Haha, Notch just responded to my question on the live stream just now:
What do you think about mob farms? Balanced or not? Blah blah. A bit more wordy.
I couldn't hear exactly, but from what I heard, he said that they want to start worrying about balance in multiplayer, but in single player... *shrugs*
I'll have to wait until I can watch the show in full after it's over so I can hear exactly what he said.
Can we just agree that it's not right that it's in the game.
This is where many of us disagree. Frankly, since it uses existing game mechanics; it's fine where it is. Likewise, it doesn't matter if Notch didn't plan on it, because Notch wants emergence. He wants people to do things he doesn't expect.
Quote from trunksbomb »
ZING
Haha, Notch just responded to my question on the live stream just now:
What do you think about mob farms? Balanced or not? Blah blah. A bit more wordy.
I couldn't hear exactly, but from what I heard, he said that they want to start worrying about balance in multiplayer, but in single player... *shrugs*
I'll have to wait until I can watch the show in full after it's over so I can hear exactly what he said.
I used your own definition there. We have proven, in this thread, that there is no balance of power between two strategic options. To be technical, it doesn't have to be a great imbalance for imbalance to objectively exist.
You've also fallen into the trap of insisting superiority/inferiority = balance/imbalance. They are, by definition, not, and neither is the degree of difference between the two, as the effects on any form of balance due to this can only be examined in respect to gameplay as a whole.
You've fallen into your own trap. Superiority/inferiority requires the context of the game to establish; while balance/imbalance only requires a comparison of two elements (strategic options).
I agree we should all be friends. I try to be nice and not insult anyone; but please withdraw your feeble arguments. At least, you should define any new term you bring to a debate. No one said superior=imbalanced. strong/weak would be a better rewording; as this implies measurability and ... imbalance. Also you failed to respond to my suggestions for correcting your earlier post.
mob farms, in and of themselves, cannot be imbalanced. Mob farms and mob hunting cannot be compared alone together for balance because there is no context without game-play. Balance MUST be analyzed in respect to gameplay, because it's the only level at which balance exists.
I would agree with this if you agree that balance is only materially important in the context of gameplay. That is why it is usually described in those terms. Also, to be friendly, we can agree that MC supports a great deal of imbalance.;D In summary:
Dear AVO, 43 pages of this nonsense?
Can we just agree that it's not right that it's in the game but it's not wrong that people use it?
Becuase I read through the past few pages, and honestly... it's just a mosh pit of words.
Can we just agree that it's right that it's in the game but it's wrong that people use it? JK;D
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Bad design on the mug led to water and magma occasionally forming blockages. A catwalk allows access to fix these, in a recent cleaning attempt two legendary miners slipped on water on the catwalk and fell to their deaths in the obsidian mold.
Haha, Notch just responded to my question on the live stream just now:
What do you think about mob farms? Balanced or not? Blah blah. A bit more wordy.
I couldn't hear exactly, but from what I heard, he said that they want to start worrying about balance in multiplayer, but in single player... *shrugs*
I'll have to wait until I can watch the show in full after it's over so I can hear exactly what he said.
Can't wait to heard it, wasn't there to see the show. This could help this problem be solve.
Notch hammer!
I find it amazing how a community would use what they have in game to create something as amazing as a mob farmer...We've got some smart people playing this game...
Haha, Notch just responded to my question on the live stream just now:
What do you think about mob farms? Balanced or not? Blah blah. A bit more wordy.
I couldn't hear exactly, but from what I heard, he said that they want to start worrying about balance in multiplayer, but in single player... *shrugs*
I'll have to wait until I can watch the show in full after it's over so I can hear exactly what he said.
Can't wait to heard it, wasn't there to see the show. This could help this problem be solve.
Notch hammer!
Mob farms are perfectly balanced in a PvP setting. Everyone can build one. You could even say that we finally have something that it is reasonable to defend. You can take everything else with you or have it stored in tiny hidden chests.
Haha, Notch just responded to my question on the live stream just now:
What do you think about mob farms? Balanced or not? Blah blah. A bit more wordy.
I couldn't hear exactly, but from what I heard, he said that they want to start worrying about balance in multiplayer, but in single player... *shrugs*
I'll have to wait until I can watch the show in full after it's over so I can hear exactly what he said.
