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    posted a message on [TOOLKIT] Mod Coder Pack (MCP)
    This has nothing to do with MCP, that is a limitation in Minecraft itself. It stores the data as a byte, it transmits it over the network as a byte, it is limited to a byte. You have to use a valid API that supports entities greater then 256.
    Posted in: Minecraft Tools
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    posted a message on Risugami's Mods - Updated.
    Quote from ChE_clarinetist

    I'm going to focus on 2 things here, if you can give me reasonable, non-contradictory answers then I'll shut up and go away.

    1) MLProp is an exact copy of the ModLoader version. Why, when Forge had its own Configuration set-up (that honestly looked better than MLProp) did you need to include MLProp?

    It was required for compatibly sake that we include it. If we did not include it all mods that used the annotation for configurations would either not work, or crash depending on how we decided to get around it.
    However, MLProp is a prime example of something that is not copyrightable. That is only one way to implement it that would work in java, as fundamentally the programming language requires the signatures to match. And that's all MLProp is, a interface. It has no code.

    And if you really wanna get down and dirty, the implementations ARE different, albeit as similar as functionality dictates:
    FML's version.
    ML's version.

    Quote from ChE_clarinetist
    2) You are saying this makes it easier for end-users by simplifying the installaiton procedure. So you should also be OK with having every mod that requires Forge include the full Forge client package in the download for their mod, since it makes it only 1 download and installation procedure, right?

    If you take a look at Forge's License It clearly states that yes, we are perfectly fine with that as long as they follow the rules.
    Which is why mod packs who have everything included are free to redistribuite Forge.

    However from a logical standpoint, it's retarded for EVERY mod to distribute Forge bundled. Just causes issues and redundant instructions/outdated downloads, etc...
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Risugami's Mods - Updated.
    Quote from StarshadesJack
    Yes, but that's always going to be a problem. Even if you outsource RML with FML, there's still going to be idiots who don't do it right. "Simplicity" is a moot argument, in my opinion.

    Actually, now that we have legal mod packs with everything included, you can use launcher programs like MultiMC, or the Spout Launcher to automatically build the jars for you.
    Removing the end users interactions to just 'open this file with this program'
    There is also a project that is in the works {not by me, don't know when it'll come out} that makes installing mod packs a simple 'download and double click this' Similiar to self-extracting zips, but specifically for Minecraft.

    With ML not giving permission to distribute you can't do something like that because trying to get the users to download the file and place it in the proper place is still a issue.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Risugami's Mods - Updated.
    Make a legal mod pack without modloader.
    It's a big pain in the ass for the end user.
    And it's been proven many times that the end users arnt .... ya...
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Risugami's Mods - Updated.
    Quote from StarshadesJack
    Just out of curiosity, what ought Risugami be doing in his position?
    Give permission, or a way to obtain permission in writing for how you are allowed to distribute ModLoader.
    His unwritten stance of "Ask me and it's a no", and "Maybe when I feel like being nice" isn't acceptable for a core dependency of the modding community.

    If in his OP he simply had 'You have the right to redistribute ModLoader in your mod packs, under the condition that you warn your users that I will provide no support for your mod pack and they are not to contact me about it' Everyone would of been happy, and FML would never of been needed client side.

    I'm not saying that it isn't his right to say no, i'm saying that it's not right to be so restrictive/inconsistent with something are fundamental to modding as ModLoader. Hence the need for a free, opensource alternative. There is no way to have a legal mod pack with Risu's current licensing attitude.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Risugami's Mods - Updated.
    Quote from ChE_clarinetist
    Changing names of classes from ModLoader to FMLConnectionHandler does not mean you made something new, it means you used someone else's work and changed names to fool those that do not look more in-depth into the code. And check again, please, about API and copyrights. Any code that a user writes and posts online is automatically copyrighted under US law (and since the forums are US-based, that's what applies).
    -Edit-
    Please re-read those two links about APIs not being copyrightable. That court ruling it says applies ONLY TO THOSE SPECIFIC JAVA APIS, and not to broad APIs in general.

    Please, for the sake of making you appear non-retarded. Show me where we have used ModLoader's CODE, As that law suite states, it is not possible due to the design of java to create a compatible layer that does not use the function/class names exactly as they are. Therefore those specific interfaces, although may contain some artistic expression are not copyrightable.
    It is the BODY of the code that is copyrighted. And even to that extent, the code has to be unique in such a way that it is an artistic expression of the coder, and not the only way to do something.

    So I invite you once again, to show me where we copied his code.
    You can view the entire history of FML from it's commit log.

    Quote from ChE_clarinetist
    Risugami wrote code that changes the behavior of the Minecraft client, ModLoaderMP wrote code that changed the Minecraft server. Big difference there between taking the code for ModLoader's client adjustments and just changing names from ModLoader.method to FMLConnectionHandler.method.

    Once again you're contraducting yourself, Decompile ModLoader, Decompile ModLoaderMP, dis a diff against resulting files. You'll see they are nearly identical. Now, do a diff against any of FML's code you will see that they are unique. So I invite you once again, show me where we have used Risu's code. I assure you that it isn't a "Changing names from ModLoader.method to FMLConnectionHandler.method"

    Quote from ChE_clarinetist

    You don't agree with Risugami's licensing statement? You have 2 choices: deal with it, or create your own version of a ModLoader that does not take directly from Risugami's code like is done here. Risugami has every right to impose these licensing conditions to protect the integrity of his work, ensuring that there are no rogue, outdated copies floating around that claim to be the official, up-to-date version.
    He does, and we respect it, but it's not what he should be doing in his position. So we chose option #2, you're claiming we took his code. I've yet to see your your evidence.

    Quote from ChE_clarinetist
    One final thing, that just shows how little you Forge developers care about licensing agreements. Look through the Minecraft brand guidelines and see how you are violating those with the naming of "Minecraft Forge", since you are using ad.fly links from your own forums you would have to follow the Commercial section.
    There is a bit more of an issue there, and yes, the 'Minecraft Forge' wasn't a good name I did not choose it, Blame Elo/SpaceToad.
    However, if you really wanna dig down into it, ML is just as guilty as us, or anyone else who edits base classes. However, Mojang knows that it is a nessasary evil until the full modding API is out so they really don't care about small fishes. Those brand guidelines are more aimed twards people who are actually trying to pass themselves as offical, which Forge is not.

    Anyways, it's clear that you're just a zealot, but I will invite you once again. If you would like to do your research and have a proper discussion, our IRC channel is always open, #minecraftforge on espernet.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Risugami's Mods - Updated.
    hehe zealots are funny, if you really want to have a logical discussion our channel is always open, but please do some proper research.
    We use none of Risugami's code, APIs are not copyrightable.
    Anyways where is your hype over ModLoaderMP, they are EXACTLY what you're bitching about, a direct copy/paste of Risu's code. Yet I see no uproar over them.
    FML was created because MLMP was not doing it's job.
    It was extended to the client side because Risu was not doing his duty to the community, and refusing to allow for any legal mod packs to be created.

    As for how long it takes ML to update related to Froge/FML.
    FML already runs on the latest snapshots.
    And IIRC the last few updates there have been Forge releases within a day or so.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Minecraft Forge is the devil
    Hehe, Just to chime in:
    We switched away from MLMP because it doesn't work. and it is not compatible with ModLoader, from a programming standpoint. The switch allows for Modders to have less work when porting there mods to SMP, which means that more mods become SMP!

    As for ModLoader, we choose to make FML due to many resons, the number one reson being Risugami's blaitent refusal to play nice with any other mod author, or mod pack creator. Almost every mod pack out there is illegal, because it contains ModLoader, and Risugami only gives permission for people to use it on a whim.

    Also, with bundeling FML with Forge it allows the users to have one install step. Install Forge. Once thats done all other mods should be simply 'Drop info mods folder' and go.

    And lastly, Optifine, sp614x and I have been talking to eachother, we have been working together to make Optifine compatible with Forge, and make Forge friendlier to Optifine, what does this mean? Simpler, faster updates from Optifine, and more possible functionality with Optifine.

    As for the average user, who doesn't care about Optifine, Forge now supports HD textures up to 128x nativly, no need for Optifine. You only need Optifine if you want extra features, like custom colors, or animations.

    So, all in all everything Forge has been doing has been to make the end user's life, mod-dev's life, and minecraft's life easier. So shush, quit complaining because you can't follow directions and install things properly.
    Posted in: Mods Discussion
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    posted a message on FTB Mod Pack Permissions Thread
    Just to double clarify, as an author of Forge, I give permission.
    Also, for any other mod that i've made I give permission, Timer, MusicBox, YUNoMakeGoodMop(NoGen), etc..
    Posted in: Mods Discussion
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    posted a message on [API] Minecraft Forge
    Those arnt errors
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on [1.4.7]Wireless Redstone v1.6.1
    FML has the same dependencies as MLMP.
    That being MCP, and ModLoader, Nothing more, nothing less.
    As it stands, there is no client side FML. Cuz.. that would be ModLoader..
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on [1.4.7]Wireless Redstone v1.6.1
    Quote from kylania

    At the time of that posting it didn't matter, but now it does. Forge is doing away with ModLoader and will not work with it anymore, meaning anything that used ModLoader (ie, this mod) will not work if you're using Forge mods.
    To clarify, We moving away from ModLoaderMP
    Which is the half-assed server side port of ModLoader. In favor of a more faithful, stabler, opensource, quicker-to-update FML. (A new project, so its a work in progress, but the open source part is key, if there are bugs, or it isnt updating fast enough, you can do it yourself)

    In all honesty, converting from ModLoader to FML is simpler then converting from ModLoader to ModLoaderMP
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on [API] Minecraft Forge
    Run the patcher AFTER installing forge.
    Or, like I said, use optifine.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on [API] Minecraft Forge
    Either use Optifine, or disable custom colors.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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