could you perhaps explain what you did to the carts (aka the conditions required) for such large momentum?
Sure!
Simplified, the conditions required for the large of a momentum (and it isn't infinite, eventually it will run out, but that's like saying the minecraft world will run out, so I don't think you should ever have issues with it) is a lot of built up energy. Going around a loop for a predetermined amount of time does that. That's why I have the button set up only to send you the cart when it's finished going around.
For the more elaborate explaination-
First, let me just relate some easily found info (aka the wiki). Mine carts can only accelerate up to 8 blocks (meters squared) per second, but they don't have an energy cap. When the energy is lost, you slow down. If you have too much energy (the momentum cap) for too long then the minecart will glitch out of existence. I needed to find away to make it reach close to the cap and then harness it.
If you think to the beginning of the video, I showed you the infinite loop as one of the ways to achieve perpetual motion. What happens there is that every time the minecart goes around the loop, it hasn't lost the energy gained, and therefore keeps increasing it's energy till it hits the energy limit and vanishes. So I set up a infinite loop, but put down a two way booster and two one way boosters so that way it's getting a lot of boost (exact numbers are on the wiki) compared to a normal loop. This allows me to hit the cap much quicker, making it so I don't need more loops. Down below, I have the redstone timer set up to allow me around 5 loops, and then reset the system.
The conditions required for the large of a momentum (and it isn't infinite, eventually it will run out, but that's like saying the minecraft world will run out, so I don't think you should ever have issues with it) is a lot of built up energy. Going around a loop for a predetermined amount of time does that. That's why I have the button set up only to send you the cart when it's finished going around.
I find this idea of yours absolutely excellent, though I don't have enough rails to justify building it. (Yet?)
If you want people to know exactly what you made, change the thread title.
Examples:
"One booster, Maximum speed, Final destination"
"The only booster you will ever need at your home base."
"Max power booster:Infinite distance."
Also, How much range do you get riding an up slope to the top of the world, at max speed?
Pretty cool idea you have there. Once I get around to expanding far enough to make minecarts useful I'm going to add one of these to my world. I will miss playing around with boosters though, but this solution simply makes too much sense - and should be plenty fun to build.
If you could throw up a video with the simplified redstone wiring that would be great. I'm sure I just need to take an afternoon and spend it playing around with redstone while the minecraft wiki is open to figure it out, but I still enjoy seeing the solutions other people come up with.
I'm looking forward to seeing how you solved the chunk unloading problem.
Looks really interesting. Let's see if I got this summarized correctly.
[*:2b6mlllg] an infinite loop builds up energy until it overflows and crashes the carts
[*:2b6mlllg] you reset the infinite loop just before this happens to maximize the energy of the cart
[*:2b6mlllg] a reset is performed by switching a track after a delay releasing the charged cart from the infinite loop onto an exit track
[*:2b6mlllg] the exit track releases the cart if it has been summoned, otherwise it drops it back onto the infinite loop draining its energy and restarting the loop
[*:2b6mlllg] the time of release is driven by a redstone binary counter which resets itself and the track when it reaches specified delay.
[*:2b6mlllg] to reduce the duration of such a boost cycle, the infinite loop utilizes two double boosters.
My question is, how exactly do you determine the moment of reaching the limit? I.e. how do you compute the proper delay for a given boost track?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
Okay, so I think the main problem is that people are looking at this and just seeing a normal booster system, just a simple cart recall thing. This is not so. This is a booster that will never stop....
That's the main problem there. I don't think people are willing to believe you can add momentum to a point where later subtraction of momentum results in no loss of momentum, ever.
That's the main problem there. I don't think people are willing to believe you can add momentum to a point where later subtraction of momentum results in no loss of momentum, ever.
What are you talking about? :S Of course the cart loses its momentum when it's reset. He's just saying that he's perfected the number of boosted loops to give the cart max energy without going over the point where it ends up resetting itself. That would mean that because it has max energy, once release you would need no boosters along the track itself.
I actually just realised that if the length of the track traveled by the cart is more than the max distance it can possibly travel holding max energy, then you would need boosters....
Also, @the8bitengineers:
Reading the wiki article on minecarts and minecart boosters, apparently the loss of energy of a minecart also depends on the current energy of the minecart. The more current energy, the faster the minecart loses energy. Your system imparting maximum energy implies that it would not be as efficient (distance / energy wise, not iron wise) as multiple boosters spread throughout the track.
The only issue I have with this system is that it's another system you need to have quick reflexes for to get on the cart (aka, the cart doesn't wait in position for you to get in).
You can have the cart "wait in motion". Lay down a small circular track (e.g. a 2 by 3 loop) with an incoming track and outgoing track. Hook the exit track to a stone pressure plate on the platform which closes the loop when stepped upon and opens the loop when not. As long as the player stands on the pressure plate the cart will circle in front of him, once he jumps in, the cart continues.
