Even if the calculations didn't impact performance..
I know I'm not the only one that doesn't believe they'd actually make the game more difficult. Someone earlier put it perfectly. Relighting torches is just a household chore. It isn't a question of game difficulty. It's a question of needless time sinks. Consider it. Torches do not light up much space at all. You have to use a lot even for a small space. No one ever really bothers to comment because torches are just so easy to make, and you can use them as a form of decoration if you're clever. Exploring caves? A stack of 64 goes up in smoke in no time flat. So okay, we all know you have to have a lot of torches. That's a lot of relighting. So maybe you only have to do it once in a good while. How many torches do you use? That's still that many you have to relight every time. That is going to make your patience disappear.
So I can prove it's just a plain time sink, but what about lack of difficulty? I don't think it would make anything more difficult. You can still have craploads of torches, and they don't go out in a few seconds. Your ability to light up and keep safe is not at all hampered, and you'll be swimming in lanterns as soon as you access whatever makes them anyway.
The moment you can reach the resource, the barrier disappears INSTANTLY. Till then you still have torches. Monsters still don't spawn any better in light. Till you get the lanterns, relighting is just a pain. Not a danger. Lanterns add nothing to the game other than "yet more things". Which isn't necessarily bad to have more things. I mean, keep torches permanent and give lanterns a much bigger area? I'm all for it. I'd like to decorate with lanterns instead of torches. Use less and probably look nicer. Yet no rush to get them. Luxury item.
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You tell me that you've heard every sound there is
And your bird can swing
But you can't hear me
You can't hear me
That's my problem with it though, I don't want more challenge the later stages at the cost of making it impossible to do anything in the early ones. Steel isn't TERRIBLY common in the early game, and flint and steel breaks extremely quickly. With torches burning out, I couldnt build anything of note, not even a fairly modest home, and be safe in it until I have gone to the nether and gather a sufficient amount of glowstone. At this point my gear is probably crap, so I'm ill equipped for the ghasts bombarding me.
Again, you're assuming that torches will be completely useless once they're finite, but we have no idea how long they will last, and I don't expect Notch to pick something like only a single minecraft day for them, since it would do exactly what you said. If you stick to exploring caves in the first few days in your new world, you'll hardly spend more than two minecraft days inside a single cave simply because your tools wont last you long enough to stay underground for several days and efficiently mine things anyway.
So, if I dont want my home blown up by a creeper I have two options.
A) Get glowstone
:cool.gif: Spend a lot of time, in some random intervals, re-lighting torches.
Regardless of the time intervals we're talking about here, thats incredibly annoying... I dont need home maintence chores in my game with LETHAL consequences if I decide I dont want to do them for a while...
Sigh.... The op is so wrong.
The fact is no one knows how lanterns will be crafted, how they will work, how long torches will last tor ANYTHING about them at all.
The wiki is all speculation none of it is fact. You can't debate or argue something WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT WILL WORK OR ANYTHING ABOUT IT!
The only thing we do know for certain is torches will burn out, and lanterns will last forever. That's it. And I think that would be a great addition to minecraft.
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Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
I can't give you an answer to the poll because I have a theory.
If you looked at the past updates you will see that everything was an option. This being important because if torches burn out, there would most likely be an option to stop that.
-Edit- didn't see Zaik's post... :sad.gif:
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Quote from NerdFail »
^this man is god.
Quote from bronzeprose »
my god i love you. that is wat im talking about!! but these twitter trolls wont stop!
Good to know Notch doesn't give a crap about whiners, also saying he will lose money is beyond stupid, NEWSFLASH you already paid for it Einstein(unless of course you pirated it, but then you would never buy it would you...), also I don't think people would stop buying it for things that make it more of a game and less of a glorified toy(what it is now).
About time this thing gets at least a little bit challenging.
edit: also I don't get it, people voting no are probably the ones that play it on peaceful (for whatever reason, imo if you play on peaceful you might as well just play mc classic, it's free too....), so what would change for these people if the torches started burning out on higher difficulties? absolutely nothing.
It depends on how the game would be balanced with the limitations of torches vs the availability of lanterns and its abilities. Because, as previously mentioned, if one of the requirements is Glowstone, then that means that people would need to work on getting the diamond and obsidian to traverse into the Nether.
Now, in my very short-lived experience, I've found those feats a bit difficult to come by as it is (mostly because I follow natural caverns rather than waste time digging straight down like a boss) due to monster spawning in darkness and having the added feat of trying to survive them and other terrain threats (water/lava). Considering you have to travel a good ways down, you would very periodically have to go back up for supplies before continuing your search, and having to basically redo it since torches running out not only means having to re-fight monsters, but also being able to re-find pathways you've already gone through. And suppose you finally have those materials (and you know how damn long it takes to mine Obsedian) and your torches run out, with you finding yourself standing against a potential hoard threatening your precious bounty. And lets not forget, if you do happen to die and your items scatter in a safe place, there is no guarantee you will be able to travel all the way down fast enough to retrieve them before they go 'poof'. And Glowstone as a rare resource and most of the time difficult to obtain in the Nether on its own.
Would having a lantern really be worth going through all of it? While providing infinite light, it is not prevalent as torches and I doubt would function any better than a torch for the everyday spelunker.
Good to know Notch doesn't give a crap about whiners, also saying he will lose money is beyond stupid, NEWSFLASH you already paid for it Einstein(unless of course you pirated it, but then you would never buy it would you...), also I don't think people would stop buying it for things that make it more of a game and less of a glorified toy(what it is now).
About time this thing gets at least a little bit challenging.
edit: also I don't get it, people voting no are probably the ones that play it on peaceful (for whatever reason, imo if you play on peaceful you might as well just play mc classic, it's free too....), so what would change for these people if the torches started burning out on higher difficulties? absolutely nothing.
I play on hard, so I care. That's WHY I voted no. I play minecraft BECAUSE it's a toy, I want to build. There are countless survival horror games that do the genre much better than minecraft. If torches burned out, and the only option was to get glowstone, it would disable me from building for extended periods every time I decide I want to start a new save. I like starting new saves, I like exploring new territory, I shouldnt have to build a nether gate immediately every time I want a house.
Good to know Notch doesn't give a crap about whiners, also saying he will lose money is beyond stupid, NEWSFLASH you already paid for it Einstein(unless of course you pirated it, but then you would never buy it would you...), also I don't think people would stop buying it for things that make it more of a game and less of a glorified toy(what it is now).
About time this thing gets at least a little bit challenging.
edit: also I don't get it, people voting no are probably the ones that play it on peaceful (for whatever reason, imo if you play on peaceful you might as well just play mc classic, it's free too....), so what would change for these people if the torches started burning out on higher difficulties? absolutely nothing.
I play on hard, so I care. That's WHY I voted no. I play minecraft BECAUSE it's a toy, I want to build. There are countless survival horror games that do the genre much better than minecraft. If torches burned out, and the only option was to get glowstone, it would disable me from building for extended periods every time I decide I want to start a new save. I like starting new saves, I like exploring new territory, I shouldnt have to build a nether gate immediately every time I want a house.
That's the thing. If minecraft is just a bucket of toys, IT gets boring. Look at gary's mod. Without structure games lose value.
Also, no one ever said it would require glowstone. Every single "fact" in this thread is speculation.
The only real facts are.
Torches will eventually burn out
Lanterns will be infinite.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
Good to know Notch doesn't give a crap about whiners, also saying he will lose money is beyond stupid, NEWSFLASH you already paid for it Einstein(unless of course you pirated it, but then you would never buy it would you...), also I don't think people would stop buying it for things that make it more of a game and less of a glorified toy(what it is now).
About time this thing gets at least a little bit challenging.
edit: also I don't get it, people voting no are probably the ones that play it on peaceful (for whatever reason, imo if you play on peaceful you might as well just play mc classic, it's free too....), so what would change for these people if the torches started burning out on higher difficulties? absolutely nothing.
I play on hard, so I care. That's WHY I voted no. I play minecraft BECAUSE it's a toy, I want to build. There are countless survival horror games that do the genre much better than minecraft. If torches burned out, and the only option was to get glowstone, it would disable me from building for extended periods every time I decide I want to start a new save. I like starting new saves, I like exploring new territory, I shouldnt have to build a nether gate immediately every time I want a house.
That's the thing. If minecraft is just a bucket of toys, IT gets boring. Look at gary's mod. Without structure games lose value.
Also, no one ever said it would require glowstone. Every single "fact" in this thread is speculation.
The only real facts are.
Torches will eventually burn out
Lanterns will be infinite.
The whole discussion at this point is speculative. A bunch of people think it will take glowstone, though that doesn't make it true. Either way, while making lanterns easy to acquire would eliminate the "unreasonable difficulty" argument, it doesn't change the fact that it adds more monotony than "challenge". It's just pointless, really. More types of mobs and more advanced AI (Boss monsters maybe?) would go a long way to adding challenge without adding a bunch of monotonous tasks to the game like re-lighting your torches. Also, it doesn't even seem certain that Notch will make lanterns at all at this point.
I don't know about this. No, if they're made out of Glowstone. I would either have to spend hours looking for three diamonds and then 10 obsidian and being raped repeatedly by creatures that spawned in an area I lit up a little while ago or INVedit it, which I only do on a certain save. If they were made out of an easier to get material, I would probably use them, but that would mean that either he would have to add another block or use lava. I guess lava works. Maybe something like
Would produce 10 or so lanterns, and you would get your bucket back.
Also, please stop calling people names or leaving nasty comments because some people don't like the idea. It's very immature. People can have their opinions.
EDIT: After reading through the pages a little more carefully, I changed my vote to no. My computer would explode with the amount of memory it has to use for the timers and such.
See now I don't think Notch is actually going to bother with lanterns anymore.
Reason?
1) He hasn't mentioned them since the Halloween update.
2) He added glowstone, which gives off level 15 light, the same as daylight, takes up one block and is placeable... meaning it's already a lantern.
If you think about it, lanterns have already been implemented... they're called glowstone.
EDIT: I should mention that I declined to vote, because this poll is lame.
That's the thing. If minecraft is just a bucket of toys, IT gets boring. Look at gary's mod. Without structure games lose value.
I saw an excellent minecraft review that actually made a comparison to Gary's Mod and reached the exact opposite conclusion as you. You ignore the one huge critical factor of Minecraft.
You cannot just poof any item you want into existence.
The game retains it's shine and value of being a sandbox because you have to earn every little bit of it. Even if you play on peaceful, you have to jump hoops to build anything elaborate. The effort IS the purpose and the structure. Minecraft already has it. It is nothing like Gary's Mod.
It would help if you also learned the definition of a fact. If Notch is still going to add in lanterns is as much speculation now as anything else. The only FACTS here are that he promised them AT ONE POINT. It is also a fact that he missed his own deadline for lanterns and has not breathed a word of them since. It is also a fact that he's added a lot of other things in the game between then and now, and nothing was stopping him from using the time he spent doing other things to add lanterns.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You tell me that you've heard every sound there is
And your bird can swing
But you can't hear me
You can't hear me
Originally, I wouldn't have mind it, because my base was rather small and I only h ad 5-10 torches down, east to relight right? That was a while ago, now I have stacks upon stacks of torches everywhere and the only thing I'll being doing if torches become limited is run around trying to relight them all, before the first one I relit burns out. I literally have thousands(okay more like a thousand...you get my point...) of torches planted down... If Notch made held torches emit light, I wouldn't be so sad at torches becoming limited.
I know I'm not the only one that doesn't believe they'd actually make the game more difficult. Someone earlier put it perfectly. Relighting torches is just a household chore. It isn't a question of game difficulty. It's a question of needless time sinks. Consider it. Torches do not light up much space at all. You have to use a lot even for a small space. No one ever really bothers to comment because torches are just so easy to make, and you can use them as a form of decoration if you're clever. Exploring caves? A stack of 64 goes up in smoke in no time flat. So okay, we all know you have to have a lot of torches. That's a lot of relighting. So maybe you only have to do it once in a good while. How many torches do you use? That's still that many you have to relight every time. That is going to make your patience disappear.
So I can prove it's just a plain time sink, but what about lack of difficulty? I don't think it would make anything more difficult. You can still have craploads of torches, and they don't go out in a few seconds. Your ability to light up and keep safe is not at all hampered, and you'll be swimming in lanterns as soon as you access whatever makes them anyway.
The moment you can reach the resource, the barrier disappears INSTANTLY. Till then you still have torches. Monsters still don't spawn any better in light. Till you get the lanterns, relighting is just a pain. Not a danger. Lanterns add nothing to the game other than "yet more things". Which isn't necessarily bad to have more things. I mean, keep torches permanent and give lanterns a much bigger area? I'm all for it. I'd like to decorate with lanterns instead of torches. Use less and probably look nicer. Yet no rush to get them. Luxury item.
And your bird can swing
But you can't hear me
You can't hear me
So, if I dont want my home blown up by a creeper I have two options.
A) Get glowstone
:cool.gif: Spend a lot of time, in some random intervals, re-lighting torches.
Regardless of the time intervals we're talking about here, thats incredibly annoying... I dont need home maintence chores in my game with LETHAL consequences if I decide I dont want to do them for a while...
The fact is no one knows how lanterns will be crafted, how they will work, how long torches will last tor ANYTHING about them at all.
The wiki is all speculation none of it is fact. You can't debate or argue something WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT WILL WORK OR ANYTHING ABOUT IT!
The only thing we do know for certain is torches will burn out, and lanterns will last forever. That's it. And I think that would be a great addition to minecraft.
If you looked at the past updates you will see that everything was an option. This being important because if torches burn out, there would most likely be an option to stop that.
-Edit- didn't see Zaik's post... :sad.gif:
-tP
Quoted for fear of my wooden palace.
I'm voting no.
