Why not just play the game as its intended to be played? I hate the people that complain about farming nerfs, there getting nerfed because it (in a way) is ruining the feel of minecraft.
Because as a sandbox game, there is no real correct way of playing the game. You should be free to play in a style that you want, and if you want to play with automation as part of it, why shouldn't you be able to do that? Putting down on 1 style, and not others doesn't really seem fair to everyone.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this one. Villages becoming overlapped, and staying that way instead of merging together is most definitely not intended behavior. That the game was written in such a way as to allow this doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a bug. By your logic, nothing is a bug, and therefore nothing should ever be fixed. After all, it was written in such a way as to make it possible, right? So that must have been what they meant. Nobody makes mistakes, and everything is always perfect on the first try. Right?
Except, not. Villages are supposed to merge if they get too close together. That they sometimes don't, is a bee-you-gee bug.
I would consider something a feature once it stays that way for almost a year. I never said no one makes mistakes, what I'm trying to say is that most likely when something is around for that long, it usually stays that way because if it indeed is an unintended feature, they should've removed by now, especially with the amount of people in this community searching for bugs and features in the game and posting it on the internet, they should've 'fixed' it long before now if they intended to remove it. It's no secrete this was possible, and they had ignored/not cared for this long, I don't see why it suddenly needs to change. If you're going to argue your point with the x-ray glitch, I'm pretty sure they had tried to fix that for a long time, and finally got around to do it in recent versions.
If they had wanted to make the villages merge every time, they shouldn't have made the game re-evaluate when chunks are reloaded but something like hostile mob despawning, making it dependent on the player rather than chunks being loaded. It doesn't take a genius to come up with an idea to stop villages merging.
Exploiting something which isn't intentional, and using game mechanics that were pretty much a feature is different, but what's more important is that we players can never know something is unintended UNLESS the developers themselves say it's unintended. I can argue that you have no proof that some features are unintended, and you can argue that I have no proof something is intended. So really, saying something is unintended/intended without the developers saying so is not debatable.
I do not agree with any of the the nerf justifications. Iron farms are just another type of farms, so you might as well remove all types of farms and spawners if you think iron farms are bad. This isn't a game with a specific goal, you're free to do what you want to do, play in your own style.
Some of my thoughts about people justifying the nerf:
1) The 'crazy' iron farms were based on a bug
2) Being able to look into the game code is cheating, and therefor building a farm using said knowledge is also cheating
3) But the "standard" design still works. Why complain? It's not like it's completely removed or anything.
4) IT'S NOT FAIR!! I'm jealous of people with so much iron, and because I can never get that many without a farm, it should be removed
5) This is a sandbox game! You should be living off limited resources and fighting for your life and gathering things!
6) It's OP and not balanced
7) I just don't like it because [reasons]
1) They were NOT based on a bug. Village detection method was written in such a way that this could be done. If you think the developers never wanted this to happen, you are also suggesting that either the developers are not checking the code well and are being carelss, or that they just happened to miss this for the past more-than-5 versions. (Golems added in 12w08a according to the wiki) This is quite possibly the most unrealistic argument in this whole thread.
2) With this argument, you can say looking up crafting recipes, build designs and reading the minecraft wiki is cheating. Being able to look into the code is just you being able to read the information which is right in front of your face! It's just in another language, but that doesn't mean being able to read that language marks you as a cheater. Think of this in real life. If you can understand english, and you read/listen something in that language and submit it to work/school, does that make you a cheater because you didn't figure it out yourself USING TRIAL AND ERROR? NO!
3) The difference is waay to much to 'not care and get over with'. The 'standard' designs produce far less than the 'crazy' farm designs. Lets say we take away the ability to create a shelter that's bigger than 3x3x3. Will you 'get over with' because you can still build a small house? Again, NO! Just like you can't put a month old baby and an average 13 year old teenager into a fight and expect this to be a FAIR fight, you can't compare 2 things when they're nowhere near the same level
4) Just because some people are too lazy to do something doesn't mean everyone else has to suffer to be 'equal' with you. Think of this in real life. There are people with jobs, and there are people without jobs. According to this logic, no one should have jobs and money because it's 'not fair' to jobless people. Is that how the world works? NO. People who are actually work for things should be rewarded for the effort they put into. And if you've never built one of the 'crazy' iron farms, you're not in much position to complain. 1 mistake and you're back to square 1.
5) "This is a sandbox game!" EXACTLY. There is no 'wrong' way of playing the game. Each player has it's own style of playing. If you don't like it, don't play that way. If all recourses were limited, then eventually you will run out of materials to play with, and the game will become very dull. Some resources need to be abundant/infinite/farmable to keep the game fun.
You may argue that the world is infinite, so you can travel around and gather resources, so there's no 'need' for farms. If you have to travel for resources, eventually you're gonna get tired of having to move around without being able to settle down, because you'll have to move again soon.
This is a sandbox game. Restrictions should be kept to minimal so that people can play the game in their own fashion.
6) Try building your own foundry/trench and tell me if you think the reward based on the effort needed is balanced. All in survival. Go get the villagers, the redstone (a ton more if using the trench) and also the restriction of being in the spawnpoint (foundry). The trench doesn't need you to place the doors in a certain order, but you need a TON of redstone to do it for you. The foundry is cheaper, but WAY harder to build because doors don't stack as of the version the foundry works on, and you have to go back and forth between main village and the secondary temp village. Build either of these, and you tell me. Is this balanced? If your answer is no, either you're just saying it because you don't agree with me, or you don't have a good grasp on the what is balanced and what isn't.
