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  • 2

    posted a message on What version did you think Minecraft went wrong for you? [POL]

    I find it interesting that you omitted 1.6 from the poll; while it did not add much some people were put off by the changes it introduced, such as nerfing regeneration and health potions and making healing drain hunger, or the addition of horses.

    For me it is also 1.7 but mainly due to changes to another aspect of terrain generation; they significantly reduced underground variation by making individual cave systems 2.8 times smaller (which also means 2.8 times less size variation since the game picks a random number between 0 and the "size" to determine how many caves to generate, and even more when considering that larger cave systems (up to the maximum size still possible) became relatively much rarer, so they are less likely to merge into larger systems; the third to last spoiler in this thread compares the frequencies of cave systems of a given size with 5 or more caves becoming exponentially rarer in 1.7+), while making them more common (this also reduces variation because they are more uniformly spread out with smaller cave-free areas) and made mineshafts and dungeons more than twice as rare (dungeons were possibly inadvertent since this was mainly because they doubled the y-range they can generate over, similar to how they made ocelots 10 times less likely to spawn by forgetting to change their chance when multiplying the chance of other mobs by 10 so they could add witches with an integer spawn chance). I don't like most of the biome changes that much either but they wouldn't be a deal-breaker by themselves.

    In fact, I've still not updated past 1.6 nearly 4 years after 1.7 was released and it is likely to stay that way for the interminable future, not that I don't mind (I still play as much as I did 4 years ago), or really care about what Mojang does with the game; I've made my own mods to spice things up, including one that adds some newer features (many altered in various ways) in addition to my own, which I see as my own "version" of the game.

    See also: I have played the same version of Minecraft for four years (where many others try to convince me to play newer versions, which IMO is just as annoying as those who complain about them; this thread was not made to complain but just to explain why I still play 1.6)

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on What's the big deal?
    Quote from citricsquid»

    At the peak of Minecraft's popularity amongst PC players, the game was very different: a player needed this forum and a player needed the wiki to be able to play the game. Since then the ecosystem has evolved substantially, players are not dependent on this forum or the wiki anymore.


    I'm not talking about people asking for help; what about those who just like talking about what they have done; for example, Survival journals, which are basically extinct; a couple of my own journals have probably contributed to a majority of all such discussion this year, and certainly, I don't recall seeing any with regular activity. I also do not believe that nobody at all plays Survival anymore; Mojang's own stats from a couple years ago (well into the decline on the forums) still showed that a majority of players played singleplayer and most of those likely played Survival based on the relative activity (overall) in the Survival vs Creative subforums. The higher activity in the server sections also doens't necessarily mean anything - even in August 2011 (link below) there were already more posts under servers than Survival Mode has right now, and "Survival Mode" doesn't necessarily just pertain to singleplayer; likewise, while the modding section has also always been more popular most players likely play vanilla (including mods like Optifine).

    I mean, even if only one in a million players (Mojang claimed there were 55 million active users as of earlier this year) kept a Survival journal you'd see around 55 active across all subforums, then there are all of the other threads which are not really long enough to be called a journal (e.g. discussing a single thing instead of everything they've done in a world), which are also much less common. There are also always new players buying the game and the rate of of new members joining the forums is still pretty healthy (265684 since since October 12, 2016; for comparison, up to mid-August 2011 the forums gained members at a rate of around 305146 per year. Even if many older members have become inactive this indicates there should be a healthy number of active members).
    Posted in: Forum Discussion & Info
  • 0

    posted a message on The problem with the Mo' Creatures mod

    I would absolutely love to see Mojang implement parts of my own suggestions and mods into the game, which would benefit players in general, not just players like me who do little other than caving (it has been 6 years since the last underground update that actually added content, nevermind that they removed content a few years ago).

    Also, they have even implemented many of Optifine's features despite sp614x refusing to let them add it unless they added the entire mod (e.g. brightness, vsync, mipmaps, fine-tuned render distance in chunks, fine-tuned FPS slider, alternate blocks, separate fast/fancy setting for clouds, turn entity shadows on/off).

