We've already said we don't want people talking about the DWCM on our thread. This is not the right thread to be talking about that on. We are not at war with them. We are not trying to copy them and I'm sure they are not trying to copy us.
I think moderators have already posted here on that discussion and I want to make it clear that messages of slander or even suspected slander will have consequences and that moderators do review this thread as well as all other threads on the forum. To prevent flamewars to occur, please report people that post slander or messages about how these mods copy eachother.
This thread is about this mod and you are all free to discuss it as much as you want, but talking about other mods here is considered off-topic. Let's keep the forum clean
I don't want anything else about the iKing on this thread, if you need to say something about the DWCM or the iKing do it on his forums not here as it leads to spam and people get infractions and it just makes everything seem worse and I really can't be bothered with it.
I totally agree with that. Please also refrain from discussing the weather, storms, or anything offtopic from this mod.
yeah: i have to wait for like a longer time if i want to become a mod
reasons:
-kind of new to the forums
-only 5 friends
-2 (maybe 3) informal infractions
-still kiddish on the forums
-still a back-talker
yeahh, i still have to work to be a mod
It doesn't really matter how new you are to the forums, as long as you have enough posts for us to make a decision on how good of a mod you would be. The amount of friends isn't important as it doesn't really tell anything about your behaviour.
Having infractions, however, as well as being kiddish, might possibly change the way we think about you. A moderator shouldn't offend the rules and if a person offends the rules a lot, he will probably not be a very decent moderator. But opinions and behaviour can change. As long as you have shown that you developed in your forum posts and that you aren't offending the rules anymore, you might as well be chosen as a moderator.
It's ok if you are a moderator and go to a thread and say: "Dude, I really like the mod you have made"
But it's not really considered appropriate to send someone an infraction (which means he gets a warning level) saying "Hey dude, I deleted your message as it was against the rules". But the default warning system already has a build-in greeting so I don't think you will call someone a dude by habit or by accident when giving an infraction.
If you do not have timeti read through 2,000 posts then you would not have time to be a moderator in my opinion. Mods are keeping the forums a safe and friendly place for everyone so they have to practically read every thread and post to make sure they are following the rules and a not off topic.
Correct me if I'm wrong in any way on that mods.
You are right of course, however on a huge forum as minecraftforum it is pretty hard to read évery message. We sure do check as much as we can and I always look and search content to see if it is safe, but it's impossible for us to read through 2000 posts at once. Luckily, because of that we have the report button which is really useful. Of course we moderate non-reported messages as exactly as we moderate the reported ones but it does really help us point out where the bad content is.
I totally agree with cestislife but I would like to add that when you have applied 1 or 2 times, you can be sure that your message has been seen and that people have been thinking really hard. If you aren't accepted you probably aren't suitable to be a mod yet so it's no use sending another application straight after the other ones. You might want to wait a few months before sending a new one, instead of spamming us with more applications.
In theory it is supposed to be superior for the sake of chatting, more streamlined, simple.
Buuut, implementation is iffy, needs work IMO, especially before everyone is shoved off to there.
Remember that the forum is fairly new and citricsquid already announced to work on it, I'm sure he will handle all criticism with care.
Although I'm not active in the off-topic section and chats, I like the idea.
This topic is locked because the list contains mods available for Minecraft 1.5_01 beta (so a very old version, before the official release of Minecraft), and not for Minecraft 1.5 which is playable now.
What does that even mean? "Late"? If you mean to say they teach obsolete stuff, I beg to differ.
I mean that the internet is fairly new and that these teachers need to adapt to NOT teach obsolete stuff. I know a lot of people who dropped out of programming classes because their teacher used very bad and obsolete code and coding styles. Just by looking at the internet, these students became smarter than their teacher. Of course this teacher wasn't a professional programmer (as they stay up to date by using changelogs and docs) but someone who was able to teach the basis of programming to high school.
Bad teaching can happen in any subject, but programming is a little sensitive for this because it's fairly new. That was my point.
How code is written is unimportant. Learning a language is easy. Learning to program is hard. Math is the base of programming. Most people who invented programming had some level of math background. I've talked to a computer scientist about this. He said programming should be compared to engineering, in that the basis is calculus.
How code is written is very important. The interpretation of the mathematics and the translation into how its send into a computer is the only thing someone has to learn to be able to program. Same with engineering, of course it's based on maths but new technologies come into existence every day. You can't disregard any current updates on aerospace engineering when you want to build a proper airplane, just because it has to fly just like it had before those new technologies.
Applying code to a computer, a smartphone, a raspberry pi, etc. requires the same education.
