How will it handle backwards compatible? Will they use virtualization if so that's' going to have a huge performance impact.
This my concern for next Xbox and PlayStation.
Unfortunately, this gen looks like 0 backwards compatibility across all platforms, with a minor exception.
The post-Vita and post-DS handhelds are rumored (read: leaked documents from industry hardware manufacturers for test devices) to run on completely new hardware setups, making them incompatible from the start. The 720 and PS4 being x86 or x64 based means the IBM based games from the 360, PS2 and PS3 will likely simply not run, even through virtualization/emulation, I doubt they would make the hardware beefy enough to handle it (unless they excessively used SSE3/SSE4). Regular Xbox games might run since that console was Intel based..... But I doubt it.
The WiiU being the only console of this gen (although it's technically not due to it's weird release time and hardware, ever since the wii nintendo seems to like doing "0.5" generation consoles) that is backwards compatible--but only with the Wii discs. Gamecube and other old console games will be able to be played, but only through the new store as a download. This suggests it CANNOT natively play gamecube discs any more, since the Wii was basically a gamecube (literally, very similar CPU and very similar GPU just slightly beefed up) it likely uses some sort of pseudo-hardware emulation since the Wiiu is supposed to use another IBM PowerPC based chip.
is the 16 gb of ram just for the devs or will they keep it in it seems somewhat over the top
Considering it is APU based, it is likely shared system/VRAM which is sorely needed.
Remember now, current games can use upwards of 2-4GB of VRAM at max graphics on a single 1080p screen. These consoles will all support 3D to some degree so this makes even more sense here as proper 3D requires a lot of VRAM depending on how it's done.
The main problem with the current consoles (360 ESPECIALLY) is the low amount of VRAM to work with. This sort-of future proofs the consoles slightly. Chances are, by the time these are old (give or take 6-8+ years), 8GB of VRAM might be the nrom.
Even then, another HUGE complaint were load times on the PS3 and 360, even after HDD installation. RAM cache for the assets and then reading normal important data off the HDD (like a normal PC does) would be far more efficient and far better overall.
Earlier reports suggested a discrete graphic card as well as the APU. I don't think the APU's integrated GPU alone will be enough for a next generation console.
Earlier reports suggested a discrete graphic card as well as the APU. I don't think the APU's integrated GPU alone will be enough for a next generation console.
It's odd that nobody remembers that.
NOT TRUE
When games are developed for console, they are mainstream. Because its the same hardware, unlike PC/Mac in which the hardware varies so they must adjust to be able to work on almost all hardware.
However PC/Macs also has other things going in background. So they need much more processing power then a console, which does only 1 thing and purpose.
When games are developed for console, they are mainstream. Because its the same hardware, unlike PC/Mac in which the hardware varies so they must adjust to be able to work on almost all hardware.
However PC/Macs also has other things going in background. So they need much more processing power then a console, which does only 1 thing and purpose.
It is possible to do this on a all in one chip.
It also worth mentioning this is probably a custom A10 it might have a beefier GPU then its PC counterparts an its probably kaveri based and using custom ram like Xdr2 to push the APU faster and if not that it will probably be highspeed DDR4.
Kaveri is supposed to bring GPU memory and CPU memory all into one memory space so highspeed onboard RAM like XDR2 could basically give the PS4 VRAM.
AMD said the Kaveri A10 will be capable of 1TFLOPS and all the games could use HSA making programming for the console very easy.
The current generation of consoles was designed and developed in 2004/2005, which is where their graphics performance is from.
These current ones are using AMD APU based GPUs and CPUs, meaning the graphics will not be from their development cycle of 2010-2011, but rather, from their development releases of tech from 2012. Considering the devkits are out, this shows release at either 2014 or 2015, which is not bad at all.
The biggest thing to take away from this isnow that the devkits are being sent out to publishers and developers, this means the specs are near finalized and the console's technical specifications will likely change very little from now until release, if at all.
Remember now, the Xbox 720 will be running a similar setup with an AMD APU based console, supposedly.
