I'm not 'defending' Microsoft, per se. They don't need defending, they are a gigantic company. If anything I gave them faint praise. I never said that what people claim as being sucky versions of windows didn't suck, necessarily, just that the comparison was invalid. For example, if ME sucked, than so did 98 (And, they did, 9x was a weird hybrid 16-bit 32-bit OS), and if Vista sucks, so did Windows 7. I never said that they didn't suck, just that if they do suck, so too do the OS versions they are being compared to.
Maybe it's because he relies so much on their products and does not want what he has invested so much time into to be hated on?
All I have right now and for the last week or 2 has been a laptop with Mint 13 installed. MonoDevelop isn't a Microsoft Product. I don't "rely" on Visual Studio, since I can program just as well in MonoDevelop with the same language. The only thing I actually missed was Office because I needed to make some changes to a document and all the free equivalents are pretty awful IMO.
My argument against people "hating" an OS- or even a company- be it Microsoft Apple, or whatever, is that there is no reason for a passionate dislike when it comes to something like software. That's sort of why I don't like GNU and FOSS in general, because they are pretty much just founded on a dislike for proprietary software, and I don't like the idea of starting a movement based on a negative.
Oh, and most gamers are probably going to stick with Windows 7 for as long as Microsoft keeps supporting it.
That's what everybody said about Windows 98SE when XP was released, too, though.
In all honesty Windows 8 UI is not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be most people just hate change.
Exactly; when you've seen a big new OS release once, you've really seen them all. And every time people make it out as if the sky is falling, this is going to be the end of Microsoft/Apple whoever, etc. OSX was the end of Apple, every major Windows change (95, XP, Vista, and now win8) was "the end of Microsoft" and so on and so forth. None of those predictions really came true in the end, and the only people that still maintain it are those that avoid the facts of the case and instead employ confirmation bias to prove that MS is in fact dying as a result (for example, I believe this year their revenue was down, and the detractors insist this is because of windows 8, or something).
It all comes down a "the sky is falling" type of thing.
And what I always find ironic, is that Linux advocates constantly talk about the "Windows upgrade march" or "Windows updates being such a pain" and how it switches around the entire desktop, but Distros do that all the time as well, if not more so. Vast majority of Linux users don't necessarily use Linux because they like Linux, but because they hater windows. Personally I prefer to judge software on it's individual merits rather than propaganda and philosophy.
Microsoft you have failed me and removed the start menu! If i wasn't for the fact that most game are more compatibal with Windows i would've switched to Lunix, I find Mac complicated as hell and i will never touch mac with a 10 foot pole, hopefully they'll fix this or i'll just stick with XP or get 7, or get Lunix..
Microsoft you have failed me and removed the start menu! If i wasn't for the fact that most game are more compatibal with Windows i would've switched to Lunix, I find Mac complicated as hell and i will never touch mac with a 10 foot pole, hopefully they'll fix this or i'll just stick with XP or get 7, or get Lunix..
Tell me what is your favorite thing about having the start menu.
[since this seems to be the latest W8 hating thread]
hey! lets get rid of that useful thing where everyone keeps their most used ****!
also, lets get rid of BIOS in the startup, i mean, "I" don't use it, so that must mean no one else does, right?
you know what? since we've already ****ed over the start menu, lets just take our entire tablet OS and shove it onto desktops, what do you mean it doesn't fit? make it fit!
also, lets get rid of BIOS in the startup, i mean, "I" don't use it, so that must mean no one else does, right?
They're not getting rid of the BIOS menu. That's not something Windows can even do. They are giving you a new way to interface with it if it passes by too quickly during boot, though.
hey! lets get rid of that useful thing where everyone keeps their most used ****!
Only if Metro could keep a bunch of your programs in one place at the reach of a click on the left side of the screen like the start menu.
O WAIT that's exactly what Metro is.
He is complaining that he will lose business? Welcome to capitalism Gabe. Of course Microsoft will try to stifle software sales and turn things into their favor. They are a behemoth. Their app store will probably consume everything. I bet they will be getting people to pay THEM to get their software on there, when normally it would be the other way around.
The main issue I have with Win8 is I can't, that I know of, can't disable the metro start screen and just go straight to the desktop. I also hate how the metro apps are full screen, **** that I like to multitask.
