So I want to implement a fast travel system for my SP world, and I'm having a hard time deciding between linked nether portals or nether rail. I kinda have to pick one or the other before implementing them, since they'd both be a lot of work and/or planning and would conflict with each other. Here's the pros and cons as I see them:
Cons:
- Portal travel grid makes it hard / impossible to add additional portal locations
- Overworld portal spacings of 1-2 km would mean you would still want local overworld rail
Nether Rail
Pros:
- Travel is still pretty fast
- Complete freedom in choosing portal locations and routes
- New discoveries can be easily linked up to fast travel with very little hassle, and no disruption to the existing paths
Cons:
- A lot of work - Pigmen mean you basically have to slab all the rail and keep it at a single height, or deal with constant stops
- Slower than linked portals
- More materials required
- Nether rail travel is ugly & boring
Has anyone implemented either system on a large scale? If so, your thoughts about your choice? I'm leaning toward the portal network but I've never implemented one before. I think I understand the concepts but advice would be appreciated.
* I should add that in terms of distance, my current plans aren't anything extremely far - about 5-10k from spawn max, but I wouldn't rule out wanting a really far trip someday and maybe using a portal network to make it feasible.
The problem with the linked nether portals, if you mean what I think you mean, is that it only works in one direction. So say you're at your home area, you go through a portal into the nether. In the nether, you go back through the same portal and instead of being back at home, you're at your remote outpost, yeah? Okay, then, how do you get back home? The portal you just came out of, and any other portal built anywhere nearby, are just going to link back to the nether portal that led you here. Right? Or is there something else I'm missing?
Also, I don't know if you can go more than maybe 2000 blocks or so (I didn't math it out, completely) this way. You go into the nether, and have an "entry point" that matches your exact overworld location. You can be teleported up to 128 blocks away from this point to the nearest portal, which matches a point 1024 blocks away in the overworld. Okay. Then you go back through that portal and your "entry point" in the overworld is 1024 blocks away from where you were. Again, you are teleported to the nearest portal within 128 blocks of your location. So in a single jump, you can reach 1024 + 128 = 1152 blocks from where you started.
Now when you go back into the nether, your entry point is 128 / 8 = 16 blocks further along than the portal was. There could be another portal fifteen blocks away, which would be the closest one and so you'd be taken to that. Then when you go back to the overworld, you're 15 * 8 = 120 blocks away from the last portal. The next one in line is 119 blocks farther, so you're taken to that one. You enter the nether 119 / 8 = 14 blocks (I think it rounds down) from the last portal. Next portal is 13 blocks farther, and you're taken there. Back to the overworld, you enter 13 * 8 = 104 blocks from the portal. Next portal is 103 blocks away, so you're taken there. Back through this portal, you enter the nether 103 / 8 = 12 blocks from the portal, next one is 11 blocks away, you're taken there, etc. This keeps repeating, with the portals getting closer and closer together, until they get so close together that it doesn't work anymore -- you'd enter the nether one block from your portal, and so the next one would have to be zero blocks away, right on top of your entry point. But then when you go back through that one, you're just taken back to the last portal since it's already in the exactly right location.
Hmm. Well you can have bidirectional travel as I imagined, but I was misled as to the distances possible. It seems it's only looking "128 blocks away" from your ideal exit point, regardless of whether your destination is nether or overworld. I thought if the overworld was the exit, the 128 would be multiplied by 8, leading to potential linked portal pairs sending you 2000 overworld blocks for every 2 portals you traversed. So much for that idea. Even if the "128 radius" defines a square prism that goes to the corners, and even if you were going perfectly cornerwise, the most distance you could get out of 2 bidirectional portals traversed is only about 360 blocks. Time-wise I don't think that would be much better (if any) than a nether rail system.
Looks like I'll just have to make a nether rail system then. Bleh.
* As to your question - imagine I had portals at the following coordinates: (all portals at y=63)
Overworld: (0,0), (248,0), (256,0), (500,0)
Nether: (15,0)(n), (16,0)(n); (47,0)(n), (48,0)(n)
Then all the portals would be linked bidirectionally as follows:
(0,0) -- (15,0)(n)
(16,0)(n) -- (248,0)
(256,0) -- (47,0)(n)
(48,0)(n) -- (500,0)
etc.
So you can make a bidirectional portal network, it's just pointless since its limited by the overworld search range being stuck at a low amount (about 128 blocks or however it works on the corners) then effectively divided by 8 for the corresponding distance in the nether. It would probably be a lot faster to just ride a nether rail from (15,0)(n) to (48,0)(n) rather than wait for 2 additional portal activations, thus it's pointless.
(* edited values to fix the math, should be right now)
I don't even build rail systems in the nether, I can't be bothered to ghast-proof the tracks. I suppose I could just tunnel under the surface, but instead I just chug a speed 2 potion and book it.
(For reference, I do believe the search range is a square area that goes all the way to the corners, and from bedrock all the way up to build limit.)
I just check the coords of every overworld location that I want a portal at, divide by 8 to get the Nether coords, then build a portal at both locations BEFORE lighting it. Then all you have to do is build a pathway between your different portals and you're all set to go! It's easier than trying to do the more complex math that comes with trying to see if a portal area is already "claimed" by another portal.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Redstone is a powerful thing. By itself, it does a lot of crazy stuff. When you add lots of it together, it does even more crazier stuff." -Dinnerbone
(For reference, I do believe the search range is a square area that goes all the way to the corners, and from bedrock all the way up to build limit.)
According to Xinhuan's very detailed explanation that is correct. The search routine is actually 257X257X128 (257X257X256 now in overworld). I don't know how many times I've read his post and that part never sunk in. I just assumed that the search routine scope was the same size as the portal creation area. That helps explain a few situations that didn't make sense to me.
Go up to y=115 in the nether and build a 1x2 path with ice floors and trapdoors on the ceiling. Bring some food and speed potions.
Are you saying ice doesn't melt at y>=115 in the nether? Care to explain the orientation of the (open) trapdoors? Also at only 1x2 you wouldn't be able to jump so what's the point of the ice then?
Interesting. I always thought that ice would melt quickly or instantly whenever placed anywhere in the nether. I may implement a nether ice travel system. Why at y=115 though? Just to be sure you are away from any natural lava sources?
Your rapid jumping idea doesn't seem very good though, since the wiki on ice says that your hunger bar goes down at a rate of 1 food / second if you do that. Seems to me the time you spend constantly stopping and eating (and of course the time spent replenishing all the food) would negate the advantage. And I wouldn't want to risk traveling at half a heart while starving. I find normal jumping on ice to be plenty fast, and since the pigmen can't spawn on ice (or other transparent blocks) there's no problem having a higher ceiling for jumping.
Dunno, I made 2 portals almost 500 meters apart, they had the same exit point... I'll keep tooling around until I can get 2 separate nether portals, then I'll put a ghast-proof rail system in to see how well it works.
Dunno, I made 2 portals almost 500 meters apart, they had the same exit point...
Any two overworld portals within 1,024 blocks of each other will always link to the same nether-side portal on initial construction. This is because an overworld distance of 1,024 equates to a nether distance of 128 blocks, which happens to be the size of the area around your entry point that is searched for active portals when you arrive in either world.
To get them each to link up properly with their own nether-side portal, build it yourself in the proper location. Simply note the overworld coordinates of each portal in all three dimensions (x, y, z), then divide the x and z coordinates by 8 to determine their nether equivalent (x/8, y, z/8). Build a portal at those exact nether coordinates and you should have no problems, it should link up with the overworld portal every time, regardless of which "direction" you are traveling or any other portals which may exist nearby.
Any two overworld portals within 1,024 blocks of each other will always link to the same nether-side portal on initial construction. This is because an overworld distance of 1,024 equates to a nether distance of 128 blocks, which happens to be the size of the area around your entry point that is searched for active portals when you arrive in either world.
To get them each to link up properly with their own nether-side portal, build it yourself in the proper location. Simply note the overworld coordinates of each portal in all three dimensions (x, y, z), then divide the x and z coordinates by 8 to determine their nether equivalent (x/8, y, z/8). Build a portal at those exact nether coordinates and you should have no problems, it should link up with the overworld portal every time, regardless of which "direction" you are traveling or any other portals which may exist nearby.
You wouldn't believe how useful your explanation was for me. As i plan to make nether portals soon to connect some new areas that my friend discovered on his server. Now if only we both didn't have to work so much lol.
Any two overworld portals within 1,024 blocks of each other will always link to the same nether-side portal on initial construction. This is because an overworld distance of 1,024 equates to a nether distance of 128 blocks, which happens to be the size of the area around your entry point that is searched for active portals when you arrive in either world.
To get them each to link up properly with their own nether-side portal, build it yourself in the proper location. Simply note the overworld coordinates of each portal in all three dimensions (x, y, z), then divide the x and z coordinates by 8 to determine their nether equivalent (x/8, y, z/8). Build a portal at those exact nether coordinates and you should have no problems, it should link up with the overworld portal every time, regardless of which "direction" you are traveling or any other portals which may exist nearby.
So with careful planning I imagine you can make two netherside portals very close together that take you to two overworld locations 1000 blocks apart. Then returning to the nether by a third portal and exiting by a fourth, you could travel 2000 blocks by going through three successive portals, with a total walking distance of like 30 blocks. But if you build more portals, it will alter the connectivity Is this right?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that method works anymore. Anyways, I would use Nether portals. Fast & safe.
No, we tested it, the ice method works in 1.4.6. Nether portal trickery is hard to set up and easy for someone else to mess up by building a portal nearby.
Your rapid jumping idea doesn't seem very good though, since the wiki on ice says that your hunger bar goes down at a rate of 1 food / second if you do that. Seems to me the time you spend constantly stopping and eating (and of course the time spent replenishing all the food) would negate the advantage. And I wouldn't want to risk traveling at half a heart while starving. I find normal jumping on ice to be plenty fast, and since the pigmen can't spawn on ice (or other transparent blocks) there's no problem having a higher ceiling for jumping.
Your hunger bar doesn't go down nearly that fast. Since you are going 18 blocks/second, you may have to stop to eat once or twice depending on how far you intend to travel. Eat steak for maximum refill and saturation. If you do it right, it's much quicker than rails.
Interesting. I always thought that ice would melt quickly or instantly whenever placed anywhere in the nether. I may implement a nether ice travel system. Why at y=115 though? Just to be sure you are away from any natural lava sources?
Your rapid jumping idea doesn't seem very good though, since the wiki on ice says that your hunger bar goes down at a rate of 1 food / second if you do that. Seems to me the time you spend constantly stopping and eating (and of course the time spent replenishing all the food) would negate the advantage. And I wouldn't want to risk traveling at half a heart while starving. I find normal jumping on ice to be plenty fast, and since the pigmen can't spawn on ice (or other transparent blocks) there's no problem having a higher ceiling for jumping.
Heh. 1 food/second is about 1 food/128 blocks. When people say crazy fast, they mean CRAZY fast.
Go up to y=115 in the nether and build a 1x2 path with ice floors and trapdoors on the ceiling. Bring some food and speed potions.
That's hella neat. I just did some testing in creative, and even without the speed potions, it's still much faster than a minecart. (No I wasn't flying. I was holding down the jump key, not tapping it.) With speed II, I bet it really is "crazy" fast.
Linked Nether Portals
Pros:
- Fastest long-distance travel
- Few materials required
- Pretty cool mechanic
Cons:
- Portal travel grid makes it hard / impossible to add additional portal locations
- Overworld portal spacings of 1-2 km would mean you would still want local overworld rail
Nether Rail
Pros:
- Travel is still pretty fast
- Complete freedom in choosing portal locations and routes
- New discoveries can be easily linked up to fast travel with very little hassle, and no disruption to the existing paths
Cons:
- A lot of work - Pigmen mean you basically have to slab all the rail and keep it at a single height, or deal with constant stops
- Slower than linked portals
- More materials required
- Nether rail travel is ugly & boring
Has anyone implemented either system on a large scale? If so, your thoughts about your choice? I'm leaning toward the portal network but I've never implemented one before. I think I understand the concepts but advice would be appreciated.
* I should add that in terms of distance, my current plans aren't anything extremely far - about 5-10k from spawn max, but I wouldn't rule out wanting a really far trip someday and maybe using a portal network to make it feasible.
Also, I don't know if you can go more than maybe 2000 blocks or so (I didn't math it out, completely) this way. You go into the nether, and have an "entry point" that matches your exact overworld location. You can be teleported up to 128 blocks away from this point to the nearest portal, which matches a point 1024 blocks away in the overworld. Okay. Then you go back through that portal and your "entry point" in the overworld is 1024 blocks away from where you were. Again, you are teleported to the nearest portal within 128 blocks of your location. So in a single jump, you can reach 1024 + 128 = 1152 blocks from where you started.
Now when you go back into the nether, your entry point is 128 / 8 = 16 blocks further along than the portal was. There could be another portal fifteen blocks away, which would be the closest one and so you'd be taken to that. Then when you go back to the overworld, you're 15 * 8 = 120 blocks away from the last portal. The next one in line is 119 blocks farther, so you're taken to that one. You enter the nether 119 / 8 = 14 blocks (I think it rounds down) from the last portal. Next portal is 13 blocks farther, and you're taken there. Back to the overworld, you enter 13 * 8 = 104 blocks from the portal. Next portal is 103 blocks away, so you're taken there. Back through this portal, you enter the nether 103 / 8 = 12 blocks from the portal, next one is 11 blocks away, you're taken there, etc. This keeps repeating, with the portals getting closer and closer together, until they get so close together that it doesn't work anymore -- you'd enter the nether one block from your portal, and so the next one would have to be zero blocks away, right on top of your entry point. But then when you go back through that one, you're just taken back to the last portal since it's already in the exactly right location.