Add to that you can only have 1 cart charging up at once, or you have to make multiple "chargers", which wouldn't be very efficient.
As soon as you release the cart you can use a cart dispenser to load a new one. When returning a cart you just send it back into the dispenser. Still charges only one at a time, but the second one would be ready quite soon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
....however, I'll have to disagree on your title xD not quite "perfected" yet. The ultimate perfection would require a few experiments:
1) modeling the relation between length-of-booster vs. distance-traveled
2) counting the max length-of-booster before the system overflows
and then:
3) building a double system that puts the cart just under the max length-of-booster-before-overflow, and then sending it into a holding loop that adds just enough energy to keep the minecart at max energy, so that the player can just call it and hop in.
This looks like a nice weekend project...unless someone beats me to it. :|
The idea is good, and worth exploring more, but eventually the momentum will still run out. It may just take a long time. Saying that you won't ever need boosters is false.
Wow, lots of questions to answer. I'll try my best. I wont be tagging anyone in this post, I just hope to answer most of the question collectively.
1. Yes, people are absolutely correct- eventually this system will slow down. However, it is such an absurd distance from where you were boosted from that I can't imagine you having a station that far apart. Also, if you did, conventional boosters would take up so much track space and extra iron just getting there (trust me, on my several chunk long metro, where I'm solving dealing with the chunk issue, I have so many boosters it's ridiculous).
2. The reflex argument- solved. Already put in a system that you just sit and wait for it to take you away. It was the next logical step.
3. Also, it would be nearly simplistic to make a multiple cart system. Because the redstone is so messy, I'm reluctant to implement one here, but had I been more organized and cleaner, I'd simply s et it up to the new waiting system I made.
4. I'm making a video as we speak that does a few things. It shows you just how long this system will shoot you, it shows you how the redstone works in a nice clean fashion (though not connected to the actual track), it shows you the cart waiting system I put in, and it shows the simplified resetter.
5. What else... okay I'll edit the title to Near-Perfected. Happy? Also, I use the double double booster so it doesn't have to go around so many loops. The main reason it's only going around 5 times is so a person isn't just waiting for ages to get his cart. You could up it a few more times around the track, depending on your preferences.
6. Darquan related a few simple ways to get to this, and they would work just as well as the way's I did this.
7. Alright. let me make the new video and I'll post it up.
And to those of you who are going to be like "wtf this is stupid since you can't go forever, I'm just using boosters."
I hopped into a minecart right after finishing that last post, and it hasn't stopped. It's been a day and a night, and going into another another day.
This sounds nice and all. Cool you have an infinite amount of momentum without the need for boosters, but what's the point of having all that momentum. You said you have been going around for a Day and a Half going on another day now, but are you ever gonna get off? I thought the point of minecarts was to either transport treasure boxes to cargo areas or transporting players to various stations. And the only time where this would be absolutely necessary is if you create one ridiculously retarded long piece of track where you need a near infinite amount of momentum to get you from point a to point b. Does that sound like something you will ever need?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MOD EDIT: Saying this is unnecessary and rude. If people are willing to discuss it, let them discuss it. There's a whole wide world of other topics you could explore and contribute to that you might even be interested in! How exciting!
Fav Mod Edit Eva
Boosters, especially if you have a lot of stations, any distance, or just want to show off your word, are bulky and costly, iron wise. I'm just demonstrating that you would need a ridiculous long track to test the limit of this, and thus you would never need boosters for any situation.
Hey. Respect for the amount of work you've done to invent this. It's actually pretty cool, especially for longer metro systems. I might implement it myself.
3. Also, it would be nearly simplistic to make a multiple cart system. Because the redstone is so messy, I'm reluctant to implement one here, but had I been more organized and cleaner, I'd simply s et it up to the new waiting system I made.
Suggestion: place the minecart stack on the out-going track, use the cart you're riding to boost a new cart into the charger. Wouldn't that be a simple and effective solution? There's absolutely no redstone involved in that situation.
Edit: How dare I, I forgot to thank you for bringing us this new application, and addressing our questions. :biggrin.gif: So thanks!
I don't know what macro means, but could one with this system give a minecraft just enough speed to get to a station, so that the cart's energy runs out just at a station?
Well the whole point of "Perpetual motion" is a cart that wont run out till a very very very long time. If you want it to stop at another station, throw a pressure plate down and an empty space or two empty spaces, that should stop any minecart. Have that set up to another booster that takes the minecart away. Alternatively, make a loop at the station you want it to stop at, get off go do w.e, then come back and it should still be looping around, waiting. But I mean, if you want it to come to a complete stop perfectly where you want it too, you'd need a booster system really.
