You're still capable of attacking from one, right?
He did make it pretty clear in the original post already, you can attack but it doesn't make you invincible... dogfights would probably be more possible than just flying around killing ground mobs or other players from the sky.
More possible?
And we ought to add a hostile flying mob(or a couple) in the overworld if we're going to fly in it.
What Papertiger means is that:
It would be quite difficult to be effective in combat vs. a ground target if you are mounted on a Gryphon. You would have very limited mobility. You would actually be vulnerable to things such as zombies, creepers, skeletons, spiders and other players (While landed/at ground level). Where as if you were to fight another player who was also on a Gryphon in the air (Dogfight!), it would be a much more balanced fight because both of you would be limited by the same maneuverability constraints yet you'd both be able to take advantage of the Gryphon's powers of flight and altitude!
Although our idea of Minecraft Gryphon's main purpose is for flying transportation, and not for combat, i like the idea of two Gryphon riders having a Dogfight/Sky duel. It would be a very intereresting thing to see.
As for hostile flying mobs... The suggestion forum rules say you are only supposed to have one suggestion per thread so i'm not going to comment on that, sorry.
I'm more worried about bombing with splash potions. Or strafing with arrows.
Another thing. Instead of having you just go up when you hit space, you do this:
The Griffon can pitch up and down(and rolls a bit to turn, but that's mostly visual). It loses speed pitched up(and less so straight, but still there) and gains it going down. The amount you can pitch up depends on speed, so if you go without flapping for too long, you will have to pitch down eventually(no stall, though).
Pressing space flaps the wings, which speeds you up in the direction you're facing. So you speed up your descent if you flap while pitched down but you still can pitch up afterward while retaining speed, though.
Furthermore, flapping takes away from your griffon's hunger. So you'll be forced to land when your griffon gets puckered out.
Full support, also +1 rep for spelling it the old way (Gryphon, not Griffin).
I think combat here needs to be addressed. Lets face it, a gryphon is a predator. It has talons like an eagle.
As previously commented, a there should be wild adult(s) guarding the nests. Untaimable, and quite difficult to kill.
Health: The gryphon is a very powerful creature, so they should be perhaps 1/4-1/2 as much health as the ender dragon.
Damage: They would deal some melee damage (big talons guys) when they hit you head on, as well as considerable knock back.
Fighting style: Similar to the dragon, they would fly high, then dive at the opponent. However I think they should have a much steeper/quicker decent, as they are far smaller and more agile.
Tamed: While I understand the need for balance, I do not think some melee damage would be a big problem. Basically you could emulate the same attacks that wild gryphons use. Hitting an opponent head on (you strike with the head, not wings) would deal melee/knock back, with higher damage for a higher speed, and no damage under some threshold (prevent accidental damage, forces you to speed up).
Now the balance here is actually quite good. Your attack is slow, while each hit may be ~= to a diamond sword, the rate of your strikes is reduced by needing to regain altitude/speed. You also are at the disadvantage in power, as your gryphons attack scales based on speed, but even at top speed it would be unable to one-shot an armored opponent. However the ground based defender can swing a sword of great power, and lose arrows at you on approach. Plus they can simply dodge as they would the dragon. And while you are coming back around they may use potions/food to regenerate.
Now you can hedge your bets, speed and strength potions would make you able to deal greater damage, and healing/re-gen works just as well on the gryphon as any other mob. However you would be far better of simply dismounting and attacking on foot.
Which brings up a point: There should be a quick way to dismount. A simple right-click is no good, as it would be to easy to fall off, unless perhaps there was a smaller hit-box for dismount (such as a small part of the saddle that is only visible when looking directly down at it). However it would be done you would fall to the ground (and if you are doing it right, or have feather falling this is okay) and the gryphon would loop around to find a nearby landing place. It would not attack on its own, and if attacked it would simply take off and loop around to find another place to land. The intelligence of this action may also possibly keep it flying until the attacker is gone/appears uninterested. It may also avoid monsters automatically, regardless of attacks.
I would point out that to properly deal with health, a well fed gryphon would regenerate just as the player dose, though the amount of food required to keep it healthy would be far higher. And it would begin to starve, and potentially die if not fed. This ads even greater balance, as the player must continue to feed the gryphon as well as themselves.
And a point on crashing:
There would be, essentially, 3 speed tiers. The first is very slow, and incapable of flight. At speeds below a certain point you can not fly without constant flapping, and this would be strictly vertical. To maintain such a speed the player would need to look directly down/up and flap. Without the flapping the gryphon will slow fall, and eventually land without taking fall damage. Hitting blocks will simply stop all forward momentum. You can not flap if you are too close to blocks.
The second is just barley fast enough to keep in the air, and glide at high altitude. This speed is too low to cause melee damage, and if you hit the ground you will simply land and not take damage. However hitting blocks from the side will cause minor damage/slow you down.
The third is true flight speed, anything from this point till max speed can cause melee damage, and colliding with any block will deal damage to the gryphon (and possibly you) and possibly knock you off.. At this speed hitting the ground could kill your mount, or even yourself. Thus diving at an opponent is risky, as a miscalculation could do you more damage then them.
I like the detail and the idea. However I was wondering what you meant by "[taking] the egg" from the nest. I think it would be cool if you had to remove it the same way you remove the dragon egg in the end. That would add another thing that players would have to do. Players would have to be prepared to find the nest not just stumble upon it and break the egg.
Great work, again I'm stunned. Balanced, and yet such a great scout. I see potential for PvP scouting, SSP, SMP freebuild. There are so many possibilities, and the way you though about them...
This deserves at least 100 rep points. Minimum.
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I support this. Never seen such a well-balanced and detailed suggestion here before.
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Full support, also +1 rep for spelling it the old way (Gryphon, not Griffin).
I think combat here needs to be addressed...
Haha thanks... I've always like that way of spelling it best =D
You have so much good suggestions here i don't really know where to start. The idea of being able to melee attack/ram/trample with the Gryphon is interesting especially. I'm not sure if i adressed it in my original post but i kinda imagined the player being unable to run while on a Gryphon. Only fly/hop around... To add to the balance. Plus theres already pigs for that. But maybe i was wrong.
And haha yeahhh i know Gryphons would be a fierce predetor. Eagle + Lion = oh crap. Hm... Your post has made me rethink some things.
I like the detail and the idea. However I was wondering what you meant by "[taking] the egg" from the nest...
I guess i just imagined the player hitting the Egg block with a mining pick or something. And honestly, i have yet to see the enderdragon or it's egg yet... So i'm afraid i don't know what you mean =(
I support. Now, I know I'll be almost crucified for saying this, but this could be used for maybe dragon mounts...? Like red dragon...?
Ahaha i myself am a huge fan of dragons. I have played WAYYYyyyy too much Skyrim. However, suggestion topics are supposed to be limited to one suggestion per thread... I can't comment on this one way or another. Sorry.
Great work, again I'm stunned. Balanced, and yet such a great scout. I see potential for PvP scouting, SSP, SMP freebuild. There are so many possibilities, and the way you though about them...
This deserves at least 100 rep points. Minimum.
Thank you!!! No offense taken lol!
YES! A scout is kinda what i had in mind for this mount. In a perfect world, a Minecraft Gryphon would mostly be used for travel and scouting. Imho.
Haha thanks... I've always like that way of spelling it best =D
You have so much good suggestions here i don't really know where to start. The idea of being able to melee attack/ram/trample with the Gryphon is interesting especially. I'm not sure if i adressed it in my original post but i kinda imagined the player being unable to run while on a Gryphon. Only fly/hop around... To add to the balance. Plus theres already pigs for that. But maybe i was wrong.
And haha yeahhh i know Gryphons would be a fierce predetor. Eagle + Lion = oh crap. Hm... Your post has made me rethink some things.
I guess i just imagined the player hitting the Egg block with a mining pick or something. And honestly, i have yet to see the enderdragon or it's egg yet... So i'm afraid i don't know what you mean =(
Well my though was not running around in it, but diving at the enemy, it's risky, as you may crash, but it would deal melee+knockback.
As for the egg, the dragon egg is spawned into the world on top of the exit ender portal. It can not be mined, however as it is a tile entity, and it has physics, it can be forcibly "poped off" either with a piston, or by dropping it on a torch. Basically, you really have to try to get it to drop. The gryphon egg should be the same.I would also suggest that if you hold shift, it would tuck the wings, making you fall faster (potentially you could take fall damage) and it would allow for tighter high speed turns.
Well my though was not running around in it, but diving at the enemy, it's risky, as you may crash, but it would deal melee+knockback.
As for the egg, the dragon egg is spawned into the world on top of the exit ender portal. It can not be mined, however as it is a tile entity, and it has physics, it can be forcibly "poped off" either with a piston, or by dropping it on a torch. Basically, you really have to try to get it to drop. The gryphon egg should be the same.
I would also suggest that if you hold shift, it would tuck the wings, making you fall faster (potentially you could take fall damage) and it would allow for tighter high speed turns.
Oh i'm sorry. I misunderstood what you meant about diving. That sounds pretty cool.
Ahhh so that's how the fabled dragon egg works. Hmm i wonder what a good way to gather a Gryphon egg would be... What if you had to put it in a minecart? Maybe by pushing it with a piston, like with the dragon egg. That would be interesting... Haha you'd have to set up a rail from the cliff/mountain/hill to where you plan on hatching it at.
Hm shift... That could be useful.
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Pinballboy7 =D
I know right? my brother, Papertiger (whom has posted here a few times) made that awesome banner, along with all the other Gryphon concept art!
Feel free to use it if you feel like spreading support!
Rather than spamming spacebar, maybe it could be balanced by making the gryphon stubborn and hard to steer.
Well... It should be slightly stubborn and hard to steer no matter what. I agree with that part.
As for having to spam the space bar... I liked Papertiger's suggestion for being able to hold the space bar down to glide, once you already gained altitude from hitting the space bar several times. Which also goes hand in hand with Droideka30's suggestion of being able to hold the space bar to hover. Same basic concept.
Thank you for your feedback
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Essentially I would think that not touching space (while in the air) would have the gryphon lift its wings high, allowing for air to pass by, providing a slow fall. Pressing it will cause a flap down, providing lift, and holding it will stretch them out wide to glide. And with enough speed a glide may even provide lift, depending on the angle, pulling out of a dive would probably involve holding space and looking up, and then beginning to flap on the way back up.
I have another question. What would your gryphon do when your not riding on it? Would it follow you around? Would it knockback hostile mobs near you?
Also I think it would be cool if the gryphon did knock back as its attack. That way when your flying having a dog fight the point would be who is the more skilled at flying that you can out menuver your opponents gryphon to knock your opponent off the other gryphons back so they fall to their death. Just a thought. I still think this idea is fantastic.
Essentially I would think that not touching space (while in the air) would have the gryphon lift its wings high, allowing for air to pass by, providing a slow fall. Pressing it will cause a flap down, providing lift, and holding it will stretch them out wide to glide. And with enough speed a glide may even provide lift, depending on the angle, pulling out of a dive would probably involve holding space and looking up, and then beginning to flap on the way back up.
Awesome description. That is almost exactly what i had in mind.
I have another question. What would your gryphon do when your not riding on it? Would it follow you around? Would it knockback hostile mobs near you?
Also I think it would be cool if the gryphon did knock back as its attack. That way when your flying having a dog fight the point would be who is the more skilled at flying that you can out menuver your opponents gryphon to knock your opponent off the other gryphons back so they fall to their death. Just a thought. I still think this idea is fantastic.
For the sake of balance, which is important if it is to make it's way into Minecraft someday (Hopefully), a tamed Gryphon wouldn't do anything without a rider. It'd just stand or sit wherever you landed it last.
Hm the knockback sounds like what Zeel had in mind. It might not be a bad idea.
Ty for your support of Gryphons =D
This is really an awesome idea. Well balanced, fitting in vanilla and also original. So I support this.
About the egg: I think that you should not make it the same as the ender egg. The ender egg teleports if you try to mine it, just like endermen teleports. I don't think that you should give the gryphon egg the same ability, because it is another mob. Maybe it is an idea that you can only mine it with a diamond pickaxe, just like obsidian?
Thank you!!
Right. It shouldn't teleport... That would be strange. Hm a diamond pickaxe might make sense. Or maybe some other tool that isn't usually used for mining but might make be useful for scooping a giant egg out of a nest. Maybe a shovel?
Well, since Gryphons have 4 legs, I can't see the reason why are they unable to move on surface. Maybe you could walk with a Gryphon, but way slower than on foot, so it wouldn't replace pigs.
And I've got an idea for hatching the Gryphon egg: In my opinion, the Gryphon egg, and the nest should be unbreakable. You would have to set the block fire under the (1x1x1 block the size) nest. But simple flint&steel it wouldn't work; you would have to gather netherrack from the nether.
Well, i know they have four legs... But i'm concerned that being able to be both a land AND air mount would make them too unbalanced and it might take away from the Minecraft Survival experience. But maybe them only being able to walk slowly, like you suggested, would be a good middle ground. I could see that working, assuming they walked slow enough. Ty for your suggestion
A shovel could also be possible, maybe even better then the pickaxe, as long it has a high tier. But don't make it too hard to obtain the egg. You already have to find it and maybe also battle the parents if you want to implement that suggestion (I am for adult untamable gryphons in the sky, it gives some ambience in the world and can make you really want to fly it). And the breeding is also quite a work. I think that a diamond shovel and some time to mine is enough for the egg. And maybe you can let the mob walk slower and let it not be possible to get up one block high? Then it just walks like the real one does, but it has still not really use in the hilly landscapes of Minecraft.
Really, I like this idea, because flying like this is very fun, exciting and satisfying if you really learned and refined the techniques.
Right. You don't want it to be TOO hard to get. If there are to be wild adult Gryphons (only Mojang can decide!), i agree with seeing adults in the sky for ambiance (and that you never have to fight them). That would be so cool to see.
And being able to slowly walk is probably for the best. I guess it would be a little too awkward to only be able to hop when you are trying to move extremely short distances. And i like what you said about it not being able to move up any blocks while walking.
Here could be a good example of Gryphon riding: You mount your Gryphon, whose roost is located atop your castle. You walk it over to the edge of the roost and then take off (by pressing space bar several times to gain enough altitude). You then soar (by holding space bar) to the somewhat near-by Village. You release space bar and let your Gryphon drift down to the ground. Perhaps flapping it's wings a time or two on the way down, to reduce it's falling speed for a more accurate landing. You land, dismount your noble Gryphon and then harvest the village's wheat crops. The end lol
I think after reading all of the awesome suggestions you guys have given me, i'm going to add a "supporter suggestion" section to my original post.
EDIT: I have added a "Supporter Suggestion" section.
He did make it pretty clear in the original post already, you can attack but it doesn't make you invincible... dogfights would probably be more possible than just flying around killing ground mobs or other players from the sky.
And we ought to add a hostile flying mob(or a couple) in the overworld if we're going to fly in it.
What Papertiger means is that:
It would be quite difficult to be effective in combat vs. a ground target if you are mounted on a Gryphon. You would have very limited mobility. You would actually be vulnerable to things such as zombies, creepers, skeletons, spiders and other players (While landed/at ground level). Where as if you were to fight another player who was also on a Gryphon in the air (Dogfight!), it would be a much more balanced fight because both of you would be limited by the same maneuverability constraints yet you'd both be able to take advantage of the Gryphon's powers of flight and altitude!
Although our idea of Minecraft Gryphon's main purpose is for flying transportation, and not for combat, i like the idea of two Gryphon riders having a Dogfight/Sky duel. It would be a very intereresting thing to see.
As for hostile flying mobs... The suggestion forum rules say you are only supposed to have one suggestion per thread so i'm not going to comment on that, sorry.
Another thing. Instead of having you just go up when you hit space, you do this:
The Griffon can pitch up and down(and rolls a bit to turn, but that's mostly visual). It loses speed pitched up(and less so straight, but still there) and gains it going down. The amount you can pitch up depends on speed, so if you go without flapping for too long, you will have to pitch down eventually(no stall, though).
Pressing space flaps the wings, which speeds you up in the direction you're facing. So you speed up your descent if you flap while pitched down but you still can pitch up afterward while retaining speed, though.
Furthermore, flapping takes away from your griffon's hunger. So you'll be forced to land when your griffon gets puckered out.
I think combat here needs to be addressed. Lets face it, a gryphon is a predator. It has talons like an eagle.
As previously commented, a there should be wild adult(s) guarding the nests. Untaimable, and quite difficult to kill.
Health: The gryphon is a very powerful creature, so they should be perhaps 1/4-1/2 as much health as the ender dragon.
Damage: They would deal some melee damage (big talons guys) when they hit you head on, as well as considerable knock back.
Fighting style: Similar to the dragon, they would fly high, then dive at the opponent. However I think they should have a much steeper/quicker decent, as they are far smaller and more agile.
Tamed: While I understand the need for balance, I do not think some melee damage would be a big problem. Basically you could emulate the same attacks that wild gryphons use. Hitting an opponent head on (you strike with the head, not wings) would deal melee/knock back, with higher damage for a higher speed, and no damage under some threshold (prevent accidental damage, forces you to speed up).
Now the balance here is actually quite good. Your attack is slow, while each hit may be ~= to a diamond sword, the rate of your strikes is reduced by needing to regain altitude/speed. You also are at the disadvantage in power, as your gryphons attack scales based on speed, but even at top speed it would be unable to one-shot an armored opponent. However the ground based defender can swing a sword of great power, and lose arrows at you on approach. Plus they can simply dodge as they would the dragon. And while you are coming back around they may use potions/food to regenerate.
Now you can hedge your bets, speed and strength potions would make you able to deal greater damage, and healing/re-gen works just as well on the gryphon as any other mob. However you would be far better of simply dismounting and attacking on foot.
Which brings up a point: There should be a quick way to dismount. A simple right-click is no good, as it would be to easy to fall off, unless perhaps there was a smaller hit-box for dismount (such as a small part of the saddle that is only visible when looking directly down at it). However it would be done you would fall to the ground (and if you are doing it right, or have feather falling this is okay) and the gryphon would loop around to find a nearby landing place. It would not attack on its own, and if attacked it would simply take off and loop around to find another place to land. The intelligence of this action may also possibly keep it flying until the attacker is gone/appears uninterested. It may also avoid monsters automatically, regardless of attacks.
I would point out that to properly deal with health, a well fed gryphon would regenerate just as the player dose, though the amount of food required to keep it healthy would be far higher. And it would begin to starve, and potentially die if not fed. This ads even greater balance, as the player must continue to feed the gryphon as well as themselves.
And a point on crashing:
There would be, essentially, 3 speed tiers. The first is very slow, and incapable of flight. At speeds below a certain point you can not fly without constant flapping, and this would be strictly vertical. To maintain such a speed the player would need to look directly down/up and flap. Without the flapping the gryphon will slow fall, and eventually land without taking fall damage. Hitting blocks will simply stop all forward momentum. You can not flap if you are too close to blocks.
The second is just barley fast enough to keep in the air, and glide at high altitude. This speed is too low to cause melee damage, and if you hit the ground you will simply land and not take damage. However hitting blocks from the side will cause minor damage/slow you down.
The third is true flight speed, anything from this point till max speed can cause melee damage, and colliding with any block will deal damage to the gryphon (and possibly you) and possibly knock you off.. At this speed hitting the ground could kill your mount, or even yourself. Thus diving at an opponent is risky, as a miscalculation could do you more damage then them.
And then you included a well-written section on how it is balanced. Great work.
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Support? Check, check, check!
Great work, again I'm stunned. Balanced, and yet such a great scout. I see potential for PvP scouting, SSP, SMP freebuild. There are so many possibilities, and the way you though about them...
This deserves at least 100 rep points. Minimum.
Haha thanks... I've always like that way of spelling it best =D
You have so much good suggestions here i don't really know where to start. The idea of being able to melee attack/ram/trample with the Gryphon is interesting especially. I'm not sure if i adressed it in my original post but i kinda imagined the player being unable to run while on a Gryphon. Only fly/hop around... To add to the balance. Plus theres already pigs for that. But maybe i was wrong.
And haha yeahhh i know Gryphons would be a fierce predetor. Eagle + Lion = oh crap. Hm... Your post has made me rethink some things.
I guess i just imagined the player hitting the Egg block with a mining pick or something. And honestly, i have yet to see the enderdragon or it's egg yet... So i'm afraid i don't know what you mean =(
Ahaha i myself am a huge fan of dragons. I have played WAYYYyyyy too much Skyrim. However, suggestion topics are supposed to be limited to one suggestion per thread... I can't comment on this one way or another. Sorry.
Thank you!!! No offense taken lol!
YES! A scout is kinda what i had in mind for this mount. In a perfect world, a Minecraft Gryphon would mostly be used for travel and scouting. Imho.
Thanks =D
Well my though was not running around in it, but diving at the enemy, it's risky, as you may crash, but it would deal melee+knockback.
As for the egg, the dragon egg is spawned into the world on top of the exit ender portal. It can not be mined, however as it is a tile entity, and it has physics, it can be forcibly "poped off" either with a piston, or by dropping it on a torch. Basically, you really have to try to get it to drop. The gryphon egg should be the same.I would also suggest that if you hold shift, it would tuck the wings, making you fall faster (potentially you could take fall damage) and it would allow for tighter high speed turns.
Oh i'm sorry. I misunderstood what you meant about diving. That sounds pretty cool.
Ahhh so that's how the fabled dragon egg works. Hmm i wonder what a good way to gather a Gryphon egg would be... What if you had to put it in a minecart? Maybe by pushing it with a piston, like with the dragon egg. That would be interesting... Haha you'd have to set up a rail from the cliff/mountain/hill to where you plan on hatching it at.
Hm shift... That could be useful.
Pinballboy7 =D
I know right? my brother, Papertiger (whom has posted here a few times) made that awesome banner, along with all the other Gryphon concept art!
Feel free to use it if you feel like spreading support!
http://www.minecraft...orld-version-3/
Well... It should be slightly stubborn and hard to steer no matter what. I agree with that part.
As for having to spam the space bar... I liked Papertiger's suggestion for being able to hold the space bar down to glide, once you already gained altitude from hitting the space bar several times. Which also goes hand in hand with Droideka30's suggestion of being able to hold the space bar to hover. Same basic concept.
Thank you for your feedback
Also I think it would be cool if the gryphon did knock back as its attack. That way when your flying having a dog fight the point would be who is the more skilled at flying that you can out menuver your opponents gryphon to knock your opponent off the other gryphons back so they fall to their death. Just a thought. I still think this idea is fantastic.
Awesome description. That is almost exactly what i had in mind.
For the sake of balance, which is important if it is to make it's way into Minecraft someday (Hopefully), a tamed Gryphon wouldn't do anything without a rider. It'd just stand or sit wherever you landed it last.
Hm the knockback sounds like what Zeel had in mind. It might not be a bad idea.
Ty for your support of Gryphons =D
Thank you!!
Right. It shouldn't teleport... That would be strange. Hm a diamond pickaxe might make sense. Or maybe some other tool that isn't usually used for mining but might make be useful for scooping a giant egg out of a nest. Maybe a shovel?
Well, i know they have four legs... But i'm concerned that being able to be both a land AND air mount would make them too unbalanced and it might take away from the Minecraft Survival experience. But maybe them only being able to walk slowly, like you suggested, would be a good middle ground. I could see that working, assuming they walked slow enough. Ty for your suggestion
Right. You don't want it to be TOO hard to get. If there are to be wild adult Gryphons (only Mojang can decide!), i agree with seeing adults in the sky for ambiance (and that you never have to fight them). That would be so cool to see.
And being able to slowly walk is probably for the best. I guess it would be a little too awkward to only be able to hop when you are trying to move extremely short distances. And i like what you said about it not being able to move up any blocks while walking.
Here could be a good example of Gryphon riding: You mount your Gryphon, whose roost is located atop your castle. You walk it over to the edge of the roost and then take off (by pressing space bar several times to gain enough altitude). You then soar (by holding space bar) to the somewhat near-by Village. You release space bar and let your Gryphon drift down to the ground. Perhaps flapping it's wings a time or two on the way down, to reduce it's falling speed for a more accurate landing. You land, dismount your noble Gryphon and then harvest the village's wheat crops. The end lol
I think after reading all of the awesome suggestions you guys have given me, i'm going to add a "supporter suggestion" section to my original post.
EDIT: I have added a "Supporter Suggestion" section.