I'm keeping 10 feet away from the question at hand at all times, not touching it with someone else's, etc.
I will, however, say that i found that very guide to be the most useful source of minecraft info when i was starting out. I rarely need to look at it anymore, but even after i had well and truly learned the ropes, i still kept a page open on that guide for quite some time. Whatever the reason is for it being removed, this place will only get worse from its removal.
Yes, thank you for not reading my comment at all.
His guide is still his property regardless of copyright, so as far as I know, copying it and claiming it as your own as brienza pointed out is still illegal. But even if it was perfectly legal, it'd still be wrong to do so.
Quote from FinalFan »
Quote from SaiyanKirby »
He wrote 99% of that guide himself
I'm sure he wrote the words, but I seriously doubt that percentage is correct as regards what information he found himself vs. what was pointed out to him in the context of the FAQ.
FAQ stands for "frequently asked questions", so of course he needs input to add to the FAQ. It was still his own effort that contributed the information displayed in it. Nobody is omnipotent and knows everything there is to know about the game. Even best selling authors have to ask for help or look information up, that doesn't mean they need to give Wikipedia half of the ownership of the book.
Yes, thank you for not reading my comment at all.
His guide is still his property regardless of copyright, so as far as I know, copying it and claiming it as your own as brienza pointed out is still illegal. But even if it was perfectly legal, it'd still be wrong to do so.
Quote from FinalFan »
Quote from SaiyanKirby »
He wrote 99% of that guide himself
I'm sure he wrote the words, but I seriously doubt that percentage is correct as regards what information he found himself vs. what was pointed out to him in the context of the FAQ.
FAQ stands for "frequently asked questions", so of course he needs input to add to the FAQ. It was still his own effort that contributed the information displayed in it. Nobody is omnipotent and knows everything there is to know about the game. Even best selling authors have to ask for help or look information up, that doesn't mean they need to give Wikipedia half of the ownership of the book.
Ironically, I think you didn't read my comment at all.
I specifically made my point about the information he DIDN'T look up by himself on Wikipedia or whatever, or stuff he learned from others as an ordinary player, but rather the information that was pointed out to him as information that needed to be corrected in the FAQ, or could benefit the FAQ by being added to it. These people made their own contributions for the purpose of benefiting the community, not for the purpose of being collateral damage in Kris18's ragequit.
I'm sure he wrote the words, but I seriously doubt that percentage is correct as regards what information he found himself vs. what was pointed out to him in the context of the FAQ.
I must say, I'm irritated that you feel entitled to the information. He compiled it, he built it from the ground up, bumped it until it was stickied, and maintained it. Like I have said before, 99% of the information in that thread is available in the wiki so it isn't exactly gone forever. Honestly, it isn't possible to respect someone and disrespect their decisions. If you really, truly, respect him, you would recreate your own FAQ and go through the rigmarole that he did and continue the spirit of his work, attempting to improve it even. If someone tried this garbage with my thread if I had ragedeleted it, I would not be happy.
He removed the FAQ because nobody used it and continues to post random spam topics that are answered in there. Kris left because this is one of the most disrespectful, trollish forums that I know of. When you get people actually supporting trolls, that is when it becomes unbearable.
I nearly left the forums myself yesterday.
And you know nobody used it because.....?
People USING it are not necessarily going to COMMENT on it, or say anything in any way. They might, you know, look at it, and then go back to their game.
Dont get me wrong: I'm against all the idiot trolls as well. But on the other hand, I've been to *alot* of forums. This one really IS rather tame compared to the vast majority of them. And really, it's the internet. If you come to a forum for something that's even somewhat, almost, KINDA popular, and you ARENT ready to deal with that kind of stupidity, well, it's your own fault that you then end up so exasperated.
That being said, taking down such a useful FAQ for new players simply because of "WAAAHHHH TROLLS" is, frankly, a very lame and rather pouty, childish reason. You're not going to show up those trolls or something by removing this.... what concievable, logical, GOOD reason is there? This really honestly seems like a "Well THAT will teach them!" sort of reason.
