Wall of text, sorry. It may look a little sprawling but it's not a wish list just a long thought out suggestion so keep it here :tongue.gif:
Ok, i know Notch has spoken of implementing a magic system but an understated one. A friend and I have had a curious idea on how to implement it.
Most magic systems incorporate mana pools and spellcasting. This wouldn't so much be solely a magic system as a global duality system. Light/Dark Life/Death Good/Evil.
Now bear with me, this isn't fable style 'you are ebil and have hornslol'. It's to do with changing the environment, the effect the powers have on the world, creatures and items.
Lets start off with you outside of a graveyard. The graveyard emanates an aura of darkness and death, within these tiles night seems to last longer and the clouds are more ominous. Colour seems to be leeched from the world and zombies are shambling about while skeletons harryhausen around the crypts.
You stride jauntily towards the first zombies cutting them down in a bouncing dance of undeath. Each fallen foe goes towards purifying the land. Your sword glints as the sun breaks through the clouds, striking down the final foe. So many undead have been vanquished by its edge that a glimmer of the righteousness you've shown imbues it.
The land seems less foul, the destruction of so many creatures of the darkness has gone some way to removing the taint it held.
Ok, the idea is that everything can have one of the two auras. That aura is built upon by actions, so murder, destruction and death will increase the aura of death in a land. It will also mean that the tools used to do good or evil also take on these qualities. So killing innocents will mean your sword will become more evil and do more damage to good entities.
These auras are not just idle qualities. A player of sufficient power and skill may draw upon the auras adding it to his reserves which he can then use to befoul areas or lift blessings on items. The auraic energies would also allow further imbuing and improvement of weapons and armour with the auras at specific altars or rituals.
Death has synergies with darkness while life with light. A Dark player for example may be able to do a ritual to allow him to see in the dark and summon shadows or smoke while finding the light harder to see in. a light player could do-a-gandalf raising his staff and illuminating a newly uncovered cave.
A sufficiently talented and supplied dark player might take a sapling and twist it with rituals creating a dark seed. He could then plant his seed in a neutral square where it will slowly grow becoming a twisted tree corrupting the land it grows on and eventually spreading its evil to surrounding squares. A noble player might arrive there sense its aura and cut down or burn the tree revealing its tainted core which must be destroyed to remove it from play permanently.
However when a square reaches a certain threshold of whatever alignment it will become ingrained into the land. Removing the artefact which changed the land will merely stop the aura spreading further. At an even higher level the very land itself will propagate the aura to surrounding squares while perhaps giving rise to artefacts.
INFLUENCE ON THE WORLD
Mildly affected landscapes have longer days or nights and more/less cloud cover depending on the alignment.
When the area is stable as evil the area is cloud covered in the day and thus undead can survive in the day.
In a stable good area It's always a sunny cloudless day, crops grow faster and the undead will burn faster.
More heavily evil areas should have blackened skies and ashen earth spawning voracious beasties and deadly numbers of the undead roaming the twisted forests where deadly mushrooms grow (deadly to some, not others ;]).
More good areas should have noble creatures (robot unicorn?) maybe dryads or nymphs. The floor would be carpeted with verdant grass, useful looking flowers and the occasional natural crops, tree fruitsand mushrooms.
Within stable or heavily affected lands the tiles reflect the aura of the landscape being more lush or more barren accordingly. (This could be as simple as a change in the hue/saturation or lightness rather than a new skin or just rely on effects and post processing) If you were to mine stone in an evil area it would create evil cobblestone with a new more evil appearance and same for good. You can also imbue the stone with a ritual allowing you to use stone stocks for building your vast evil tower. As such imbued player made structures can act as artefacts with each block they comprise of contributing a tiny amount of aura energy to the area meaning the bigger your construction the more adjoining mapsquares you can affect!
Any ore mined would be aura affected, certain drops would be aura affected - so if you kill a pig in the good area and you're an evil player, don't eat that porkchop as it'll burn your throat.
PERSONAL AURAE
Now the player himself has similar qualities. One can have either aura. Just the same as items and areas the player has to perform the acts to acquire the aura. Here the aura provides the ability for the player to be able to perform rituals and acts calling upon the auras.