Can't wait to heard it, wasn't there to see the show. This could help this problem be solve.
Notch hammer!
Mob farms are perfectly balanced in a PvP setting. Everyone can build one. You could even say that we finally have something that it is reasonable to defend. You can take everything else with you or have it stored in tiny hidden chests.
they're improperly using the word 'balance' but refuse to admit it.
what they mean is "the curve between mob hunting and mob farming is too steep".
@ The InkFox. Please don't talk about me as if I am not here. Please don't say I'm using something improperly, if you can't show how. Please don't improperly paraphrase my position unless you are trying to further the discussion. At least you are on topic.XD
what they mean is "the curve between mob hunting and mob farming is too steep".
Specifically, I am saying Mob farming makes hunting items by hand obsolete; mob farming removes hand gathering as a strategic option. Balance here refers to the relative power of two strategic options. This is not about whether it effects the game. You are misusing balance here, and refuse to argue it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bad design on the mug led to water and magma occasionally forming blockages. A catwalk allows access to fix these, in a recent cleaning attempt two legendary miners slipped on water on the catwalk and fell to their deaths in the obsidian mold.
Mob farming is not really a game mechanic. Mob farming uses many game mechanics to achieve a task of kill monsters for drops. To be honest it should stay as is. If you want to spend time to make a trap than go for it. If you think its over powered just do not build one it is as simple as that.
Let's see: You spend 30+ hours on a machine that you have to wait 6+ hours at a time to get a decent amount of TNT. Not quite gamebreaking, but a little OP, considering how hard mob farming with a sword is.
Specifically, I am saying Mob farming makes hunting items by hand obsolete; mob farming removes hand gathering as a strategic option. Balance here refers to the relative power of two strategic options. This is not about whether it effects the game. You are misusing balance here, and refuse to argue it.
I think this may be where the dichotomy in this thread stems from. As I see it, neither one becomes a "strategic" option until it is considered in the context of how it effects the game. When taken on it's own, it's meaningless.
Hey Trunkstroll, you have 305 posts in this thread, how do you feel?
-imagesnip-
Thanks, troll :smile.gif:
Also trunkstroll, how are your rainbow shark and barbs oh and I like your catfish too.
Oh and did you ever figure out how to "Graph a Parametric Polynomial based on a given set of points"?
Hey man, you know Bethesda is coming out with skyrim, and if you think Oblivion is dumbed down Morrowind, then Skyrim will be morrowind for retards.
Oh and before I forget
Lol nice music taste bro.
1
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[color=red]Mod edit: warned for flaming[color]
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Quote from A Minecraft Forum User »
OH THE INHUMANITY! PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD NOW! DARUDEBOI CAN'T HOLD THE TROLLS BACK ANY LONGER! [iapprove]
Hey Trunkstroll, you have 305 posts in this thread, how do you feel?
-imagesnip-
Thanks, troll :smile.gif:
Also trunkstroll, how are your rainbow shark and barbs oh and I like your catfish too.
Oh and did you ever figure out how to "Graph a Parametric Polynomial based on a given set of points"?
Hey man, you know Bethesda is coming out with skyrim, and if you think Oblivion is dumbed down Morrowind, then Skyrim will be morrowind for retards.
Oh and before I forget
Lol nice music taste bro.
1
-snip-
[color=red]Mod edit: warned for flaming[color]
You seriously felt the need to Google my name and come back here with your results? That's pathetic, honestly. Especially since I hadn't posted in the thread in a couple of days. I see you got your Just Desserts.
I've been pretty busy with my course load these past few days, so I didn't have any time to argue with anyone. Especially fun people like you.
Quote from The_Pastmaster »
Quote from DARUDEBOI »
Hey guys, if you think mob towers are overpowered, what about farming ingame mob dungeons?
I have a few of those. I put in a current that deliver the mobs to my iron door and then I kill them without harm.
You mean you have a grinder kill them or you are actually there, killing them by hand?
Quote from toki1776 »
Quote from mountainjor »
Specifically, I am saying Mob farming makes hunting items by hand obsolete; mob farming removes hand gathering as a strategic option. Balance here refers to the relative power of two strategic options. This is not about whether it effects the game. You are misusing balance here, and refuse to argue it.
