Oh no... I didn't really think about that... but I figure if a TNT explodes within the wall... doing that will release the torrent of lava upon them anyway XD. Also... after hitting the tnt would it not fall down into the pool of water at the bottom of the wall rendering it useless? Even if it is vulnerable to clever block placement, this type of wall forces them not to use TNT cannons from a long range and get up close and personal with the wall. Using lava will reduce the chance that they will want to do this. I'm going to keep both water and lava walling since they're basically the same except for a small difference I'll show in 1 picture.
The Lava Wall has proven to be much superior!
For one, it prevents people from wanting to just travel straight through the lava.
Second, if you try and put it out with Water you'll only add more cobblestone to the wall.
Third, Placing a block to interrupt the stream of lava does not work!
Check out the OP and you'll see what I mean... I think we have a winner!
You're right, if you put it outwards like that and wait a few seconds, then put some going downwards and such... after a lot of blocks and around 20 or so seconds I was able to create a viable opening [though one false move and you fall into an adjacent stream of lava]. Now their only problem is breaking through the stone+gravel+lava interior. This wall buys LOTS more time than a straight stone wall. It's a fantastic progression for only 1-2 days of work.
I've updated the OP with these edits so far:
11/13 - Fixed Water walling, added Lava Walling, Fixed Optimal Castle Positioning, Added False Floors, Added "By Night" and "Prioritizing" sections to Section X. Added "Salvaging" section to Section III, Added Dungeons, Added One Way Protected Doors or Psuedo Doors, Featured Aninimouse Cliff Trap.
About water walls, you can just throw a boat down, jump in it and zip to the top of a 100 block high wall in seconds. Even a single stream of water coming down a wall is enough for a boat to use to climb a wall. Look up water elevators for more information.
Also about gravel, you can just dig one gravel block at your head level and and throw in a torch quickly, it will either despawn the entire row, or hold up the entire row, sometimes it despawns the torch just try again. There are ways to counter this though, but it's not water flowing on the outside cause of the reasons I previously mentioned.
About water walls, you can just throw a boat down, jump in it and zip to the top of a 100 block high wall in seconds. -snip-
I feel like water elevators [along with minecart boosters and throwing down torches to block sand and gravel] are going to be removed by notch since they are basically glitches...
Notch did say he was thinking about inventing a block that works like a minecart booster though, but he hasn't said anything like that about water elevators.
If he does keep them in the game however... that could pose the huge problem that you pointed out... I might have to redesign the water wall so that if you attempt to do that, something very bad happens. I'll begin testing shortly.
Just pulling your leg! These ideas are quite amazing, and usually when I see posts like these, I just reply TOO MUCH TEXT LOLOLOLOLOLLOLOL TLDR, but for some reason, I gave this a chance, and I'm quite happy I did. The ideas of war-waging in Minecraft are mind-blowing (pardon the pun, :tongue.gif:) and quite masterfully detailed. Let me give you a small detailed account of my wins and fails in my war world.
Day 1 - Forced two sheep to mate. Waiting on little sheep-child number one.
Day 2 - Turns out they were both male. EXPERIMENT 1 - FAILED
Day 3 - I have begun laying out a simple mine field.
Day 4 - Never build a mine field in front of your house. EXPERIMENT 2 - FAILED
Day 5 - I have tested a small TNT cannon and blew away 20% of a wall. It seems quite familar though . . .
Apparently, the TNT cannon blew away my replacement home. At least I know it works. EXPERIMENT 3 - FAILED
Day 6 - I have gone into an active volcano and brought home seven buckets of lava. I have begun pouring it over my impenetrable stone wall, to keep away those pesky Skeletons at night.
Day 7 - Success! I have warded away three zombies, a spider, and a creeper. Sadly, the last creeper who walked towards my wall had a surprise seizure and destroyed my wall. EXPERIMENT 3 - SUCCESS
Day 8 - Have begun herding sheep. Unbeknownst to them, they are sitting on a mountain hollowed out, and full of TNT. The trigger and a means of escape are still being built.
Day 9 - Blew them to kingdom come. I feel like Rambo now. :biggrin.gif: EXPERIMENT 4 - SUCCESS
Day 10 - Beginning a complicated pitfall mechanism. Have tested it out on three chickens, had a 75% capture rate, 35% fatality rate. EXPERIMENT 5 - SUCCESS
Day 91 - Finally ready to wage war . . . but still waiting on SMP damage.
