Just floored by this, Notch is so closed-minded as to dismiss a technology used in just about every 3D game, which improves performance and greatly benefits visuals by virtually eliminating texture swirls at distances.
This is what mipmapping does; observe the bricks.
No mip-mapping:
Mip-mapping (also all my mods, ignore the broken wildgrass, and minimap):
It's called an opinion. Not truth, and Notch is not God.
If you use a texture pack or texture mapping you should consider mipmapping. The simpler the textures and lighting schema, the less need you have for it. Perhaps he means he wants to keep the game's graphic rendering overhead low by innate properties, not by using a processing aid. Actually, who knows what he means when he says these things.
I can only guess that he said "ATI sucks" because Nvidia embraced the OpenGL standard, while ATI still has some compatibility issues with it. I have dual crossfire linked ATI cards capable of running most games at highest graphics settings at 60-90 FPS or better. But they simply can't deal with internal scatter in a transparent highly refractile solid (a green glass bead) in Blender, which uses OpenGL. Minecraft uses OpenGL as well, and maybe he is limited in the kinds of blocks and things he can do because of this. He wants to keep the game appealing and accessible to all users regardless of what type of GPU they bought. *shrug*
Same with dynamic lighting, occlusion, etc. Either you go to the effort to make it possible in your graphical world or you don't. You can choose not to and have perfectly good reasons - including keeping your vanilla game within the range of demand that anyone can run it on most computers.
Smooth lighting - he did incorporate this because of the popularity of BetterLight the mod.
As a programmer, there comes a point where you just want to keep things as simple as possible. He may not be a "visual" person in need of refined ambient occlusion, raytracing-quality lighting, dynamic lighting, mipmapping, smooth texture transition, etc. Or he might be and just can't justify the overhead in code and processing requirement these features would require of the person who wants to play Minecraft.
If you want to go to town and start creating a raytraced-rendered and seamlessly mipmapped 256x256 pixel version of Minecraft, go right ahead.
Just because he said it sucks, doesn't mean he isn't going to utilize it.
Even if he didn't, I don't see what the problem is. Basically, he'd be adding them almost exclusively for the sake of higher def texture packs. His default textures are so small that the game can easily resize them as it renders. The reason many high end 3D games have so many levels of mipmaps is because you're dealing with textures that are dozens of times as big as the ones used by minecraft.
Why do you people think he always means "so and so sucks" literally? If I'm tired of working on something, even if I LOVE it, I've been known to yell "THIS #$%^#$ SUCKS!".
Minimapping would ruin exploration in minecraft. It ruins the getting lost and looking for new things. Maps would do this also. Mini maps would ruin minecraft and notch is correct. Mini maps suck in a game about exploration.
Minimapping would ruin exploration in minecraft. It ruins the getting lost and looking for new things. Maps would do this also. Mini maps would ruin minecraft and notch is correct. Mini maps suck in a game about exploration.
I laughed at this, I just can't help it...you have no idea what they are talking about...sorry, I just find it funny.
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Did he say "Mipmapping sucks" or did he say "Mipmapping is an inferior technology which has no place being implemented in any game, let alone one such as grand and expansive as mine?"
Twitter says the first one, but the first poster said he said the second one...
Anyway, how is this related to Beta - Survival?
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My Grandmother passed away on Sunday, the 7th of August, 2011. I am taking an extended leave of absence in light of this. My apologies.
Minimapping would ruin exploration in minecraft. It ruins the getting lost and looking for new things. Maps would do this also. Mini maps would ruin minecraft and notch is correct. Mini maps suck in a game about exploration.
....did you actually read the whole thread? if you did, you'd know what you just said has absolutely nothing to do with it. if you did and made an honest mistake, then sorry for a false accusation. this thread is actually about MIP-mapping, which many 3d games use. it basicly is a performance/background thing, not an in-game element as such, that works with texture rendering. i really don't know much about it in all honesty, so i'm making my definition as vague as possible, but its a behind-the-scenes thing, not really an actual MAP. maybe i'll google it and find out more.
