Most people 1) expected the new flagship to be quite a bit more powerful, even if it necessitated a larger die, and 2) didn't expect the ENTIRE REST OF THE LINEUP TO BE REBRANDS.
Most people 1) expected the new flagship to be quite a bit more powerful, even if it necessitated a larger die, and 2) didn't expect the ENTIRE REST OF THE LINEUP TO BE REBRANDS.
Well I'm glad I was very optimistic then. Ensured I wasn't really disappointed...
Still the new software based stuff does seem like it could be pretty neat. So long as companies actually make use of it anyway.
Not in aus they haven't, still ~$800 and $840 for the direct cu ii which I want.. >.>
780 dropped $60 at pccasegear. I get all fluctuations of australian retailers prices emailed to me every 24 hours. theres a 780 that dropped $60 at pccg.
780 dropped $60 at pccasegear. I get all fluctuations of australian retailers prices emailed to me every 24 hours. theres a 780 that dropped $60 at pccg.
Oh, I think that might've been the palit jetstream. It's almost $100 cheaper than the next cheapest... That said, it's still hardly a bargain at $720...
Goddamn aussie prices... Hopefully 290x causes a drop big enough to drop the 780's down to at least $750. Bet the 290x will launch at $700 or something stupid here in aus as well...
Most people 1) expected the new flagship to be quite a bit more powerful, even if it necessitated a larger die, and 2) didn't expect the ENTIRE REST OF THE LINEUP TO BE REBRANDS.
I don't give a crap if it's a rebrand, as long as it offers better price/performance than Nvidia I'm sold. And from what I can see so far, it looks to be pretty good on that front.
Mantle certainly sounds promising but I cannot really see it taking off in the near future since Nvidia already holds a bigger market share than AMD and Mantle on the AMD side is limit to the 7000 series and above. So realistically and even smaller percentage of people will have access to Mantle.
Of course you are going to get games such as BF4 that are partnered with AMD, who will implement Mantle for GCN enabled cards but for many developers it really wouldn't make much sense for the extra work it would require for the volume of people who would benefit it.
Not to say it doesn't look interesting, as if Mantle does take a big hold in the market I may look into switching.
Yah I have the exact same opinion. I think it's just going to be too much work to use mantle AND directx to allow the majority of consumers to be able to play their games. I have a feeling unless it's adopted by nvidia, it's just going to fall by the wayside.
I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia did adopt Mantle. Of course I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented their own low level API and called it MantleFX >_>
I think everyone is forgetting the fact that the consoles are also GCN. This means we'll likely see Mantle on the consoles in the near future.
Consoles don't need Mantle, Mantle is a low level console like API for Windows. Unless of course MS is being a jerk and is requiring all devs to use Dx11.1 on the new console.
Consoles don't need Mantle, Mantle is a low level console like API for Windows. Unless of course MS is being a jerk and is requiring all devs to use Dx11.1 on the new console.
Source for Microsoft forcing them to?
The Ps4 for all we know could be using Mantle there is no reason why the consoles can't.
The Xbox will use DirectX. The PS4 will be using OpenGL. That doesn't mean anything though. AMD is designing the API around their GCN, which both consoles use. The APIs on the consoles are already sufficiently low level for developers, but being able to write in Mantle gives another option to them. It will also make porting the games between consoles that much easier if they don't have to rewrite the engine in both OpenGL and DX. It makes sense to write in Mantle then, and have one of the others as a backup for any non-AMD systems on PC.
Again, it depends on whether or not MS and Sony will allow Mantle to be used. That's something we'll have to see moving forward.
The Xbox will use DirectX. The PS4 will be using OpenGL. That doesn't mean anything though. AMD is designing the API around their GCN, which both consoles use. The APIs on the consoles are already sufficiently low level for developers, but being able to write in Mantle gives another option to them. It will also make porting the games between consoles that much easier if they don't have to rewrite the engine in both OpenGL and DX. It makes sense to write in Mantle then, and have one of the others as a backup for any non-AMD systems on PC.
Again, it depends on whether or not MS and Sony will allow Mantle to be used. That's something we'll have to see moving forward.
Neither Console is running OpenGL or DirectX right out. The Xbox implements a custom version of DirectX the PS4 uses a low level API.
"One of them is the absolute low-level API, you're talking directly to the hardware. It's used to draw the static RAM buffers and feed them directly to the GPU," Norden shared. "It's much, much lower level than you're used to with DirectX or OpenGL but it's not quite at the driver level. It's very similar if you've programmed PS3 or PS Vita, very similar to those graphics libraries."
Sony also mentioned a wrapper to allow high level API to run on this low level API. So it is probably a OpenGL ES wrapper because the Ps4 supports OpenGL ES
The Ps4 APU also allows DirectX HLSL to run on it just like Mantle.
I still think it would make sense for the industry to have Mantle used on both.
Except it doesn't make sense for console manufacturers as now then they would have to create another API for their console.