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on What's the big deal?

    Regardless of whether Twitch is a contributor, there is something very wrong with these forums; as I showed here activity in Survival Mode, one of the most popular subforums, has declined by more than 97% (a 30-fold reduction) in recent years, with other once-popular subforums showing similar declines (there has been no noticeable acceleration in recent months, or since Twitch bought Curse last year); not many seem interested in the "Better Together"/Bedrock/Minecraft edition either despite having the largest playerbase of any edition - all the while Mojang says that the game is selling more copies and has more users than ever, and Google does not suggest that there is a major competitor to the forums (all I found were some forums for servers, Planet Minecraft, which is also similarly declining, and Reddit, which does not provide the same environment that a forum does; for example, I have not seen long-running threads like Survival journals or mods there. All this is likely one reason why people say that the game is dying despite official stats saying otherwise since hardly anybody talks about it anymore).

    Posted in: Forum Discussion & Info
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    posted a message on Allowing modders to distribute their work for free if they want to.
    Quote from TheDiamondYT»

    What do you guys even mean by "modder"?

    A "modder" is somebody who modifies computer software or hardware:
    modder in British
    (ˈmɒdə)
    noun
    computing slang
    a person who modifies a piece of hardware or software

    https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/modder


    Such as Minecraft; for example, if I take the cave generator class and change it to make more and bigger caves (e.g. PC 1.12.2 with 1.6.4 caves) that is modifying the game, whereas using the built-in world customization (which can only enable or disable them) or a plugin (if there was one that could change this) is not (plugins rely on a provided interface with the core code, and do not let you change things which are not exposed, much like the world customization settings, thus making them much more limited than mods; even APIs like Forge require that you make "coremods" which directly modify the code if you want to alter existing code, which is also why I do not use it since a lot of my mods alter the base game as opposed to adding new features).
    Posted in: Suggestions
  • 0

    posted a message on TheMasterCaver's First World

    Today I reached a major milestone:

    What are your current goals?

    - Mine a total of 2 million ore (currently at 1.96 million), half a million iron (currently at 479,000), and fill up 2 double chests with gold blocks, which will take another 2-3 weeks and a month respectively, not exactly sure about the gold but there is less than one empty row left in the second double chest.


    And just on time, the total amount of ore that I've mined in this world exceeded 2 million today - I think it is safe to say that never before has anybody ever mined that much ore in Minecraft until today:
    This is what I mined today:


    And overall:


    Also, these are all of the resources that I've collected since my last trip back to my main base a few days ago, including what I found from the big cave system the other day (the 13 music disc was dropped by a creeper, I ignore those in chests; two potions of healing and 3 glowstone came from witches; and 76 rail and 46 cobweb blocks plus 11 rails (4 in my inventory) and 2 cobwebs total 695 rails and 186 cobwebs):

    In terms of resources collected (including multiple drops from redstone and lapis and from when I used Fortune for a while) I've collected around 2.6 million resources over a total of 121.7 days - a third of a year - of playtime:


    This represents 1245438 coal, 491715 iron, 370251 redstone, 168165 lapis, 61479 gold, and 12105 diamonds (the actual amount in storage is slightly less as I've used a couple hundred iron blocks for anvils and lost some when I died prior to using an Ender chest to store it while caving):


    Note that most of the cobwebs were harvested without Silk Touch and crafted into wool, representing most of the 12005 wool I've crafted; the amount of moss stone corresponds to around 1282 dungeons and rails correspond to around 450 mineshafts (possibly more since the average of 300 I found for 30 mineshafts in a Superflat world may be a bit high for an actual world when factoring in rails washed away by springs; the last 17 mineshafts that I've found, since I started tracking them, have averaged 273 rails each, or around 493 mineshafts):




    While I do not know how much of that time has been spent caving about 86.43% of the total time I spent in my previous world was spent caving, which translates to about 105.18 days for this world, meaning that I've mined an average of about 793 ore and collected 1030 resources per hour - every hour for around 2524 hours; the average session length of 3.498 hours gives 2774 ore mined and 3604 resources collected per session. I've also mined 2.83 million blocks with a diamond pickaxe for an average of 1121 per hour and 3922 per session (all these figures assume 86.43% of the total time and sessions).