The ONE, and I do mean ONE, thing you will accomplish by removing this is forcing someone else, later on, to waste a whole bunch of time in re-writing it.
Quote from Enjay »
Personal opinion, Kris18 threw a hissy fit and did a spiteful thing. While he may have had his reasons, are the people who loose out the most (new players) really his target? I don't know but I certainly don't like the nature of the act. He could leave without adopting a scorched earth policy. Him leaving would be statement enough. Overwriting his guide leaves a bad taste and accords him the legacy of "that guy who rage quit and deleted his help guide" rather than "that useful forum member who left and we miss".
My thoughts exactly.
EDIT: And about the "random spam topics". You could have just IGNORED THEM. The person posting them may simply not have noticed the FAQ post (yes, it's possible to not notice it. No, it does not make the person a troll or a moron). Ignored it INSTEAD of jumping down their throats (which I saw Kris do ALOT, and is the exact reason why I have absolutely no sympathy here), or giving them a holier-than-thou "Stop posting this, it's been answered alot of times, blahblahblah", which seemed to be the response I usually saw to such topics. And, frankly, that sort of thing is quite rude. Just because you THINK people like that should notice your FAQ topic, does not mean they will.
Ironically, I think you didn't read my comment at all.
I specifically made my point about the information he DIDN'T look up by himself on Wikipedia or whatever, or stuff he learned from others as an ordinary player, but rather the information that was pointed out to him as information that needed to be corrected in the FAQ, or could benefit the FAQ by being added to it. These people made their own contributions for the purpose of benefiting the community, not for the purpose of being collateral damage in Kris18's ragequit.
Now it just seems like you're intentionally being a jerk to make me stumble in my argument so you can seem right.
I already addressed that. Even bestselling authors require help. Game developers require beta testers. Music composers require criticism. That doesn't make you entitled to the guide at all.
Regardless, what's his is his and you should have the common decency to at least start from the ground up. I mean, the information is on the Wiki anyway so it's not like knowledge was lost.
Quote from Cubia »
That being said, taking down such a useful FAQ for new players simply because of "WAAAHHHH TROLLS" is, frankly, a very lame and rather pouty, childish reason. You're not going to show up those trolls or something by removing this.... what concievable, logical, GOOD reason is there? This really honestly seems like a "Well THAT will teach them!" sort of reason.
There's a lot more to it, behind the scenes, that you don't know.
The declining community was actually only a small part of his decision.
There's a lot more to it, behind the scenes, that you don't know.
The declining community was actually only a small part of his decision.
I can understand that, I suppose.
Regardless of the reasons though, taking down the FAQ *will* only do more damage, is my point, I guess. And it really DOES seem like "throwing a hissy fit", regardless of what actually happened.
FinalFan, I would suggest that you rename the topic to just "Newbie FAQ", and that people that have issues with the information stores in this guide move to the off-topic forum. It's good to know that someone was willing to step up after Kris18 decided that he did not want to have further control over the guide nor to even come here any further. The guide, though, is public domain and, frankly, a wonderful resource for all new users. Removing it is EXTREMELY childish, and a topic for another topic.
I PM'd you the process to create anchor links, which is as follows, in case you see this first:
[anchor=test]This is a test.[/anchor]
[goto=test]Test[/goto]
Good luck, mate, and hopefully someone will prune out all of the off topic posts in here!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fire And Ice
Some say the world will end in fire
Some say in ice
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire
But if it had to perish twice
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice
I just stored Kris's guide on notepad, if this is ever deleted, I'll just repost it. Ain't that great? Nothing ever dies on the interwebz! Also, who knows about the wiki as a newb? It's not exactly mentioned in bold in front of everyone's face? I think Kris is just being a brat. Btw, Kris, close the front door on your way out.
I'm not just talking about feedback, kirby, I'm talking about people who are responsible for considerable percentages of the FAQ, and considerable amounts of the maintenance thereof.
Pianosaurus, for stealing my posts answering many questions before I got around to it, and providing some information.
SaiyanKirby, for proofreading and helping edit after the Halloween Update
About 5 others for bits and pieces of information. :biggrin.gif:
Juze, for proofreading and finding errors.
arirish, for answering questions, and providing some information.
Aiero, for providing terms for the glossary. (See also: MineTionary)
Xenogard, for answering questions.
TrippleDot, for answering questions.
Magixx, for answering questions.
SparcMan, for answering questions.
FinalFan, I would suggest that you rename the topic to just "Newbie FAQ", and that people that have issues with the information stores in this guide move to the off-topic forum. It's good to know that someone was willing to step up after Kris18 decided that he did not want to have further control over the guide nor to even come here any further. The guide, though, is public domain and, frankly, a wonderful resource for all new users. Removing it is EXTREMELY childish, and a topic for another topic.
I PM'd you the process to create anchor links, which is as follows, in case you see this first:
[anchor=test]This is a test.[/anchor]
[goto=test]Test[/goto]
Good luck, mate, and hopefully someone will prune out all of the off topic posts in here!
If you all intend on making another FAQ, I'd be more than happy to help, if you want. I've written up things like this before, just not such a huge one like the original FAQ.
One way or another, an extensive FAQ can only help. It assists new players, clears up questions, and is a good reference for if the Wiki is acting up (which it does do every now and then).
If I can be of any assistance, do let me know. I have lots and lots of free time anyway....
EDIT: Specifically, let me know with a PM, if you think I can be of any use. It's likely that I'll forget to actually check this topic again.
Yes, thank you for not reading my comment at all.
His guide is still his property regardless of copyright, so as far as I know, copying it and claiming it as your own as brienza pointed out is still illegal. But even if it was perfectly legal, it'd still be wrong to do so.
His guide is not his property, unless copyrighted or otherwise made clear that it shouldn't be reproduced. Also, OP did not claim it as his own.
Thanks tons, Guswut. I have to go, but that'll be the first thing I look at.
No worries, mate. If I have some time later tonight, and I haven't seen you around, I'll create the goto and anchor tags for you, and PM them over to you. I can get the original BBCode from a quo0te of the original post, so I'll just PM you the tags, as well as the updated original post. Again, that's if I get the twenty minutes to do this (maybe less, but I'll likely take some time to go and make a nice script to do it all for me... Bahah).
~~~
Quote from Cubia »
Quote from Guswut »
FinalFan, I would suggest that you rename the topic to just "Newbie FAQ", and that people that have issues with the information stores in this guide move to the off-topic forum. It's good to know that someone was willing to step up after Kris18 decided that he did not want to have further control over the guide nor to even come here any further. The guide, though, is public domain and, frankly, a wonderful resource for all new users. Removing it is EXTREMELY childish, and a topic for another topic.
I PM'd you the process to create anchor links, which is as follows, in case you see this first:
[anchor=test]This is a test.[/anchor]
[goto=test]Test[/goto]
Good luck, mate, and hopefully someone will prune out all of the off topic posts in here!
If you all intend on making another FAQ, I'd be more than happy to help, if you want. I've written up things like this before, just not such a huge one like the original FAQ.
One way or another, an extensive FAQ can only help. It assists new players, clears up questions, and is a good reference for if the Wiki is acting up (which it does do every now and then).
If I can be of any assistance, do let me know. I have lots and lots of free time anyway....
EDIT: Specifically, let me know with a PM, if you think I can be of any use. It's likely that I'll forget to actually check this topic again.
Honestly, I think the best course of action would be to get the guide on the wiki as well as keep it here. That way we have it on the wiki in case the forums are acting up (such as someone deciding that they want to remove the guide entirely), whereas, on the wiki, you can recover previous versions with ease.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Fire And Ice
Some say the world will end in fire
Some say in ice
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire
But if it had to perish twice
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice
Honestly, I think the best course of action would be to get the guide on the wiki as well as keep it here. That way we have it on the wiki in case the forums are acting up (such as someone deciding that they want to remove the guide entirely), whereas, on the wiki, you can recover previous versions with ease.
I agree, though I'd hope to keep SOMETHING of this on the actual forums here. I've found that plenty of players tend to not even know the Wiki site exists (I've had to point it out to friends many times), and.... well, I swear that the Wiki site just ENJOYS acting up when I want to have a look at it. Really. It clearly does it on purpose!