EDIT:
I had to go open up the VM to refresh my memory of how the Win8 UI works. I could sit here and ***** about it all night long, but I'd just be iterating whats been said many times before.
This isn't even a thread for that anyways.
OT:
As far as Steam on Windows 8 goes, I don't see why he is so worried. Steam has many users and I doubt they're going to jump ship without a very good reason.
They're not getting rid of the BIOS menu. That's not something Windows can even do. They are giving you a new way to interface with it if it passes by too quickly during boot, though.
yeah, i'm horrible at putting thoughts in my head into words on a page/spoken word. i just see it being more useful as something you can get to even if windows is ****ed over for some reason.
Well, I wont be paying money to upgrade to Windows 8, hell I only just made the 7 jump.
I imagine those who are serious about gaming, i.e. probably most of the people who have a steam account, would most likely stick with an OS that does the job and they are used too, people hate change, it's a fact.
From my experience with 8, in an un-customised state, it feels like a tablet OS, it feels like I should be using a touch screen to be getting around the menus.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has one and some stink, now if someone says your armpits stink it isn't very polite to go rubbing it in their face, it isn't going to make them say yours doesn't stink it'll just make them dislike you and your armpit even more. Remember keep your armpits and opinions respectful.
Vista on it's first release wasn't great, such has home basic and those very early ones, but after a service pack or so, it was fine. Not to say that is any excuse though.
I was running it up until about a month ago and it was fine.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has one and some stink, now if someone says your armpits stink it isn't very polite to go rubbing it in their face, it isn't going to make them say yours doesn't stink it'll just make them dislike you and your armpit even more. Remember keep your armpits and opinions respectful.
I'm not switching to Linux in a million years, I can't run CS5, ITunes, Hamachi, Spotify, MS Office, Fraps, and Skype is watered down to almost nothing. Sure there are work arounds but I don't feel like wasting a huge ass amount of time figuring them out. I tried getting Steam to work with wine for 3 hours, wasted my time cause it wouldn't work. Can't back up my IPod or sync it without ITunes, Linux has other programs for that, but they only let you sync music and they screw up the album artwork. I want an OS that has freedom and flexibility, but is still easy to use. W8 is just a super locked down OS, hell I might switch to OSX one day, but not a lot of my games support it.
You know what else Linux doesn't support? Drivers, without them...
Your USB 7.1 headset wont work correctly, if at all
Your graphics card won;t operate at its best
Forget about SLI/CrossFire
Forget about Nvidia 3D Vision
Forget about Eyefinity/Surround
Forget about Overclocking
Forget macros and keybinding for the expensive mouse and keyboard you bought
First off, I'm not a fan of windows 8, I hate the Metro UI. But you can change the shell back to the old Explorer UI (that's the desktop we all know and love) so, it's not a compete fail.
Now to the Linux basher above me..... You apparently have no idea what your talking about
Overclocking is done on a hardware level, the Operating system has no impact at all on it..
7.1 headset?? my Logitech has no issues at all.
the same goes for my G15 keyboard and G9 mouse
my pair of 260s had no issues with SLI, I dunno about ATI, all my ATI cards have had other issues.
Performance is impacted by drivers and other stuff running, and while the Videocards lose a little performance due to drivers, that was made up for by the small running OS.
I dunno about Eyefinity, again my ATI issues prevented me from testing it, but 3 monitors on a set of NVIDIA cards had no issues.
And as for software, well, if Linux does not have something for it, there's nothing a little WINE can't fix (I don't have time at the moment to relate each piece of software in your list to software available on linux)
and if you absolutly have to have windows for something.. VM
I run Linux windows and Mac due to the nature of my job, and all of them have their strengths and weaknesses. Just because you can't figure out something does not mean someone else can.
First off, I'm not a fan of windows 8, I hate the Metro UI. But you can change the shell back to the old Explorer UI (that's the desktop we all know and love) so, it's not a compete fail.
Now to the Linux basher above me..... You apparently have no idea what your talking about
Overclocking is done on a hardware level, the Operating system has no impact at all on it..
7.1 headset?? my Logitech has no issues at all.
the same goes for my G15 keyboard and G9 mouse
my pair of 260s had no issues with SLI, I dunno about ATI, all my ATI cards have had other issues.
Performance is impacted by drivers and other stuff running, and while the Videocards lose a little performance due to drivers, that was made up for by the small running OS.