Edit: and as i type, two other people post the same thing. ah well
Minimapping would ruin exploration in minecraft. It ruins the getting lost and looking for new things. Maps would do this also. Mini maps would ruin minecraft and notch is correct. Mini maps suck in a game about exploration.
....did you actually read the whole thread? if you did, you'd know what you just said has absolutely nothing to do with it. if you did and made an honest mistake, then sorry for a false accusation. this thread is actually about MIP-mapping, which many 3d games use. it basicly is a performance/background thing, not an in-game element as such, that works with texture rendering. i really don't know much about it in all honesty, so i'm making my definition as vague as possible, but its a behind-the-scenes thing, not really an actual MAP. maybe i'll google it and find out more.
Edit: and as i type, two other people post the same thing. ah well
That's called being ninja'd.
Ontopic: ...I have no clue what mipmapping is.
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People who build absolutely stunning objects of fantastic creativity, those who are the leaders in what you can only imagine to accomplish in the infinite possibility that is Minecraft, I applaud you.
While those reasons are all just, fine and dandy, I reckon the real issue here is the fact that Notch doesn't bother explaining his opinion.
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Ah, good you guys pass the intelligence test. I got one of you though.
Cool overused excuse bro.
It's twitter not a debate forum where he needs to explain in detail his reasons for saying so. I think Crunkatog's post sums things up pretty well. Hater's will hate, opinions will still be opinions.
I'm pretty sure that as an experienced programmer that he is he KNOWS mipmapping could improve Minecraft. What he might mean by saying "it sucks" is that he is saying it is difficult to program. I don't know much about programming at all but unless someone can make a simple mod of it to prove that it is easy to program then my idea that he is complaining about how difficult it is to implement may very well be what Notch meant to say.
Oh and the whole moving light thing was nothing more than a misinterpretation of what he said. He knows moving light is possible. He did how ever say it was taxing on the engine and preferred not to implement it.
Yeah, for all the crap that people give him, I had more lag when I tried the miner's lamp than when I replaced all the leaves on trees with TNT on accident, and I can play on far, fancy, with smooth lighting and a 64x texture pack.
EDIT - How can he explain himself? Twitter is limited to 128 or 140 characters, he used half of a message saying what he did. An explanation that couldn't be picked apart and used as evidence of him secretly planning to kill all of his fanbase with lasers would take at least six messages, and then we'd get ten topics on here about why he is wasting his time on Twitter instead of implementing elephants that shoot lasers at his loyal fanbase.
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My Grandmother passed away on Sunday, the 7th of August, 2011. I am taking an extended leave of absence in light of this. My apologies.
Actually assuming my idea is correct this may very well be a sign that Notch and co. MIGHT BE IMPLEMENTING MIPMAPPING. It is very possible that he's getting frustrated with the program and said this on twitter.
Mipmapping is a process by which you create smaller versions of the texture to be used on the object when it is further away. 3D objects far from the camera end up resized during the rendering process. However by using mipmaps, you allow the renderer to not have to recalculate the full texture, as well as allow for more clean visuals. Sometimes, for instance, highly detailed objects get blurred or lose their detail when the renderer sizes them down itself. By creating mipmaps, you can focus on one detail, or manually redraw the details to preserve them better at that size.
The problem is that, with the default texture pack, nothing is particularly detailed anyways. It also doesn't take much processing to resize them because they are so small. I totally see the use of it for games running everything with full on highdef textures, but minecraft is not that complex. Cutting a 16x16 down to an 8x8, 4x4, or 2x2 would be very hard to manually detail to look any better than it does when done automatically, as with such large changes and such little area, it's going to become more or less a color blob anyways.
There's an example of what mipmaps for bedrock would look like in a texture file. After even one stage most of the detail has been stripped away, and by the time it's second stage out, it's just a grey blob.
Just floored by this, Notch is so closed-minded as to dismiss a technology used in just about every 3D game, which improves performance and greatly benefits visuals by virtually eliminating texture swirls at distances.
This is what mipmapping does; observe the bricks.
No mip-mapping:
Mip-mapping (also all my mods, ignore the broken wildgrass, and minimap):
If you use a texture pack or texture mapping you should consider mipmapping. The simpler the textures and lighting schema, the less need you have for it. Perhaps he means he wants to keep the game's graphic rendering overhead low by innate properties, not by using a processing aid. Actually, who knows what he means when he says these things.
