Upon hearing about the Better Together Update I was truly excited. It didn't occur to me until today that win 10/PE has no quasi connectivity. Now I understand that to many its more of a convienience than anything, it makes redstone much more straightforward. But to advanced redstoners this is an important feature that can be used to make super fast piston contraptions and often simplify advanced circuits. The more I think about it the more I'm thinking for me this is a deal breaker. I'm going to have to play on old gen or move to the java version if I want to keep it. At the moment my survival world is on my 360, and I don't plan on abandoning it for quite some time, so its not goanna effect me for now. But if old gen was getting the update too I'd decline downloading it for the forseeable future because my entire world would be broken and I'd have a lot of really expensive broken farms and contraptions that would take years to fix, if they could be fixed at all.
I realize for the majority of players this doesn't seem like a big deal, but it will likely effect anyone who moves their current world to the new version. If you have built a contraption from a tutorial then theres about a 50% chance its going to break in the new version.
Oh man, I had no idea. When is the Better Together update anticipated to roll out? There are always work-arounds for broken redstone (the observer block might substitute for many occurrences of broken quasi-connectivity), but removing an entire aspect of redstone mechanics certainly limits our possibilities. 0-tick pulses would be nearly impossible except via differences in update orders for redstone components.
Is the lack of QC in the Win 10 version seen as a bug, or "behavior as expected"?
It is behavior as expected, according to a few bug reports.
I just played around in PE for a bit. I hadn't realized QC is responsible for the piston 1-tick monostable circuit. I'm sure there are other ways to create a 1-tuck pulse, but that circuit is so easy I hadn't bothered trying to find another method. It's also worth mentioning that the Observer block does not generate a 1-tick pulse on PE.
Additionally, there doesn't seem to be a difference in update order for redstone components so that avenue for generating 0-tick pulses is also closed.
I understand that QC is technically a bug present on every platform except Win10 and PE. However, this bug has been around for years and Mojang/4J decided at the outset to not fix it. Why fix it now? Why create additional platforms that lack a major redstone feature (I say "feature" because a bug that is intentionally allowed to persist is no longer a bug)?
Ilmango used observers and pistons to create a zero tick pulse in his chorus fruit farm designs. Its been a while since I seen the video, but as I remember he used the observer to power two pistons in the same tick, one piston would be your 'work' piston and the second would push the observer away in the same tick it powered creating a zero-tick pulse. I'm sure update order has to be considered, and with no way to influence update order with block event delay its gotta be locational, but it might be a workaround for some applications. Other applications, for instance the concrete factory with blast chamber I just constructed, there is literally no way for me to build it without qc. The conveyor systems are all zero-tick and the blast chamber design uses ilmango's idea where blocks are pushed in in stages to clear stuck items from the blast area. It accepts a block every six gameticks. I pondered for hours yesterday how to do it without qc and the only way to make it work would slow it down to 1/4 of its current speed, and cost even more than it already does.
I did more research on 1- and 0-tick pulses in PE. This guy explains 1-tick mechanics pretty well in the video below:
Apparently a 1-tick pulse is possible, so perhaps 0-tick is also possible. Neither of these cause a sticky piston to lose its block though. That behavior is due to game tick differences in piston extension and retraction, with extension taking longer than retraction, thus if the piston is unpowered prior to completing its extension it will retract and leave the block. On PE piston extension and retraction take the same number of game ticks so pistons will never leave their block.
The differences between what should be 0-tick, 1-tick, or longer pulses is difficult to see on my phone as rendering block movement or lighting updates isn't consistent. An investment in the Win10 version might be necessary to consistently observe differences in pulse length.
That really limits the usefulness of zerotick pulses, short pulses in general really, if you cannot loose a block on a sticky piston.
In the video he states that it breaks when you power it with any other method except a player input or a redstone block, thats a pain. Now we gotta add another piston and slow the process down by another three gameticks (the 1.5 tick time he stated it takes to extend). In a clocked process this isn't that big a deal, but for a tree farm where the goal is to detect and harvest a tree as fast as possible this is goanna slow things down, if a tree farm as we know it is even possible.
I haven't had a lot of time to do research on what is out there as far as redstone and win 10/pe go, but it seems to me its goanna be like learning it all over again with half the functionality. The idea of movable chests and droppers etc. is cool, but I'm not trading that for what I see as a 'dumbed down' version of redstone. Java version is looking more and more appealing every day.
Using behaviors that seem like bugs is always a risky move. I love redstone but I never use features like piston translocation or qc just because I figured one day it will be fixed. Any time some one explains either of these features they say it doesn't make sense but it's been that way forever. With all the changes to redstone it just makes me challenges to find out new bug free ways to get it done. I personally think redstone is getting easier and more compact as the updates come along. Having lag free compact hopper clocks is amazing. The observer blocks are providing easier and smaller builds too. I guess I'm one of those people that would rather adapt and learn the new way instead of living in the past though. This should give you inspiration to find a new better way and make your mark on the minecraft community.
Okay. I'm relativly new to red stone. I've built a ton of contraptions and farms on my survival world. Some huge, almost hermitcraft style and some adverage.