I dunno about Eyefinity, again my ATI issues prevented me from testing it, but 3 monitors on a set of NVIDIA cards had no issues.
And as for software, well, if Linux does not have something for it, there's nothing a little WINE can't fix (I don't have time at the moment to relate each piece of software in your list to software available on linux)
and if you absolutly have to have windows for something.. VM
I run Linux windows and Mac due to the nature of my job, and all of them have their strengths and weaknesses. Just because you can't figure out something does not mean someone else can.
When I said 7.1 headset I was specifically referring to USB headsets that rely on drivers, such as Corsair, Razer, etc. Either your headset is true 7.1 or it is just giving you stereo. Also does your mouse/keyboard have the ability to bind keys or create macros? for example I have a Nostromo, without the driver and utility I can't set it up the way I need it to.
Also WINE CAN NOT run everything, besides the work arounds aren't the best, as I said I couldn't get anything to run with WINE, I didn't feel like wasting more time on it so I gave up, I spend a good amount of money on things such as ITunes, I don't want it to go to waste. Linux does have alternatives, however they lack a lot, as I said I can't back up my IPod, sync anything other than music, and ohh, the album artwork gets screwed over, might not be a big deal to you but it is to me. Skype on Linux looks like Hamachi, a small little box which shows very few things, not fun. Sure Linux is a better OS, ONLY if you have a crap a** amount of time to work with it, most people don't, I only used it because my crappy hard drive failed on me, I used it for a month until my friend got me a back up disc for W7, at which point I was more than happy to return to the OS where I can actually run the stuff i want without going through a bunch of bs. If more programs suported Linux i would love to use it, but seeing as they don't I won't even bother with it.
You also didn't mention Nvidia 3D, what if someone wants to run that?
Listen, I'm not trying to bash Linux, all I'm saying is that it is not the most user friendly OS there is, and your average gamer doesn't want to f*** around for 20 years figuring out how to get <insert program name> to work.
When I said 7.1 headset I was specifically referring to USB headsets that rely on drivers, such as Corsair, Razer, etc. Either your headset is true 7.1 or it is just giving you stereo. Also does your mouse/keyboard have the ability to bind keys or create macros? for example I have a Nostromo, without the driver and utility I can't set it up the way I need it to.
Also WINE CAN NOT run everything, besides the work arounds aren't the best, as I said I couldn't get anything to run with WINE, I didn't feel like wasting more time on it so I gave up, I spend a good amount of money on things such as ITunes, I don't want it to go to waste. Linux does have alternatives, however they lack a lot, as I said I can't back up my IPod, sync anything other than music, and ohh, the album artwork gets screwed over, might not be a big deal to you but it is to me. Skype on Linux looks like Hamachi, a small little box which shows very few things, not fun. Sure Linux is a better OS, ONLY if you have a crap a** amount of time to work with it, most people don't, I only used it because my crappy hard drive failed on me, I used it for a month until my friend got me a back up disc for W7, at which point I was more than happy to return to the OS where I can actually run the stuff i want without going through a bunch of bs. If more programs suported Linux i would love to use it, but seeing as they don't I won't even bother with it.
You also didn't mention Nvidia 3D, what if someone wants to run that?
Listen, I'm not trying to bash Linux, all I'm saying is that it is not the most user friendly OS there is, and your average gamer doesn't want to f*** around for 20 years figuring out how to get <insert program name> to work.
Uhh my corsair headset works just fine under Ubuntu so did my creative one.
On driver issues Windows actually has more for me my laptop is not supported under windows 8 so I had to hack the inf file Ubuntus additional drivers has always gotten me working Video card drivers excluding right when I got my 6970 only a few weeks after release.
Most of HPs print drivers don't work under Windows and their universal one is useless.
Ubuntu has no problem using generic printer drivers to use them this is one of the reasons the library I worked for moved all of their machines over to Ubuntu.
Also your fault for using shitty Apple products don't blame Linux because Apple refuses to support that platform.
Android works just fine under Linux if not better.
Linux has many issues mostly poor opengl support in Nvidia drivers and to a lesser extent Intel and AMD drivers.
This is something Valve is going to have to deal with I know they have been working with Intel but Nvidia is the one they really need to work with.
[since this seems to be the latest W8 hating thread]
hey! lets get rid of that useful thing where everyone keeps their most used ****!