I find it funny that I agree with you- I reread a few of my posts after posting them and realized they sounded very... well you explicitly said how they sounded. I didn't have time to edit them when I realized this, so I apologize if I offended anyone. However, there were quite a few people who misunderstand what the purpose of the device was, so I tried to clear it up as much as possible. As for the "Perfection" part of the title, I thought I already changed that, but I guess it didn't take. It's would be more aptly named stabilized perpetual motion or something akin to that. I'm also trying to give as much info as possible, if you look at some of my posts explaining, and if you ask I'd be more than happy to clear it up. If you understand what the system is supposed to do or even have advice (you said this could be made with less resources and greater efficiency, I would like to hear how so I can include it) and you don't like it or find it absolutely useless, then I have no right to say you're wrong. As I type this, I am uploading a much more explanatory video, and shows how it could be useful. As I said, I'm sorry if I came out as arrogant or superior.
Sure!
Simplified, the conditions required for the large of a momentum (and it isn't infinite, eventually it will run out, but that's like saying the minecraft world will run out, so I don't think you should ever have issues with it) is a lot of built up energy. Going around a loop for a predetermined amount of time does that. That's why I have the button set up only to send you the cart when it's finished going around.
For the more elaborate explaination-
First, let me just relate some easily found info (aka the wiki). Mine carts can only accelerate up to 8 blocks (meters squared) per second, but they don't have an energy cap. When the energy is lost, you slow down. If you have too much energy (the momentum cap) for too long then the minecart will glitch out of existence. I needed to find away to make it reach close to the cap and then harness it.
If you think to the beginning of the video, I showed you the infinite loop as one of the ways to achieve perpetual motion. What happens there is that every time the minecart goes around the loop, it hasn't lost the energy gained, and therefore keeps increasing it's energy till it hits the energy limit and vanishes. So I set up a infinite loop, but put down a two way booster and two one way boosters so that way it's getting a lot of boost (exact numbers are on the wiki) compared to a normal loop. This allows me to hit the cap much quicker, making it so I don't need more loops. Down below, I have the redstone timer set up to allow me around 5 loops, and then reset the system.
The conditions required for the large of a momentum (and it isn't infinite, eventually it will run out, but that's like saying the minecraft world will run out, so I don't think you should ever have issues with it) is a lot of built up energy. Going around a loop for a predetermined amount of time does that. That's why I have the button set up only to send you the cart when it's finished going around.
Sorry for the long winded explanation
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
Is this helpful? Why not boosters? Sorry if this is a dumb question :tongue.gif:
Here is some bacon! [Bacon]
As a quick test, a video showing exactly how far the boosted minecart could travel without help from more boosters would help greatly.
Made by Me
If you want people to know exactly what you made, change the thread title.
Examples:
"One booster, Maximum speed, Final destination"
"The only booster you will ever need at your home base."
"Max power booster:Infinite distance."
Also, How much range do you get riding an up slope to the top of the world, at max speed?
How far do you fly?
If you could throw up a video with the simplified redstone wiring that would be great. I'm sure I just need to take an afternoon and spend it playing around with redstone while the minecraft wiki is open to figure it out, but I still enjoy seeing the solutions other people come up with.
I'm looking forward to seeing how you solved the chunk unloading problem.
[*:2b6mlllg] an infinite loop builds up energy until it overflows and crashes the carts
My question is, how exactly do you determine the moment of reaching the limit? I.e. how do you compute the proper delay for a given boost track?[*:2b6mlllg] you reset the infinite loop just before this happens to maximize the energy of the cart
[*:2b6mlllg] a reset is performed by switching a track after a delay releasing the charged cart from the infinite loop onto an exit track
[*:2b6mlllg] the exit track releases the cart if it has been summoned, otherwise it drops it back onto the infinite loop draining its energy and restarting the loop
[*:2b6mlllg] the time of release is driven by a redstone binary counter which resets itself and the track when it reaches specified delay.
[*:2b6mlllg] to reduce the duration of such a boost cycle, the infinite loop utilizes two double boosters.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
That's the main problem there. I don't think people are willing to believe you can add momentum to a point where later subtraction of momentum results in no loss of momentum, ever.
What are you talking about? :S Of course the cart loses its momentum when it's reset. He's just saying that he's perfected the number of boosted loops to give the cart max energy without going over the point where it ends up resetting itself. That would mean that because it has max energy, once release you would need no boosters along the track itself.
I actually just realised that if the length of the track traveled by the cart is more than the max distance it can possibly travel holding max energy, then you would need boosters....
