Yes. Brick.
If it's ever implemented, I think it should take a ton of damage; a dependable man-made wall that takes nothing short of explosives to demolish effectively. I mean the phrase "brick wall" gets thrown around when you hit a dead end; so make it one. It can be destroyed faster with a pickax, just expect it to take a while.
Iron, and gold blocks should take ten times longer to mine through than the ores. I mean, they're made of freakin' metal. Same goes for diamond, 'cept maybe not ten times.
A few reasons for this. First, to reduce the practicality of breaking through walls within a base. Doors. Use 'em. Second, it urks me that metal and diamond blocks don't take that many hits.
I'll put it this way.
Stone takes 4 "hits" (tap tap tap BREAK) with a stone pickax. 3 with iron, 2 with diamond. Which is fine. We don't want mining to take forever.
Brick would take about 12 hits with a stone pickax, 9 for iron, 6 with diamond.
Iron and Gold would 20 hits with stone, 15 with iron, 10 with diamond. Maybe gold could be a bit weaker.
Diamond blocks would take 50 hits with a stone pickax, 35 with iron, 25 with diamond.
To be strictly realistic, a cubic meter if iron would be nigh indestructible. It would take hundreds of stone picks to get through that, maybe even thousands, if it would even be possible. Honestly, I'd expect that a 1 meter cube of iron could survive a nuclear bomb mostly intact.
So I guess that's a +1 to making them tougher.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I thought you'd contracted a disease that gave you the same metabolism as an oak tree - Maggarg II
It heals all of your goddamn hearts! - kittensamurai
I definitely agree with making them tougher, though it should be more about disparity between pickaxe quality. IE, it wouldn't take much longer than it does now to destroy a diamond block with a diamond pickaxe, however, trying to do it with your hand could take 20 minutes for just one block.
Well, the difference between diamond and stone is roughly half the time, and if you're going to be breaking down these walls, you better be well equipped. These are all man-made blocks, none are naturally generated. So if you get stuck in them, something's wrong. Wooden tools are readily available, but I don't remember how many whacks it takes to break a stone block.
OFF TO DO SCIENCE!
Didn't take quite so long.
That's 6 for wooden pickaxes compared to stone's 4, iron's 3, and diamond's 2.
With your bare fists, I think it's about 35.
A "hit" is the time between hitting the block with your tool, even though it's a continuous process. It's more a measurement of time.
To go with what I said earlier, wooden tools would break these in:
6 hits
18 hits
[iron] / [gold] 30 hits
Diamond blocks: 80 hits
If someone uses a diamond block, they clearly don't want you in there. Or taking it.
With your fists would take roughly seven times longer that what it takes with wooden tools. But any minecrafter worth his ore would have SOME sort of tool around.
"whoops, I accidentally misplaced my cobblestone block, now it takes forever to move it"
*greifer runs into base and sticks an iron block in inconvenient place*
etc.
Instead, durabilities default to what they are now. However, in the area of a land-claim flag, they increase to the above durabilities. An iron base on a land-claim would be nigh-impregnable. A stone base would be a solid defense. This gives you all of the defensive pluses for building strong, without the drawbacks of not being able to fix mistakes.
"whoops, I accidentally misplaced my cobblestone block, now it takes forever to move it"
Cobblestone wouldn't take much time, though. Six seconds with a wood pick, lets say half that with a stone pick.
*greifer runs into base and sticks an iron block in inconvenient place*
Greifer? Someone who goes through the process that it would take to actually build an iron block is a griefer? Further, if you have an iron pickaxe, it shouldn't be much trouble.
Instead, durabilities default to what they are now. However, in the area of a land-claim flag,
If it is no hassle to remove the mistakes, then it is no hassle to break through the defenses, and hence this is all pointless.
I can get an iron block fairly quickly, with little effort, esp. if I don't care about making iron armour. nothing->iron does not take long, or much effort. Esp. If a griefer manages to steal it from someone else. Griefers have been known to put forth impressive amounts of effort into griefing.
Did you even read my version of land claim flags before denouncing them as dumb out of hand? Is the concept so offensive to you that it is a physical impossibility that I came up with an acceptable version?
If it is no hassle to remove the mistakes, then it is no hassle to break through the defenses, and hence this is all pointless.
It's no hassle IF you have the right tool for the job.
I can get an iron block fairly quickly, with little effort, esp. if I don't care about making iron armour. nothing->iron does not take long, or much effort.
It takes about 10 minutes. At that point, I wouldn't call it griefing.
Griefers have been known to put forth impressive amounts of effort into griefing.
No griefing method in creative mode is as difficult as building a single iron block in infdev.
Did you even read my version of land claim flags before denouncing them as dumb out of hand? Is the concept so offensive to you that it is a physical impossibility that I came up with an acceptable version?
What I drew from it, is that using them would make it a lot harder to destroy blocks in that area.... however, how will that deter 'griefers' anymore than increasing the disparity in pickaxe usefulness?
That said, I would be cool with something somewhat similar, if it were less... meta-gamey.
Droqen suggested magic circles a while ago, and I augmented his idea slightly:
I don't want my Iron-walled castle to be useless just because someone managed to get an iron/diamond pickaxe. If we allow contention between players, I want to be able to see epic sieges occurring against the opposition, not walk up with a diamond pickaxe and step through their wall.
So 10 minutes of game play, and its no longer griefing? Ten minutes means my 10 hours is tissue paper? I can understand someone trying to sneak into your base to steal resources, mining a tunnel underneath, etc. At that point its not greifing, its competition. Someone entering your base with an iron block is still greifing.
A land claim would allow you to increase the disparity without it turning into a double edged sword. They would have to assualt your base, so even with moderately good tools they are attacking, not just knocking a wall down. Attackers are to be expected. What if a greifer manages to knock off someone with a diamond pickaxe because they just escaped from a skeleton hoard, and had 1/2 heart left? I find the assumption that greifers will have no tools to be very laughable. Besides, as I mentioned, I want to be able to see battles being waged. Being able to diamond pickaxe through walls easily undermines that completely. Tools strength alone does not give the appropriate balance. Another effect of a land claim, which I don't remember if I mention in that post, would be to slow(not stop) non-allowed building. If someone wants to ladder up the side of your base, it will take them a bit, and they can be counter-attacked to stop them. It would prevent enemies from pillar-jumping over your wall, they would have to build a legitimate means of ascension. Warfare would be possible.
As for finding them too meta, I did not specify any method of creating them, only what their effect is. A magic circle that protects an area sounds like a cool idea to me.
I don't want my Iron-walled castle to be useless just because someone managed to get an iron/diamond pickaxe. If we allow contention between players, I want to be able to see epic sieges occurring against the opposition, not walk up with a diamond pickaxe and step through their wall.
Why can't you have both? If you have a diamond pickaxe out when another player is around, you're screwed anyway. While you're trying to dig through their wall, they're stabbing you in the back, and you can't exactly have a siege without other players anyway.
So 10 minutes of game play, and its no longer griefing? Ten minutes means my 10 hours is tissue paper?
It would take less time to undo than to do. 10 minutes to place an iron block. 4 or so minutes to delete it. IF you have no tools. It just doesn't seem like griefing when it makes the griefer do more work than the non-griefer.
A land claim would allow you to increase the disparity without it turning into a double edged sword. They would have to assualt your base, so even with moderately good tools they are attacking, not just knocking a wall down. Attackers are to be expected. What if a greifer manages to knock off someone with a diamond pickaxe because they just escaped from a skeleton hoard, and had 1/2 heart left?
That's luck, and you'll have to deal with that. Bad things happen in real life too.
How often do you think that's going to occur, though?
If someone wants to ladder up the side of your base, it will take them a bit, and they can be counter-attacked to stop them.
Why would they even bother laddering up if destroying walls is easier with the land claim flag idea?
It would prevent enemies from pillar-jumping over your wall, they would have to build a legitimate means of ascension.
How would it prevent pillar jumpers more than ladder climbers?
As for finding them too meta, I did not specify any method of creating them, only what their effect is. A magic circle that protects an area sounds like a cool idea to me.
I'm glad we could agree. :smile.gif:
Of course, the difference between the two ideas, and the reason why I found your idea too meta, is that the magic circles would effect EVERYONE, where as your idea would effect everyone except the person who set the land claim flag. That's really where I start to not like it- and when you throw in friends lists and such, to actually make the claim flags useful... it becomes extremely meta.
Any way you balance it so that you can seige properly you end up with the hindrance of having to deal with it yourself. I end up tearing down half of my walls when expanding a base, and it is annoying enough with the current speed. This same speed would be almost useless for defending against a seige. You need asymmetry in order for it to be reasonable. If its man-made is stronger, than building into the cliff face becomes an idiotic idea, since it is weaker, when that should be a strong position. Any adjustment to make a siege reasonable would make normal play tedious.
If they are outside of the wall to stab you, then you don't need to get through their wall to kill them, do you? A seige would require you to wage war, with the defender having the advantage of a fortress, until you can create enough of an opening to get a guy through the wall wit ha pickaxe. The better the pickaxe the less time you need, but the more you risk.
It might take 10 minutes to the first iron block, it is significantly less to get the second. Infrastructure that the greifer builds up in this ten minutes can be stored and picked back up when they respawn. Even if they didn't do iron, filling your base with stone would be throughly annoying.
Ok, that example was a bit extreme. What if they successfully greifed another player, and made off with their diamond? Now they have diamond, and all future greifing will be easy.
Going through the side of a base requires you to destroy two blocks, and destroying them would be time consuming. A pillar jumper requires you to be able to jump, and place a block beneath you before you fall down again. if it takes 1 second to build a block, you can't pillar jump. Building a ladder up th side of a building would take some time, but less than breaking through the wall.
Why can't magic identify friend and foe? You could implement it by giving them a magical token, which grants them access, and is not dropped when they die. Now you have a non-meta way of creating your friend lists. You need a token to be able to work in the area. The token itself can be very cheap. The owner of the area can have a master token that can destroy other tokens, so problem players can be removed from privileged positions.
If it's ever implemented, I think it should take a ton of damage; a dependable man-made wall that takes nothing short of explosives to demolish effectively. I mean the phrase "brick wall" gets thrown around when you hit a dead end; so make it one. It can be destroyed faster with a pickax, just expect it to take a while.
Iron, and gold blocks should take ten times longer to mine through than the ores. I mean, they're made of freakin' metal. Same goes for diamond, 'cept maybe not ten times.
A few reasons for this. First, to reduce the practicality of breaking through walls within a base. Doors. Use 'em. Second, it urks me that metal and diamond blocks don't take that many hits.
Just wanted it said. Agree or no?
It would take forever to pickaxe through a 3 foot hunk of steel.
Stone takes 4 "hits" (tap tap tap BREAK) with a stone pickax. 3 with iron, 2 with diamond. Which is fine. We don't want mining to take forever.
Brick would take about 12 hits with a stone pickax, 9 for iron, 6 with diamond.
Iron and Gold would 20 hits with stone, 15 with iron, 10 with diamond. Maybe gold could be a bit weaker.
Diamond blocks would take 50 hits with a stone pickax, 35 with iron, 25 with diamond.
So I guess that's a +1 to making them tougher.
It heals all of your goddamn hearts! - kittensamurai
OFF TO DO SCIENCE!Didn't take quite so long.
That's 6 for wooden pickaxes compared to stone's 4, iron's 3, and diamond's 2.
With your bare fists, I think it's about 35.
A "hit" is the time between hitting the block with your tool, even though it's a continuous process. It's more a measurement of time.
To go with what I said earlier, wooden tools would break these in:
6 hits
18 hits
[iron] / [gold] 30 hits
Diamond blocks: 80 hits
If someone uses a diamond block, they clearly don't want you in there. Or taking it.
With your fists would take roughly seven times longer that what it takes with wooden tools. But any minecrafter worth his ore would have SOME sort of tool around.
"whoops, I accidentally misplaced my cobblestone block, now it takes forever to move it"
*greifer runs into base and sticks an iron block in inconvenient place*
etc.
Instead, durabilities default to what they are now. However, in the area of a land-claim flag, they increase to the above durabilities. An iron base on a land-claim would be nigh-impregnable. A stone base would be a solid defense. This gives you all of the defensive pluses for building strong, without the drawbacks of not being able to fix mistakes.
I've explored this subject in great depth here
Cobblestone wouldn't take much time, though. Six seconds with a wood pick, lets say half that with a stone pick.
Greifer? Someone who goes through the process that it would take to actually build an iron block is a griefer? Further, if you have an iron pickaxe, it shouldn't be much trouble.
Land claim flags are dumb.
I can get an iron block fairly quickly, with little effort, esp. if I don't care about making iron armour. nothing->iron does not take long, or much effort. Esp. If a griefer manages to steal it from someone else. Griefers have been known to put forth impressive amounts of effort into griefing.
Did you even read my version of land claim flags before denouncing them as dumb out of hand? Is the concept so offensive to you that it is a physical impossibility that I came up with an acceptable version?
It's no hassle IF you have the right tool for the job.
It takes about 10 minutes. At that point, I wouldn't call it griefing.
No griefing method in creative mode is as difficult as building a single iron block in infdev.
What I drew from it, is that using them would make it a lot harder to destroy blocks in that area.... however, how will that deter 'griefers' anymore than increasing the disparity in pickaxe usefulness?
That said, I would be cool with something somewhat similar, if it were less... meta-gamey.
Droqen suggested magic circles a while ago, and I augmented his idea slightly:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6275&hilit=magic+circle&start=30
I think that would be a lot cooler, than just 'land claim flags'.
So 10 minutes of game play, and its no longer griefing? Ten minutes means my 10 hours is tissue paper? I can understand someone trying to sneak into your base to steal resources, mining a tunnel underneath, etc. At that point its not greifing, its competition. Someone entering your base with an iron block is still greifing.
A land claim would allow you to increase the disparity without it turning into a double edged sword. They would have to assualt your base, so even with moderately good tools they are attacking, not just knocking a wall down. Attackers are to be expected. What if a greifer manages to knock off someone with a diamond pickaxe because they just escaped from a skeleton hoard, and had 1/2 heart left? I find the assumption that greifers will have no tools to be very laughable. Besides, as I mentioned, I want to be able to see battles being waged. Being able to diamond pickaxe through walls easily undermines that completely. Tools strength alone does not give the appropriate balance. Another effect of a land claim, which I don't remember if I mention in that post, would be to slow(not stop) non-allowed building. If someone wants to ladder up the side of your base, it will take them a bit, and they can be counter-attacked to stop them. It would prevent enemies from pillar-jumping over your wall, they would have to build a legitimate means of ascension. Warfare would be possible.
As for finding them too meta, I did not specify any method of creating them, only what their effect is. A magic circle that protects an area sounds like a cool idea to me.
Why can't you have both? If you have a diamond pickaxe out when another player is around, you're screwed anyway. While you're trying to dig through their wall, they're stabbing you in the back, and you can't exactly have a siege without other players anyway.
It would take less time to undo than to do. 10 minutes to place an iron block. 4 or so minutes to delete it. IF you have no tools. It just doesn't seem like griefing when it makes the griefer do more work than the non-griefer.
That's luck, and you'll have to deal with that. Bad things happen in real life too.
How often do you think that's going to occur, though?
Why would they even bother laddering up if destroying walls is easier with the land claim flag idea?
How would it prevent pillar jumpers more than ladder climbers?
I'm glad we could agree. :smile.gif:
Of course, the difference between the two ideas, and the reason why I found your idea too meta, is that the magic circles would effect EVERYONE, where as your idea would effect everyone except the person who set the land claim flag. That's really where I start to not like it- and when you throw in friends lists and such, to actually make the claim flags useful... it becomes extremely meta.
If they are outside of the wall to stab you, then you don't need to get through their wall to kill them, do you? A seige would require you to wage war, with the defender having the advantage of a fortress, until you can create enough of an opening to get a guy through the wall wit ha pickaxe. The better the pickaxe the less time you need, but the more you risk.
It might take 10 minutes to the first iron block, it is significantly less to get the second. Infrastructure that the greifer builds up in this ten minutes can be stored and picked back up when they respawn. Even if they didn't do iron, filling your base with stone would be throughly annoying.
Ok, that example was a bit extreme. What if they successfully greifed another player, and made off with their diamond? Now they have diamond, and all future greifing will be easy.
Going through the side of a base requires you to destroy two blocks, and destroying them would be time consuming. A pillar jumper requires you to be able to jump, and place a block beneath you before you fall down again. if it takes 1 second to build a block, you can't pillar jump. Building a ladder up th side of a building would take some time, but less than breaking through the wall.
Why can't magic identify friend and foe? You could implement it by giving them a magical token, which grants them access, and is not dropped when they die. Now you have a non-meta way of creating your friend lists. You need a token to be able to work in the area. The token itself can be very cheap. The owner of the area can have a master token that can destroy other tokens, so problem players can be removed from privileged positions.