The Program Manager was actually removed in Windows 95. Nobody misses it.
But people were up in arms when it was removed, using this exact same argument...
also, lets get rid of BIOS in the startup, i mean, "I" don't use it, so that must mean no one else does, right?
UEFI is not an inherent requirement of Windows 8 on the desktop. UEFI is only required for windows 8 on non x86 processors, which will be exclusive to tablet/phone use.
Vista DID suck, but more than anything it was a half-finished Windows 7 put on the market to generate some revenue for Microsoft while they made Windows 7.
The only argument that can support Vista sucking would be the original issue with File Copying, which was related to a change to a cache strategy. This was fixed in SP1. Other than that, it was coming out after the longest gap between windows versions, which bred a lot of animosity.
Uhh my corsair headset works just fine under Ubuntu so did my creative one.
On driver issues Windows actually has more for me my laptop is not supported under windows 8 so I had to hack the inf file Ubuntus additional drivers has always gotten me working Video card drivers excluding right when I got my 6970 only a few weeks after release.
Most of HPs print drivers don't work under Windows and their universal one is useless.
Ubuntu has no problem using generic printer drivers to use them this is one of the reasons the library I worked for moved all of their machines over to Ubuntu.
Also your fault for using shitty Apple products don't blame Linux because Apple refuses to support that platform.
Android works just fine under Linux if not better.
Linux has many issues mostly poor opengl support in Nvidia drivers and to a lesser extent Intel and AMD drivers.
This is something Valve is going to have to deal with I know they have been working with Intel but Nvidia is the one they really need to work with.
Please show me a device as equally good as an IPod touch? You can't....
I'm not 'defending' Microsoft, per se. They don't need defending, they are a gigantic company. If anything I gave them faint praise. I never said that what people claim as being sucky versions of windows didn't suck, necessarily, just that the comparison was invalid. For example, if ME sucked, than so did 98 (And, they did, 9x was a weird hybrid 16-bit 32-bit OS), and if Vista sucks, so did Windows 7. I never said that they didn't suck, just that if they do suck, so too do the OS versions they are being compared to.
All I have right now and for the last week or 2 has been a laptop with Mint 13 installed. MonoDevelop isn't a Microsoft Product. I don't "rely" on Visual Studio, since I can program just as well in MonoDevelop with the same language. The only thing I actually missed was Office because I needed to make some changes to a document and all the free equivalents are pretty awful IMO.
My argument against people "hating" an OS- or even a company- be it Microsoft Apple, or whatever, is that there is no reason for a passionate dislike when it comes to something like software. That's sort of why I don't like GNU and FOSS in general, because they are pretty much just founded on a dislike for proprietary software, and I don't like the idea of starting a movement based on a negative.
That's what everybody said about Windows 98SE when XP was released, too, though.
Exactly; when you've seen a big new OS release once, you've really seen them all. And every time people make it out as if the sky is falling, this is going to be the end of Microsoft/Apple whoever, etc. OSX was the end of Apple, every major Windows change (95, XP, Vista, and now win8) was "the end of Microsoft" and so on and so forth. None of those predictions really came true in the end, and the only people that still maintain it are those that avoid the facts of the case and instead employ confirmation bias to prove that MS is in fact dying as a result (for example, I believe this year their revenue was down, and the detractors insist this is because of windows 8, or something).
It all comes down a "the sky is falling" type of thing.
And what I always find ironic, is that Linux advocates constantly talk about the "Windows upgrade march" or "Windows updates being such a pain" and how it switches around the entire desktop, but Distros do that all the time as well, if not more so. Vast majority of Linux users don't necessarily use Linux because they like Linux, but because they hater windows. Personally I prefer to judge software on it's individual merits rather than propaganda and philosophy.
Tell me what is your favorite thing about having the start menu.
hey! lets get rid of that useful thing where everyone keeps their most used ****!
also, lets get rid of BIOS in the startup, i mean, "I" don't use it, so that must mean no one else does, right?
you know what? since we've already ****ed over the start menu, lets just take our entire tablet OS and shove it onto desktops, what do you mean it doesn't fit? make it fit!
They're not getting rid of the BIOS menu. That's not something Windows can even do. They are giving you a new way to interface with it if it passes by too quickly during boot, though.
Only if Metro could keep a bunch of your programs in one place at the reach of a click on the left side of the screen like the start menu.