Yes, thank you for not reading my comment at all.
His guide is still his property regardless of copyright, so as far as I know, copying it and claiming it as your own as brienza pointed out is still illegal. But even if it was perfectly legal, it'd still be wrong to do so.
His guide is not his property, unless copyrighted or otherwise made clear that it shouldn't be reproduced. Also, OP did not claim it as his own.
He doesn't have to CLAIM it's his property, it's plainly ****ing obvious. If he wrote it, it's his property. That's like me writing a song and you tell me I don't own it because I don't scream "THIS SONG WAS WROTE BY SAIYANKIRBY" in the lyrics.
Quote from FinalFan »
I'm not just talking about feedback, kirby, I'm talking about people who are responsible for considerable percentages of the FAQ, and considerable amounts of the maintenance thereof.
-snip-
Most of those are very small contributions, only taking a one-sentence-long-post. For example, I'm listed as proof-reading the guide and editing it after the Halloween Update; I only took about 10 minutes of my time to help him.
People saying Kris is immature obviously are either being ignorant, or have no idea about the gravity of his decision. I know him personally, and this has been a decision he's taken weeks to come up with.
Now with that said, I'm actually going to see him in person tonight, so I'm done with this thread.
I will, however, say that i found that very guide to be the most useful source of minecraft info when i was starting out. I rarely need to look at it anymore, but even after i had well and truly learned the ropes, i still kept a page open on that guide for quite some time. Whatever the reason is for it being removed, this place will only get worse from its removal.
Yes, thank you for not reading my comment at all.
His guide is still his property regardless of copyright, so as far as I know, copying it and claiming it as your own as brienza pointed out is still illegal. But even if it was perfectly legal, it'd still be wrong to do so.
FAQ stands for "frequently asked questions", so of course he needs input to add to the FAQ. It was still his own effort that contributed the information displayed in it. Nobody is omnipotent and knows everything there is to know about the game. Even best selling authors have to ask for help or look information up, that doesn't mean they need to give Wikipedia half of the ownership of the book.
Ironically, I think you didn't read my comment at all.
I specifically made my point about the information he DIDN'T look up by himself on Wikipedia or whatever, or stuff he learned from others as an ordinary player, but rather the information that was pointed out to him as information that needed to be corrected in the FAQ, or could benefit the FAQ by being added to it. These people made their own contributions for the purpose of benefiting the community, not for the purpose of being collateral damage in Kris18's ragequit.
I must say, I'm irritated that you feel entitled to the information. He compiled it, he built it from the ground up, bumped it until it was stickied, and maintained it. Like I have said before, 99% of the information in that thread is available in the wiki so it isn't exactly gone forever. Honestly, it isn't possible to respect someone and disrespect their decisions. If you really, truly, respect him, you would recreate your own FAQ and go through the rigmarole that he did and continue the spirit of his work, attempting to improve it even. If someone tried this garbage with my thread if I had ragedeleted it, I would not be happy.
And you know nobody used it because.....?
People USING it are not necessarily going to COMMENT on it, or say anything in any way. They might, you know, look at it, and then go back to their game.
Dont get me wrong: I'm against all the idiot trolls as well. But on the other hand, I've been to *alot* of forums. This one really IS rather tame compared to the vast majority of them. And really, it's the internet. If you come to a forum for something that's even somewhat, almost, KINDA popular, and you ARENT ready to deal with that kind of stupidity, well, it's your own fault that you then end up so exasperated.
That being said, taking down such a useful FAQ for new players simply because of "WAAAHHHH TROLLS" is, frankly, a very lame and rather pouty, childish reason. You're not going to show up those trolls or something by removing this.... what concievable, logical, GOOD reason is there? This really honestly seems like a "Well THAT will teach them!" sort of reason.
The ONE, and I do mean ONE, thing you will accomplish by removing this is forcing someone else, later on, to waste a whole bunch of time in re-writing it.
My thoughts exactly.