This is a bit of a defense tip on a unbreakable ( not really, probably takes a few mins if you set it up right and don't blow the other guy to pieces a few seconds in) wall.
In this case:
= wall enemy is trying to get through (sand/gravel only)
[] =sign
=pressure pad
inside of base
[]
[]
[]
...etc to bottom of the wall
at bottom:
etc.
Tunneler breaks sand/gravel, knocks off sign, lands on pressure pad, triggers tnt blast localized to that area (if the enemy is cannon-less) based on which pressure plate was triggered. Signs bounce off inside walls. On top, you'd end up having a humongous wall of sand/gravel. This works against diggers, and if you really want, you could probably find a way for the pressure plate to trigger a lava/water flow. Oh, and it requires loads of signs/sand/gravel. And time.
Maybe water/lavawalling the contraption would work? I mean, the whole thing would look absolutely terrible, but still :biggrin.gif: it's awesome
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from lnnh2326 »
u could travel the seas building a actual moving boat
Will do! Keep working on your experiments :tongue.gif: Thanks for the recognition
@ Joe
I know how they work, I just feel like a boat filled with water shouldn't float up XD But then again... creepers with no arms climb ladders... and we can light tnt on fire with magical red stones... I might just have to deal with there being boats that can climb up waterfalls... How's the boat docking write-up going?
I'm thinking about starting a war department of the MSF. Would you be interested in being Head of Naval Operations
@ Aninimouse
Would you be interested in being Assisting General Tactician?
Quote from PsycoRax »
This is a bit of a defense tip -snip-
I mean... it's a viable idea if you can execute it... but I don't know how I feel about blowing up my own wall.You'd probably end up doing more damage to your own wall than the enemy could...
Will do! Keep working on your experiments :tongue.gif: Thanks for the recognition
@ Joe
I know how they work, I just feel like a boat filled with water shouldn't float up XD But then again... creepers with no arms climb ladders... and we can light tnt on fire with magical red stones... I might just have to deal with there being boats that can climb up waterfalls... How's the boat docking write-up going?
I'm thinking about starting a war department of the MSF. Would you be interested in being Head of Naval Operations
@ Aninimouse
Would you be interested in being Assisting General Tactician?
I just got an inspiration lol...
SENDING IN BOATS!!!!
I mean, you can send them in minecarts, would it be possible (if totally improbable and stupid) to somehow get a creeper into a boat and send it somewhere by manipulating water currents? I mean, this isn't going to work anywhere outside of the ocean.. but still.. this would be sick :biggrin.gif: auto-creeper panic thing
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from lnnh2326 »
u could travel the seas building a actual moving boat
the only thing the guide dosen't account for is Evacuating troops. There will be times when your in a bad spot or faced with a superior army its the smart move to run. But the guide fails to state the Proper way to run Diveshafts,boats,Lava, you get the point. Knowing when to run and conserve resources will make you the victor
Hmm, have to work on that...
I'm currently doing a study on chain-explosions... it's going well but I can't really imagine what It'd be useful for except maybe sabotaging an enemy base.
Oh, and register on the forums if you haven't :biggrin.gif: [I'm putting you in the special group that allows you to post in "The War Room" thread I just made, even though we'll be mostly talking in the Tactics and Strategy board].
@Spehss Mahreen
Of course I don't mind :biggrin.gif:
The more the merrier.
I had an idea. So say you've got a man on your side who can count quickly, and accurately. You make a makeshift bunker outside the enemies wall. Have the man count the rough amount of blocks from the bunker to the wall. This is value one (n).
Next, build a portal to the nether. Make sure that the enemy can't see it. See where I'm going with this? Move the appropriate amount of steps in the nether and make a new portal, just make sure you head in the right direction. Usually the best amount is roughly (n/8 + 1). The extra one allows the person a near guarantee to be INSIDE the base. Move your soldiers through the gate. Build more gates inside for rapid random entry to the enemies base. Sure the enemy can defend ONE gate to the nether in there base, but how about 4? By building more portals in the proximity it's easier to be random, and gain the upper hand. So what if you spawn UNDER the enemies base? Bonus. Enemy doesn't know what your doing yet because you hid the portal. Best thing to do is make a quick room under your bunker to hide the portal, because then the enemy can't even see the particles. But back to the main part. UNDER the base allows for you to dig up into the base from beneath. If you move around a bit and can figure out the general height from the cave without being seen, then you can even set up a perimeter of TNT and blow out the entire floor of the enemy's base! Sure to cause MASS chaos. It also ruins most sand/gravel traps, and now a large portion has fallen to the ground.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
If you've EVER messed around with the nether you know this just isn't do-able
I very well DO know that it's doable. All it requires is a brain capable of on the fly calculations. I know plenty of people on the forums that could do that.
But in all interest, why isn't it doable?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Say this is the wall;
You could place a block like so
[]
[]
Then place the tnt like so, in the dry area.
[]
Then after that the lava would be the only problem,
which could probably be countered the same way, blocking the lava's path.
Although I'm pretty sure not everyone would instantly think that one up, so it's still a good strategy nonetheless.
Also, I don't believe the water would flow back under the block you place the TNT under.
One other thing, is that wall could be quite... Messy, after an attack, due to the interactions between lava and water.
For one, it prevents people from wanting to just travel straight through the lava.
Second, if you try and put it out with Water you'll only add more cobblestone to the wall.
Third, Placing a block to interrupt the stream of lava does not work!
Check out the OP and you'll see what I mean... I think we have a winner!
You did...
[] []
[] []
[] []
[] []
[] []
A brave individual might be able to slip through before the lava flows over and down if it's done that way.
Either way though, it's a pretty unbeatable wall now.
I've updated the OP with these edits so far:
11/13 - Fixed Water walling, added Lava Walling, Fixed Optimal Castle Positioning, Added False Floors, Added "By Night" and "Prioritizing" sections to Section X. Added "Salvaging" section to Section III, Added Dungeons, Added One Way Protected Doors or Psuedo Doors, Featured Aninimouse Cliff Trap.
Submit it and I'll definitely try to fit it somewhere :smile.gif:
good effort though
What, exactly, does that mean? XD
Also about gravel, you can just dig one gravel block at your head level and and throw in a torch quickly, it will either despawn the entire row, or hold up the entire row, sometimes it despawns the torch just try again. There are ways to counter this though, but it's not water flowing on the outside cause of the reasons I previously mentioned.
I feel like water elevators [along with minecart boosters and throwing down torches to block sand and gravel] are going to be removed by notch since they are basically glitches...
Notch did say he was thinking about inventing a block that works like a minecart booster though, but he hasn't said anything like that about water elevators.
If he does keep them in the game however... that could pose the huge problem that you pointed out... I might have to redesign the water wall so that if you attempt to do that, something very bad happens. I'll begin testing shortly.
TL;DR.
Just pulling your leg! These ideas are quite amazing, and usually when I see posts like these, I just reply TOO MUCH TEXT LOLOLOLOLOLLOLOL TLDR, but for some reason, I gave this a chance, and I'm quite happy I did. The ideas of war-waging in Minecraft are mind-blowing (pardon the pun, :tongue.gif:) and quite masterfully detailed. Let me give you a small detailed account of my wins and fails in my war world.
Day 1 - Forced two sheep to mate. Waiting on little sheep-child number one.
Day 2 - Turns out they were both male. EXPERIMENT 1 - FAILED
Day 3 - I have begun laying out a simple mine field.
Day 4 - Never build a mine field in front of your house. EXPERIMENT 2 - FAILED
Day 5 - I have tested a small TNT cannon and blew away 20% of a wall. It seems quite familar though . . .
Apparently, the TNT cannon blew away my replacement home. At least I know it works. EXPERIMENT 3 - FAILED
Day 6 - I have gone into an active volcano and brought home seven buckets of lava. I have begun pouring it over my impenetrable stone wall, to keep away those pesky Skeletons at night.
Day 7 - Success! I have warded away three zombies, a spider, and a creeper. Sadly, the last creeper who walked towards my wall had a surprise seizure and destroyed my wall. EXPERIMENT 3 - SUCCESS
Day 8 - Have begun herding sheep. Unbeknownst to them, they are sitting on a mountain hollowed out, and full of TNT. The trigger and a means of escape are still being built.
Day 9 - Blew them to kingdom come. I feel like Rambo now. :biggrin.gif: EXPERIMENT 4 - SUCCESS
Day 10 - Beginning a complicated pitfall mechanism. Have tested it out on three chickens, had a 75% capture rate, 35% fatality rate. EXPERIMENT 5 - SUCCESS
Day 91 - Finally ready to wage war . . . but still waiting on SMP damage.
Keep working on this topic, please!
In this case:
= wall enemy is trying to get through (sand/gravel only)
[] =sign
=pressure pad
inside of base
[]
[]
[]
...etc to bottom of the wall
at bottom:
etc.
Tunneler breaks sand/gravel, knocks off sign, lands on pressure pad, triggers tnt blast localized to that area (if the enemy is cannon-less) based on which pressure plate was triggered. Signs bounce off inside walls. On top, you'd end up having a humongous wall of sand/gravel. This works against diggers, and if you really want, you could probably find a way for the pressure plate to trigger a lava/water flow. Oh, and it requires loads of signs/sand/gravel. And time.
Maybe water/lavawalling the contraption would work? I mean, the whole thing would look absolutely terrible, but still :biggrin.gif: it's awesome
Will do! Keep working on your experiments :tongue.gif: Thanks for the recognition
@ Joe
I know how they work, I just feel like a boat filled with water shouldn't float up XD But then again... creepers with no arms climb ladders... and we can light tnt on fire with magical red stones... I might just have to deal with there being boats that can climb up waterfalls... How's the boat docking write-up going?
I'm thinking about starting a war department of the MSF. Would you be interested in being Head of Naval Operations
@ Aninimouse
Would you be interested in being Assisting General Tactician?
I mean... it's a viable idea if you can execute it... but I don't know how I feel about blowing up my own wall.You'd probably end up doing more damage to your own wall than the enemy could...
I just got an inspiration lol...
SENDING IN BOATS!!!!
I mean, you can send them in minecarts, would it be possible (if totally improbable and stupid) to somehow get a creeper into a boat and send it somewhere by manipulating water currents? I mean, this isn't going to work anywhere outside of the ocean.. but still.. this would be sick :biggrin.gif: auto-creeper panic thing
Thanks.
Warriors of Chaos!!!
Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle - So many ways to die, so few times to do so.
Hmm, have to work on that...
I'm currently doing a study on chain-explosions... it's going well but I can't really imagine what It'd be useful for except maybe sabotaging an enemy base.
Oh, and register on the forums if you haven't :biggrin.gif: [I'm putting you in the special group that allows you to post in "The War Room" thread I just made, even though we'll be mostly talking in the Tactics and Strategy board].
@Spehss Mahreen
Of course I don't mind :biggrin.gif:
The more the merrier.
Man, until the practical section came by, I was sure I was reading a real book! Great job!
Super Hostile training is rough, but it trains the body well. Or reaction times, at least.
I had an idea. So say you've got a man on your side who can count quickly, and accurately. You make a makeshift bunker outside the enemies wall. Have the man count the rough amount of blocks from the bunker to the wall. This is value one (n).
Next, build a portal to the nether. Make sure that the enemy can't see it. See where I'm going with this? Move the appropriate amount of steps in the nether and make a new portal, just make sure you head in the right direction. Usually the best amount is roughly (n/8 + 1). The extra one allows the person a near guarantee to be INSIDE the base. Move your soldiers through the gate. Build more gates inside for rapid random entry to the enemies base. Sure the enemy can defend ONE gate to the nether in there base, but how about 4? By building more portals in the proximity it's easier to be random, and gain the upper hand. So what if you spawn UNDER the enemies base? Bonus. Enemy doesn't know what your doing yet because you hid the portal. Best thing to do is make a quick room under your bunker to hide the portal, because then the enemy can't even see the particles. But back to the main part. UNDER the base allows for you to dig up into the base from beneath. If you move around a bit and can figure out the general height from the cave without being seen, then you can even set up a perimeter of TNT and blow out the entire floor of the enemy's base! Sure to cause MASS chaos. It also ruins most sand/gravel traps, and now a large portion has fallen to the ground.
I very well DO know that it's doable. All it requires is a brain capable of on the fly calculations. I know plenty of people on the forums that could do that.
But in all interest, why isn't it doable?