I think this may be where the dichotomy in this thread stems from. As I see it, neither one becomes a "strategic" option until it is considered in the context of how it effects the game. When taken on it's own, it's meaningless.
The "strategy" in this case is "kill mobs for items." Thus the two 'strategic" methods- mob farming and mob hunting. You don't have to consider what you do with the items or what side of your base the sun sets on to compare two methods for killing mobs for items.
Quote from Deathviatar »
Let's see: You spend 30+ hours on a machine that you have to wait 6+ hours at a time to get a decent amount of TNT. Not quite gamebreaking, but a little OP, considering how hard mob farming with a sword is.
You spend 30+ hours on a machine that you can leave your character AFK at while you go off and do other things, then come back and POOF! you've got an inventory full of items. It's not gamebreaking, no, seeing as TNT is hard to get. It's kind of gamefixing, to be honest. But, the proper solution to the TNT problem would be that there should be more ways of getting sulfur or more ways of making TNT.
Assuming "you can play without food" means something like peaceful mode, and if it's a separate option from peaceful mode: mob farms take a big step towards becoming balanced. If playing without food is only enabled in peaceful mode, that would be cool.
Assuming "you can play without food" means something like peaceful mode, and if it's a separate option from peaceful mode: mob farms take a big step towards becoming balanced. If playing without food is only enabled in peaceful mode, that would be cool.
Not everyone will understand what this means in relevance to mob farms. At least I didn't do at first. Maybe because I just build the damned things, but never use them.
Having a need to eat will potentially prevent players from sitting afk in a trap for hours up on hours. They will eventually die if they don't eat. I like the change. It gives a good dimension to the survival part of the game. I couldn't care less about the effect it might have on mob farm usage, but I guess it kind of levels the field a bit.
If you could take your favorite (non Minecraft) Single Player Game which has hours upon hours of gameplay, but you could bypass it all with a weapon you recieved after ten minutes of play, would you do it? It doesn't effect anyone else, but it's a single player game, who cares? :tongue.gif:
If we're supposed to be farming mobs with automatic methods, then why do we have swords, bows, and armor? Mob farms are bypassing an game mechanic that Notch obviously intended for players to enjoy, which is killing **** by hand. SURVIVAL mode is meant to be survived, not put on autopilot.
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I hate stem cell research.
Those aborted fetus' are for eating, not helping people.
If you could take your favorite (non Minecraft) Single Player Game which has hours upon hours of gameplay, but you could bypass it all with a weapon you recieved after ten minutes of play, would you do it? It doesn't effect anyone else, but it's a single player game, who cares? :tongue.gif:
If we're supposed to be farming mobs with automatic methods, then why do we have swords, bows, and armor? Mob farms are bypassing an game mechanic that Notch obviously intended for players to enjoy, which is killing **** by hand. SURVIVAL mode is meant to be survived, not put on autopilot.
I have probably fought just as many mobs as you have. Head on with a sword. It's not like a mob farm instantly kill all mobs in all caverns or prevent spawns during the night. How often have you been out hunting creepers for the item drop? I had a stack of tnt before I built my first trap and that was solely from random encounters in the morning.
I must admit I dislike that the name of the game contains "Survival". Minecraft is so much more. I agree that the balance could have been pushed a little bit more towards survival, but I'm not sure I would play the game if survival were the only objective. I think having "survival" in the name is misleadning for new players and it distorts the expectations. Minecraft should be just that; "Minecraft", a mining, building, engeneering and survival game.
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Retired StaffHaha, Notch just responded to my question on the live stream just now:
What do you think about mob farms? Balanced or not? Blah blah. A bit more wordy.
I couldn't hear exactly, but from what I heard, he said that they want to start worrying about balance in multiplayer, but in single player... *shrugs*
I'll have to wait until I can watch the show in full after it's over so I can hear exactly what he said.
This is where many of us disagree. Frankly, since it uses existing game mechanics; it's fine where it is. Likewise, it doesn't matter if Notch didn't plan on it, because Notch wants emergence. He wants people to do things he doesn't expect.
Haha, that's gameplay balance he's talking about.
I agree we should all be friends. I try to be nice and not insult anyone; but please withdraw your feeble arguments. At least, you should define any new term you bring to a debate. No one said superior=imbalanced. strong/weak would be a better rewording; as this implies measurability and ... imbalance. Also you failed to respond to my suggestions for correcting your earlier post.