Although it doesn't. Apps are made for an entire different set of customers and are for another purpose, like people quickly checking something or people having to deal with the hardware of a smartphone. Programs for PC don't usually work for smartphones when not edited and you will need to learn how smartphone programming works, a 2005 book won't help you with creating apps.
This doesn't really have much to do with the programming discussion. We don't need to discuss the history of mathematics. You are correct, these ideas existed before, but Newton, Leibniz, Riemann, etc. all developed what is modern calculus.
You brought it up, you said that they invented calculus which we now do like them, and that it was the same as computer programming, while something as math can't be set equal to something as computer programming just because computer programming uses math.
Great, but that doesn't mean the code magically produces itself. Students still need to learn exactly what a programmer from 2000 learned and everything else comes down to checking the API or coding it yourself.
It comes down to knowing what has changed and what has been proven to be useful. If you exclude 8 years of experience you might make mistakes people before that time made and this could lead to inefficient coding. If you are still using md5 which was used before 2005 and will probably in the books, you are going to be unhappy when you find out that it has been cracked and that all official institutions suggest that you use a better hash encryption.
HTML is not a programming language, it's a markup language.
It is, but it is still a language designed for computers to understand and therefor is very related to this discussion, the fact of it being client or server side and what it does exactly is not that important now.
And we learned how to read in English class, correct? Then they read the API. They find the method they need in less than a few minutes and they are coding again. Reading APIs isn't something that is difficult.
We are not talking about people with lot's of experience but about unexperienced people. I had a very bad PHP education because I had tutorials of the time that procedural code was very normal. Now, Object Orientated Programming should be considered the standard when working in groups, teams, or just for yourself. For me, it has taken a lot of time to learn all of PHP's updates to see what I should have done before and what I was doing wrong. Bad habits aren't that easy to un-learn.
Luckily these tools are well documented and readily available. I don't need to be taught how to read an API.
You don't, school students might.
Teachers need to adapt. Books are a collection of information, teachers are the real dividing line between "not getting it" and "getting it". Teachers need to inspire critical thinking. That is their job. Information is readily available, critical thinking is not.
Yes, but these teachers have had education and this education has ALWAYS been in the past, with the books from the past. So you will still have to make sure that the teachers are up to date so why not have the class itself up to date?
May argument is that we don't need to update a book from x amount of years ago because they important part is critical thinking. You obviously didn't read the multiple times I talked about "logic", did you? You did say stuff like that. You said it in your post again, that languages change so you need new tutorials to teach kids these changes. Am I missing something here? I think I hit the nail on the head.
You only used the word critical thinking in the last paragraph so Im not sure how that is a conclusion of what you said, that's why I missed that.
You are very right that critical thinking is the most important part, certainly for a programmer. But when you are TEACHING you are dealing with people that have NO experience whatsoever so it's not really fair to think they can think critically. This is something that they have to learn while learning to program and having them learn tons of stuff that's outdated is not going to teach them critical thinking, it's going to set them on the wrong path.
What I said was that languages and coding habits and coding styles update and that these updates occur because better ways of handling something are found. And that therefor, people should have the most current information on the subject so that they are up to date.
Fairly new teachers, that have teached for 8 years, started their study 13 years ago which is 2000, in which we had a lot of different habits regarding coding (with the most important one being that it was something that programmers did and not just children like a lot of us) and where we were still restricted to the hardware of, let's say, Windows 98 - running machines.
My time needed for school and exams is so high its very hard for me to mod, certainly for the next 4 weeks or so. Then, I still have to face exams but at least I wont have any school then.
Im working on models first, so that they can be used again, and I think that when 1.5 releases, I can actually put in some NEW content.
I have really been thinking about how I wanted this mod to be and I am now certain that I need to look into spacetravel by rockets and terrain generation as a whole. Of course, the current moon landscape isnt that bad but it does have its flaws and bugs and I dont want those.
The gravity needs to be fixed as well (I dont like the current behaviour) and Im afraid that the air system is still bugging out in Multiplayer. It's that I nééd to make a mod for multiplayer and because I want to, that it's still taking me so long to release it.
I could make it SP and have it work perfectly but now, MP is almost totally working apart from the oxygen levels so I really want to tackle that problem instead of giving up all the work.
Oh and the good new is that after those weeks of exams etc, I will have 4 months of free time which Im going to dedicate to doing things I love, with this mod as the main project (further just improving my guitarplaying skills and having fun with friends etc)
Computer programming is essentially a sector of math. Understand that they both use similar logic. That is programming.