Anyways, I wouldn't want Mantle to dominate everything. I want Mantle because it could push innovation, but if it destroys DirectX and OpenGL, it will stagnate and no longer innovate. Competition is why I want it. GL and Dx aren't pushing new boundaries.
Except it doesn't make sense for console manufacturers as now then they would have to create another API for their console.
Anyways, I wouldn't want Mantle to dominate everything. I want Mantle because it could push innovation, but if it destroys DirectX and OpenGL, it will stagnate and no longer innovate. Competition is why I want it. GL and Dx aren't pushing new boundaries.
Unless Mantle is the API they are using right now.
They aren't competing they are serving different goals. If DX and GL aren't competition to push innovation why would Mantle change anything?
Except it doesn't make sense for console manufacturers as now then they would have to create another API for their console.
Anyways, I wouldn't want Mantle to dominate everything. I want Mantle because it could push innovation, but if it destroys DirectX and OpenGL, it will stagnate and no longer innovate. Competition is why I want it. GL and Dx aren't pushing new boundaries.
How would Mantle spur innovation if it's hardly ever used? Would not the fact that GL and DX are used more often mean they are the superior option?
20nm and dropping several months later?
Not sure why people would expect otherwise, even if VI were completely beast...
Well I'm glad I was very optimistic then. Ensured I wasn't really disappointed...
Still the new software based stuff does seem like it could be pretty neat. So long as companies actually make use of it anyway.
Implying it does...
780 dropped $60 at pccasegear. I get all fluctuations of australian retailers prices emailed to me every 24 hours. theres a 780 that dropped $60 at pccg.
Oh, I think that might've been the palit jetstream. It's almost $100 cheaper than the next cheapest... That said, it's still hardly a bargain at $720...
Goddamn aussie prices... Hopefully 290x causes a drop big enough to drop the 780's down to at least $750. Bet the 290x will launch at $700 or something stupid here in aus as well...
And Bulldozer was supposed to compete with Nehalem and Steamroller with Sandybridge. Kaveri was supposed to compete with Haswell but now Trinity is.
Nothing is set in stone and things can get delayed very easily.
I don't give a crap if it's a rebrand, as long as it offers better price/performance than Nvidia I'm sold. And from what I can see so far, it looks to be pretty good on that front.
Yah I have the exact same opinion. I think it's just going to be too much work to use mantle AND directx to allow the majority of consumers to be able to play their games. I have a feeling unless it's adopted by nvidia, it's just going to fall by the wayside.
"Programmers never repeat themselves. They loop."
Consoles don't need Mantle, Mantle is a low level console like API for Windows. Unless of course MS is being a jerk and is requiring all devs to use Dx11.1 on the new console.
Source for Microsoft forcing them to?
The Ps4 for all we know could be using Mantle there is no reason why the consoles can't.
The Xbox will use DirectX. The PS4 will be using OpenGL. That doesn't mean anything though. AMD is designing the API around their GCN, which both consoles use. The APIs on the consoles are already sufficiently low level for developers, but being able to write in Mantle gives another option to them. It will also make porting the games between consoles that much easier if they don't have to rewrite the engine in both OpenGL and DX. It makes sense to write in Mantle then, and have one of the others as a backup for any non-AMD systems on PC.
Again, it depends on whether or not MS and Sony will allow Mantle to be used. That's something we'll have to see moving forward.
"Programmers never repeat themselves. They loop."
Neither Console is running OpenGL or DirectX right out. The Xbox implements a custom version of DirectX the PS4 uses a low level API.
"One of them is the absolute low-level API, you're talking directly to the hardware. It's used to draw the static RAM buffers and feed them directly to the GPU," Norden shared. "It's much, much lower level than you're used to with DirectX or OpenGL but it's not quite at the driver level. It's very similar if you've programmed PS3 or PS Vita, very similar to those graphics libraries."
Sony also mentioned a wrapper to allow high level API to run on this low level API. So it is probably a OpenGL ES wrapper because the Ps4 supports OpenGL ES
The Ps4 APU also allows DirectX HLSL to run on it just like Mantle.
I still think it would make sense for the industry to have Mantle used on both.
"Programmers never repeat themselves. They loop."
It probably is I am sure as more details come out developers might spill the bean on what the APIs are.
Except it doesn't make sense for console manufacturers as now then they would have to create another API for their console.
Anyways, I wouldn't want Mantle to dominate everything. I want Mantle because it could push innovation, but if it destroys DirectX and OpenGL, it will stagnate and no longer innovate. Competition is why I want it. GL and Dx aren't pushing new boundaries.
Unless Mantle is the API they are using right now.
They aren't competing they are serving different goals. If DX and GL aren't competition to push innovation why would Mantle change anything?
How would Mantle spur innovation if it's hardly ever used? Would not the fact that GL and DX are used more often mean they are the superior option?
"Programmers never repeat themselves. They loop."