The more powerful and talented the aura user is, the more aura he is able to reserve. The aura reserves provide what could be described as mana but are more integral to the game. You can use your reserves to curse / bless items and blocks rituals need an altar to carry out so cannot be performed on the fly.
The powers and abilities provided by aura energy could be many and wide-ranging:
Rituals may include healing, summoning, invoking special powers, transforming or imbuing items/blocks with special powers. A significant part may be to set an item or block as respawn point which boosts or retains more of your power or keeps a number of aura imbued items. This would be something like a phylactery (or a horcrux for those of the modern times)
Gaining aura power would operate on diminishing returns, for example monster/innocent killing providing a baseline increase which adds less and less power the more power you have. There should be a point that power can only be recieved by killing significantly powerful opposing users or destroying large powerbases.
AURA ENERGY ECONOMY
When you use your aura energy reserves you deplete them and they passively regenerate slowly at best. In neutral lands this drops to a very slow tick whilst in opposing aura areas it will not regenerate at all. If you want to recuperate faster you must either accrue more by doing away with the opposition and their trinkets or return to source of your aura where you can actively draw on the energy of the area. If a powerful aura user were to do this it could deplete the life force or vile energy in an area returning it to a barren neutral stripping it and any items/blocks within it of the aura. It would be more efficient to do this with an artefact, placing it and feeding it with your reserves.
You also have the ability to draw the aura energy from anything in the world. If you draw the aura energy from an opposing aura item it will cost your aura reserves so if you capture a particularly powerful cursed relic or item you can place it on the altar of light you've built and draw upon the energies of your keep to remove the curses from it. A possibly very costly thing to do. If you have no reserves or imbued surroundings to draw upon then you sacrifice your life points to use abilities or negate the opposing aura. Conversely you can draw upon your aura and reserves to restore life points (or unlife points i guess).
If you draw aura energy from an item of your aura you can drain it of aura replenishing a measure of your power whilst depleting the aura of the item. If an item with an aura breaks then you're left with a relic which at great expense can be repaired (if you don't want to lose an awesome item) or sapped for aura while destroying the relic in the process. Since this is likely a sword or piece of armour which may have seen numerous campaigns against the opposing side, it'll probably be seething with energy.
TECHNOLOGICAL CONSIDERATIONS:
Aura levels are stored per-map square, per player, per item/stack and per player made block.
Map square aura should use gradiations of perhaps around 512 (or 512 either way).
Players would have two variables, one for power and one for reserves.
As reserves could potentially have to be enough to drain both a map square and its occupying structures of aura it might have to go as high as 1024/2048 or maybe higher (if you want to allow really powerful aura users)
The power variable would also rely on granularity of the other parts but also how much more reserve you gain by increasing power. Every time you die it could remove a percentage of your power subject to balance.
Items would have to tie in with player power though should max out a lot earlier than players.
Player made blocks would just be blocks. They would be light, dark or neutral because areas are already dealt with. You'd have to create aura based versions of: Cobblestones, wood planks, glass, iron, gold and diamond. The others occur naturally so could use the natural aura versions and if placed just revert to not having any additional effect.
These all rely on how much granularity you want on auras.
So you've reached the end. I've probably gone into far too much detail there.
The skinny: Kill good stuff to become evil, kill evil stuff to become good. If you kill enough stuff it'll affect the environment and you can use that to power magic.
Watch out for the Magic series sequels: Elemental auras and Soul Magic (alternative magical therapy).
The kind of magic that's PROBABLY going to get implemented won't be anything obvious or in your face. Enchantments and Alchemy are the two most prevalent magic suggestions.
Most people here are opposed to obvious magic, just because it's somewhat generic these days. I myself am no different.
This would make a perpetual light vs. dark war in Minecraft, and magic just for changing the environment is a little... lame. Hopefully it's more than that (or I read wrong), but I think the magic will be more for the crafting aspect of minecraft and other miscellanities.
Well the magic itself could be anything. This is more of a method of fuelling the magic without resorting to a recovering mana pool (mostly:P)
The idea is you'd sow the seeds of whatever aura then derive energy from the environment and your acts (good or evil). You could then put this energy into a weapon as an enchantment or imbue an artefact to have special properties (using the phylactery idea on a painting, Dorian Gray anyone?)
Crafting weapons of cursed iron to do more damage to the priests of yonder town or wearing a blessed golden crown to ward the vile arrows of the undead.