Or am I going about this all wrong?
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
Looks like I'll just have to make a nether rail system then. Bleh.
* As to your question - imagine I had portals at the following coordinates: (all portals at y=63)
Overworld: (0,0), (248,0), (256,0), (500,0)
Nether: (15,0)(n), (16,0)(n); (47,0)(n), (48,0)(n)
Then all the portals would be linked bidirectionally as follows:
(0,0) -- (15,0)(n)
(16,0)(n) -- (248,0)
(256,0) -- (47,0)(n)
(48,0)(n) -- (500,0)
etc.
So you can make a bidirectional portal network, it's just pointless since its limited by the overworld search range being stuck at a low amount (about 128 blocks or however it works on the corners) then effectively divided by 8 for the corresponding distance in the nether. It would probably be a lot faster to just ride a nether rail from (15,0)(n) to (48,0)(n) rather than wait for 2 additional portal activations, thus it's pointless.
(* edited values to fix the math, should be right now)
(For reference, I do believe the search range is a square area that goes all the way to the corners, and from bedrock all the way up to build limit.)
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
According to Xinhuan's very detailed explanation that is correct. The search routine is actually 257X257X128 (257X257X256 now in overworld). I don't know how many times I've read his post and that part never sunk in. I just assumed that the search routine scope was the same size as the portal creation area. That helps explain a few situations that didn't make sense to me.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Are you saying ice doesn't melt at y>=115 in the nether? Care to explain the orientation of the (open) trapdoors? Also at only 1x2 you wouldn't be able to jump so what's the point of the ice then?
Yeah, read up on ice, it only melts when lit up. Oh yeah and mobs like zombie pigmen don't spawn on it.
The trapdoors should actually be closed such that they lie flat against the ceiling.
You can jump, you just don't go anywhere *laughs* so you get the sprint-jump-ice speed boost without any delay from actually jumping.
Your rapid jumping idea doesn't seem very good though, since the wiki on ice says that your hunger bar goes down at a rate of 1 food / second if you do that. Seems to me the time you spend constantly stopping and eating (and of course the time spent replenishing all the food) would negate the advantage. And I wouldn't want to risk traveling at half a heart while starving. I find normal jumping on ice to be plenty fast, and since the pigmen can't spawn on ice (or other transparent blocks) there's no problem having a higher ceiling for jumping.
Any two overworld portals within 1,024 blocks of each other will always link to the same nether-side portal on initial construction. This is because an overworld distance of 1,024 equates to a nether distance of 128 blocks, which happens to be the size of the area around your entry point that is searched for active portals when you arrive in either world.
To get them each to link up properly with their own nether-side portal, build it yourself in the proper location. Simply note the overworld coordinates of each portal in all three dimensions (x, y, z), then divide the x and z coordinates by 8 to determine their nether equivalent (x/8, y, z/8). Build a portal at those exact nether coordinates and you should have no problems, it should link up with the overworld portal every time, regardless of which "direction" you are traveling or any other portals which may exist nearby.
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.
You wouldn't believe how useful your explanation was for me. As i plan to make nether portals soon to connect some new areas that my friend discovered on his server. Now if only we both didn't have to work so much lol.
So with careful planning I imagine you can make two netherside portals very close together that take you to two overworld locations 1000 blocks apart. Then returning to the nether by a third portal and exiting by a fourth, you could travel 2000 blocks by going through three successive portals, with a total walking distance of like 30 blocks. But if you build more portals, it will alter the connectivity Is this right?
My thread: Life as a Nomadic Trapper: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1664475-my-life-as-a-nomadic-trapper
No, we tested it, the ice method works in 1.4.6. Nether portal trickery is hard to set up and easy for someone else to mess up by building a portal nearby.
It doesn't, if it's dark.
Yes, no caverns or ghasts or light sources, just solid netherrack.
Your hunger bar doesn't go down nearly that fast. Since you are going 18 blocks/second, you may have to stop to eat once or twice depending on how far you intend to travel. Eat steak for maximum refill and saturation. If you do it right, it's much quicker than rails.
Heh. 1 food/second is about 1 food/128 blocks. When people say crazy fast, they mean CRAZY fast.
That's hella neat. I just did some testing in creative, and even without the speed potions, it's still much faster than a minecart. (No I wasn't flying. I was holding down the jump key, not tapping it.) With speed II, I bet it really is "crazy" fast.
Village Mechanics: A not-so-brief guide - Update 2017! Now with 1.8 breeding mechanics! Long-overdue trading info, coming soon!
You think magic isn't real? Consider this: for every person, there is a sentence -- a series of words -- which has the power to destroy them.