Here I will address the shitty argument that you guys have been churning out lately. Honestly, it's getting pretty annoying hearing this so frequently.
"IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T USE IT!"
Now, regardless of whether the new additions make the game easier or not, the "don't like, don't use" argument is full of ****. Challenge in a game should never be self-inflicted. Generally, it's the game's job to provide challenge, not the player's.
It's the whole reason we have difficulty settings. Peaceful is there for the builders, that's fine. But please, if something is making the game easy, the proper response is not to spurt "DUN LIEK DUN USE!" all over their faces, because it's a logically bankrupt argument (in a videogame, at least).
Remember that most games in the history of forever make things hard for the fun of it. If you have to provide your own damn challenge in the game, then your accomplishments will end up feeling artificial.
This is not your standard video game. This is a sandbox game, where it is up to the player how they want to play the game. builders use peaceful, because they use the game to make art. Others use easy or normal, to add a bit of a challenge to getting started as most people do. People come up with different game modes, such as Challenge 404, or the Pass it on underground. The don't like it, don't use it argument is very valid. If you don't like an update, pretend it doesn't exist, especially if it's additions, not changing existing features
You're right. I mean, I've never heard of a game doing well when the sandbox nature of it led the players to creating their own challenges. Why, I remember this little game, it was made by a fly-by-night developer, I can't remember what it was called. I think, yeah, let's go with the Pims. See, the Pims was this odd little game for PC in which you controlled this entire family of little people, mere simulacrums of people in a digital world, and they got sick, they got tired, and hungry, and you needed to take care of them. You even had to send them to the bathroom or they'd urinate on themselves. It was great fun, until you got into the later stages of the game, the little people could get jobs, and they'd start bringing in money, and soon enough, there wasn't enough of a challenge so it'd get boring.
The community took to coming up with specialized challenges to breathe some life in it, like you'd have to raise six grandchildren without reaching the top of a career, weird stuff like that. The company took to selling expansion packs every once in a while too, just to add new stuff, but it was mainly the challenge. I think they eventually made a sequel or too, but they mostly suffered from the same flaws and the community took to doing the same thing.
The game was just so open ended, you could win, well, almost as easily as burying yourself in the sand with a sturdy hat, so the parts of the community that wanted more of a challenge ignored those parts of the game that made it too easy.
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My Grandmother passed away on Sunday, the 7th of August, 2011. I am taking an extended leave of absence in light of this. My apologies.
Although I think a lot of people are overreacting to the whole bed thing, the "don't like it, don't use it" argument is extremely weak. I like to think what would happen if Notch added guns to the game. They would be unquestionably better than the bow and swords, along with being made of readily available materials (just as the bed is easily made and unquestionably better than just waiting). A lot of the people currently using that argument would come and complain about that, I'm sure, because it doesn't fit their playstyle. The sad part is, they would probably get the same "then don't use it" argument stuffed in their face.
It's just ridiculous how blind a large amount of this community is when it comes to understanding the way that other people play the game. These forums kind of make me think of a room full of 3rd graders who just cover their ears and scream constantly. Every so often a kid or two stops and tries to say something, but nobody can hear them anyways.
Disclaimer: I know Notch isn't adding guns, but it's an example that shows the two apparent sides to the argument; those who play minecraft for building, and those who play it for combat.
I have a friend who thinks that some of the most fun games on the planet are games that require you to master jumping patterns and kill you brutally and immediately for the slightest failure. Those games frustrate me to no end. I like games that allow enough leeway that you can actually explore and experience the game world without constantly being under threat of imminent death. I also like games that find ways to relieve me of the monotonous parts of the game once I get deeper in to things (like build queues and city governors). That's not to say I don't like enemies as a form of challenege, I just don't like games that more or less punish you for playing. If you do like games like that, more power to you, but don't expect other people to just agree with you that making things harder is almost always better.
tl;dr you are the one with the shitty argument.