EDIT: And about the "random spam topics". You could have just IGNORED THEM. The person posting them may simply not have noticed the FAQ post (yes, it's possible to not notice it. No, it does not make the person a troll or a moron). Ignored it INSTEAD of jumping down their throats (which I saw Kris do ALOT, and is the exact reason why I have absolutely no sympathy here), or giving them a holier-than-thou "Stop posting this, it's been answered alot of times, blahblahblah", which seemed to be the response I usually saw to such topics. And, frankly, that sort of thing is quite rude. Just because you THINK people like that should notice your FAQ topic, does not mean they will.
Now it just seems like you're intentionally being a jerk to make me stumble in my argument so you can seem right.
I already addressed that. Even bestselling authors require help. Game developers require beta testers. Music composers require criticism. That doesn't make you entitled to the guide at all.
Regardless, what's his is his and you should have the common decency to at least start from the ground up. I mean, the information is on the Wiki anyway so it's not like knowledge was lost.
There's a lot more to it, behind the scenes, that you don't know.
The declining community was actually only a small part of his decision.
I can understand that, I suppose.
Regardless of the reasons though, taking down the FAQ *will* only do more damage, is my point, I guess. And it really DOES seem like "throwing a hissy fit", regardless of what actually happened.
I PM'd you the process to create anchor links, which is as follows, in case you see this first:
Which results in this:
This is a test.
Test
Good luck, mate, and hopefully someone will prune out all of the off topic posts in here!
Some say the world will end in fire
Some say in ice
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire
But if it had to perish twice
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice
If you all intend on making another FAQ, I'd be more than happy to help, if you want. I've written up things like this before, just not such a huge one like the original FAQ.
One way or another, an extensive FAQ can only help. It assists new players, clears up questions, and is a good reference for if the Wiki is acting up (which it does do every now and then).
If I can be of any assistance, do let me know. I have lots and lots of free time anyway....
EDIT: Specifically, let me know with a PM, if you think I can be of any use. It's likely that I'll forget to actually check this topic again.
His guide is not his property, unless copyrighted or otherwise made clear that it shouldn't be reproduced. Also, OP did not claim it as his own.
Mod edit: User warned for insulting/flamebaiting.
PLEASE dont do direct insults like that. It's rude and just plain not nice. This topic does not need to be a big flame war.
No worries, mate. If I have some time later tonight, and I haven't seen you around, I'll create the goto and anchor tags for you, and PM them over to you. I can get the original BBCode from a quo0te of the original post, so I'll just PM you the tags, as well as the updated original post. Again, that's if I get the twenty minutes to do this (maybe less, but I'll likely take some time to go and make a nice script to do it all for me... Bahah).
~~~
Honestly, I think the best course of action would be to get the guide on the wiki as well as keep it here. That way we have it on the wiki in case the forums are acting up (such as someone deciding that they want to remove the guide entirely), whereas, on the wiki, you can recover previous versions with ease.
Some say the world will end in fire
Some say in ice
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire
But if it had to perish twice
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice
I agree, though I'd hope to keep SOMETHING of this on the actual forums here. I've found that plenty of players tend to not even know the Wiki site exists (I've had to point it out to friends many times), and.... well, I swear that the Wiki site just ENJOYS acting up when I want to have a look at it. Really. It clearly does it on purpose!
A very good idea though, either way.
He doesn't have to CLAIM it's his property, it's plainly ****ing obvious. If he wrote it, it's his property. That's like me writing a song and you tell me I don't own it because I don't scream "THIS SONG WAS WROTE BY SAIYANKIRBY" in the lyrics.
Most of those are very small contributions, only taking a one-sentence-long-post. For example, I'm listed as proof-reading the guide and editing it after the Halloween Update; I only took about 10 minutes of my time to help him.
People saying Kris is immature obviously are either being ignorant, or have no idea about the gravity of his decision. I know him personally, and this has been a decision he's taken weeks to come up with.
Now with that said, I'm actually going to see him in person tonight, so I'm done with this thread.
Yes I stole that from Erjay's sig. =D
On topic:
If Kris wants it down then take it down, he has contributed to the community enough and should be respected for it.