7) Don't like it? Don't use it. Simple as that.
I may have missed a point or two, so go ahead and let me know. I'd hate to ignore people's arguments.
Also, applogies if I sounded aggressive. I'm just annoyed by how the arguments made by people justifying the nerf are poorly backed up.
File has been removed due to violation of rules from mediafire??? WTF and mega's adfly link is stuck at the 10sec count down and resets itself after clicking the 'click here to continue'. can you fix this please? I really want the mod
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Because as a sandbox game, there is no real correct way of playing the game. You should be free to play in a style that you want, and if you want to play with automation as part of it, why shouldn't you be able to do that? Putting down on 1 style, and not others doesn't really seem fair to everyone.
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I would consider something a feature once it stays that way for almost a year. I never said no one makes mistakes, what I'm trying to say is that most likely when something is around for that long, it usually stays that way because if it indeed is an unintended feature, they should've removed by now, especially with the amount of people in this community searching for bugs and features in the game and posting it on the internet, they should've 'fixed' it long before now if they intended to remove it. It's no secrete this was possible, and they had ignored/not cared for this long, I don't see why it suddenly needs to change. If you're going to argue your point with the x-ray glitch, I'm pretty sure they had tried to fix that for a long time, and finally got around to do it in recent versions.
If they had wanted to make the villages merge every time, they shouldn't have made the game re-evaluate when chunks are reloaded but something like hostile mob despawning, making it dependent on the player rather than chunks being loaded. It doesn't take a genius to come up with an idea to stop villages merging.
Exploiting something which isn't intentional, and using game mechanics that were pretty much a feature is different, but what's more important is that we players can never know something is unintended UNLESS the developers themselves say it's unintended. I can argue that you have no proof that some features are unintended, and you can argue that I have no proof something is intended. So really, saying something is unintended/intended without the developers saying so is not debatable.
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Some of my thoughts about people justifying the nerf:
1) The 'crazy' iron farms were based on a bug
2) Being able to look into the game code is cheating, and therefor building a farm using said knowledge is also cheating
3) But the "standard" design still works. Why complain? It's not like it's completely removed or anything.
4) IT'S NOT FAIR!! I'm jealous of people with so much iron, and because I can never get that many without a farm, it should be removed
5) This is a sandbox game! You should be living off limited resources and fighting for your life and gathering things!
6) It's OP and not balanced
7) I just don't like it because [reasons]
1) They were NOT based on a bug. Village detection method was written in such a way that this could be done. If you think the developers never wanted this to happen, you are also suggesting that either the developers are not checking the code well and are being carelss, or that they just happened to miss this for the past more-than-5 versions. (Golems added in 12w08a according to the wiki) This is quite possibly the most unrealistic argument in this whole thread.
2) With this argument, you can say looking up crafting recipes, build designs and reading the minecraft wiki is cheating. Being able to look into the code is just you being able to read the information which is right in front of your face! It's just in another language, but that doesn't mean being able to read that language marks you as a cheater. Think of this in real life. If you can understand english, and you read/listen something in that language and submit it to work/school, does that make you a cheater because you didn't figure it out yourself USING TRIAL AND ERROR? NO!
3) The difference is waay to much to 'not care and get over with'. The 'standard' designs produce far less than the 'crazy' farm designs. Lets say we take away the ability to create a shelter that's bigger than 3x3x3. Will you 'get over with' because you can still build a small house? Again, NO! Just like you can't put a month old baby and an average 13 year old teenager into a fight and expect this to be a FAIR fight, you can't compare 2 things when they're nowhere near the same level
4) Just because some people are too lazy to do something doesn't mean everyone else has to suffer to be 'equal' with you. Think of this in real life. There are people with jobs, and there are people without jobs. According to this logic, no one should have jobs and money because it's 'not fair' to jobless people. Is that how the world works? NO. People who are actually work for things should be rewarded for the effort they put into. And if you've never built one of the 'crazy' iron farms, you're not in much position to complain. 1 mistake and you're back to square 1.
5) "This is a sandbox game!" EXACTLY. There is no 'wrong' way of playing the game. Each player has it's own style of playing. If you don't like it, don't play that way. If all recourses were limited, then eventually you will run out of materials to play with, and the game will become very dull. Some resources need to be abundant/infinite/farmable to keep the game fun.
You may argue that the world is infinite, so you can travel around and gather resources, so there's no 'need' for farms. If you have to travel for resources, eventually you're gonna get tired of having to move around without being able to settle down, because you'll have to move again soon.
This is a sandbox game. Restrictions should be kept to minimal so that people can play the game in their own fashion.
6) Try building your own foundry/trench and tell me if you think the reward based on the effort needed is balanced. All in survival. Go get the villagers, the redstone (a ton more if using the trench) and also the restriction of being in the spawnpoint (foundry). The trench doesn't need you to place the doors in a certain order, but you need a TON of redstone to do it for you. The foundry is cheaper, but WAY harder to build because doors don't stack as of the version the foundry works on, and you have to go back and forth between main village and the secondary temp village. Build either of these, and you tell me. Is this balanced? If your answer is no, either you're just saying it because you don't agree with me, or you don't have a good grasp on the what is balanced and what isn't.
7) Don't like it? Don't use it. Simple as that.
I may have missed a point or two, so go ahead and let me know. I'd hate to ignore people's arguments.
Also, applogies if I sounded aggressive. I'm just annoyed by how the arguments made by people justifying the nerf are poorly backed up.
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