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Quote from Adam222 »
So, yeah. Minecraft is kind of like walking into a high-class auction with top security and a solid reputation only to find out that everyone else in the room is a mugger. Who explodes.
there's arguments for both side. "The don't use it", is just simplifying what they'll get told anyway. In the long run, if it is something that can be easily ignored, then complaining about it will do nothing. I can guarantee mojan will not take the effort to remove beds, just because people don't like them. Others, such as myself, actually like them. If you are just a builder, then beds make it easier. you don't have to make torches, you can just go straight to what you like doing it the game, building.
Also, I don't think discriminating because of age is appropriate. It just shows you are as immature as all of the "3rd graders". There are many people that are just not as well educated as other people in literature, or maybe english is their second language, and the way they get their point across sounds much more immature
Seriously... I joined this random server, jumped into a bed, and right behind there was another player (will remain unnamed), but because of a glitch I was stuck in the bed and the other player got in with me. When my character woke up the next morning, instead of the fade from back, it faded from a red-ish tint and everyone knowns that wobbly effect from using a Nether portal? well my screen just kept doing that... and then a countdown started! My character ended up dying from AIDs... wtf right? Instead of the normal score, I got a -0xFF... I felt totally ashamed. Notch should remove the beds!
/ends shitty argument.
Seriously. Stop bitching OP, it's the internet and a fun game. Enjoy, and I make jokes at you for your shitty post.
I personally like the fact that Minecraft is so customizable. The whole "dont use it" argument has some merit here. Almost every feature in the game can be ignored, and the game will still be playable and enjoyable if you prefer the guidelines you set up.
Other games are not this customizable (For instance, if you dont like guns in CoD, try playing the game without them and see how far you get)
But Minecraft is. It has so many features that players can set up their own challenges. Its better this way. This is one of the few games that actually has freedom in the choice of how to play it.
Although I think a lot of people are overreacting to the whole bed thing, the "don't like it, don't use it" argument is extremely weak. I like to think what would happen if Notch added guns to the game. They would be unquestionably better than the bow and swords, along with being made of readily available materials (just as the bed is easily made and unquestionably better than just waiting). A lot of the people currently using that argument would come and complain about that, I'm sure, because it doesn't fit their playstyle. The sad part is, they would probably get the same "then don't use it" argument stuffed in their face.
It's just ridiculous how blind a large amount of this community is when it comes to understanding the way that other people play the game. These forums kind of make me think of a room full of 3rd graders who just cover their ears and scream constantly. Every so often a kid or two stops and tries to say something, but nobody can hear them anyways.
Disclaimer: I know Notch isn't adding guns, but it's an example that shows the two apparent sides to the argument; those who play minecraft for building, and those who play it for combat.
I wouldn't say that the issue is a lack of understand, but more of a lack of options. If it is to be simply considered two sides, you've got the Pro-Choice side and the Anti-Bed side, which kind of leaves one half in a lurch, as far as names go. The Pro-Choice side are happy with how things are, they don't want to take anything away from anyone, and in all honesty, the 1.3 update shouldn't have taken anything from anyone, whereas the Anti-Choice people want the beds nerfed, or taken out of the game. You've got one said that is saying "Eh, is okay." and another that wants to take something away from the community.
Essentially, at least in my opinion, the Anti-Choice folks just don't have much of an argument, because they are actively advocating for the removal or unnecessary nerfing of content from a game that we all paid for, whereas the Pro-Choice lot are asking them to simply adjust.
Another issue, which does relate to a lack of understanding is that many of the Anti-Choice people seem concerned with the vague concept of "the game" I.E "The first night of the game will be too easy with the bed" which completely overlooks many gameplay styles, and the fact, unless they've done a great deal of research, nobody that is actually experiencing their first night will know how to make a bed or why they should.
Personally, I didn't know about crafting until I'd owned the game for almost a week and I googled to find out what the quiver was for.
In the end, it doesn't matter, because everyone is only concerned about their game, but while one side wants to cost the other side actual content, the other is simply happy with how things are.
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My Grandmother passed away on Sunday, the 7th of August, 2011. I am taking an extended leave of absence in light of this. My apologies.
