naw, your idea is actually a great one, impressed by your map, but i would have gave you a if you did the room by hands :wink.gif:
Haha yeah, honestly I've just been on a mission to get a high number of items, it's just my particular Minecraft hobby. As well, the new design will hopefully give someone a good idea to make the better practical mobtrap. I'd do a legit build but I like designing more and always improving what I can, rather than just doing something without hacks that take longer.
Quote from Visaoni »
Quote from Kris18 »
I haven't downloaded it (I might), but from the sounds of it, it's real.
I'm very curious as to how this was designed. From what I collected, it's many lava traps, rather than 1.
Can you please post the designs? Thanks. :biggrin.gif:
The most complicated part is actually the series of canals bringing the items to the collection point. As for the rest, it is extremely simple. There are many rooms, each with multiple canals that are three blocks apart. Each canal is two wide, and leads to a small drop into another canal, and then into a grinder. The grinder is also very simple. It is just a lava blade perpendicular to the canal.
There is a little more to it than that, but as far as I can tell all other features are merely there for ease of building, and not important to the overall function of the trap. Sinstrite may need to correct me on that, however.
Sinstrite, are the rooms only there to make duplication with MCEdit simpler? It seems as if there should be a good way to eliminate the rooms entirely, and therefore gain a little more spawning area, without disrupting the ability to move mobs through quickly.
The reason there's rooms and it's not open is because I watched the mobs when they spawned, and some would walk back and forth for a bit before falling. I did tests without the rooms and usually got around 15.2k - 15.8k always going up and down. I decided if I could make a limit for the area mobs could go then they'd fall faster, so I added the mini rooms in both large compartments. After that is when I started getting 17k+ items so I figured something about it was right. If anyone can improve it please do, I'd love to see a 20k+/hr trap.
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Quote from Scartail »
also here's a sentence so this isn't a one-word post
I made the room in mcedit but it's legit ?
The reason there's rooms and it's not open is because I watched the mobs when they spawned, and some would walk back and forth for a bit before falling. I did tests without the rooms and usually got around 15.2k - 15.8k always going up and down. I decided if I could make a limit for the area mobs could go then they'd fall faster, so I added the mini rooms in both large compartments. After that is when I started getting 17k+ items so I figured something about it was right. If anyone can improve it please do, I'd love to see a 20k+/hr trap.
What if you aligned the walls between rooms with the fall holes and made the walls one thicker? I could see you getting a max of 2 squares to a canal that way(Since mobs don't jump directly down the holes).
For instance:
Where
=Spawning floor
=Walls
=Water Source
=Water Flow
=Wall Sign
It would take up a little more space, but it might be worth it.
That shouldn't take too long, I'll try it out and see what happens, I'm actually going to try different configurations of the walls since everyone's suggesting them to see if anything better works. I like the fact someone mentioned there can be space saved with the lava, the signs make it possible to make the blade 2 long instead of 4 - would make it possible for even more individual traps with chutes extending to the mob spawning floor.
If I decide to redo it, or someone else takes the time to redo it, we would have to make an entirely different design for the spawning floor and the waterflows, as well as the walls (if any are needed).
Here's an image of the mobfloor with the walls removed, the 2 little stone blocks in each canal are above the water source blocks to keep mobs from standing stale in them.
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Quote from Scartail »
also here's a sentence so this isn't a one-word post
I was a skeptic at first but when I downloaded it I was amazed. This mob trap looks totally doable. From the savefile it looks a bit unclear for me so I will wait eagerly till you release a tut.
Thank you for posting this just before I started my mob trap. You just saved me a lot of regret haha. Now to go back and rethink the entire design before I start.
Just thought I should pop in again to mention that if you have two rows of source blocks instead of just one, there will be no dead space. for example,
Now I'm off to see if I can get a higher spider kill rate using this design.
I actually have an in-progress mob trap in one of my worlds, and I'm trying to figure out if/how some of the principles from your trap can be applied to mine. I started with a similar idea of using horizontal space, and I'm working on getting the trap out to 144x144. Instead of going in one side and walking the trap, I've set up a boat elevator (sw rule kind) to drop me directly into the collection point. This means the items are coming in from all four sides to a 2x2 hole before dropping on my head.