I know my way around the stone is what I'm getting at haha. Can someone explain the lingo though? What's QC? Why should I care?
Its alot of things, and kinda hard to explain, Check out Its a 2 part stream with panda4994 and cubhamster. It covers alot of things related to quasi, and much more, such as ways to work around without quasi. Its very slow paced, but once it gets started quite a ways in it contains alot of information.
Using behaviors that seem like bugs is always a risky move. I love redstone but I never use features like piston translocation or qc just because I figured one day it will be fixed. Any time some one explains either of these features they say it doesn't make sense but it's been that way forever. With all the changes to redstone it just makes me challenges to find out new bug free ways to get it done. I personally think redstone is getting easier and more compact as the updates come along. Having lag free compact hopper clocks is amazing. The observer blocks are providing easier and smaller builds too. I guess I'm one of those people that would rather adapt and learn the new way instead of living in the past though. This should give you inspiration to find a new better way and make your mark on the minecraft community.
you don't get it. They said the'd keep it (at least on java version) and it is a consistent bug, almost as if it were first thought to be on the game
Upon hearing about the Better Together Update I was truly excited. It didn't occur to me until today that win 10/PE has no quasi connectivity. Now I understand that to many its more of a convienience than anything, it makes redstone much more straightforward. But to advanced redstoners this is an important feature that can be used to make super fast piston contraptions and often simplify advanced circuits. The more I think about it the more I'm thinking for me this is a deal breaker. I'm going to have to play on old gen or move to the java version if I want to keep it. At the moment my survival world is on my 360, and I don't plan on abandoning it for quite some time, so its not goanna effect me for now. But if old gen was getting the update too I'd decline downloading it for the forseeable future because my entire world would be broken and I'd have a lot of really expensive broken farms and contraptions that would take years to fix, if they could be fixed at all.
I realize for the majority of players this doesn't seem like a big deal, but it will likely effect anyone who moves their current world to the new version. If you have built a contraption from a tutorial then theres about a 50% chance its going to break in the new version.
Surely an advanced redstoner wouldn't need to use bugs like squasi connectivity, they should have the technical knowhow to do redstone legitimately without using exploits.
Most things can be worked around, but the best you can hope for is a contraption that runs at less than half the speed. Zero tick signals cannot be generated without qc and zeroticks, even if you could generate them, won't work the same as they currently do due to the fact that theres no instant piston retraction.
As far as 'any good redstoner should be able to work around this', when was the last time you saw a supertechnical player (think ilmango, z_method_z, gnembonMC) play in win10? Never, in fact ilmango has stated in his videos he's not even willing to attempt it because of the technical obstacles.
Without zerotick signals the maximum speed of any contraptions that use pistons to handle blocks will be just over two blocks per second, while currently the speed limit is 5 blocks per second.
It's not that I cannot work around the changes, I simply do not want to. Not when there is another option available.
That being said, I'm going to mess around with bedrock engine when it becomes available. I'm trying to keep an open mind, and maybe I'll decide that I want to invest thousands of hours on a survival world, or maybe not.
Upon hearing about the Better Together Update I was truly excited. It didn't occur to me until today that win 10/PE has no quasi connectivity. Now I understand that to many its more of a convienience than anything, it makes redstone much more straightforward. But to advanced redstoners this is an important feature that can be used to make super fast piston contraptions and often simplify advanced circuits. The more I think about it the more I'm thinking for me this is a deal breaker. I'm going to have to play on old gen or move to the java version if I want to keep it. At the moment my survival world is on my 360, and I don't plan on abandoning it for quite some time, so its not goanna effect me for now. But if old gen was getting the update too I'd decline downloading it for the forseeable future because my entire world would be broken and I'd have a lot of really expensive broken farms and contraptions that would take years to fix, if they could be fixed at all.
I realize for the majority of players this doesn't seem like a big deal, but it will likely effect anyone who moves their current world to the new version. If you have built a contraption from a tutorial then theres about a 50% chance its going to break in the new version.
Oh man, I had no idea. When is the Better Together update anticipated to roll out? There are always work-arounds for broken redstone (the observer block might substitute for many occurrences of broken quasi-connectivity), but removing an entire aspect of redstone mechanics certainly limits our possibilities. 0-tick pulses would be nearly impossible except via differences in update orders for redstone components.
Is the lack of QC in the Win 10 version seen as a bug, or "behavior as expected"?
If memory serves me right, QC is being phased out over the java version as well, its the main reason why the observer was introduced.
It is behavior as expected, according to a few bug reports.
I just played around in PE for a bit. I hadn't realized QC is responsible for the piston 1-tick monostable circuit. I'm sure there are other ways to create a 1-tuck pulse, but that circuit is so easy I hadn't bothered trying to find another method. It's also worth mentioning that the Observer block does not generate a 1-tick pulse on PE.
Additionally, there doesn't seem to be a difference in update order for redstone components so that avenue for generating 0-tick pulses is also closed.
I understand that QC is technically a bug present on every platform except Win10 and PE. However, this bug has been around for years and Mojang/4J decided at the outset to not fix it. Why fix it now? Why create additional platforms that lack a major redstone feature (I say "feature" because a bug that is intentionally allowed to persist is no longer a bug)?
I found this searching around, its Mojang's explanation of why qc isn't in win 10/pe.
https://mojang.com/2016/08/whats-happening-with-redstone-on-pocket-win-10/
It also mentions that as of august of last year there were no intentions to remove qc from the java version.
Ilmango used observers and pistons to create a zero tick pulse in his chorus fruit farm designs. Its been a while since I seen the video, but as I remember he used the observer to power two pistons in the same tick, one piston would be your 'work' piston and the second would push the observer away in the same tick it powered creating a zero-tick pulse. I'm sure update order has to be considered, and with no way to influence update order with block event delay its gotta be locational, but it might be a workaround for some applications. Other applications, for instance the concrete factory with blast chamber I just constructed, there is literally no way for me to build it without qc. The conveyor systems are all zero-tick and the blast chamber design uses ilmango's idea where blocks are pushed in in stages to clear stuck items from the blast area. It accepts a block every six gameticks. I pondered for hours yesterday how to do it without qc and the only way to make it work would slow it down to 1/4 of its current speed, and cost even more than it already does.
I did more research on 1- and 0-tick pulses in PE. This guy explains 1-tick mechanics pretty well in the video below:
Apparently a 1-tick pulse is possible, so perhaps 0-tick is also possible. Neither of these cause a sticky piston to lose its block though. That behavior is due to game tick differences in piston extension and retraction, with extension taking longer than retraction, thus if the piston is unpowered prior to completing its extension it will retract and leave the block. On PE piston extension and retraction take the same number of game ticks so pistons will never leave their block.
The differences between what should be 0-tick, 1-tick, or longer pulses is difficult to see on my phone as rendering block movement or lighting updates isn't consistent. An investment in the Win10 version might be necessary to consistently observe differences in pulse length.
That really limits the usefulness of zerotick pulses, short pulses in general really, if you cannot loose a block on a sticky piston.
In the video he states that it breaks when you power it with any other method except a player input or a redstone block, thats a pain. Now we gotta add another piston and slow the process down by another three gameticks (the 1.5 tick time he stated it takes to extend). In a clocked process this isn't that big a deal, but for a tree farm where the goal is to detect and harvest a tree as fast as possible this is goanna slow things down, if a tree farm as we know it is even possible.
I haven't had a lot of time to do research on what is out there as far as redstone and win 10/pe go, but it seems to me its goanna be like learning it all over again with half the functionality. The idea of movable chests and droppers etc. is cool, but I'm not trading that for what I see as a 'dumbed down' version of redstone. Java version is looking more and more appealing every day.
Agreed. I'm all for redstone issues and challenges, but taking a step backwards and losing functionality isn't ok.
Using behaviors that seem like bugs is always a risky move. I love redstone but I never use features like piston translocation or qc just because I figured one day it will be fixed. Any time some one explains either of these features they say it doesn't make sense but it's been that way forever. With all the changes to redstone it just makes me challenges to find out new bug free ways to get it done. I personally think redstone is getting easier and more compact as the updates come along. Having lag free compact hopper clocks is amazing. The observer blocks are providing easier and smaller builds too. I guess I'm one of those people that would rather adapt and learn the new way instead of living in the past though. This should give you inspiration to find a new better way and make your mark on the minecraft community.
Okay. I'm relativly new to red stone. I've built a ton of contraptions and farms on my survival world. Some huge, almost hermitcraft style and some adverage.
I know my way around the stone is what I'm getting at haha. Can someone explain the lingo though? What's QC? Why should I care?
Its alot of things, and kinda hard to explain, Check out Its a 2 part stream with panda4994 and cubhamster. It covers alot of things related to quasi, and much more, such as ways to work around without quasi. Its very slow paced, but once it gets started quite a ways in it contains alot of information.
you don't get it. They said the'd keep it (at least on java version) and it is a consistent bug, almost as if it were first thought to be on the game
Surely an advanced redstoner wouldn't need to use bugs like squasi connectivity, they should have the technical knowhow to do redstone legitimately without using exploits.
Most things can be worked around, but the best you can hope for is a contraption that runs at less than half the speed. Zero tick signals cannot be generated without qc and zeroticks, even if you could generate them, won't work the same as they currently do due to the fact that theres no instant piston retraction.
As far as 'any good redstoner should be able to work around this', when was the last time you saw a supertechnical player (think ilmango, z_method_z, gnembonMC) play in win10? Never, in fact ilmango has stated in his videos he's not even willing to attempt it because of the technical obstacles.
Without zerotick signals the maximum speed of any contraptions that use pistons to handle blocks will be just over two blocks per second, while currently the speed limit is 5 blocks per second.
It's not that I cannot work around the changes, I simply do not want to. Not when there is another option available.
That being said, I'm going to mess around with bedrock engine when it becomes available. I'm trying to keep an open mind, and maybe I'll decide that I want to invest thousands of hours on a survival world, or maybe not.