I would agree with this if you agree that balance is only materially important in the context of gameplay. That is why it is usually described in those terms. Also, to be friendly, we can agree that MC supports a great deal of imbalance.;D In summary:
Can we just agree that it's right that it's in the game but it's wrong that people use it? JK;D
Can't wait to heard it, wasn't there to see the show. This could help this problem be solve.
Notch hammer!
Mob farms are perfectly balanced in a PvP setting. Everyone can build one. You could even say that we finally have something that it is reasonable to defend. You can take everything else with you or have it stored in tiny hidden chests.
they're improperly using the word 'balance' but refuse to admit it.
what they mean is "the curve between mob hunting and mob farming is too steep".
Specifically, I am saying Mob farming makes hunting items by hand obsolete; mob farming removes hand gathering as a strategic option. Balance here refers to the relative power of two strategic options. This is not about whether it effects the game. You are misusing balance here, and refuse to argue it.
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Curse PremiumI think this may be where the dichotomy in this thread stems from. As I see it, neither one becomes a "strategic" option until it is considered in the context of how it effects the game. When taken on it's own, it's meaningless.
-imagesnip-
Thanks, troll :smile.gif:
Also trunkstroll, how are your rainbow shark and barbs oh and I like your catfish too.
Oh and did you ever figure out how to "Graph a Parametric Polynomial based on a given set of points"?
Hey man, you know Bethesda is coming out with skyrim, and if you think Oblivion is dumbed down Morrowind, then Skyrim will be morrowind for retards.
Oh and before I forget
Lol nice music taste bro.
1
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Retired StaffI have a few of those. I put in a current that deliver the mobs to my iron door and then I kill them without harm.
Venit, quessit, induravit.
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Retired StaffYou seriously felt the need to Google my name and come back here with your results? That's pathetic, honestly. Especially since I hadn't posted in the thread in a couple of days. I see you got your Just Desserts.
I've been pretty busy with my course load these past few days, so I didn't have any time to argue with anyone. Especially fun people like you.
You mean you have a grinder kill them or you are actually there, killing them by hand?
The "strategy" in this case is "kill mobs for items." Thus the two 'strategic" methods- mob farming and mob hunting. You don't have to consider what you do with the items or what side of your base the sun sets on to compare two methods for killing mobs for items.
You spend 30+ hours on a machine that you can leave your character AFK at while you go off and do other things, then come back and POOF! you've got an inventory full of items. It's not gamebreaking, no, seeing as TNT is hard to get. It's kind of gamefixing, to be honest. But, the proper solution to the TNT problem would be that there should be more ways of getting sulfur or more ways of making TNT.
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Retired StaffFrom: viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=187494
Assuming "you can play without food" means something like peaceful mode, and if it's a separate option from peaceful mode: mob farms take a big step towards becoming balanced. If playing without food is only enabled in peaceful mode, that would be cool.
Anyway by the time you get a full inventory, you can eat :biggrin.gif:
Not everyone will understand what this means in relevance to mob farms. At least I didn't do at first. Maybe because I just build the damned things, but never use them.
Having a need to eat will potentially prevent players from sitting afk in a trap for hours up on hours. They will eventually die if they don't eat. I like the change. It gives a good dimension to the survival part of the game. I couldn't care less about the effect it might have on mob farm usage, but I guess it kind of levels the field a bit.
If we're supposed to be farming mobs with automatic methods, then why do we have swords, bows, and armor? Mob farms are bypassing an game mechanic that Notch obviously intended for players to enjoy, which is killing **** by hand. SURVIVAL mode is meant to be survived, not put on autopilot.
I have probably fought just as many mobs as you have. Head on with a sword. It's not like a mob farm instantly kill all mobs in all caverns or prevent spawns during the night. How often have you been out hunting creepers for the item drop? I had a stack of tnt before I built my first trap and that was solely from random encounters in the morning.
I must admit I dislike that the name of the game contains "Survival". Minecraft is so much more. I agree that the balance could have been pushed a little bit more towards survival, but I'm not sure I would play the game if survival were the only objective. I think having "survival" in the name is misleadning for new players and it distorts the expectations. Minecraft should be just that; "Minecraft", a mining, building, engeneering and survival game.