Also, I don't think discriminating because of age is appropriate. It just shows you are as immature as all of the "3rd graders". There are many people that are just not as well educated as other people in literature, or maybe english is their second language, and the way they get their point across sounds much more immature
Whoa, don't get me wrong here man. I wasn't trying to bash anybody or anything, I just said 3rd graders because most of the adults I know of don't constantly scream at the top of their lungs. However, I have met quite a few children of that age group that do almost exactly that. Their education has nothing to do with the amount of respect they show towards other people's opinions. I couldn't care less if the person saying "then don't use it" was from the U.S, Russia, or Nigeria. I don't care if they dropped out of highschool, or have their masters in aeronautical engineering.
It really doesn't matter, because regardless of who says it the argument still indirectly belittles the original problem. Rather than trying to figure out ways that beds could be changed in order to tailor to more playstyles, people just spew not to use them. That doesn't feel like the way forward to me.
Quote from judasremains »
I wouldn't say that the issue is a lack of understand, but more of a lack of options. If it is to be simply considered two sides, you've got the Pro-Choice side and the Anti-Bed side, which kind of leaves one half in a lurch, as far as names go. The Pro-Choice side are happy with how things are, they don't want to take anything away from anyone, and in all honesty, the 1.3 update shouldn't have taken anything from anyone, whereas the Anti-Choice people want the beds nerfed, or taken out of the game. You've got one said that is saying "Eh, is okay." and another that wants to take something away from the community.
Essentially, at least in my opinion, the Anti-Choice folks just don't have much of an argument, because they are actively advocating for the removal or unnecessary nerfing of content from a game that we all paid for, whereas the Pro-Choice lot are asking them to simply adjust.
Another issue, which does relate to a lack of understanding is that many of the Anti-Choice people seem concerned with the vague concept of "the game" I.E "The first night of the game will be too easy with the bed" which completely overlooks many gameplay styles, and the fact, unless they've done a great deal of research, nobody that is actually experiencing their first night will know how to make a bed or why they should.
Personally, I didn't know about crafting until I'd owned the game for almost a week and I googled to find out what the quiver was for.
In the end, it doesn't matter, because everyone is only concerned about their game, but while one side wants to cost the other side actual content, the other is simply happy with how things are.
Wow! Thanks for actually taking the time to come up with an intelligent response rather than just telling me to stuff it. I think you have a good point in saying that the anti-bed side is being quite a bit more aggressive, but I think that's for a good reason. If you think about it from their side, this kind of seems like a dangerous slope. Something gets implemented that you dislike, you make a logical (not all of them were, don't get me wrong there) post about why you dislike it, and you get told to adjust. What happens if Notch decides to get rid of mobs (I don't think that will happen)? Will they get told to simply adjust? I don't think that's fair.
I think one of the big problems comes from why Minecraft is so great: It's a true sandbox. There are so many different ways to play this game that every little addition has a ripple effect throughout all of them. In that respect, the two "sides" of the argument begin to blur. The only difference between them is that one likes this current update, and the other one doesn't. If we all just tell the side that doesn't like something to adjust, then nobody will be happy because everybody will eventually have things in the game that aren't fun for them.
It's very important, especially in the development of a game, to know how the playerbase feels about changes and to look for the best way to make everybody as happy as possible. I don't feel as if asking them to adjust is necessarily the best way to go about it.
An artist can work and work until they manage to win a prestigious award with their best work ever. After that one of two things tends to happen:
- Some will simply retire and bask in their victory. Perhaps that was their only goal or they just ran out of inspiration.
- Others will put the award on a shelf in their living room then start trying to make something even greater or entirely different. Maybe for the challenge or to fulfill continuing inspiration. Perhaps something else drives them.
Traditional MMOs and video games are designed for the first case. There are certain goal(s) built in and you head for them. You might have a number of ways to get there or extra challenges to attempt afterwards but ultimately the ending is a solid concept given to you by someone else.
Sandbox games and user-created worlds like Minecraft, Opensim and Second Life are designed for the second case. They are best suited for the person who wants to create endlessly. For some it's a very active muse, others its a self-imposed challenge. There are some who do it simply for the act of creating something in itself. There is no way to "win" unless you set a goal. There is no ending until you decide to stop.
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I wasn't having a go at you, and there is legitamacy in the young kids statement, but i just see it pointless to be put in there. You get sick of certain things after a while
If you don't like people's arguments, don't argue with them! You're just wasting your time.
Or maybe... you're playing minecraft and it's night so you're standing still holed up in a house and have come to the forum to convince everyone how terrible beds are while you wait for the sun to rise so it's safe to go out again.
[edit] Players are perfectly capable of choosing to go without torches, or go without mining stone or making stone tools (as I did once) in order to challenge themselves. What's so different about choosing to play a bedless game?
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Thread Ninja. Call me ED.
Quote from Tali »
Sssssshepard, the Creepersssss are ~ASssssssssUMING DIRECT CONTROL
I've seen you post this, more or less verbatim, in a number of such threads. Let's address your point.
Quote from Duba »
Although I think a lot of people are overreacting to the whole bed thing, the "don't like it, don't use it" argument is extremely weak. I like to think what would happen if Notch added guns to the game.
Hold on there, tiger. Guns and beds aren't even within earshot of the same tier of usefulness. A gun has numerous uses for making mob-hunting, survival and resource acquisition easier - the time a projectile takes to reach its target versus a bow, the power of the shot...taking a pairing where one option is clearly superior (guns vs. bows) and stacking it up against a purely subjective pair of choices (sleep in safety vs. wait for 10 minutes in safety) isn't viable. The extreme disparity between the two makes this a sensationalist argument, which isn't really a good way to make a point.
Quote from Duba »
They would be unquestionably better than the bow and swords, along with being made of readily available materials (just as the bed is easily made and unquestionably better than just waiting).
Alright, I'll bite. For the sake of argument, guns are hypothetically added right this minute. What makes anyone think that making one would be easy, or cheap? Any kind of firearm is complex, made of numerous small parts, and require ludicrous amounts of maintenance compared to - for example - a wooden door. Nearly every tool (save bows) degrade in this game, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that guns would too.
That said, there is a huge difference between "making the game easier" and "making the game less tedious, but ultimately no different." A bed is easily made, sure. Waiting 5 or so seconds instead of 10 minutes? Of course it's better, if you happen to not have anything to do in the dark. If you do, it doesn't matter anyway. A gun (assuming ease of acquisition) provides a clear, obvious choice for ranged combat for everyone, most especially in SMP servers where fighting can occur. The bed does no such thing.
Do you have things to do at night? Great, no bed. Do you prefer insomnia, watching for (or alternately, actively hunting) monsters? Great, no bed. Whatever the case, making a bed is a deliberate effort, which serves to eliminate the tedium of waiting for those who desire the option. It's also a snazzy bit of furniture. There are no other advantages. Monsters don't just suddenly disappear because of it, and even if they did, odds are the player trying to avoid monsters was playing on Peaceful anyway. I fail to see the problem with it.
Quote from Duba »
A lot of the people currently using that argument would come and complain about that, I'm sure, because it doesn't fit their playstyle. The sad part is, they would probably get the same "then don't use it" argument stuffed in their face.
I think you may be misunderstanding how the statement is being used, and/or taking it personally somehow. Your wording suggests hostility, but we'll put that aside for a moment.
Let's say guns went into the game tomorrow, and I didn't like them for some reason. You told me "don't like 'em? Don't use 'em." I would agree whole-heartedly, because not having guns up to this point hasn't adversely affected my play at all. Not a bit. Ignoring them is no different than doing what I was doing before. Others like them? Great. More power to them.
Quote from Duba »
It's just ridiculous how blind a large amount of this community is when it comes to understanding the way that other people play the game.
It's equally ridiculous that a vocal minority seem to think that the way others play a single-player sandbox is somehow relevant. It's also somewhat presumptuous to assume the mantle of authority on the One True Way™ to play a game that, by design, has no real objectives that aren't user-made. The gate swings both ways on this one, I'm afraid.
Quote from Duba »
These forums kind of make me think of a room full of 3rd graders who just cover their ears and scream constantly. Every so often a kid or two stops and tries to say something, but nobody can hear them anyways.