    Also, I found the ravine that I ran into while digging the latest railway again, except this time by exploring caves that lead to it, with the ravine being unexplored until now:
    Near the center you can see a redstone block, which is under a powered rail and gave away the fact that this is the ravine I mentioned running into, along with a few blocks of sand that fell down:




    Here are updated maps of what I've explored so far within the current level 4 map (the cave map excludes the area around the Mushroom Island near the top-center); I've gone all the way under my current base, visible as a gray dot near the edge of the desert west of my position, and the area I explored today was a mineshaft and cave system to the northwest (left on this image) of the big cave system I mentioned before, which is to the far right:



    Posted in: Survival Mode
  • 0

    posted a message on Half slabs, place blocks off-centre in vanilla - uses command blocks.
    Quote from Herb_»

    And yet, we do;

    Did you even read my link? Here it is again:

    On a render distance of 10 the game loads 441 chunks, each with as many as 65536 blocks and six faces per block (assuming they are all cubes); this is a total of 173 million faces, each with 256 texels (16x textures); this is 44.4 billion texels - a GeForce GTX 1080 - one of the highest-end GPUs that you can get can process 257 billion texels per second - which is only 5.8 FPS.

    This is why the game does not render any block faces which are completely hidden - a chunk section entirely filled with and surrounded by opaque blocks will have nothing at all rendered; the game won't even send its display list the the GPU for rendering. For 10 chunk render distance and a world completely filled with solid blocks only 145.9 million texels are rendered - a reduction of 304 times for a frame rate of 1761 FPS. A Superflat world with a single layer could achieve 4420 FPS, but only 1482 FPS without face culling (all of these assume that the GPU is the limiting factor; a significant amount of CPU is used to render the blocks (not to be confused with the GPU rendering them on-screen) and cull faces but this only occurs during chunk updates).

    And even then the game needs to perform occlusion culling of hidden chunk sections to get acceptable performance on slower hardware, as a normal world has many more surfaces exposed due to caves, trees, structures, uneven terrain, etc:
    The Advanced Cave Culling Algorithm™, or, making Minecraft faster

    The Advanced Cave Culling Algorithm™ is an algorithm that I happened to come up with during the development of MCPE 0.9, after we tried to enable cave generation in the worlds and being hit by how slower the game just became - it would hardly reach 40 fps on this year’s devices!

    Fortunately, turns out this culling approach works pretty great with good culling ratios going from 50% to 99% (yes, 99%!) of the geometry, so it allowed us to generate caves on all phones instead than on the most powerful ones only.

    (of course, you can also just reduce the amount of caves, as they did in 1.7 (for unexplained reasons which may not actually be due to performance since the actual changes were mainly to the density variation of cave systems and the overall decrease in air underground was only around 15%), as back then the game only had highly hardware-dependent "Advanced OpenGL" occlusion culling (it worked very well for me though, even on modded worlds with 3x deeper ground and 30x larger cave systems); on my current computer 1.6.4 runs worse than 1.12.2 unless I enable it, and I have a CPU that is below the current minimum requirements (but above the recommended back in 1.6), though they did just update them and they are probably for 1.13, just as they updated them before 1.8 and complaints of lag shot up after 1.8 was released).
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Designer vs. Random Seeds

    For most of my worlds I've used AMIDST to find a suitable seed for most of my worlds but only so I spawn on a suitably large landmass (pre-1.7 here) and turn off all structures beforehand because I do not want to know where they are, plus most of my worlds have had modded biome and structure generation for which AMIDST is useless (it can be used with mods (only jar mods, even Optifine has to be manually installed) but only if there are no non-vanilla biomes; for TMCW I provide a special mod that only changes landmasses and shows climate zones. Structures cannot be found at all because it uses hard-coded algorithms, not the ones inside the jar).