Also, @the8bitengineers:
Reading the wiki article on minecarts and minecart boosters, apparently the loss of energy of a minecart also depends on the current energy of the minecart. The more current energy, the faster the minecart loses energy. Your system imparting maximum energy implies that it would not be as efficient (distance / energy wise, not iron wise) as multiple boosters spread throughout the track.
Made by Me
You can have the cart "wait in motion". Lay down a small circular track (e.g. a 2 by 3 loop) with an incoming track and outgoing track. Hook the exit track to a stone pressure plate on the platform which closes the loop when stepped upon and opens the loop when not. As long as the player stands on the pressure plate the cart will circle in front of him, once he jumps in, the cart continues.
As soon as you release the cart you can use a cart dispenser to load a new one. When returning a cart you just send it back into the dispenser. Still charges only one at a time, but the second one would be ready quite soon.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
....however, I'll have to disagree on your title xD not quite "perfected" yet. The ultimate perfection would require a few experiments:
1) modeling the relation between length-of-booster vs. distance-traveled
2) counting the max length-of-booster before the system overflows
and then:
3) building a double system that puts the cart just under the max length-of-booster-before-overflow, and then sending it into a holding loop that adds just enough energy to keep the minecart at max energy, so that the player can just call it and hop in.
This looks like a nice weekend project...unless someone beats me to it. :|
The idea is good, and worth exploring more, but eventually the momentum will still run out. It may just take a long time. Saying that you won't ever need boosters is false.
1. Yes, people are absolutely correct- eventually this system will slow down. However, it is such an absurd distance from where you were boosted from that I can't imagine you having a station that far apart. Also, if you did, conventional boosters would take up so much track space and extra iron just getting there (trust me, on my several chunk long metro, where I'm solving dealing with the chunk issue, I have so many boosters it's ridiculous).
2. The reflex argument- solved. Already put in a system that you just sit and wait for it to take you away. It was the next logical step.
3. Also, it would be nearly simplistic to make a multiple cart system. Because the redstone is so messy, I'm reluctant to implement one here, but had I been more organized and cleaner, I'd simply s et it up to the new waiting system I made.
4. I'm making a video as we speak that does a few things. It shows you just how long this system will shoot you, it shows you how the redstone works in a nice clean fashion (though not connected to the actual track), it shows you the cart waiting system I put in, and it shows the simplified resetter.
5. What else... okay I'll edit the title to Near-Perfected. Happy? Also, I use the double double booster so it doesn't have to go around so many loops. The main reason it's only going around 5 times is so a person isn't just waiting for ages to get his cart. You could up it a few more times around the track, depending on your preferences.
6. Darquan related a few simple ways to get to this, and they would work just as well as the way's I did this.
7. Alright. let me make the new video and I'll post it up.
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
I hopped into a minecart right after finishing that last post, and it hasn't stopped. It's been a day and a night, and going into another another day.
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
Fav Mod Edit Eva
Boosters, especially if you have a lot of stations, any distance, or just want to show off your word, are bulky and costly, iron wise. I'm just demonstrating that you would need a ridiculous long track to test the limit of this, and thus you would never need boosters for any situation.
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
Made by Me
Suggestion: place the minecart stack on the out-going track, use the cart you're riding to boost a new cart into the charger. Wouldn't that be a simple and effective solution? There's absolutely no redstone involved in that situation.
Edit: How dare I, I forgot to thank you for bringing us this new application, and addressing our questions. :biggrin.gif: So thanks!
Macro Economics makes my head go
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
Well the whole point of "Perpetual motion" is a cart that wont run out till a very very very long time. If you want it to stop at another station, throw a pressure plate down and an empty space or two empty spaces, that should stop any minecart. Have that set up to another booster that takes the minecart away. Alternatively, make a loop at the station you want it to stop at, get off go do w.e, then come back and it should still be looping around, waiting. But I mean, if you want it to come to a complete stop perfectly where you want it too, you'd need a booster system really.
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
I find it funny that I agree with you- I reread a few of my posts after posting them and realized they sounded very... well you explicitly said how they sounded. I didn't have time to edit them when I realized this, so I apologize if I offended anyone. However, there were quite a few people who misunderstand what the purpose of the device was, so I tried to clear it up as much as possible. As for the "Perfection" part of the title, I thought I already changed that, but I guess it didn't take. It's would be more aptly named stabilized perpetual motion or something akin to that. I'm also trying to give as much info as possible, if you look at some of my posts explaining, and if you ask I'd be more than happy to clear it up. If you understand what the system is supposed to do or even have advice (you said this could be made with less resources and greater efficiency, I would like to hear how so I can include it) and you don't like it or find it absolutely useless, then I have no right to say you're wrong. As I type this, I am uploading a much more explanatory video, and shows how it could be useful. As I said, I'm sorry if I came out as arrogant or superior.
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild