dragon's Breath instead of Leather (Balancing)
    Quote from Mastermined»

    I believe Elytra were exempt from this, allowing you to repair them using Leather as many times as you wanted, because of their rarity in comparison to normal tools or armor. This is also the reason Elytra don't disappear when they lose all their durability.

    Not according to

    Elytra can Become "Too Expensive" to Repair at Anvils
    Resolution: Invalid

    So, 15w42a was released today, and it looks like that Jeb and Mojang have decided on a new system. The Mending enchantment was introduced. An item with this enchantment will have its durability restored, if needed, as the player collects experience. Exp. goes to the mendable item instead of the player. Therefore, elytra can be infinitely repaired if it has Mending. However, enchanted books with Mending will only be found in the world, like elytra. Locations haven't been implemented nor confirmed at this time.

    The not breaking/disappearing when losing all durability has been present since they were introduced I believe and was probably added because they are much more valuable than other items.

    Posted in: Suggestions
  • 1

    posted a message on So there's good news, and then REALLY concerning news...
    Quote from SmugSmirk»

    The forums are just less active. The actual game is as popular is ever. It's just not as much of a pop culture icon today.
    It's like Overwatch in this regard. Right now, Overwatch is huge. Soon, the memes and videos and nsfw art will slow down, and Overwatch will still be played by millions, it's just no longer in the spotlight for the masses to constantly talk about.

    To say that the forums are less active is a big understatement; I can't really see how there can be only a few dozen posts per day in forums like Discussion, Suggestions, and Survival Mode, each with more than a million posts, given the size of the community (Mojang claimed there were 55 million monthly unique players earlier this year, out of a total of 122 million copies, meaning that 45% of everybody who bought the game still played it at least once a month). I've also look at archived pages to confirm the decline, which has been going on for years and has worsened with time; the forums must have been really crazy years ago, to the point of having to go back several pages just to find threads that were created within the past day (recently I saw threads with no activity for the past 7 days on the first page in Survival Mode, the longest I can remember). I've also see many old-time members with high post counts stop visiting the forums recently; these members tend to drive much of the activity due to their high participation (the average member has made only 6 posts over the entire time they've been active; I even have followers who have 0 posts and have not been online since the day they signed up).
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Is there a larger caves mod for 1.12?

    I have a simple mod for 1.12.2 which replicates vanilla 1.6.4 cave generation, including mineshafts (optional); together with a dungeon count of 16 you can pretty closely replicate 1.6.4 seeds in 1.12.2 (dungeons will not be the same since in 1.7 they doubled their range from 128 to 256, which is why I recommend using Customized to double the count to 16. Ravines are also different but in the same general locations and with the same frequency, which was unchanged):

    Of course, if you are looking for a Forge mod then that is an issue since I just edited the bytecode (it may still be possible to use it with Forge since all I changed was some hard-coded numbers, not the code itself. It is even possible to edit it yourself to customize caves to your liking; I changed the numbers on lines 7 and 18 from 15 and 7 to 40 and 15 respectively; the first number controls the size of cave systems while the second controls their frequency, with the average density being (size - 1) / 8 / frequency, or 0.25 and 0.325 respectively. The larger both values are the more cave density varies. I recommend using Unmined to easily see the effects of changes).

    Note that this only works for 1.12.2 although it would only take me a few minutes to make a version for 1.12 (mostly finding the right class).

    Posted in: Mods Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on TheMasterCaver's First World

    Out of a total of 94214 chunks I've explored about 71540 chunks in this world; this number comes from the number of chunks that were left after I used MMAT on a copy of the world to delete all chunks without torches, which is representative of how much I've explored by caving, minus a few chunks around the path of my latest railway and base.

    Here are surface and underground renderings of the trimmed world; the latter is black and white since that was the only way I could get it under 1 MB in size and both are 1:2 scale, covering an area 6400x5680 blocks in size (3200x2840 pixels):

    The area I'm currently exploring is to the north of the small projection to the west near the bottom, which is along my latest railway and base.

    Also, to put things into perspective, on average 71540 chunks of a 1.6.4 world will contain the following:

    85800 cave structures (includes all tunnels and rooms)
    56000 tunnels (32000 initial tunnels; 75% branch with two branches at right angles, effectively forming one tunnel, or two tunnels forming a "T", and 3 separate tunnels overall)
    5800 circular rooms (5/6 of tunnels and rooms are below sea level)
    3577 individual cave systems, including 468 at least as large as the largest in 1.7+ (where about 3 are expected)
    3105 monster spawners (1430 cave spider, 837 zombie, 419 skeleton, 419 spider)
    1675 dungeons (containing 80400 moss stone and about 2931 chests, assuming an average of 1.75 each)
    1430 ravines
    715 abandoned mineshafts (containing about 214500 rails, 3575 minecarts, and 1430 cave spider spawners)

    Unless the entire region is at least 1280 blocks from the origin there will be less mineshafts and (to a lesser extent) dungeons since mineshafts are less common within 1280 blocks of the origin, linearly decreasing in frequency from 100% (1% chance per chunk) to 0% at 0,0 (a mineshaft will never generate right at the origin); I also modded this world so they do not generate if there are too many caves nearby, reducing their frequency by about 25% (up to 536 mineshafts). The decrease in mineshafts near the origin can also be seen on the cave map above, which shows more open areas near the center (mineshafts are so common in 1.6.4 that they contain about 25% of the volume of caves and ravines; in other words, underground density increases by 20% as you go away from the origin).

    This also includes the following amounts of each ore (based on the Wiki; figures for coal, iron, and emerald vary more due to differences in land/ocean/ice plains):

    10.2 million coal ore
    5.51 million iron ore
    1.77 million redstone ore
    586,000 gold ore
    245,000 lapis ore
    221,000 diamond ore
    14,300 emerald ore

    Also, I made an addition to my "inventory stats" mod which includes the total number of ores that I've mined, not just in the current session (as seen within MCP using the stats file for this world; I read the values directly from the stats while the current session stats count what was mined in that session):

    Note that coal and iron alone account for over 90% of all ores mined with coal being 2/3rds of the total; as I've mentioned before the addition of coal blocks in 1.6 was the single biggest boost to my playstyle since it meant I could now mine all coal instead of just what I used, around 1/6 of what I mine, nearly tripling my ore collection rate (the time I spend actually mining ore is less than 10% of the time I spend caving. Some more time is needed to get to ores high up in walls and ceilings but it is still a relatively small percentage of the total time).

    At the rate at which I collect ores I'll hit 2 million total ore mined within the next 2-3 weeks, and half a million iron in about a month. I'm also closing in on filling two double chests with gold blocks, after which I'll need to make more room for gold as I currently only have two double chests for it; an entire corridor of 16 double chests would let me collect 8 times as much, far more than I'll ever collect in this world even if I decide to go another map outwards after I explore the 3x3 inner area (including oceans; I currently do not explore that far from land), which would give me up to 409600 chunks or about 5.7 times the area to explore. This would also take close to 1000 days of playtime over 18 years of playing for 3 1/2 hours per day so that will likely never happen.

    Also, I used MCEdit to see exactly how many rails I've used in my rail system; the stats for rails placed is not reliable since I changed some of the original railways (from the first time I played on this world) so they were mostly at y=58 instead of at sea level (because of this I've also not found quite as many rails as the stats say that I've mined, although it does not account for rails that get washed away by water or rails in chests); I've used 15280 regular rails and 592 powered rails for a total length of 15872 blocks, which is close to what I've previously estimated (14-15 km before the latest extension, which is 1474 blocks long, with a total round-trip distance of 7740 blocks as measured by stats). Note that the ratio of regular:powered rails, at 25.8:1, is considerably less than the 33:1 ratio I use for long straight tracks due to the way I use powered rails at the ends but this still requires only a 1:9.3 ratio of gold:iron, less than the near 1:8 ratio that I've mined, and loot in minecarts more than offsets the gold I've used so that doesn't even matter at all (for comparison, branch-mining below y=32 yields a near 1:5 ratio of iron:gold; in 1.10+ mesas it is 1.333:1 above y=32 and 1.1:1 overall).

    Posted in: Survival Mode
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