Performing a ritual to create a cursed stone which will summon a skeleton guardian.
My other idea is the use of souls - each creature has an elemental soul which can extracted be used as reagents in enchantment, rituals, summonings and imbuement. (bind a fire soul to a bow to get it to fire flaming arrows or consume 5 death souls in a ritual to summon a skeleton warrior)
Souls might be a tad much, but I like the idea of feeding off the energy of the land to power your magic seems OK to me.
I had the idea of splitting light into earth, wind (or thunder), fire and water to specialize weapons when you make them (speed, power, etc.). That doesn't essentially mean elemental rock paper scissors (it's all light), just specific buffs to your tools and weapons.
I'm personally all for bold and true magic, as long as it is extremely difficult to master and subsequently harm people with. I want to be able to meet a powerful wizard that can call for flame from his hand and lightning from the sky... but at the same time, I really don't want many people to be able to do that, and it won't happen like that.
I'm personally all for bold and true magic, as long as it is extremely difficult to master and subsequently harm people with. I want to be able to meet a powerful wizard that can call for flame from his hand and lightning from the sky... but at the same time, I really don't want many people to be able to do that, and it won't happen like that.
Personally, I like the methods of "magic" that are already in the game; if you want a monster on fire, you use a flint and steel on the ground beneath it. If you want an area "warded" to keep monsters from appearing there, you set up torches.
When and if Notch implements magic, I would prefer to see it in this fashion; not "throw fire and ice at x monster" magic per-say, and only effective when used creatively.
More topic-specific, however; the biggest problem I see with this system is that you would have to have a "morality" variable for every tile in the game, as well as processes to update said variable almost constantly. Those of you who have experienced sunup and sundown on an infinite map, especially on a slow computer, know the level of lag the game goes through when updating a single variable for every tile on every loaded chunk. It would be the exact same process, but at all times.
As was said before, this is an amazingly fresh post that brought new ideas to the hot topic of magic in Minecraft. It would be very fun to see this implemented as it gives rise to several features that wouldn't need to be hardcoded. An example being the fact the your home base will slowly be aligned to your alignment and will refill you aura stocks when you spend long amounts of time there. That wouldn't need to be implemented specifically, it simply arises from the nature of the suggestion!
Its...unique, but adds a whole new objective to Minecraft. I think it'll end up with alchemy to improve an item someway. For now, i'll just stick with my Level 5 Fireball and Level 7 Shock.
More topic-specific, however; the biggest problem I see with this system is that you would have to have a "morality" variable for every tile in the game, as well as processes to update said variable almost constantly. Those of you who have experienced sunup and sundown on an infinite map, especially on a slow computer, know the level of lag the game goes through when updating a single variable for every tile on every loaded chunk. It would be the exact same process, but at all times.
Not true, i stated that only an extra bit or two is required for actual blocks and only player placed blocks at that, they can only be evil, neutral or good. The aura values of an area would be stored in the 16x16 mapsquares and all natural tiles would take their alignment from that. Scaling aura values for each block would exponentially increase the size of the map files and be more hassle than it's worth.
I love the idea. It's very original and I could see it making a map look awesome. But it's not practical to implement in minecraft and personally, duality doesn't work for me. Death darkness and evil aren't necessarily all tied together. Same with life light and good.
Have it be similar to Warhammer, with evil representing Chaos and good representing the Imperials/Blood Ravens.
Chaos wasn't inherently evil either. Chaos gods did whatever it wanted according to the emotion that spawned it. The Imperium wasn't the greatest place either. Check out the 40k book series. It's a good read.
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It would be awesome required lots of player skill to use effectively as well being expensive, that way only a few players with skill, endurence, and plenty of items would ever be able to use it. Though this kind of magic would require some skill to upkeep a good nature in the land, other complete new players who want to have a good nature would instantly reap all the benifits of the first persons work.
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It would be awesome required lots of player skill to use effectively as well being expensive, that way only a few players with skill, endurence, and plenty of items would ever be able to use it. Though this kind of magic would require some skill to upkeep a good nature in the land, other complete new players who want to have a good nature would instantly reap all the benifits of the first persons work.
This is what I am looking for, an unwieldy system of an impractical great power.
When it comes to souls, I like to think of Multiwinia.
When Darwinians die, they leave behind a soul.
This soul can be used for many things, it can be ignored, and it'll go back to the soul collective, it could be collected, and a new darwinian could be born, or it can be consumed by a demon and make it grow stronger. ( Bascially magical capacity )
There are two kinds of special lands like this suggestion talks about, Magical forests ( Blessed Lands ) , and Dark Forests ( Tainted Lands ) .
A magical forest is a great place, given a little while it churns out a soul ( mana? ) , and generally heals people.
A dark forest kills people that trespass its tree line, this places makes things spirited away, they perish, and their souls are lost and unsalvageable, this given time, and enough Darwinains being spirited away, it'll look like a gloomy fog has come upon the forest.
Anyways, I'd like to suggest that there be a third dominate aura ( or at least emphasis its importance ) , neutral.
Basically it is what happens when entropy is given the win.
If to evil, and good lands are left alone, they may cancel eachother out into neutral zones.
But neutral zones are easier to convert to either side.
There are no benefits to killing in a neutral zone.
I'm not willing to go into detail, let's just say - if this were implemented I would weep a tear, for it would be a sad day in the land of Minecraftia.
Ok, i know Notch has spoken of implementing a magic system but an understated one. A friend and I have had a curious idea on how to implement it.
Most magic systems incorporate mana pools and spellcasting. This wouldn't so much be solely a magic system as a global duality system. Light/Dark Life/Death Good/Evil.
Now bear with me, this isn't fable style 'you are ebil and have hornslol'. It's to do with changing the environment, the effect the powers have on the world, creatures and items.
Lets start off with you outside of a graveyard. The graveyard emanates an aura of darkness and death, within these tiles night seems to last longer and the clouds are more ominous. Colour seems to be leeched from the world and zombies are shambling about while skeletons harryhausen around the crypts.
You stride jauntily towards the first zombies cutting them down in a bouncing dance of undeath. Each fallen foe goes towards purifying the land. Your sword glints as the sun breaks through the clouds, striking down the final foe. So many undead have been vanquished by its edge that a glimmer of the righteousness you've shown imbues it.
The land seems less foul, the destruction of so many creatures of the darkness has gone some way to removing the taint it held.
Ok, the idea is that everything can have one of the two auras. That aura is built upon by actions, so murder, destruction and death will increase the aura of death in a land. It will also mean that the tools used to do good or evil also take on these qualities. So killing innocents will mean your sword will become more evil and do more damage to good entities.
These auras are not just idle qualities. A player of sufficient power and skill may draw upon the auras adding it to his reserves which he can then use to befoul areas or lift blessings on items. The auraic energies would also allow further imbuing and improvement of weapons and armour with the auras at specific altars or rituals.
Death has synergies with darkness while life with light. A Dark player for example may be able to do a ritual to allow him to see in the dark and summon shadows or smoke while finding the light harder to see in. a light player could do-a-gandalf raising his staff and illuminating a newly uncovered cave.
A sufficiently talented and supplied dark player might take a sapling and twist it with rituals creating a dark seed. He could then plant his seed in a neutral square where it will slowly grow becoming a twisted tree corrupting the land it grows on and eventually spreading its evil to surrounding squares. A noble player might arrive there sense its aura and cut down or burn the tree revealing its tainted core which must be destroyed to remove it from play permanently.
However when a square reaches a certain threshold of whatever alignment it will become ingrained into the land. Removing the artefact which changed the land will merely stop the aura spreading further. At an even higher level the very land itself will propagate the aura to surrounding squares while perhaps giving rise to artefacts.
INFLUENCE ON THE WORLD
Mildly affected landscapes have longer days or nights and more/less cloud cover depending on the alignment.
When the area is stable as evil the area is cloud covered in the day and thus undead can survive in the day.
In a stable good area It's always a sunny cloudless day, crops grow faster and the undead will burn faster.
More heavily evil areas should have blackened skies and ashen earth spawning voracious beasties and deadly numbers of the undead roaming the twisted forests where deadly mushrooms grow (deadly to some, not others ;]).
More good areas should have noble creatures (robot unicorn?) maybe dryads or nymphs. The floor would be carpeted with verdant grass, useful looking flowers and the occasional natural crops, tree fruitsand mushrooms.
Within stable or heavily affected lands the tiles reflect the aura of the landscape being more lush or more barren accordingly. (This could be as simple as a change in the hue/saturation or lightness rather than a new skin or just rely on effects and post processing) If you were to mine stone in an evil area it would create evil cobblestone with a new more evil appearance and same for good. You can also imbue the stone with a ritual allowing you to use stone stocks for building your vast evil tower. As such imbued player made structures can act as artefacts with each block they comprise of contributing a tiny amount of aura energy to the area meaning the bigger your construction the more adjoining mapsquares you can affect!
Any ore mined would be aura affected, certain drops would be aura affected - so if you kill a pig in the good area and you're an evil player, don't eat that porkchop as it'll burn your throat.
PERSONAL AURAE
Now the player himself has similar qualities. One can have either aura. Just the same as items and areas the player has to perform the acts to acquire the aura. Here the aura provides the ability for the player to be able to perform rituals and acts calling upon the auras.
The more powerful and talented the aura user is, the more aura he is able to reserve. The aura reserves provide what could be described as mana but are more integral to the game. You can use your reserves to curse / bless items and blocks rituals need an altar to carry out so cannot be performed on the fly.
The powers and abilities provided by aura energy could be many and wide-ranging:
Rituals may include healing, summoning, invoking special powers, transforming or imbuing items/blocks with special powers. A significant part may be to set an item or block as respawn point which boosts or retains more of your power or keeps a number of aura imbued items. This would be something like a phylactery (or a horcrux for those of the modern times)
Gaining aura power would operate on diminishing returns, for example monster/innocent killing providing a baseline increase which adds less and less power the more power you have. There should be a point that power can only be recieved by killing significantly powerful opposing users or destroying large powerbases.
AURA ENERGY ECONOMY
When you use your aura energy reserves you deplete them and they passively regenerate slowly at best. In neutral lands this drops to a very slow tick whilst in opposing aura areas it will not regenerate at all. If you want to recuperate faster you must either accrue more by doing away with the opposition and their trinkets or return to source of your aura where you can actively draw on the energy of the area. If a powerful aura user were to do this it could deplete the life force or vile energy in an area returning it to a barren neutral stripping it and any items/blocks within it of the aura. It would be more efficient to do this with an artefact, placing it and feeding it with your reserves.
You also have the ability to draw the aura energy from anything in the world. If you draw the aura energy from an opposing aura item it will cost your aura reserves so if you capture a particularly powerful cursed relic or item you can place it on the altar of light you've built and draw upon the energies of your keep to remove the curses from it. A possibly very costly thing to do. If you have no reserves or imbued surroundings to draw upon then you sacrifice your life points to use abilities or negate the opposing aura. Conversely you can draw upon your aura and reserves to restore life points (or unlife points i guess).
If you draw aura energy from an item of your aura you can drain it of aura replenishing a measure of your power whilst depleting the aura of the item. If an item with an aura breaks then you're left with a relic which at great expense can be repaired (if you don't want to lose an awesome item) or sapped for aura while destroying the relic in the process. Since this is likely a sword or piece of armour which may have seen numerous campaigns against the opposing side, it'll probably be seething with energy.
TECHNOLOGICAL CONSIDERATIONS:
Aura levels are stored per-map square, per player, per item/stack and per player made block.
Map square aura should use gradiations of perhaps around 512 (or 512 either way).
Players would have two variables, one for power and one for reserves.
As reserves could potentially have to be enough to drain both a map square and its occupying structures of aura it might have to go as high as 1024/2048 or maybe higher (if you want to allow really powerful aura users)
The power variable would also rely on granularity of the other parts but also how much more reserve you gain by increasing power. Every time you die it could remove a percentage of your power subject to balance.
Items would have to tie in with player power though should max out a lot earlier than players.
Player made blocks would just be blocks. They would be light, dark or neutral because areas are already dealt with. You'd have to create aura based versions of: Cobblestones, wood planks, glass, iron, gold and diamond. The others occur naturally so could use the natural aura versions and if placed just revert to not having any additional effect.
These all rely on how much granularity you want on auras.
So you've reached the end. I've probably gone into far too much detail there.
The skinny: Kill good stuff to become evil, kill evil stuff to become good. If you kill enough stuff it'll affect the environment and you can use that to power magic.
Watch out for the Magic series sequels: Elemental auras and Soul Magic (alternative magical therapy).
The kind of magic that's PROBABLY going to get implemented won't be anything obvious or in your face. Enchantments and Alchemy are the two most prevalent magic suggestions.
Most people here are opposed to obvious magic, just because it's somewhat generic these days. I myself am no different.
Kudos on having an original idea in the MC Suggestions Forums!
The idea is you'd sow the seeds of whatever aura then derive energy from the environment and your acts (good or evil). You could then put this energy into a weapon as an enchantment or imbue an artefact to have special properties (using the phylactery idea on a painting, Dorian Gray anyone?)
Crafting weapons of cursed iron to do more damage to the priests of yonder town or wearing a blessed golden crown to ward the vile arrows of the undead.
Performing a ritual to create a cursed stone which will summon a skeleton guardian.
My other idea is the use of souls - each creature has an elemental soul which can extracted be used as reagents in enchantment, rituals, summonings and imbuement. (bind a fire soul to a bow to get it to fire flaming arrows or consume 5 death souls in a ritual to summon a skeleton warrior)
I had the idea of splitting light into earth, wind (or thunder), fire and water to specialize weapons when you make them (speed, power, etc.). That doesn't essentially mean elemental rock paper scissors (it's all light), just specific buffs to your tools and weapons.
i really would like to see this implemented
Have it be similar to Warhammer, with evil representing Chaos and good representing the Imperials/Blood Ravens.
HERESY MODE. OH YES.
Personally, I like the methods of "magic" that are already in the game; if you want a monster on fire, you use a flint and steel on the ground beneath it. If you want an area "warded" to keep monsters from appearing there, you set up torches.
When and if Notch implements magic, I would prefer to see it in this fashion; not "throw fire and ice at x monster" magic per-say, and only effective when used creatively.
More topic-specific, however; the biggest problem I see with this system is that you would have to have a "morality" variable for every tile in the game, as well as processes to update said variable almost constantly. Those of you who have experienced sunup and sundown on an infinite map, especially on a slow computer, know the level of lag the game goes through when updating a single variable for every tile on every loaded chunk. It would be the exact same process, but at all times.
Not true, i stated that only an extra bit or two is required for actual blocks and only player placed blocks at that, they can only be evil, neutral or good. The aura values of an area would be stored in the 16x16 mapsquares and all natural tiles would take their alignment from that. Scaling aura values for each block would exponentially increase the size of the map files and be more hassle than it's worth.
Person: DARKNESS IS BETTER
Person2: NO LIGHT IS
*Blah Fight*
I mean, I wouldn't care, When MP survival comes out I could just beat them on the head, Or smite them with said magical weapons. :laugh.gif:
But yeah, Awsome idea. :mrgreen:
Chaos wasn't inherently evil either. Chaos gods did whatever it wanted according to the emotion that spawned it. The Imperium wasn't the greatest place either. Check out the 40k book series. It's a good read.
Hallowed be thy domain.
Thy search to come,
Thy results be done..
This is what I am looking for, an unwieldy system of an impractical great power.
When it comes to souls, I like to think of Multiwinia.
When Darwinians die, they leave behind a soul.
This soul can be used for many things, it can be ignored, and it'll go back to the soul collective, it could be collected, and a new darwinian could be born, or it can be consumed by a demon and make it grow stronger. ( Bascially magical capacity )
There are two kinds of special lands like this suggestion talks about, Magical forests ( Blessed Lands ) , and Dark Forests ( Tainted Lands ) .
A magical forest is a great place, given a little while it churns out a soul ( mana? ) , and generally heals people.
A dark forest kills people that trespass its tree line, this places makes things spirited away, they perish, and their souls are lost and unsalvageable, this given time, and enough Darwinains being spirited away, it'll look like a gloomy fog has come upon the forest.
Anyways, I'd like to suggest that there be a third dominate aura ( or at least emphasis its importance ) , neutral.
Basically it is what happens when entropy is given the win.
If to evil, and good lands are left alone, they may cancel eachother out into neutral zones.
But neutral zones are easier to convert to either side.
There are no benefits to killing in a neutral zone.
I'm not willing to go into detail, let's just say - if this were implemented I would weep a tear, for it would be a sad day in the land of Minecraftia.