Personally, I hate the swamp borders(1.0.0)and the bare mountains. I also liked less caves because that made it more challenging. Now you just have to wander around in a cave and you will eventually find diamond.
Actually, you could do that back then as well. This has not changed.
I am WAY too impatient for strip-mining most of the time, so I've *always* gotten my diamonds out of caves. I generally have plenty. This fact hasnt changed since I started playing the game all that time ago.
Frankly, the caves and such are BETTER now. The addition of the abandoned mines was a very welcome thing, I thought. It isnt JUST the same old grey tunnels everywhere like it used to be. Same with ravines; a very different type of underground terrain. When these three get put together randomly by the generator... it can get very interesting.
Basically, we play older versions for the same reason people still play ASCII dungeon crawlers. Complexity is cool, but simplicity is quick and fun.
Actually, that's usually NOT the reason why those games are in ASCII. Go and actually play one of the "major" Roguelikes. The variants of Hack, Crawl, and similar ones. These games are about as far from "simple" as you can get. Or something like Dwarf Fortress, which is also rendered in ASCII, and is the absolute peak of complexity. The reason these games are rendered in ASCII is twofold. 1: They're MUCH easier to make this way. Much, much, much easier. Alot of programmers... such as myself... are NOT artists. And trying to come up with art assets for a game is a monstrous pain in the ass. ASCII keeps it less aggravating. But more important is number 2: ASCII graphics in these games allows for a MASSIVE amount of information on the screen all at the same time. Dwarf Fortress is the ultimate example of this. There's an absolutely stupid amount of "things" on screen all at once, and yet you never lose track of WHAT they are. You can often see a massive section of your fort all onscreen at once. Wheras, you go and try to render that graphically... and you'd be lucky to fit a couple of rooms onscreen at once. Even the "graphical view" programs for DF simply cannot show anywhere near the amount of info all at once that the game itself can. This concept carries over into any Roguelike or ASCII game.
In all honesty, for those that prefer simplicity, the "ASCII dungeon crawlers" are probably NOT the answer. Except for some of the REALLY small ones.
Besides, the "simplicity" of Minecraft.... hasnt gone away. It just perplexes me that people think it has. Go back to an earlier version, and you are LITERALLY doing one thing, and ONLY one thing: Removing features. ....that's it. JUST removing things. It doesnt add back in anything that was taken out, because.... nothing's ever BEEN taken out. However you used to approach the game back in Alpha? ...just approach it that way now! It's really not rocket science. Potions got added, for example... that dont mean you HAVE to use them. The game never forces stuff like that on you. The terrain generation is the ONLY thing that really "changed" instead of being added to, and really, it's better now than it was back then. Back then, EVERY area, and I mean *EVERY* area, looked the same. A jumbled, bright green mess of screwball hills and oddly placed trees. It could be kinda cool, until you realized... absolutely everywhere you go looks just like that. It got old, fast.
Aaaaaanyway, I agree with the OP. I dont see why some people want to revert. I mean, to each their own, but still. It's worth keeping in mind though, that they do not represent the players as a whole... I've found that ALOT of people prefer the game as it is now than as it was back then. The difference is that the ones that complain about it are FAR more vocal. The ones that are pleased with it... Well, it seems alot of them just avoid the forums. That's no surprise though, this is how things are on many gaming forums. The players that dont like something or other or are angry about something or have some complaint are WAY more vocal than those that are fine with it all. Worth keeping in mind.
One thought occurs to me though: Why not just add a "retro" biome to the game? You could then have EVERY type of generation all at once. Surely this wouldnt be too hard to mod into the game or something. I think it'd be pretty cool, too, without taking away from the feel of the game.
No hunger bar(I know this was Beta 1.7 and before) and better terrain generation.
ABSOLUTELY! +1
I miss my sand and gravel beaches, I miss not having to have a ****-ton of food when I travel, I miss my easy-to-build hills, and I sure-as-hell miss those rainless days!
ALSO: The current "beaches" look comlpetely awful.
One thought occurs to me though: Why not just add a "retro" biome to the game? Surely this wouldnt be too hard to mod into the game or something. I think it'd be pretty cool, too, without taking away from the feel of the game.
I agree, the old versions of minecraft really sucked. I remember playing alpha and being so bored after a few months I stopped playing the game for a long time. I can see that some people want to go back because they were only able to play during the beta phase and want to see what it was like before but truthfully I think that now the game actually gives you something fun to do instead of just getting diamonds.