    To get an idea of how much I do not want to see what is in the world before I explore it, when mapping my caving progress I use a mapping utility which only renders caves with torches in them (I even modified it to show a realistic area around each torch), and modified mineshafts to remove torches from them (replacing them with redstone torches in my latest mod, which also replaces them in strongholds). Likewise, when I use Unmined to look around I make a copy of the world and use a utility to delete all chunks without torches underground:

    Note how additional caves show up in areas I explored before, since they only render if they are within a 6 block radius of a torch (the extent that their light propagates before falling below light level 8, though light level is not used):

    Note all of the holes in the world, which are areas where there were no explored caves; the strip in the lower-left is along a railway to a base I recently built:




    I've even modified the game so the internal server view distance is 8 chunks instead of 10 (the hardcoded setting used in 1.6.4; I actually modified Optifine since it was much easier to change, plus Optifine itself uses 10 as the minimum in 1.6.4) so it does not generate more chunks than you can see on an in-game map (in order to prevent the mob spawning bug I reduced the despawn radius from 128 to 96 blocks and reduced the mob cap to keep the same density of mobs; I did not do the latter in TMCW to make things more fun. 1.6.4 has a hardcoded chunk update radius of 7 chunks so this has no effect on block updates).

    I've also reused the seed for my first world (which came from a random seed) several times; first on a world set to Large Biomes with the spawn point changed with NBTExplorer to lie between Plains and Extreme Hills and Minecraft Land Generator used to pre-generate terrain (I used a server-side mod to change cave generation), two worlds which only had modified underground generation, and a fourth time on a world which also had modified biomes (same landmasses).

    Also, I've made last-minute changes to my mods to force a Plains biome at spawn after testing out the seed I chose; this was a simple matter of swapping the biomes in the biome list (e.g. if you spawn in a Taiga swap it with Plains and you'll instead spawn in Plains; this has no effect on other biomes).

    My most recent world was an exception; I did use a known seed (the same as the world/mod name) but I did not know what it would be like so it may as well be random; given the changes I'd made in the version of the mod I used it was pretty likely that it would be suitable (I added more landmasses to oceans and small Plains biomes in various forested biomes; I spawned in such a sub-biome within a Mixed Forest, which has all four wood types in 1.6.4, with a nice view over a lake):
    The first rendering is from my first world while the second is from my most recent world, with the whole world shown below. Interestingly, when rotated 90 degrees both worlds look similar around spawn (desert to the east/north, jungle to the north/west, river/lake to the south/east):


    Posted in: Survival Mode
  • 0

    posted a message on Half slabs, place blocks off-centre in vanilla - uses command blocks.

    The only problem with the method shown in the video is that it uses entities - try using a few thousand of them in a build and see what happens to your performance; not only are entities far more resource-draining than regular blocks or even tile entities the game does not cull hidden faces (as I calculated here there is no way you'd be able to play Minecraft at a playable framerate on any computer if the game had to render every single block; by culling hidden block faces the amount of work the GPU has to do can be reduced by up to 300-fold), and has to fully re-render them every frame (the game only re-renders chunks when there is a chunk update, otherwise the GPU is rendering a static scene).

    Similarly, in order for blocks to be placed anywhere in the world the game would have to store the location of every block as a set of doubles - increasing memory and save size by up to an order of magnitude over storing just a 8 bit (12 for IDs above 255, which are not used in vanilla yet) block ID and 4 bits each of metadata, block light, and sky light, for 2.5 or 3 bytes per block - a double is 8 bytes so they would add 24 bytes (floats only need half the memory but have inadequate precision past 10-100000 blocks. Relative offsets using floats could be used but would require additional calculations to convert to world coordinates).

    This is also why tile entities have a disproportionate performance impact even when they do not do anything because the game needs to store at least their coordinates (32 bit ints for +12 bytes per block; for a block with a visual offset it would need to store 3 additional values), although based on the results in this thread it probably wouldn't matter if only blocks with a non-integer offset were affected. It'd also make placing blocks a nightmare unless this functionality was reserved for commands or a special tool (I see no reason why this should not be available in Survival), in which case the title entity route should be used to avoid unnecessary resource usage.