Being completely underground, and legit, I'm trying to think of another option besides digging out a second layer for grinders/item conveyors. It wouldn't be too hard to use your room setup (or a variant of it) for the entire floor of the trap, and then have them drop onto a second floor full of grinder and conveyors, but that adds significantly to the number of blocks I need to remove. Any ideas?
I have been planing a large grinder that would operate in all four directions and have been wondering if was better to bring mobs all together and kill them close to the collector which could add entertainment by encasing the blade in glass so you could watch while you collected , or killing them close to the spawn rooms and just bringing the items over - this was timed well for swaying that decision.
Is it normal that I get this incredible lag the moment I even get into the vicinity of the mob trap? I use RamDisk, Game Booster, Peaceful difficulty, Tiny and all sound muted, ALL AT THE SAME TIME, and I could still only squeeze 2 bloody fps when using the mob trap. Lag doesn't worsen when I switch to Normal, but it's not getting better either.
Is it normal that I get this incredible lag the moment I even get into the vicinity of the mob trap? I use RamDisk, Game Booster, Peaceful difficulty, Tiny and all sound muted, ALL AT THE SAME TIME, and I could still only squeeze 2 bloody fps when using the mob trap. Lag doesn't worsen when I switch to Normal, but it's not getting better either.
Try setting it to peaceful and just sit afk for 5 or so minutes, give all the items that could be anywhere in the waterflows to go away. Most likely my cause of lag was when there were items being produced that I wouldn't pick up, that's why the lava pit is there, so you can destroy them while you aren't farming them.
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Quote from Scartail »
also here's a sentence so this isn't a one-word post
I took a look at the map and in comparison to another mob grinder that was HUGE this one is quite compact but you only have 1 level of rooms, do you think adding another floor or maybe 10? If you stretched it out over 144 length of a square that you would break that 20k?
I ask because I wanted an awesome grinder and came across this after I started clearing a 144x144 chunk and wanted to take this one and fit it into that space with possible layers of floors stacked on top of the one floor in each for more return.
What do you think? Doable or something that I might be missing because it seems like the next choice if you wanted to break 20k.
Well the chunk 0 exploit is gone so as you see a lot of towers aren't superior to floors anymore since all chunks are equal, as far as I know of. With the design as far as I calculated, (if right), it's just big enough of a single floor to hit the 200 mob cap. With a single floor, they die as fast as possible, but with another floor added, it just takes and splits the mobs up, 100 would be on floor #1 and 100 would be on floor #2 - and if you just copied another floor directly above the first, the time mobs have to fall from the 2nd to 1st will slowly add up and increase the time it takes for a mob to die. Remember you want mobs to spawn and hit the lava grinder as fast as possible, so a second floor just makes the distance even farther. I tried 2 floors, 5 and 10, and the more floors I had the less items an hour I was getting because the amount of space a mob had to roam kept increasing.
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Quote from Scartail »
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I shortened the traps a bit with mcedit, then stacked them vertically, but it only made a small difference (I am up to about 20000/h. I will upload the save maybe if people want it, but I might as well just describe it - I shrunk the fall over the spawning platform (the one into the grinder) by 3 blocks, to allow for more vertical space. I copied the platforms, grinders, and item canals and duplicated them upwards to the map ceiling. The item canals all dump into the central canal, the items just drop. I also added lightstone atop each spawner (on top of the existing roof) to prevent mobs from spawning on top of them at night.
I may try to design one that spreads out a bit more horizontally. I will probably use the existing design and simply duplicate everything in a 2x2 grid. I feel, however, that the design will not be more efficient unless we can manage to kill the mobs even faster.
I've been running simulations of the spawning algorithm lately and believe that towers vs. flat traps is a matter of preference; what seems to matter most is total spawning surface area. By the way, the hostile mob cap isn't 200 anymore. It's 79 in SP, though since multiple mobs can spawn at a time usually the in-game count will be in the low to mid 80s. You're mainly relying on despawning & killing to keep more mobs spawning.
If you're building, as opposed to digging, towers have an advantage because the ceiling of one level is the floor of the next, which saves material and time. 100 blocks of flat surface requires 200 blocks (100 floor, 100 ceiling). 10 levels of 10 blocks each (just using small round numbers here) requires 110 blocks (100 floor, 10 ceiling). This only applies if you're building efficiently, not doing something like building 2 whole layers of floor to put in a canal. Also, as long as your floors are small it doesn't take that long for the mobs to fall, and falling damage will kill some of them quickly.