I'm sure that calling them names through the filter of passive-aggression is somehow more acceptable to you. Really, any sort of mud-slinging isn't conducive to making a point - it only serves to anger those you're trying to convince.
Quote from Duba »
Disclaimer: I know Notch isn't adding guns, but it's an example that shows the two apparent sides to the argument; those who play minecraft for building, and those who play it for combat.
Wait...since when did the dislike of beds stem from combat-oriented players? Unless I'm mistaken, the most vocal detractors have been those under the belief that Minecraft is some sort of realist survival-horror game, and feel that beds somehow rob them of that aspect of the game. Still, combat and surival-horror - The two aren't mutually inclusive.
I'm sure you mean well with your gun analogy, but it's a flawed argument.
Sorry OP. I've read enough threads on here now to realise that as fantastic as the game is, the community is full of people who are either unintelligent or arrogant. That is of course excluding the very talented modders and texturers, and of course the reasonably small percentage of you that break the norm. (The poster above me for example has shown a well-constructed and valid argument against what you're saying. Kudos to him.)
I agree with you though, for the record.
I'm just gonna say this; Either lay off the beds, or lay on them.
The grand nocturnal ultimatum of Mine Craft.
I really don't get these anti-bed type people that treat this game like it is a proper survival game, it's not despite the name of the mode.
Even before the beds introduction the survival aspect of this game was very very limited in challenge if there was any to begin with. It was as simple as build furiously for 10 mins of day then as it gets dark rush off to the house to stare out the window at zombies for another 10 mins. You could mine at night but you are in the same level of safety depending on your mining technique. That is unless you come across a cavern but you can wall it up. Even before beds you still had to artificially make the game harder by say not holing yourself up in a little dirt shack actually going out and fighting or going in to caverns. So in that case the 'don't like it don't use it' actually goes in to you Bare Grylls wannabes favor. If caverns are too hard for them then they don't go in to the caverns.
But pro bed advocates don't like beds because of how it makes the game easier they like how it removes a boring part of the game (for them).
I don't know why you survival buffs like this game, it ****ing sucks as a survival simulator I mean utterly sucks like toothless mature 10 cent hooker. The bed makes it suck a little more as a survival game but not by much more. Buy FO; NV, Stalker or Metro I'm sure you will find them more fun.
Minecraft however is just digital lego with undead, arachnids and exploding cactus dicks... No intense survival game play here folks never was, never will be.
Beds rock! Better then sleeping in the hard uncomfortable forums for 10 mins.
Wrong. The game does indeed make the rules. It gives us what we can place, what we can build, how we interact with the world of Minecraft and how it interacts with us as players.
The "don't like it don't use it" argument, is valid for something like Lapis Lazuli. It's purely decorative, giving builders a new option without getting in the way of people who don't like it. Beds on the other hand (which I assume is the object most brought into play during these kinds of arguments) is giving those of us who want a challenge a way to completely skip that added difficulty of having Creepers and angry Spiders hang about in the morning. (Look, I actually love the beds and don't believe a word of that, this is just an example.)
It gives us something that actively removes potential challenge, where Lapis Lazuli is just an aesthetic.
If in Halo, there was a button that throws a mega-volcano-grenade destroying all life except that of your own and of your team's, the same thing would apply. You can't say "if you don't like it don't use it". It's just an option that shouldn't be in the game.
(Again, I love beds. Just an example folks.)
How about:
>Don't like it.
>Find out if others share your dislike of it.
>Find out if your fellow haters are great in number.
>If so, bring attention to a developer if possible, or at least make a suggestions thread that proposes a favourable alternative.
>If not, accept that you are in the minority and Minecraft must always attempt to please the majority.
"IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T USE IT!"
Now, regardless of whether the new additions make the game easier or not, the "don't like, don't use" argument is full of ****. Challenge in a game should never be self-inflicted. Generally, it's the game's job to provide challenge, not the player's.
It's the whole reason we have difficulty settings. Peaceful is there for the builders, that's fine. But please, if something is making the game easy, the proper response is not to spurt "DUN LIEK DUN USE!" all over their faces, because it's a logically bankrupt argument (in a videogame, at least).
Remember that most games in the history of forever make things hard for the fun of it. If you have to provide your own damn challenge in the game, then your accomplishments will end up feeling artificial.
Gimme
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The community took to coming up with specialized challenges to breathe some life in it, like you'd have to raise six grandchildren without reaching the top of a career, weird stuff like that. The company took to selling expansion packs every once in a while too, just to add new stuff, but it was mainly the challenge. I think they eventually made a sequel or too, but they mostly suffered from the same flaws and the community took to doing the same thing.
The game was just so open ended, you could win, well, almost as easily as burying yourself in the sand with a sturdy hat, so the parts of the community that wanted more of a challenge ignored those parts of the game that made it too easy.
It's just ridiculous how blind a large amount of this community is when it comes to understanding the way that other people play the game. These forums kind of make me think of a room full of 3rd graders who just cover their ears and scream constantly. Every so often a kid or two stops and tries to say something, but nobody can hear them anyways.
Disclaimer: I know Notch isn't adding guns, but it's an example that shows the two apparent sides to the argument; those who play minecraft for building, and those who play it for combat.
tl;dr you are the one with the shitty argument.
Also, I don't think discriminating because of age is appropriate. It just shows you are as immature as all of the "3rd graders". There are many people that are just not as well educated as other people in literature, or maybe english is their second language, and the way they get their point across sounds much more immature
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Seriously... I joined this random server, jumped into a bed, and right behind there was another player (will remain unnamed), but because of a glitch I was stuck in the bed and the other player got in with me. When my character woke up the next morning, instead of the fade from back, it faded from a red-ish tint and everyone knowns that wobbly effect from using a Nether portal? well my screen just kept doing that... and then a countdown started! My character ended up dying from AIDs... wtf right? Instead of the normal score, I got a -0xFF... I felt totally ashamed. Notch should remove the beds!
/ends shitty argument.
Seriously. Stop bitching OP, it's the internet and a fun game. Enjoy, and I make jokes at you for your shitty post.
Other games are not this customizable (For instance, if you dont like guns in CoD, try playing the game without them and see how far you get)
But Minecraft is. It has so many features that players can set up their own challenges. Its better this way. This is one of the few games that actually has freedom in the choice of how to play it.
I wouldn't say that the issue is a lack of understand, but more of a lack of options. If it is to be simply considered two sides, you've got the Pro-Choice side and the Anti-Bed side, which kind of leaves one half in a lurch, as far as names go. The Pro-Choice side are happy with how things are, they don't want to take anything away from anyone, and in all honesty, the 1.3 update shouldn't have taken anything from anyone, whereas the Anti-Choice people want the beds nerfed, or taken out of the game. You've got one said that is saying "Eh, is okay." and another that wants to take something away from the community.
Essentially, at least in my opinion, the Anti-Choice folks just don't have much of an argument, because they are actively advocating for the removal or unnecessary nerfing of content from a game that we all paid for, whereas the Pro-Choice lot are asking them to simply adjust.
Another issue, which does relate to a lack of understanding is that many of the Anti-Choice people seem concerned with the vague concept of "the game" I.E "The first night of the game will be too easy with the bed" which completely overlooks many gameplay styles, and the fact, unless they've done a great deal of research, nobody that is actually experiencing their first night will know how to make a bed or why they should.
Personally, I didn't know about crafting until I'd owned the game for almost a week and I googled to find out what the quiver was for.
In the end, it doesn't matter, because everyone is only concerned about their game, but while one side wants to cost the other side actual content, the other is simply happy with how things are.
Whoa, don't get me wrong here man. I wasn't trying to bash anybody or anything, I just said 3rd graders because most of the adults I know of don't constantly scream at the top of their lungs. However, I have met quite a few children of that age group that do almost exactly that. Their education has nothing to do with the amount of respect they show towards other people's opinions. I couldn't care less if the person saying "then don't use it" was from the U.S, Russia, or Nigeria. I don't care if they dropped out of highschool, or have their masters in aeronautical engineering.
It really doesn't matter, because regardless of who says it the argument still indirectly belittles the original problem. Rather than trying to figure out ways that beds could be changed in order to tailor to more playstyles, people just spew not to use them. That doesn't feel like the way forward to me.
Wow! Thanks for actually taking the time to come up with an intelligent response rather than just telling me to stuff it. I think you have a good point in saying that the anti-bed side is being quite a bit more aggressive, but I think that's for a good reason. If you think about it from their side, this kind of seems like a dangerous slope. Something gets implemented that you dislike, you make a logical (not all of them were, don't get me wrong there) post about why you dislike it, and you get told to adjust. What happens if Notch decides to get rid of mobs (I don't think that will happen)? Will they get told to simply adjust? I don't think that's fair.
I think one of the big problems comes from why Minecraft is so great: It's a true sandbox. There are so many different ways to play this game that every little addition has a ripple effect throughout all of them. In that respect, the two "sides" of the argument begin to blur. The only difference between them is that one likes this current update, and the other one doesn't. If we all just tell the side that doesn't like something to adjust, then nobody will be happy because everybody will eventually have things in the game that aren't fun for them.
It's very important, especially in the development of a game, to know how the playerbase feels about changes and to look for the best way to make everybody as happy as possible. I don't feel as if asking them to adjust is necessarily the best way to go about it.
- Some will simply retire and bask in their victory. Perhaps that was their only goal or they just ran out of inspiration.
- Others will put the award on a shelf in their living room then start trying to make something even greater or entirely different. Maybe for the challenge or to fulfill continuing inspiration. Perhaps something else drives them.
Traditional MMOs and video games are designed for the first case. There are certain goal(s) built in and you head for them. You might have a number of ways to get there or extra challenges to attempt afterwards but ultimately the ending is a solid concept given to you by someone else.
Sandbox games and user-created worlds like Minecraft, Opensim and Second Life are designed for the second case. They are best suited for the person who wants to create endlessly. For some it's a very active muse, others its a self-imposed challenge. There are some who do it simply for the act of creating something in itself. There is no way to "win" unless you set a goal. There is no ending until you decide to stop.
My Spigot/CraftBukkit plugins:
TallNether - Generate a 256-block high nether
FarLandsAgain - Restores the Far Lands
User: *BOOM* You're dead.
Cleverbot: I divide by zero and come back as an angel ninja.
Edit:
Too lazy to put quotes
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Or maybe... you're playing minecraft and it's night so you're standing still holed up in a house and have come to the forum to convince everyone how terrible beds are while you wait for the sun to rise so it's safe to go out again.
[edit] Players are perfectly capable of choosing to go without torches, or go without mining stone or making stone tools (as I did once) in order to challenge themselves. What's so different about choosing to play a bedless game?
Hold on there, tiger. Guns and beds aren't even within earshot of the same tier of usefulness. A gun has numerous uses for making mob-hunting, survival and resource acquisition easier - the time a projectile takes to reach its target versus a bow, the power of the shot...taking a pairing where one option is clearly superior (guns vs. bows) and stacking it up against a purely subjective pair of choices (sleep in safety vs. wait for 10 minutes in safety) isn't viable. The extreme disparity between the two makes this a sensationalist argument, which isn't really a good way to make a point.
Alright, I'll bite. For the sake of argument, guns are hypothetically added right this minute. What makes anyone think that making one would be easy, or cheap? Any kind of firearm is complex, made of numerous small parts, and require ludicrous amounts of maintenance compared to - for example - a wooden door. Nearly every tool (save bows) degrade in this game, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that guns would too.
That said, there is a huge difference between "making the game easier" and "making the game less tedious, but ultimately no different." A bed is easily made, sure. Waiting 5 or so seconds instead of 10 minutes? Of course it's better, if you happen to not have anything to do in the dark. If you do, it doesn't matter anyway. A gun (assuming ease of acquisition) provides a clear, obvious choice for ranged combat for everyone, most especially in SMP servers where fighting can occur. The bed does no such thing.
Do you have things to do at night? Great, no bed. Do you prefer insomnia, watching for (or alternately, actively hunting) monsters? Great, no bed. Whatever the case, making a bed is a deliberate effort, which serves to eliminate the tedium of waiting for those who desire the option. It's also a snazzy bit of furniture. There are no other advantages. Monsters don't just suddenly disappear because of it, and even if they did, odds are the player trying to avoid monsters was playing on Peaceful anyway. I fail to see the problem with it.
I think you may be misunderstanding how the statement is being used, and/or taking it personally somehow. Your wording suggests hostility, but we'll put that aside for a moment.
Let's say guns went into the game tomorrow, and I didn't like them for some reason. You told me "don't like 'em? Don't use 'em." I would agree whole-heartedly, because not having guns up to this point hasn't adversely affected my play at all. Not a bit. Ignoring them is no different than doing what I was doing before. Others like them? Great. More power to them.
It's equally ridiculous that a vocal minority seem to think that the way others play a single-player sandbox is somehow relevant. It's also somewhat presumptuous to assume the mantle of authority on the One True Way™ to play a game that, by design, has no real objectives that aren't user-made. The gate swings both ways on this one, I'm afraid.
I'm sure that calling them names through the filter of passive-aggression is somehow more acceptable to you. Really, any sort of mud-slinging isn't conducive to making a point - it only serves to anger those you're trying to convince.
Wait...since when did the dislike of beds stem from combat-oriented players? Unless I'm mistaken, the most vocal detractors have been those under the belief that Minecraft is some sort of realist survival-horror game, and feel that beds somehow rob them of that aspect of the game. Still, combat and surival-horror - The two aren't mutually inclusive.
I'm sure you mean well with your gun analogy, but it's a flawed argument.
I agree with you though, for the record.
The grand nocturnal ultimatum of Mine Craft.
I really don't get these anti-bed type people that treat this game like it is a proper survival game, it's not despite the name of the mode.
Even before the beds introduction the survival aspect of this game was very very limited in challenge if there was any to begin with. It was as simple as build furiously for 10 mins of day then as it gets dark rush off to the house to stare out the window at zombies for another 10 mins. You could mine at night but you are in the same level of safety depending on your mining technique. That is unless you come across a cavern but you can wall it up. Even before beds you still had to artificially make the game harder by say not holing yourself up in a little dirt shack actually going out and fighting or going in to caverns. So in that case the 'don't like it don't use it' actually goes in to you Bare Grylls wannabes favor. If caverns are too hard for them then they don't go in to the caverns.
But pro bed advocates don't like beds because of how it makes the game easier they like how it removes a boring part of the game (for them).
I don't know why you survival buffs like this game, it ****ing sucks as a survival simulator I mean utterly sucks like toothless mature 10 cent hooker. The bed makes it suck a little more as a survival game but not by much more. Buy FO; NV, Stalker or Metro I'm sure you will find them more fun.
Minecraft however is just digital lego with undead, arachnids and exploding cactus dicks... No intense survival game play here folks never was, never will be.
Beds rock! Better then sleeping in the hard uncomfortable forums for 10 mins.
The "don't like it don't use it" argument, is valid for something like Lapis Lazuli. It's purely decorative, giving builders a new option without getting in the way of people who don't like it. Beds on the other hand (which I assume is the object most brought into play during these kinds of arguments) is giving those of us who want a challenge a way to completely skip that added difficulty of having Creepers and angry Spiders hang about in the morning. (Look, I actually love the beds and don't believe a word of that, this is just an example.)
It gives us something that actively removes potential challenge, where Lapis Lazuli is just an aesthetic.
If in Halo, there was a button that throws a mega-volcano-grenade destroying all life except that of your own and of your team's, the same thing would apply. You can't say "if you don't like it don't use it". It's just an option that shouldn't be in the game.
(Again, I love beds. Just an example folks.)
>Don't like it.
>Find out if others share your dislike of it.
>Find out if your fellow haters are great in number.
>If so, bring attention to a developer if possible, or at least make a suggestions thread that proposes a favourable alternative.
>If not, accept that you are in the minority and Minecraft must always attempt to please the majority.