Good to know Notch doesn't give a crap about whiners, also saying he will lose money is beyond stupid, NEWSFLASH you already paid for it Einstein(unless of course you pirated it, but then you would never buy it would you...), also I don't think people would stop buying it for things that make it more of a game and less of a glorified toy(what it is now).
About time this thing gets at least a little bit challenging.
edit: also I don't get it, people voting no are probably the ones that play it on peaceful (for whatever reason, imo if you play on peaceful you might as well just play mc classic, it's free too....), so what would change for these people if the torches started burning out on higher difficulties? absolutely nothing.
Now, in my very short-lived experience, I've found those feats a bit difficult to come by as it is (mostly because I follow natural caverns rather than waste time digging straight down like a boss) due to monster spawning in darkness and having the added feat of trying to survive them and other terrain threats (water/lava). Considering you have to travel a good ways down, you would very periodically have to go back up for supplies before continuing your search, and having to basically redo it since torches running out not only means having to re-fight monsters, but also being able to re-find pathways you've already gone through. And suppose you finally have those materials (and you know how damn long it takes to mine Obsedian) and your torches run out, with you finding yourself standing against a potential hoard threatening your precious bounty. And lets not forget, if you do happen to die and your items scatter in a safe place, there is no guarantee you will be able to travel all the way down fast enough to retrieve them before they go 'poof'. And Glowstone as a rare resource and most of the time difficult to obtain in the Nether on its own.
Would having a lantern really be worth going through all of it? While providing infinite light, it is not prevalent as torches and I doubt would function any better than a torch for the everyday spelunker.
I play on hard, so I care. That's WHY I voted no. I play minecraft BECAUSE it's a toy, I want to build. There are countless survival horror games that do the genre much better than minecraft. If torches burned out, and the only option was to get glowstone, it would disable me from building for extended periods every time I decide I want to start a new save. I like starting new saves, I like exploring new territory, I shouldnt have to build a nether gate immediately every time I want a house.
That's the thing. If minecraft is just a bucket of toys, IT gets boring. Look at gary's mod. Without structure games lose value.
Also, no one ever said it would require glowstone. Every single "fact" in this thread is speculation.
The only real facts are.
Torches will eventually burn out
Lanterns will be infinite.
The whole discussion at this point is speculative. A bunch of people think it will take glowstone, though that doesn't make it true. Either way, while making lanterns easy to acquire would eliminate the "unreasonable difficulty" argument, it doesn't change the fact that it adds more monotony than "challenge". It's just pointless, really. More types of mobs and more advanced AI (Boss monsters maybe?) would go a long way to adding challenge without adding a bunch of monotonous tasks to the game like re-lighting your torches. Also, it doesn't even seem certain that Notch will make lanterns at all at this point.
Would produce 10 or so lanterns, and you would get your bucket back.
Also, please stop calling people names or leaving nasty comments because some people don't like the idea. It's very immature. People can have their opinions.
EDIT: After reading through the pages a little more carefully, I changed my vote to no. My computer would explode with the amount of memory it has to use for the timers and such.
Reason?
1) He hasn't mentioned them since the Halloween update.
2) He added glowstone, which gives off level 15 light, the same as daylight, takes up one block and is placeable... meaning it's already a lantern.
If you think about it, lanterns have already been implemented... they're called glowstone.
EDIT: I should mention that I declined to vote, because this poll is lame.
Not true, you can create your obsidian. You only need a stone pickaxe to get iron ore, then use a bucket, lava, and water to create your gate.
Time consuming, and a mold needed, but not hard. Almost everything can be found on the surface
Lol by the time i made a mold i could probably find enough diamond to make 10 picks.
I saw an excellent minecraft review that actually made a comparison to Gary's Mod and reached the exact opposite conclusion as you. You ignore the one huge critical factor of Minecraft.
You cannot just poof any item you want into existence.
The game retains it's shine and value of being a sandbox because you have to earn every little bit of it. Even if you play on peaceful, you have to jump hoops to build anything elaborate. The effort IS the purpose and the structure. Minecraft already has it. It is nothing like Gary's Mod.
It would help if you also learned the definition of a fact. If Notch is still going to add in lanterns is as much speculation now as anything else. The only FACTS here are that he promised them AT ONE POINT. It is also a fact that he missed his own deadline for lanterns and has not breathed a word of them since. It is also a fact that he's added a lot of other things in the game between then and now, and nothing was stopping him from using the time he spent doing other things to add lanterns.
And your bird can swing
But you can't hear me
You can't hear me
Yes it is. Explore new parts of the Nether to find more Glowstone
No you don't. You need a bucket, dirt and a source of lava and water. People call it cast framing
Venit, quessit, induravit.