If you're digging instead of building, a flat trap might be better because you could dig the whole thing around elevation 12-15 and get a bunch of resources.
I'd love to have the savefile if you're at 20k, I haven't played with it too much since I finished although I've wanted to. I needed to take a break after working on it so long. 79? That's sad to know, I had no clue.
I'm thinking of making a design soon based on all of the awesome feedback and improvement you guys have made and implying it on a new world 100% legit where I record it. I'm trying to make a limit for myself so it can be honestly defined as practical, such as "You're able to build this mob trap in 10 minecraft days" or "With 3 solid hours of playtime, following this guide you can have a legit build as well" - the reason being, is because people are starting new worlds all the time, and the trend of playing legit is slowly rising. So to have a very very easy trap to build within a short amount of time after starting a new world which actually gives a good amount would become highly used.
Even if you don't start a new world, but just want to make a home or base somewhere away from where you currently reside, time and materials can work with & against you.
The one thing that comes with this though, is how to easily get some lava for just starting fresh. Some people are lucky to have lava pools near when starting new worlds, but not all. If there's no answer to that then you would think a cactus or drowning trap. I'd prefer lava, but it's hard to say what the end result will be.
If anyone would be interested in helping me out on this or has a limit I should follow, please say so, this is my next little project - (this stuff counts for one of my college classes too, aren't I lucky?)
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Quote from Scartail »
also here's a sentence so this isn't a one-word post
Lighting caves/the surface is also a really important part of the success of one of these traps. On this map the entire area around the trap is deleted & lit using mcedit. Make sure to think about legit strategy for filling/lighting.
E.g. I just took a fairly small dual-tower trap that was performing <1k/hr and used mcedit to fill in the ground and replace the surface with glowstone, and suddenly it's a 3 - 3.5k trap. Doing that legit would take some really time-consuming spelunking.
Quote from Sinstrite »
The one thing that comes with this though, is how to easily get some lava for just starting fresh. Some people are lucky to have lava pools near when starting new worlds, but not all. If there's no answer to that then you would think a cactus or drowning trap.
Lava is far more common than it used to be and appears on all levels up to and including the surface. One of the first things I do in a new game is mine deep, and I almost always find lava fairly soon, often before reaching bottom. I think it's easier to consistently find than cactus, since you might not have a desert biome nearby.
I've been running simulations of the spawning algorithm lately and believe that towers vs. flat traps is a matter of preference; what seems to matter most is total spawning surface area. By the way, the hostile mob cap isn't 200 anymore. It's 79 in SP, though since multiple mobs can spawn at a time usually the in-game count will be in the low to mid 80s. You're mainly relying on despawning & killing to keep more mobs spawning.
I'm not sure your simulations agree with the actual results from this trap. For its size, this trap has a surprisingly low amount of spawn area. In the past the focus has been on finding ways to maximize spawning area and reducing the amount of canals as much as possible (within reason, of course). The focus of this trap is minimizing the amount of time from spawn to death. However if you compare this to some of the giant mob towers people have played around with recently this trap seems to outperform them significantly.
Haha yeah, honestly I've just been on a mission to get a high number of items, it's just my particular Minecraft hobby. As well, the new design will hopefully give someone a good idea to make the better practical mobtrap. I'd do a legit build but I like designing more and always improving what I can, rather than just doing something without hacks that take longer.
The reason there's rooms and it's not open is because I watched the mobs when they spawned, and some would walk back and forth for a bit before falling. I did tests without the rooms and usually got around 15.2k - 15.8k always going up and down. I decided if I could make a limit for the area mobs could go then they'd fall faster, so I added the mini rooms in both large compartments. After that is when I started getting 17k+ items so I figured something about it was right. If anyone can improve it please do, I'd love to see a 20k+/hr trap.
What if you aligned the walls between rooms with the fall holes and made the walls one thicker? I could see you getting a max of 2 squares to a canal that way(Since mobs don't jump directly down the holes).
For instance:
Where
=Spawning floor
=Walls
=Water Source
=Water Flow
=Wall Sign
It would take up a little more space, but it might be worth it.
Like anime? Try Visual Novels.
If I decide to redo it, or someone else takes the time to redo it, we would have to make an entirely different design for the spawning floor and the waterflows, as well as the walls (if any are needed).
Here's an image of the mobfloor with the walls removed, the 2 little stone blocks in each canal are above the water source blocks to keep mobs from standing stale in them.
Amazing work btw
Now I'm off to see if I can get a higher spider kill rate using this design.
Like anime? Try Visual Novels.
Being completely underground, and legit, I'm trying to think of another option besides digging out a second layer for grinders/item conveyors. It wouldn't be too hard to use your room setup (or a variant of it) for the entire floor of the trap, and then have them drop onto a second floor full of grinder and conveyors, but that adds significantly to the number of blocks I need to remove. Any ideas?
I knew I was onto something with the whole kill everywhere theory...
[FAQ] Extremely Common Problems
[OFFICIAL] Dragon Cave Thread
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Try setting it to peaceful and just sit afk for 5 or so minutes, give all the items that could be anywhere in the waterflows to go away. Most likely my cause of lag was when there were items being produced that I wouldn't pick up, that's why the lava pit is there, so you can destroy them while you aren't farming them.
I took a look at the map and in comparison to another mob grinder that was HUGE this one is quite compact but you only have 1 level of rooms, do you think adding another floor or maybe 10? If you stretched it out over 144 length of a square that you would break that 20k?
I ask because I wanted an awesome grinder and came across this after I started clearing a 144x144 chunk and wanted to take this one and fit it into that space with possible layers of floors stacked on top of the one floor in each for more return.
What do you think? Doable or something that I might be missing because it seems like the next choice if you wanted to break 20k.
I may try to design one that spreads out a bit more horizontally. I will probably use the existing design and simply duplicate everything in a 2x2 grid. I feel, however, that the design will not be more efficient unless we can manage to kill the mobs even faster.
[FAQ] Extremely Common Problems
[OFFICIAL] Dragon Cave Thread
If you're building, as opposed to digging, towers have an advantage because the ceiling of one level is the floor of the next, which saves material and time. 100 blocks of flat surface requires 200 blocks (100 floor, 100 ceiling). 10 levels of 10 blocks each (just using small round numbers here) requires 110 blocks (100 floor, 10 ceiling). This only applies if you're building efficiently, not doing something like building 2 whole layers of floor to put in a canal. Also, as long as your floors are small it doesn't take that long for the mobs to fall, and falling damage will kill some of them quickly.
If you're digging instead of building, a flat trap might be better because you could dig the whole thing around elevation 12-15 and get a bunch of resources.
I'm thinking of making a design soon based on all of the awesome feedback and improvement you guys have made and implying it on a new world 100% legit where I record it. I'm trying to make a limit for myself so it can be honestly defined as practical, such as "You're able to build this mob trap in 10 minecraft days" or "With 3 solid hours of playtime, following this guide you can have a legit build as well" - the reason being, is because people are starting new worlds all the time, and the trend of playing legit is slowly rising. So to have a very very easy trap to build within a short amount of time after starting a new world which actually gives a good amount would become highly used.
Even if you don't start a new world, but just want to make a home or base somewhere away from where you currently reside, time and materials can work with & against you.
The one thing that comes with this though, is how to easily get some lava for just starting fresh. Some people are lucky to have lava pools near when starting new worlds, but not all. If there's no answer to that then you would think a cactus or drowning trap. I'd prefer lava, but it's hard to say what the end result will be.
If anyone would be interested in helping me out on this or has a limit I should follow, please say so, this is my next little project - (this stuff counts for one of my college classes too, aren't I lucky?)
E.g. I just took a fairly small dual-tower trap that was performing <1k/hr and used mcedit to fill in the ground and replace the surface with glowstone, and suddenly it's a 3 - 3.5k trap. Doing that legit would take some really time-consuming spelunking.
Lava is far more common than it used to be and appears on all levels up to and including the surface. One of the first things I do in a new game is mine deep, and I almost always find lava fairly soon, often before reaching bottom. I think it's easier to consistently find than cactus, since you might not have a desert biome nearby.
I'm not sure your simulations agree with the actual results from this trap. For its size, this trap has a surprisingly low amount of spawn area. In the past the focus has been on finding ways to maximize spawning area and reducing the amount of canals as much as possible (within reason, of course). The focus of this trap is minimizing the amount of time from spawn to death. However if you compare this to some of the giant mob towers people have played around with recently this trap seems to outperform them significantly.