O WAIT that's exactly what Metro is.
PROTIP: It's not normally the other way around.
EDIT:
I had to go open up the VM to refresh my memory of how the Win8 UI works. I could sit here and ***** about it all night long, but I'd just be iterating whats been said many times before.
This isn't even a thread for that anyways.
OT:
As far as Steam on Windows 8 goes, I don't see why he is so worried. Steam has many users and I doubt they're going to jump ship without a very good reason.
I imagine those who are serious about gaming, i.e. probably most of the people who have a steam account, would most likely stick with an OS that does the job and they are used too, people hate change, it's a fact.
From my experience with 8, in an un-customised state, it feels like a tablet OS, it feels like I should be using a touch screen to be getting around the menus.
I was running it up until about a month ago and it was fine.
You know what else Linux doesn't support? Drivers, without them...
Now to the Linux basher above me..... You apparently have no idea what your talking about
Overclocking is done on a hardware level, the Operating system has no impact at all on it..
7.1 headset?? my Logitech has no issues at all.
the same goes for my G15 keyboard and G9 mouse
my pair of 260s had no issues with SLI, I dunno about ATI, all my ATI cards have had other issues.
Performance is impacted by drivers and other stuff running, and while the Videocards lose a little performance due to drivers, that was made up for by the small running OS.
I dunno about Eyefinity, again my ATI issues prevented me from testing it, but 3 monitors on a set of NVIDIA cards had no issues.
And as for software, well, if Linux does not have something for it, there's nothing a little WINE can't fix (I don't have time at the moment to relate each piece of software in your list to software available on linux)
and if you absolutly have to have windows for something.. VM
I run Linux windows and Mac due to the nature of my job, and all of them have their strengths and weaknesses. Just because you can't figure out something does not mean someone else can.
Also WINE CAN NOT run everything, besides the work arounds aren't the best, as I said I couldn't get anything to run with WINE, I didn't feel like wasting more time on it so I gave up, I spend a good amount of money on things such as ITunes, I don't want it to go to waste. Linux does have alternatives, however they lack a lot, as I said I can't back up my IPod, sync anything other than music, and ohh, the album artwork gets screwed over, might not be a big deal to you but it is to me. Skype on Linux looks like Hamachi, a small little box which shows very few things, not fun. Sure Linux is a better OS, ONLY if you have a crap a** amount of time to work with it, most people don't, I only used it because my crappy hard drive failed on me, I used it for a month until my friend got me a back up disc for W7, at which point I was more than happy to return to the OS where I can actually run the stuff i want without going through a bunch of bs. If more programs suported Linux i would love to use it, but seeing as they don't I won't even bother with it.
You also didn't mention Nvidia 3D, what if someone wants to run that?
Listen, I'm not trying to bash Linux, all I'm saying is that it is not the most user friendly OS there is, and your average gamer doesn't want to f*** around for 20 years figuring out how to get <insert program name> to work.
Uhh my corsair headset works just fine under Ubuntu so did my creative one.
On driver issues Windows actually has more for me my laptop is not supported under windows 8 so I had to hack the inf file Ubuntus additional drivers has always gotten me working Video card drivers excluding right when I got my 6970 only a few weeks after release.
Most of HPs print drivers don't work under Windows and their universal one is useless.
Ubuntu has no problem using generic printer drivers to use them this is one of the reasons the library I worked for moved all of their machines over to Ubuntu.
Also your fault for using shitty Apple products don't blame Linux because Apple refuses to support that platform.
Android works just fine under Linux if not better.
Linux has many issues mostly poor opengl support in Nvidia drivers and to a lesser extent Intel and AMD drivers.
This is something Valve is going to have to deal with I know they have been working with Intel but Nvidia is the one they really need to work with.
The Program Manager was actually removed in Windows 95. Nobody misses it.
But people were up in arms when it was removed, using this exact same argument...
UEFI is not an inherent requirement of Windows 8 on the desktop. UEFI is only required for windows 8 on non x86 processors, which will be exclusive to tablet/phone use.
The only argument that can support Vista sucking would be the original issue with File Copying, which was related to a change to a cache strategy. This was fixed in SP1. Other than that, it was coming out after the longest gap between windows versions, which bred a lot of animosity.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-3-6-Inch-Galaxy-Player-NEW/dp/B007M6EYU2
There you go.