I can only guess that he said "ATI sucks" because Nvidia embraced the OpenGL standard, while ATI still has some compatibility issues with it. I have dual crossfire linked ATI cards capable of running most games at highest graphics settings at 60-90 FPS or better. But they simply can't deal with internal scatter in a transparent highly refractile solid (a green glass bead) in Blender, which uses OpenGL. Minecraft uses OpenGL as well, and maybe he is limited in the kinds of blocks and things he can do because of this. He wants to keep the game appealing and accessible to all users regardless of what type of GPU they bought. *shrug*
Same with dynamic lighting, occlusion, etc. Either you go to the effort to make it possible in your graphical world or you don't. You can choose not to and have perfectly good reasons - including keeping your vanilla game within the range of demand that anyone can run it on most computers.
Smooth lighting - he did incorporate this because of the popularity of BetterLight the mod.
As a programmer, there comes a point where you just want to keep things as simple as possible. He may not be a "visual" person in need of refined ambient occlusion, raytracing-quality lighting, dynamic lighting, mipmapping, smooth texture transition, etc. Or he might be and just can't justify the overhead in code and processing requirement these features would require of the person who wants to play Minecraft.
If you want to go to town and start creating a raytraced-rendered and seamlessly mipmapped 256x256 pixel version of Minecraft, go right ahead.
Even if he didn't, I don't see what the problem is. Basically, he'd be adding them almost exclusively for the sake of higher def texture packs. His default textures are so small that the game can easily resize them as it renders. The reason many high end 3D games have so many levels of mipmaps is because you're dealing with textures that are dozens of times as big as the ones used by minecraft.
I laughed at this, I just can't help it...you have no idea what they are talking about...sorry, I just find it funny.
Twitter says the first one, but the first poster said he said the second one...
Anyway, how is this related to Beta - Survival?
....did you actually read the whole thread? if you did, you'd know what you just said has absolutely nothing to do with it. if you did and made an honest mistake, then sorry for a false accusation. this thread is actually about MIP-mapping, which many 3d games use. it basicly is a performance/background thing, not an in-game element as such, that works with texture rendering. i really don't know much about it in all honesty, so i'm making my definition as vague as possible, but its a behind-the-scenes thing, not really an actual MAP. maybe i'll google it and find out more.
Edit: and as i type, two other people post the same thing. ah well
That's called being ninja'd.
Ontopic: ...I have no clue what mipmapping is.
"Oh damn, I'm an idiot! What's the quickest way out of this?
"LOLZ GUYZ I BE TROLLIN nice job not fallin' forz it!"
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It's twitter not a debate forum where he needs to explain in detail his reasons for saying so. I think Crunkatog's post sums things up pretty well. Hater's will hate, opinions will still be opinions.
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I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Oh and the whole moving light thing was nothing more than a misinterpretation of what he said. He knows moving light is possible. He did how ever say it was taxing on the engine and preferred not to implement it.
EDIT - How can he explain himself? Twitter is limited to 128 or 140 characters, he used half of a message saying what he did. An explanation that couldn't be picked apart and used as evidence of him secretly planning to kill all of his fanbase with lasers would take at least six messages, and then we'd get ten topics on here about why he is wasting his time on Twitter instead of implementing elephants that shoot lasers at his loyal fanbase.
The problem is that, with the default texture pack, nothing is particularly detailed anyways. It also doesn't take much processing to resize them because they are so small. I totally see the use of it for games running everything with full on highdef textures, but minecraft is not that complex. Cutting a 16x16 down to an 8x8, 4x4, or 2x2 would be very hard to manually detail to look any better than it does when done automatically, as with such large changes and such little area, it's going to become more or less a color blob anyways.
There's an example of what mipmaps for bedrock would look like in a texture file. After even one stage most of the detail has been stripped away, and by the time it's second stage out, it's just a grey blob.
Here is what mip-mapping does if anyone is interested; look at the bricks.
No mip-mapping:
Mip-mapping (and broken wildgrass, and minimap lol):