Have you ever had that HUGE nostalgic feeling while watching a Minecraft video or something that reminded you of a earlier version of Minecraft? That is what people mean when they want to go back to the version they started at and play like they were new to the game again. I remember my first time playing Minecraft... That was amazing.
Yeah the hunger bar is annoying, I agree. But the terrain generation? That was not better at all. There was NOTHING to explore back then.
You weren't even here in alpha, you said so yourself - so don't pretend to know what earlier versions were like. Minecraft hasn't always gone forwards.
I HATE current Minecraft. HATE IT. I hate how there's an end goal to Minecraft (The End), I hate The End in general,I hate the damned hunger bar, I hate Enchanting, I hate how resources are so very easy to find in comparision to mid-alpha, I hate endermen, I hate potions (Minecraft used to not be about magic), and I hate the new terrain generation because the hills are WAY to drastic.
I miss when a landmark or a big mountain or something was SUPER COOL. Like, I remember in alpha where trees were sparce and most terrain was flat, I found a mountain. A big one. I practically crapped myself! I was so excited! I went in and the cave network was HUGE! This was in contrast to most other caves that were small and measly. I made it my goal to explore this epic cave. Hell, I even named parts of it! It was fantastic.
Nowadays, these epic cave systems and ginormous mountains are way way WAY to common. Every turn I see something "epic", and when you see it all the time you take it for granted. It's just not exciting anymore. Not only is dramatic terrain too common, but so is materials. I remember working really damned hard to get iron. I also remember when finding diamond and gold was a HUGE deal. Gold wasn't exciting because it was useful, it was exciting because it was rare. I remember building a throne out of gold blocks and being PROUD. I freaking made that throne out of nothing but solid GOLD. AWESOME. And diamond, ohhhhhh diamond; when I first found diamond, the world opened before my eyes. No longer would I scrounge for iron, no, I was the master of my realm with my mighty diamond pickaxe! Nowadays, these materials are extremely common, and the excitement of finding diamond has been replaced with the "excitement" of enchantment. Enchanting isn't exciting, it's boring! Walking outside at night and pounding away at mobs isn't nearly as fun as creating underground tunnel networks. Which brings me to my next point:
Caves. Holy fudging gawd, caves. SO many of them. Dig down and you're guaranteed to hit one, it's disgusting. Caves used to be much less common, and a LOT smaller. Finding a large cave network was a big deal, and something to be commended. It was glorious. Even better was finding lava, which was also fairly sparce.
I also miss how caves were freaking SCARY. It was TERRIFYING to explore caves, because resources were so very precious.
All in all, the experience had in Alpha was far superior to that of current Minecraft.
I didn't read any of the replies so this may have already been stated, but for me and (I imagine) many others it comes down to one fairly simple concept:
"Limitation breads creativity."
For example, if chandeliers were added that might be pretty cool but I would not have needed to design one with glowstone; if draw-bridges were added I wouldn't have needed to design one with crazy redstone contraptions; if pre-assembled traps were added we might not bother to have fun inventing our own; and, on a more extreme level, if novelty sized LCD clocks and calculators had been added as craftable items some of the most famous creations in the game would likely have never happened.
Part of the appeal of Minecraft is using your imagination to creatively display your dreams and memories; it's a rational concern that if too much specific content were to be added to the game the potential for this could diminish.
Minecraft is a game fueled by creativity and many of it's players appreciate that; while one cannot expect the game's development (and the developers' own creativity) to be stifled for the sake of preserving a limited environment, I think it is fair to request that there be strong discernment when moving forward. Although I can sympathize with your position, I don't think it unreasonable for people to be cautious and thereby upset by new additions to the game that potentially damage the practicality of older more creative methods and may eventually remove said methods entirely from the metagame. While I don't believe this is enough of a reason to halt or hinder the development of the game, I do think it's enough of a reason to play older versions of game, if you so choose to.
Personally, I'll still be playing Classic from time to time and I'll probably also keep an older version of Survival around so I can visit the Farlands.
EDIT: Also, to be clear, there are many things that could be added that would in no way damage the creative aspect of the game: the first thing that came to mind for me was portals. Presently, Survival has portals that travel a player to an alternate dimension and I once heard talk of portals that might travel a player to an entirely different server, but what about portals that can travel a player from one side of their base to the other? Or to a friend's base? When Classic mode was current it had many custom mods that allowed for the creations of portals of this kind and, from my own experience, they led to a lot of really creative designs.
I'm very much looking forward to all the new things that will be added to Minecraft but at the same time I'll be maintaining my readiness to yell angrily if something added threatens to cause a recession of creativity in the metagame.
Basically, we play older versions for the same reason people still play ASCII dungeon crawlers. Complexity is cool, but simplicity is quick and fun.
:biggrin.gif:
Actually, you could do that back then as well. This has not changed.
I am WAY too impatient for strip-mining most of the time, so I've *always* gotten my diamonds out of caves. I generally have plenty. This fact hasnt changed since I started playing the game all that time ago.
Frankly, the caves and such are BETTER now. The addition of the abandoned mines was a very welcome thing, I thought. It isnt JUST the same old grey tunnels everywhere like it used to be. Same with ravines; a very different type of underground terrain. When these three get put together randomly by the generator... it can get very interesting.
Actually, that's usually NOT the reason why those games are in ASCII. Go and actually play one of the "major" Roguelikes. The variants of Hack, Crawl, and similar ones. These games are about as far from "simple" as you can get. Or something like Dwarf Fortress, which is also rendered in ASCII, and is the absolute peak of complexity. The reason these games are rendered in ASCII is twofold. 1: They're MUCH easier to make this way. Much, much, much easier. Alot of programmers... such as myself... are NOT artists. And trying to come up with art assets for a game is a monstrous pain in the ass. ASCII keeps it less aggravating. But more important is number 2: ASCII graphics in these games allows for a MASSIVE amount of information on the screen all at the same time. Dwarf Fortress is the ultimate example of this. There's an absolutely stupid amount of "things" on screen all at once, and yet you never lose track of WHAT they are. You can often see a massive section of your fort all onscreen at once. Wheras, you go and try to render that graphically... and you'd be lucky to fit a couple of rooms onscreen at once. Even the "graphical view" programs for DF simply cannot show anywhere near the amount of info all at once that the game itself can. This concept carries over into any Roguelike or ASCII game.
In all honesty, for those that prefer simplicity, the "ASCII dungeon crawlers" are probably NOT the answer. Except for some of the REALLY small ones.
Besides, the "simplicity" of Minecraft.... hasnt gone away. It just perplexes me that people think it has. Go back to an earlier version, and you are LITERALLY doing one thing, and ONLY one thing: Removing features. ....that's it. JUST removing things. It doesnt add back in anything that was taken out, because.... nothing's ever BEEN taken out. However you used to approach the game back in Alpha? ...just approach it that way now! It's really not rocket science. Potions got added, for example... that dont mean you HAVE to use them. The game never forces stuff like that on you. The terrain generation is the ONLY thing that really "changed" instead of being added to, and really, it's better now than it was back then. Back then, EVERY area, and I mean *EVERY* area, looked the same. A jumbled, bright green mess of screwball hills and oddly placed trees. It could be kinda cool, until you realized... absolutely everywhere you go looks just like that. It got old, fast.
Aaaaaanyway, I agree with the OP. I dont see why some people want to revert. I mean, to each their own, but still. It's worth keeping in mind though, that they do not represent the players as a whole... I've found that ALOT of people prefer the game as it is now than as it was back then. The difference is that the ones that complain about it are FAR more vocal. The ones that are pleased with it... Well, it seems alot of them just avoid the forums. That's no surprise though, this is how things are on many gaming forums. The players that dont like something or other or are angry about something or have some complaint are WAY more vocal than those that are fine with it all. Worth keeping in mind.
One thought occurs to me though: Why not just add a "retro" biome to the game? You could then have EVERY type of generation all at once. Surely this wouldnt be too hard to mod into the game or something. I think it'd be pretty cool, too, without taking away from the feel of the game.
ABSOLUTELY! +1
I miss my sand and gravel beaches, I miss not having to have a ****-ton of food when I travel, I miss my easy-to-build hills, and I sure-as-hell miss those rainless days!
ALSO: The current "beaches" look comlpetely awful.
*posts post*
*looks above post*
****ING BRILLIANT. ABSOLUTELY ****ING BRILLIANT.
(+1)
I was the second person to use the avatar I have. The rest took it from me. The first I asked, he said yes.
I know what I'm doing. I plan ahead, or get tired and screw up everything.
Or Maybe People just like the game better when it was more simple.
Team fortress 2: I make noobs my bitches.
Btw, I ****ing love you for this idea.
-Gravel Beaches
-Terrain generation (was somewhat buggy before but had the appeal of being much more randomized)
-Gravel Beaches
You weren't even here in alpha, you said so yourself - so don't pretend to know what earlier versions were like. Minecraft hasn't always gone forwards.
I HATE current Minecraft. HATE IT. I hate how there's an end goal to Minecraft (The End), I hate The End in general,I hate the damned hunger bar, I hate Enchanting, I hate how resources are so very easy to find in comparision to mid-alpha, I hate endermen, I hate potions (Minecraft used to not be about magic), and I hate the new terrain generation because the hills are WAY to drastic.
I miss when a landmark or a big mountain or something was SUPER COOL. Like, I remember in alpha where trees were sparce and most terrain was flat, I found a mountain. A big one. I practically crapped myself! I was so excited! I went in and the cave network was HUGE! This was in contrast to most other caves that were small and measly. I made it my goal to explore this epic cave. Hell, I even named parts of it! It was fantastic.
Nowadays, these epic cave systems and ginormous mountains are way way WAY to common. Every turn I see something "epic", and when you see it all the time you take it for granted. It's just not exciting anymore. Not only is dramatic terrain too common, but so is materials. I remember working really damned hard to get iron. I also remember when finding diamond and gold was a HUGE deal. Gold wasn't exciting because it was useful, it was exciting because it was rare. I remember building a throne out of gold blocks and being PROUD. I freaking made that throne out of nothing but solid GOLD. AWESOME. And diamond, ohhhhhh diamond; when I first found diamond, the world opened before my eyes. No longer would I scrounge for iron, no, I was the master of my realm with my mighty diamond pickaxe! Nowadays, these materials are extremely common, and the excitement of finding diamond has been replaced with the "excitement" of enchantment. Enchanting isn't exciting, it's boring! Walking outside at night and pounding away at mobs isn't nearly as fun as creating underground tunnel networks. Which brings me to my next point:
Caves. Holy fudging gawd, caves. SO many of them. Dig down and you're guaranteed to hit one, it's disgusting. Caves used to be much less common, and a LOT smaller. Finding a large cave network was a big deal, and something to be commended. It was glorious. Even better was finding lava, which was also fairly sparce.
I also miss how caves were freaking SCARY. It was TERRIFYING to explore caves, because resources were so very precious.
All in all, the experience had in Alpha was far superior to that of current Minecraft.
Good night.
"Limitation breads creativity."
For example, if chandeliers were added that might be pretty cool but I would not have needed to design one with glowstone; if draw-bridges were added I wouldn't have needed to design one with crazy redstone contraptions; if pre-assembled traps were added we might not bother to have fun inventing our own; and, on a more extreme level, if novelty sized LCD clocks and calculators had been added as craftable items some of the most famous creations in the game would likely have never happened.
Part of the appeal of Minecraft is using your imagination to creatively display your dreams and memories; it's a rational concern that if too much specific content were to be added to the game the potential for this could diminish.
Minecraft is a game fueled by creativity and many of it's players appreciate that; while one cannot expect the game's development (and the developers' own creativity) to be stifled for the sake of preserving a limited environment, I think it is fair to request that there be strong discernment when moving forward. Although I can sympathize with your position, I don't think it unreasonable for people to be cautious and thereby upset by new additions to the game that potentially damage the practicality of older more creative methods and may eventually remove said methods entirely from the metagame. While I don't believe this is enough of a reason to halt or hinder the development of the game, I do think it's enough of a reason to play older versions of game, if you so choose to.
Personally, I'll still be playing Classic from time to time and I'll probably also keep an older version of Survival around so I can visit the Farlands.
EDIT: Also, to be clear, there are many things that could be added that would in no way damage the creative aspect of the game: the first thing that came to mind for me was portals. Presently, Survival has portals that travel a player to an alternate dimension and I once heard talk of portals that might travel a player to an entirely different server, but what about portals that can travel a player from one side of their base to the other? Or to a friend's base? When Classic mode was current it had many custom mods that allowed for the creations of portals of this kind and, from my own experience, they led to a lot of really creative designs.
I'm very much looking forward to all the new things that will be added to Minecraft but at the same time I'll be maintaining my readiness to yell angrily if something added threatens to cause a recession of creativity in the metagame.