    Posted in: Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on TheMasterCaver's First World

    Over the past couple days I explored a cave system with one of the largest continuous areas of exposed lava that I've found, extending across an area 75x80 blocks in size, in addition to being relatively large and dense, with a measured volume of about 103,000 air blocks; I also used about 1,500 torches to light it up and mined about 5,400 ore from it:









    The following two screenshots were taken looking in opposite directions while standing in the middle of a large chamber:











    Here is a series of renderings of the cave system; the first two at the top were made with Unmined at layers 62 and 20 while the third was made with Minutor at layer 11 and below them is a rendering made with MCMap (2x actual size):

    This is not the largest "lava cave system" that I've found though, which still goes to the cave system that I found around -800, -1050 more than four years ago, which is also still the largest and densest (densest for its size) cave system that I've found, and a few hundred blocks to the south and east is another cave system that I found close to two years ago, which is smaller overall but has more continuously exposed lava (despite the distance I did not find the current cave system until now because it is on another map and after exploring the map it was on, to the south of spawn, I explored to the east and west before exploring the map the current cave system is on). Also shown is what is likely my first encounter with a "1.6.4 style" cave system (the sort that is extremely dense and unique to versions before 1.7), which is only 100 blocks away from spawn:

    Posted in: Survival Mode
  • 0

    posted a message on Been a while since i've been here. Anyone still active?
    Quote from punk3000»

    It seems to be all about multiplayer nowadays, and there's a big market/member base for multiplayer & MineCraft Development (plugins, hosting servers, etc). Some of those forums are still fairly active (like bukkit/spigot)

    This does not jibe with the following results, though you are correct about the earlier years being the golden age:


    I used the Wayback Machine to look at the post counts in Survival Mode for each year back to 2011, the earliest year they had data available; all dates are the closest I could find to October 12. The numbers in parentheses are the number of new posts since the previous year and posts per day (since June 2009 for 2011 as there was no data for earlier years; the oldest snapshot I could find was from August 2011):

    2011: 598122 (259898/year, 712/day)
    2012: 889659 (291537/year, 799/day)
    2013: 993015 (103356/year, 283/day)
    2014: 1138817 (145802/year, 399/day)
    2015: 1177298 (38481/year, 105/day)
    2016: 1196886 (19588/year, 53.7/day)
    2017: 1205090 (8204/year, 22.5/day)

    The golden age appears to have been 2009-2012, with a major decline in 2013 followed by a temporary recovery in 2014 then it is free-fall from there with the figures for 2017 being absolutely dismal and reflecting a 97% decline in activity - all the while the game has sold more copies and has more players than ever before (122 million copies and 55 million players per month as of early this year) - surely some of those players want to talk about what they have done in Survival, never mind about the game in general (as the same decline has occurred in Discussion as well as Suggestions).

    Also, multiplayer (servers) has always had far more activity than any other section; it already had more posts in August 2011 than Survival Mode currently has. However, in early 2015 (when activity on the forums was crashing) Dinnerbone uploaded a chart that showed that more people played singleplayer than multiplayer (or "other", so not all of that is necessarily multiplayer) and based on the activity in Creative vs Survival the majority of those play Survival. While there has been relatively more growth in servers the difference is not so great as to suggest that people only play multiplayer these days.

    Posted in: General Off Topic
  • 1

    posted a message on Creating a Mob With Infinite Sight

    One thing to be aware of is that (at least in vanilla) entities are only active (ticked) if at least a 5x5 chunk area is loaded around them, meaning that at least that many chunks need to be loaded around it, and their followRange should not exceed the loaded block radius (32 in this example, as measured from the center chunk, not the center of the 5x5 area) so the pathfinder has access to all blocks within its range (at least back in 1.6.4 the game will actually force chunks to load/generate if necessary, which is a major reason why the increased followRange (40-100 blocks) of zombies caused so much server lag; part of my own fix to this reduces their followRange (overridden with 16) when they are far from a player, preventing them from loading chunks outside of what the player loads while not noticeably affecting their ability to target the player from a distance (targeting other mobs may be affected because the distance is from a player, not their target, but that is usually not a concern). Note that Endermen and Ghasts also have very large target ranges (64-100 blocks) but they do not use the pathfinding AI to target the player from those distances, they just measure the distance to the player).

    Posted in: Modification Development
  • 1

    posted a message on Is there really a point to it?

    I've had some ideas that I've never bothered posting because I know that nobody at Mojang will ever see them; for example, recently I've considered a suggestion to remove the ambient lighting in the Overworld (the dim, or not so dim depending on monitor and in-game settings) light you can see in what should otherwise be total darkness, which makes sense in the Nether and End but not in the Overworld. With the right changes even editing the gamma setting to ridiculous levels will not make total darkness brighter, only light levels 1+).

    For an actual example, I posted a suggestion for customization of caves prior to the release of 1.7 (later expanded to include structures) and Mojang never implemented it even though it was one of those things that would literally take 5 minutes to add (speaking as somebody who knows what code changes are actually needed, unlike most people who make suggestions; in fact, customization of most structures is already possible in Superflat worlds, just not Customized) and have little impact on gameplay (unless you have my unique playstyle), and I've seen posts by others on Reddit to add it as well, leading me to think that they do not look at most of the suggestions even there.

    Posted in: Forum Discussion & Info
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    posted a message on How to prevent people from copying your maps and passsing them off as their own (if they posted first)

    Worlds contain the NBT data of every player who has entered the world. So if they just copy the map file, it would have your player data still attached. They would have to remove the data with an NBT editor or copy all of the blocks into a new world to get rid of the data, which most people won't do.


    All they need to do is delete the files within the "player" folder within the save - player names (or UUIDs) are not saved anywhere else in the world unless you tamed an animal (level.dat also stores player data, which overrides the individual player.dat files in singleplayer but it is simply listed under "Player", not your name or UUID).
    Posted in: Maps Discussion
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    posted a message on My thoughts on 1.13's new Default Resource Pack, and Minecraft's evolution in general.
    Quote from ShelLuser»
    Generally speaking I can agree with you, however...


    That is actually not quite true. Many players simply gave up on upgrading entirely and stuck with 1.7 or 1.8, you can see this yourself when looking for very specific PVP servers; many still run on older versions. The same applies to some plugins as well: some are only usable on 1.7/1.8 (also with a pvp emphasis) yet despite that they're still being actively maintained (so we're not talking outdated plugins, but plugins specifically maintained for 1.7/1.8).

    It is easy to revert most of the combat changes with commands; give yourself weapons with a high attack speed and armor with high armor toughness, and possibly re-add sword blocking (is there a way to give a player Resistance when they right-click with a sword? Resistance II-III reduces damage by 40-60% while sword blocking was 50%, if only reducing certain types of damage. Even if not with commands it shouldn't be that hard to wrote a plugin that does this, as well as remove the cooldown and armor penetration so commands are not needed; e.g. items crafted by a player normally). This is one reason why Mojang has not added a gamerule or toggle to switch between the new and old combat (one source of complaints may be due to this though; you have to use cheats to use commands and they may want a no-cheats Survival world).

    The fact that many servers are still in 1.7 also suggests that there is some other reason for not upgrading, similar to how I'm still in 1.6; perhaps the most controversial change in 1.8 was the enchanting and repair system but that doesn't affect PvP much, especially mini-games where you get or find enchanted gear instead of making it yourself. I'm not sure how hard it is to create or update plugins (not necessarily the same as mods, especially non-Forge mods which have unrestricted access to the code) but I did not have much trouble replacing the 1.8 anvil code with code from 1.7.10; I only had to copy+paste the old code in and change/rename one or two things (IIRC a new field was added to the Enchantment class and MCP gave it the name used by one in 1.7.10, which in turn got a new name). The most difficult mods/plugins to update would be ones involved with rendering but that occurs client-side. There were also lots of complaints of lag in 1.8 but surely many players have since upgraded to newer computers for one reason or another, as I did last year (which was not so I could run newer versions without lag).
    Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
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