People shouldn't flame this guy, he disagrees with what was done, and wrote a complete, well thought out argument.
However, if you don't like taming wolves, treat them as regular mobs. It's that simple.
On the other hand, the fact that a lot of time is being, and has been, put into developing wolves instead of minecarts, weapons, or enemies that you would have liked to see... well I can't help you there.
^^
this.
wolves... add a new dimension to the game.
but imo, it's an awful dimension filled with newbs like
OMG!!11!!!!!!11! i fond a wulf! i will call hm teddy and i wil luv him!
5 mins later
he deid! he si ment to atack creppers! *ragequit*
yes, I did stereotypicalise a bit (look at the spelling if you didn't notice) but i'd have preffered it if, rather than release wolves, he released a nether update or something.
Yeah, the Nether is definitely a cool medium for features. Am I the only one who wants the ability 2 spawn in there?
(Ya know, once it has substitutes for Earth things.)
Also, Notch is going to read this thread. I guarantee it.
And now that I've read the whole thing, I noticed that you just said wolves are terrible and need improvement, then at the end said to leave them how they are. MAKE UP YOUR MIND!
Again, you're missing the point. I've made up my mind: wolves suck now, but to make them better would require a huge amount of development time that could be better spent elsewhere in the game.
As such, I'd rather see them be a write-off lame feature as they stand, then miss out on all the other cool stuff that could be in there instead.
Invalid argument. If nobody is getting the point, then it clearly says that you need to rewrite your post so that it makes sense. Any fool can see that.
Invalid argument. If nobody is getting the point, then it clearly says that you need to rewrite your post so that it makes sense. Any fool can see that.
Either that, or it clearly states that the public school system needs to focus more on written comprehension.
you seem to forget that this is beta, not finished, needs polish, has bugs and features that don't quite work right. It will get better if you wait longer than 5 hours.
EXACTLY RIGHT!!!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I put the epic in epic!
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I tried to make it go through the doors into my doghouse. Didnt work, had to break the doors.
Oh, and Jeb was the one who made the wolves. /thread
By his own blog, Notch was the one who ran into a developer at the GDC who suggested pets in the game, and who then designed the wolves. Who implemented them is a secondary consideration to the argument.
Jeez, we've not had them for even 12 hours yet and already people are whining.
People need to think about this before they complain.
Actually, I thought they were a bad idea when I first heard mention of them in Notch's blog. All these same arguments were bouncing around in my head since then. However, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until I actually saw them in game.
Now I have. I don't think there would be a better time to make this argument then now, BEFORE even more development time is spent on the wolves.
Daww, I'm so sorry that Mojang put an element into their game that you don't like. It doesn't even matter if anyone else likes it, let's remove it because YOU don't like it! Of course!
That's the nice thing about Minecraft. You don't have to experience everything in the game. If you don't like spiders or creepers, you can turn them off. If you don't like the new lighting, turn it off. If you don't like cake, don't make one. If you don't like wolves, leave them the hell alone. Simple enough, eh?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from wyrmhole »
What's it like this time of year in Logical Fallacy Land? I hear the weather is always nice because the weather is always nice.
Daww, I'm so sorry that Mojang put an element into their game that you don't like. It doesn't even matter if anyone else likes it, let's remove it because YOU don't like it! Of course!
I think most people who like them, like the PROMISE of what the wolves might eventually become, rather than what they are right now. To attain that promise, more work will need to be invested into the wolves, and I doubt anyone will seriously argue against that point.
Quote from MrWhite »
That's the nice thing about Minecraft. You don't have to experience everything in the game. If you don't like spiders or creepers, you can turn them off. If you don't like the new lighting, turn it off. If you don't like cake, don't make one. If you don't like wolves, leave them the hell alone. Simple enough, eh?
Again, my whole argument revolves not around whether I like the wolves or not, or whether I want to play with them or not (which I don't, and I won't), BUT about all the other features that could be in the game if the wolves aren't there.
Sure, I can stop playing with the wolves if I don't like them, but that still means I won't get to play with everything else that is not going to make it into the game because of them.
However, I think people don't realize that nobody is saying that wolves suck. Especially those who say "Don't like it, don't use it" COMPLETELY missed the point of this topic. Wolves are - in theory - an awesome addition. They are just nowhere near as awesome as they could be. time could have been spent on seasons, weather, dragons or whatever else... and some of these things could - while being more interesting than wolves - have been released within a WEEK.
Anyhow. I think we all are aware of the fact that Notch is a rich pers(s)on, and he's doing this because he wants to. So let's keep this constructive criticism, not flame and hate.
Thanks man, you seem to have understood EXACTLY what I've been trying to say.
I've actually got a great deal of respect for Notch, and wouldn't be trying to appeal to his sense of reason with this post otherwise. I obviously love the game he's created to care enough to make this kind of argument to begin with.
I DO however think that he's gone off on a total tangent with this latest feature, and I really wish he'd focus more on the core game I love rather than on seconday features with little relevance to that core.
The game isn't on a deadline. Nor does wolves restrict any new features from being implemented, although it (might) just make it a little more difficult to code. Also, there are multiple people working on the game, not just Notch...
Other than that, I agree with most of your points.
Once the initial novelty wears off, I can see a lot of complaining and pushing to improve the wolf AI. One of two things will happen. Either Notch & co. ignores these people and leaves the wolves alone, or they will keep tweaking the wolves at the expense of other features they could be working on. Calling out "beta" does not magically eliminate the cost of improving buggy or suboptimal features.
While i look forward to trying wolves, i found the OP to be a complete, well thought out argument.