They will make cross-platform (including cross-console/PC) games far easier and cheaper to develop.
They will be cheaper to produce rather than using custom hardware.
That said, Devkits are usually on the platform the console is, so this is a good sign that this is 100% true.
Remember now, the Xbox 360, Wii, and Gamecube were all PowerPC based, and their devkits were also PowerPC based. The Xbox 360s, for instance, were 2003 or 2004 Mac Pros.
For reference (and because I feel like an imagedump) here are some:
Xbox 360 devkit (Note that it's a Mac pro, making sense because they were PowerPC based, just like the 360, so they could play the games natively):
Gamecube devkit (Note the same as above, the innards are basically just an IBM PowerPC computer) also notice the Dolphin sticker, the gamecube's codename was "Project Dolphin". This might ring a bell with people who know about the Gamecube emulator, by the same name, this is where that name comes from:
Wii devkit. Same deal as the GC one above:
Original Xbox devkit, this one was actually a custom Intel CPU, so once again, it is essentially just a normal computer:
PS3 devkit, since this one uses a custom IBM Cell processor, the kits are custom made in collaboration with IBM, these are the odd ones out in terms of "just being normal computers" since they are not based on anything like the above are:
And for the hell of it:
Dreamcast (Note the ATX PSU and IDE HDD):
DS (Notice the "wireless" ethernet port, and one AVI out for each screen):
PSP (Note the UMD drive):
And now, the greatest of them all, behold, the monolith that is......
The GIGANTIC PS2 devkit. Normal PS2 and live human for size comparison. It's about as big as an ATX mid tower.
The back:
How is it crappy? It's developed with modern tech, just like all consoles in the post-development cycle.
What i meant is that the graphics wont be as amazing as i once thought they were gonna be.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
~i dont run away from you....i walk slowly and it kills me that you dont care enough to stop me......You think this is truly the end hero NAH it has only just begun!
The point of the consoles are cheap efficient gaming machines.
They won't be cheap if they use APUs. The standard cheapo A10 MiniITX or MicroATX build costs around $500-525, and to add XDR2 memory or whatever will push the price way up. Then you have gimmicks like a Blu-ray drive.
They won't be cheap if they use APUs. The standard cheapo A10 MiniITX or MicroATX build costs around $500-525, and to add XDR2 memory or whatever will push the price way up. Then you have gimmicks like a Blu-ray drive.
etc.
They are custom A10s to start with and Microsoft often contracts foxxcon to make custom motherboards for them.
Microsoft is not a consumer they get things from the source without middlemen driving up the costs.
You know that most of that price is just pure profit for the reseller of the parts? Building something like a console with a bit more standardized hardware is likely to bring the price down.
Obviously.
Not as good as I'd expect on the hardware side though.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Neckbeards! Doctor Cichocki does not approve of stupidity and neither do I, stop the spread of damned useless rules!
Earlier reports suggested a discrete graphic card as well as the APU. I don't think the APU's integrated GPU alone will be enough for a next generation console.
It's odd that nobody remembers that.
Yes, but these are confirmed reports about the devkits having APU-like hardware.
I think an APU would be PLENTY for a console. The graphics will be kept up to par, and the price will be kept within the "console range".
What were you expecting two 8970?
Consoles typically get a few cool new features we gotta wait for on PC but have low end GPUs.
Also more proof of my custom APU statements.
"Our semi-custom APUs already have a number of confidential high-volume design wins in place" Rory Read.
This is also very good news for AMD they have hardware in all 3 consoles this generation.
This also will mean amazing PC ports if you are running AMD hardware.
Erm....no, i was just expecting a decent performance boost from the last gen consoles.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
~i dont run away from you....i walk slowly and it kills me that you dont care enough to stop me......You think this is truly the end hero NAH it has only just begun!
The post-Vita and post-DS handhelds are rumored (read: leaked documents from industry hardware manufacturers for test devices) to run on completely new hardware setups, making them incompatible from the start. The 720 and PS4 being x86 or x64 based means the IBM based games from the 360, PS2 and PS3 will likely simply not run, even through virtualization/emulation, I doubt they would make the hardware beefy enough to handle it (unless they excessively used SSE3/SSE4). Regular Xbox games might run since that console was Intel based..... But I doubt it.
The WiiU being the only console of this gen (although it's technically not due to it's weird release time and hardware, ever since the wii nintendo seems to like doing "0.5" generation consoles) that is backwards compatible--but only with the Wii discs. Gamecube and other old console games will be able to be played, but only through the new store as a download. This suggests it CANNOT natively play gamecube discs any more, since the Wii was basically a gamecube (literally, very similar CPU and very similar GPU just slightly beefed up) it likely uses some sort of pseudo-hardware emulation since the Wiiu is supposed to use another IBM PowerPC based chip.
As in my previous post, consoles are and have been "full computers" going as far back as the Dreamcast.
Considering it is APU based, it is likely shared system/VRAM which is sorely needed.
Remember now, current games can use upwards of 2-4GB of VRAM at max graphics on a single 1080p screen. These consoles will all support 3D to some degree so this makes even more sense here as proper 3D requires a lot of VRAM depending on how it's done.
The main problem with the current consoles (360 ESPECIALLY) is the low amount of VRAM to work with. This sort-of future proofs the consoles slightly. Chances are, by the time these are old (give or take 6-8+ years), 8GB of VRAM might be the nrom.
Even then, another HUGE complaint were load times on the PS3 and 360, even after HDD installation. RAM cache for the assets and then reading normal important data off the HDD (like a normal PC does) would be far more efficient and far better overall.
Boy imagine if they had went with that color scheme.
It's odd that nobody remembers that.
NOT TRUE
When games are developed for console, they are mainstream. Because its the same hardware, unlike PC/Mac in which the hardware varies so they must adjust to be able to work on almost all hardware.
However PC/Macs also has other things going in background. So they need much more processing power then a console, which does only 1 thing and purpose.
It is possible to do this on a all in one chip.
It also worth mentioning this is probably a custom A10 it might have a beefier GPU then its PC counterparts an its probably kaveri based and using custom ram like Xdr2 to push the APU faster and if not that it will probably be highspeed DDR4.
Kaveri is supposed to bring GPU memory and CPU memory all into one memory space so highspeed onboard RAM like XDR2 could basically give the PS4 VRAM.
AMD said the Kaveri A10 will be capable of 1TFLOPS and all the games could use HSA making programming for the console very easy.
What i meant is that the graphics wont be as amazing as i once thought they were gonna be.
What were you expecting two 8970?
Consoles typically get a few cool new features we gotta wait for on PC but have low end GPUs.
Also more proof of my custom APU statements.
"Our semi-custom APUs already have a number of confidential high-volume design wins in place" Rory Read.
This is also very good news for AMD they have hardware in all 3 consoles this generation.
This also will mean amazing PC ports if you are running AMD hardware.
I'd expect something like an 8850 or 7850 at least.
And drive the price of the consoles up?
The point of the consoles are cheap efficient gaming machines.
They won't be cheap if they use APUs. The standard cheapo A10 MiniITX or MicroATX build costs around $500-525, and to add XDR2 memory or whatever will push the price way up. Then you have gimmicks like a Blu-ray drive.
etc.
They are custom A10s to start with and Microsoft often contracts foxxcon to make custom motherboards for them.
Microsoft is not a consumer they get things from the source without middlemen driving up the costs.
Obviously.
Not as good as I'd expect on the hardware side though.
You say that fully optimized this thing is going to push better graphics then your PC.
I think an APU would be PLENTY for a console. The graphics will be kept up to par, and the price will be kept within the "console range".
Erm....no, i was just expecting a decent performance boost from the last gen consoles.
Of which they're getting.
The current gen consoles are being designed on similarly high end hardware, in terms of what their price is likely to be, for 2012.
They are still seeing at LEAST a 200-400% improvement, if not more.