A sector, perhaps. But not only a sector of maths. Math is something that is created by facts, while a programming language uses this math but is made for a certain purpose by people. It has a personal influence, that influence is the decision what math is used for the language itself, how this language is formed and how the code is actually written.
Php decided echo 'hello world';
Java went with System.out.print("hello world");
The logic is the same but not the way the code is written. You can't compare code to math, you can only say that programming uses math for doing things.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Where did I mention anything along the lines of theorems?
You talked about Newton and Leibniz who both presented theories on how the world was working. They made these theories by doing math and by solving math problems. Programming languages are made by choices of how to do something and then translating it into computer understandable codes.
False. You have your numbers mixed up. Java was on 5.0 in 2005. Head First Java, one of the most popular Java books today, at least on these forums and elsewhere, was published in 2005. A great example of how it is relevant today.
Newton was fairly late with what inventions? Leibniz and Newton invented calculus within a year of each other. I'd hardly call that "fairly late". Understand though, the languages are just a tool. You have to understand the logic behind it.
The ideas that calculus uses have been around forever (or at least for a very long time) but they were not discovered by people before Newton and Leibniz. They discovered the patterns in math and science that proved theories. Newton lived in the 17/18th century.
In 300 BC, people like Euclid already used the method of exhaustion to calculate areas. Ofcourse this can hardly be said to be calculus but Newton was late in Math with his ideas. Of course we are using his ideas, but the Math ideas of the people from Greece from 300 BC have sometimes been proven unuseful.
It's not that they programmed wrong in the 20th century, but it has become way more efficient (also because a lot of experience was made in the time between then and now)
HTML5 changed a lot, mostly because they saw problems they had with the previous HTML. Of course, the previous HTML was useful as well but it has become more efficient now, in the most cases.
This has nothing to do with understanding how to code things. A computer scientist from 2000 can still code something today.
He can, but if he hasn't followed the current updates in development he will not be as efficient as people who have.
I think I've sort of made a trend in this post, so i'll say it again for reinforcement. Computer science is about logic, the language is just the tool you choose.
You don't get the point. The language is the tool you choose, but the language is the tool that changes over time. And I was talking about why there should be updates in tutorials, because this language is changed because it's a chosen tool and not something set, as math or even the math behind coding.
Math books have changed, but the fundamentals haven't. We still solve integrals the same way, we still take the derivative of things the same way. All people have done is add on to these ideas. And math books aren't updated that much. Most schools use the same calculus book from the 1990s or even earlier. That's mostly because most of what first level calculus students has been the same.
Im not talking about the fundamentals. Im talking about the way we handle them. Education has changed in the 20/21 century, and books should adapt to these changes.
My point is, critical thinking is what computer science is. Not learning "this is what a for loop is". Your argument is based off of the introduction of new things into languages that people used to have to write themselves. Either way, the logic part of programming will never, ever change.
I have never said anything like that. In our argument, your point wasnt that critical thinking is computer science, your point in our discussion was that it doesnt matter that tutorials are old because they are in books.
This is false. Computer programming concepts don't differ much from year to year. The calculus we study today is the same calculus Leibniz and Newton invented hundreds of years ago. Same with computer programming. A book from 2005 is as relevant today as it was 8 years ago. Online resources can often contain false information or just not give students the correct resources to learn programming.
Funny how you compare thousands of years of math to computerprogramming which is hardly 60/70 year old.
Also odd how you compare theorems, formulas that say how everything works, to computer languages. Theorems are set on a certain amount of facts and tend to follow them and give new facts. Computer programming is the act of creating material for computers which is highly related to personal influences.
PHP has a version 5, Java a version 7, and so on with the other languages.
A book from 2005 contains Java 2 code, PHP was around version 4.
Lets take Java as an example. it was made in 1995. This means that 2015 (the year in which we almost are ) is as far from 2005 as 1995 and that the book was made halfway the development of the language, until now. How are you going to compare this to math? If you look at math as a whole, Newton was fairly late with his inventions.
Code does change and computers change, and this is because the technology around it changes. Because we now have smartphones, we need apps. Some languages need to adapt to this, in being either a lighter language to increase performance on a small device, or extra functions for smartphone use.
And it's not just about the languages, it's about the purposes as well. In 1995, they didn't expect that in 2013 there would be tons of teenagers programming. Programming tutorials that are made now know what's happening with code right now, they know what we want mostly (not a CMD screen application but games or apps or good software).
Edit: and together with the above:
The math books have changed as well. The math is the same but the books changed to appeal to the current generations.
0
I think moderators have already posted here on that discussion and I want to make it clear that messages of slander or even suspected slander will have consequences and that moderators do review this thread as well as all other threads on the forum. To prevent flamewars to occur, please report people that post slander or messages about how these mods copy eachother.
This thread is about this mod and you are all free to discuss it as much as you want, but talking about other mods here is considered off-topic. Let's keep the forum clean
0
I totally agree with that. Please also refrain from discussing the weather, storms, or anything offtopic from this mod.
0
Spam also includes messages like "ok", ":)" or images/memes.
Please read the guidelines to see what messages are considered spam or off-topic.
0
It doesn't really matter how new you are to the forums, as long as you have enough posts for us to make a decision on how good of a mod you would be. The amount of friends isn't important as it doesn't really tell anything about your behaviour.
Having infractions, however, as well as being kiddish, might possibly change the way we think about you. A moderator shouldn't offend the rules and if a person offends the rules a lot, he will probably not be a very decent moderator. But opinions and behaviour can change. As long as you have shown that you developed in your forum posts and that you aren't offending the rules anymore, you might as well be chosen as a moderator.
0
It's ok if you are a moderator and go to a thread and say: "Dude, I really like the mod you have made"
But it's not really considered appropriate to send someone an infraction (which means he gets a warning level) saying "Hey dude, I deleted your message as it was against the rules". But the default warning system already has a build-in greeting so I don't think you will call someone a dude by habit or by accident when giving an infraction.
1
You are right of course, however on a huge forum as minecraftforum it is pretty hard to read évery message. We sure do check as much as we can and I always look and search content to see if it is safe, but it's impossible for us to read through 2000 posts at once. Luckily, because of that we have the report button which is really useful. Of course we moderate non-reported messages as exactly as we moderate the reported ones but it does really help us point out where the bad content is.
1
3
Exactly my thoughts
0
Remember that the forum is fairly new and citricsquid already announced to work on it, I'm sure he will handle all criticism with care.
Although I'm not active in the off-topic section and chats, I like the idea.
0
0
I mean that the internet is fairly new and that these teachers need to adapt to NOT teach obsolete stuff. I know a lot of people who dropped out of programming classes because their teacher used very bad and obsolete code and coding styles. Just by looking at the internet, these students became smarter than their teacher. Of course this teacher wasn't a professional programmer (as they stay up to date by using changelogs and docs) but someone who was able to teach the basis of programming to high school.
Bad teaching can happen in any subject, but programming is a little sensitive for this because it's fairly new. That was my point.
0
How code is written is very important. The interpretation of the mathematics and the translation into how its send into a computer is the only thing someone has to learn to be able to program. Same with engineering, of course it's based on maths but new technologies come into existence every day. You can't disregard any current updates on aerospace engineering when you want to build a proper airplane, just because it has to fly just like it had before those new technologies.
Although it doesn't. Apps are made for an entire different set of customers and are for another purpose, like people quickly checking something or people having to deal with the hardware of a smartphone. Programs for PC don't usually work for smartphones when not edited and you will need to learn how smartphone programming works, a 2005 book won't help you with creating apps.
You brought it up, you said that they invented calculus which we now do like them, and that it was the same as computer programming, while something as math can't be set equal to something as computer programming just because computer programming uses math.
It comes down to knowing what has changed and what has been proven to be useful. If you exclude 8 years of experience you might make mistakes people before that time made and this could lead to inefficient coding. If you are still using md5 which was used before 2005 and will probably in the books, you are going to be unhappy when you find out that it has been cracked and that all official institutions suggest that you use a better hash encryption.
It is, but it is still a language designed for computers to understand and therefor is very related to this discussion, the fact of it being client or server side and what it does exactly is not that important now.
We are not talking about people with lot's of experience but about unexperienced people. I had a very bad PHP education because I had tutorials of the time that procedural code was very normal. Now, Object Orientated Programming should be considered the standard when working in groups, teams, or just for yourself. For me, it has taken a lot of time to learn all of PHP's updates to see what I should have done before and what I was doing wrong. Bad habits aren't that easy to un-learn.
You don't, school students might.
Yes, but these teachers have had education and this education has ALWAYS been in the past, with the books from the past. So you will still have to make sure that the teachers are up to date so why not have the class itself up to date?
You only used the word critical thinking in the last paragraph so Im not sure how that is a conclusion of what you said, that's why I missed that.
You are very right that critical thinking is the most important part, certainly for a programmer. But when you are TEACHING you are dealing with people that have NO experience whatsoever so it's not really fair to think they can think critically. This is something that they have to learn while learning to program and having them learn tons of stuff that's outdated is not going to teach them critical thinking, it's going to set them on the wrong path.
What I said was that languages and coding habits and coding styles update and that these updates occur because better ways of handling something are found. And that therefor, people should have the most current information on the subject so that they are up to date.
Fairly new teachers, that have teached for 8 years, started their study 13 years ago which is 2000, in which we had a lot of different habits regarding coding (with the most important one being that it was something that programmers did and not just children like a lot of us) and where we were still restricted to the hardware of, let's say, Windows 98 - running machines.
0
Im working on models first, so that they can be used again, and I think that when 1.5 releases, I can actually put in some NEW content.
I have really been thinking about how I wanted this mod to be and I am now certain that I need to look into spacetravel by rockets and terrain generation as a whole. Of course, the current moon landscape isnt that bad but it does have its flaws and bugs and I dont want those.
The gravity needs to be fixed as well (I dont like the current behaviour) and Im afraid that the air system is still bugging out in Multiplayer. It's that I nééd to make a mod for multiplayer and because I want to, that it's still taking me so long to release it.
I could make it SP and have it work perfectly but now, MP is almost totally working apart from the oxygen levels so I really want to tackle that problem instead of giving up all the work.
Oh and the good new is that after those weeks of exams etc, I will have 4 months of free time which Im going to dedicate to doing things I love, with this mod as the main project (further just improving my guitarplaying skills and having fun with friends etc)
0
A sector, perhaps. But not only a sector of maths. Math is something that is created by facts, while a programming language uses this math but is made for a certain purpose by people. It has a personal influence, that influence is the decision what math is used for the language itself, how this language is formed and how the code is actually written.
Php decided echo 'hello world';
Java went with System.out.print("hello world");
The logic is the same but not the way the code is written. You can't compare code to math, you can only say that programming uses math for doing things.
You talked about Newton and Leibniz who both presented theories on how the world was working. They made these theories by doing math and by solving math problems. Programming languages are made by choices of how to do something and then translating it into computer understandable codes.
Mixed it up with http://download.cnet.com/Java-2-Runtime-Environment-Standard-Edition/3000-2213_4-10260702.html
Java might not have changed that much itself, but the use of it has. Apps and online gaming are becoming way more important.
The ideas that calculus uses have been around forever (or at least for a very long time) but they were not discovered by people before Newton and Leibniz. They discovered the patterns in math and science that proved theories. Newton lived in the 17/18th century.
In 300 BC, people like Euclid already used the method of exhaustion to calculate areas. Ofcourse this can hardly be said to be calculus but Newton was late in Math with his ideas. Of course we are using his ideas, but the Math ideas of the people from Greece from 300 BC have sometimes been proven unuseful.
It's not that they programmed wrong in the 20th century, but it has become way more efficient (also because a lot of experience was made in the time between then and now)
HTML5 changed a lot, mostly because they saw problems they had with the previous HTML. Of course, the previous HTML was useful as well but it has become more efficient now, in the most cases.
He can, but if he hasn't followed the current updates in development he will not be as efficient as people who have.
You don't get the point. The language is the tool you choose, but the language is the tool that changes over time. And I was talking about why there should be updates in tutorials, because this language is changed because it's a chosen tool and not something set, as math or even the math behind coding.
Im not talking about the fundamentals. Im talking about the way we handle them. Education has changed in the 20/21 century, and books should adapt to these changes.
I have never said anything like that. In our argument, your point wasnt that critical thinking is computer science, your point in our discussion was that it doesnt matter that tutorials are old because they are in books.
0
Funny how you compare thousands of years of math to computerprogramming which is hardly 60/70 year old.
Also odd how you compare theorems, formulas that say how everything works, to computer languages. Theorems are set on a certain amount of facts and tend to follow them and give new facts. Computer programming is the act of creating material for computers which is highly related to personal influences.
PHP has a version 5, Java a version 7, and so on with the other languages.
A book from 2005 contains Java 2 code, PHP was around version 4.
Lets take Java as an example. it was made in 1995. This means that 2015 (the year in which we almost are ) is as far from 2005 as 1995 and that the book was made halfway the development of the language, until now. How are you going to compare this to math? If you look at math as a whole, Newton was fairly late with his inventions.
Code does change and computers change, and this is because the technology around it changes. Because we now have smartphones, we need apps. Some languages need to adapt to this, in being either a lighter language to increase performance on a small device, or extra functions for smartphone use.
And it's not just about the languages, it's about the purposes as well. In 1995, they didn't expect that in 2013 there would be tons of teenagers programming. Programming tutorials that are made now know what's happening with code right now, they know what we want mostly (not a CMD screen application but games or apps or good software).
Edit: and together with the above:
The math books have changed as well. The math is the same but the books changed to appeal to the current generations.