Nice post.
Thank you sir. I spent about 15 years (no joke) working as a designer and a programmer in the game industry before wising up and moving onto other things, so I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my behind.
Now I restrict my interest in games to playing and posting on the forums of games I really love, and I'm much happier for it :wink.gif:
The game isn't on a deadline. Nor does wolves restrict any new features from being implemented, although it (might) just make it a little more difficult to code. Also, there are multiple people working on the game, not just Notch...
Other than that, I agree with most of your points.
The game might not be on any kind of deadline, but I think we'd all agree that sooner or later they're going to call it quits and stop working on it to move to other things.
As such, we are dealing with finite development resources, fixed schedule or no.
I have seen to many games that have wasted huge amounts of development time into feature that do not matter to the core audience. Taming wolves good idea but the romance wears off quickly and becomes annoying.
I would suggest spending time on the core concepts like
-Minecarts
-Underworld
-Advance redstone
-Pick up some of the mods that people make and integrate them into the game
-Water and lava issues
Yeah, the Nether is definitely a cool medium for features. Am I the only one who wants the ability 2 spawn in there?
(Ya know, once it has substitutes for Earth things.)
Again, you're missing the point. I've made up my mind: wolves suck now, but to make them better would require a huge amount of development time that could be better spent elsewhere in the game.
As such, I'd rather see them be a write-off lame feature as they stand, then miss out on all the other cool stuff that could be in there instead.
Invalid argument. If nobody is getting the point, then it clearly says that you need to rewrite your post so that it makes sense. Any fool can see that.
Either that, or it clearly states that the public school system needs to focus more on written comprehension.
I tried to make it go through the doors into my doghouse. Didnt work, had to break the doors.
Oh, and Jeb was the one who made the wolves. /thread
EXACTLY RIGHT!!!
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By his own blog, Notch was the one who ran into a developer at the GDC who suggested pets in the game, and who then designed the wolves. Who implemented them is a secondary consideration to the argument.
I guess that means !/thread
Actually, I thought they were a bad idea when I first heard mention of them in Notch's blog. All these same arguments were bouncing around in my head since then. However, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until I actually saw them in game.
Now I have. I don't think there would be a better time to make this argument then now, BEFORE even more development time is spent on the wolves.
That's the nice thing about Minecraft. You don't have to experience everything in the game. If you don't like spiders or creepers, you can turn them off. If you don't like the new lighting, turn it off. If you don't like cake, don't make one. If you don't like wolves, leave them the hell alone. Simple enough, eh?
I think most people who like them, like the PROMISE of what the wolves might eventually become, rather than what they are right now. To attain that promise, more work will need to be invested into the wolves, and I doubt anyone will seriously argue against that point.
Again, my whole argument revolves not around whether I like the wolves or not, or whether I want to play with them or not (which I don't, and I won't), BUT about all the other features that could be in the game if the wolves aren't there.
Sure, I can stop playing with the wolves if I don't like them, but that still means I won't get to play with everything else that is not going to make it into the game because of them.
Thanks man, you seem to have understood EXACTLY what I've been trying to say.
I've actually got a great deal of respect for Notch, and wouldn't be trying to appeal to his sense of reason with this post otherwise. I obviously love the game he's created to care enough to make this kind of argument to begin with.
I DO however think that he's gone off on a total tangent with this latest feature, and I really wish he'd focus more on the core game I love rather than on seconday features with little relevance to that core.
Nice post.
You don't need a spiritual leader to achieve enlightenment.
Other than that, I agree with most of your points.
Once the initial novelty wears off, I can see a lot of complaining and pushing to improve the wolf AI. One of two things will happen. Either Notch & co. ignores these people and leaves the wolves alone, or they will keep tweaking the wolves at the expense of other features they could be working on. Calling out "beta" does not magically eliminate the cost of improving buggy or suboptimal features.
Mods I Develop: Garden Stuff -- Storage Drawers -- Hunger Strike
Tools I Develop: NBTExplorer -- Substrate
Thank you sir. I spent about 15 years (no joke) working as a designer and a programmer in the game industry before wising up and moving onto other things, so I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my behind.
Now I restrict my interest in games to playing and posting on the forums of games I really love, and I'm much happier for it :wink.gif:
The game might not be on any kind of deadline, but I think we'd all agree that sooner or later they're going to call it quits and stop working on it to move to other things.
As such, we are dealing with finite development resources, fixed schedule or no.
I have seen to many games that have wasted huge amounts of development time into feature that do not matter to the core audience. Taming wolves good idea but the romance wears off quickly and becomes annoying.
I would suggest spending time on the core concepts like
-Minecarts
-Underworld
-Advance redstone
-Pick up some of the mods that people make and integrate them into the game
-Water and lava issues
Seriously. What is wrong with you people? Can't you read? Nobody said anything about disliking wolves.
Here, let me spell it out for you:
When something is in BETA, it means that it lacks BASIC CONTENT.
Wolves are a feature which strays from the CORE GAMEPLAY, therefore they are NOT BASIC CONTENT.
The implementation of wolves has not made this game any less of a BETA than it was before.
Please get this through your skulls, this thread has possibly already damaged my IQ.
Finally I'll end by saying:
IF YOU DIDN'T READ THE FIRST POST THEN DON'T POST IN THE THREAD!
(As for the people who did recognize this thread as constructive, I respect you and you are not idiots.)
Hehehe...I'm beginning to get the impression that this thread is attracting more and more professional game developers.
Your use of industry terminology gives you away :wink.gif: