I wanted to point out something and the big red STOP was a note that I was rebutling
.
Except it is. Fantasy is a fairly substantial super-genre stretching through the entirity of fiction and into some segments of non-fiction.
I have two reputable and concurring definitions of fantasy above. With that said, fantasy INCLUDES any period of fanciful imagination from cyberpunk to steampunk to magitech to magipunk. If it's fantastic, it's fantasy. This includes Blade Runner and other neo-distopia universes.
My question is how does this make guns fit into minecraft? Minecraft has no desegnated time period. So really guns could or could not be in the game.
1) medieval
2) LIST OF FINAL FANTASIES AND ARCHETYPICAL CLASSIFICATION
Final Fantasy I - medieval and cyberpunk hybrid
Final Fantasy II - medieval
These are the only ones i have played a little bit of. I havn't gotten far enough to really tell a difference.
Final Fantasy III - medieval and cyberpunk hybrid
Final Fantasy IV - medieval and steampunk
Final Fantasy V - medieval and steampunk and cyberpunk
Final Fantasy VI - steampunk and magitech
Final Fantasy VII - overrated steampunk and melodramatic cyberpunk
Final Fantasy VIII - Renaissance/Cyberpunk hybrid
Final Fantasy IX - medieval
Final Fantasy X - cyberpunk/classic hybrid
Final Fantasy XI - medieval MMO setting, haven't seen much so not sure past here.
Final Fantasy XII - steampunk
Final Fantasy XIII - Cyberpunk
Final Fantasy XIV - see XI
Final Fantasy XV - unknown
3) Your statement ignores CHRONO TRIGGER;
Which in itself is in a midevil setting.
y'know, only rated as one of the best RPG's ever made in addition to Lucca's obvious anachronistic gun which seemed to fit the period perfectly fine.
You bring up this gun like it helps your point. It is a weapon in an RPG. I don't think time periods were realy a thought when designing weapons. And it shouldn't be.
That's really just a personal opinion. The fact is nothing feels like vanilla Minecraft until it's in vanilla Minecraft. Prior to the addition of Testificates, people said that Minecraft would never have friendly NPCs or currency. Before enchanting and potions, people said that magic didn't fit vanilla Minecraft. Prior to the addition of horses, people said that pigs were all we would ever get, or at the very least that any better mount would be just as outlandish. Before the End was added, it was that there would never be dragons, and one dimension was enough. However, as people get used to playing with new features, they become as much a part of what we recognize as "Minecraft" as those that came before them.
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
I have a fix to the too many Arbequesques problem: Gun Slots!
There would be slots for bows, swords, and guns ( Arbequesques, in this case ) . Slots would limit the amount of swords, bows, or guns to one. When you pick up one of the three, it would go immediately to its assigned slot. When you craft an item, it would go immediately to its slot when you click on it. The slots would be accessible by pressing a button. The default buttons would be: Z; swords, X; bows, C; guns. You would see your sword going straight down on your back, bow from right shoulder to left, and guns from left shoulder to right.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A hunter who chases two rabbits will catch neither
I have a fix to the too many Arbequesques problem: Gun Slots!
There would be slots for bows, swords, and guns ( Arbequesques, in this case ) . Slots would limit the amount of swords, bows, or guns to one. When you pick up one of the three, it would go immediately to its assigned slot. When you craft an item, it would go immediately to its slot when you click on it. The slots would be accessible by pressing a button. The default buttons would be: Z; swords, X; bows, C; guns. You would see your sword going straight down on your back, bow from right shoulder to left, and guns from left shoulder to right.
That's actually not an entirely bad idea, and would certainly free up more options in how loading mechanics could be fairly handled. I think there's only one thing that I can argue about it. It does have a slight problem with being inconsistent. Most tools are used the same way as a weapon would be, and can even double as weapons. Indeed, the Axe is specifically allowed to be enchanted with Sharpness. So, differentiating what is a weapon and what isn't creates problems. Do you add a special slot for every tool and make the hotbar specifically for placeable items? Do you define the sword slot as just a Melee slot and let anything that increases your attack value go there? What about things like the Fishing Rod, which isn't a weapon but has uses in combat. Should it have a quick slot?
This isn't to say the idea is not without merit. I think that if there were a way to limit what can be kept "at ready" at any given time, then you could prevent people abusing the system more easily. Perhaps adjusting things so that, at least where tools are concerned, the hotbar will only accept one of a given item at a time? Of course, even with an equipping limitation, there would be other problems with loading firearms through crafting them. For instance, preserving durability levels and enchantments when you load the weapon. There's also the problem of autoswitching. My understanding is that mods that only manage inventory are able to work even if they aren't installed server-side.
Now, yes, the latter comes down to the argument of "but, people could cheat", but since it's an easily preventable and difficult to detect cheat, it bears mentioning that someone could make a mod that automatically swaps unloaded guns in their hotbar for a loaded gun from their inventory...I'm not up on my modding, but it seems it would even be possible to make a mod that automatically crafts loaded guns if you have ammo on hand. Now, again, I normally don't consider themere possibility of cheating a compelling reason not to do something, but when you have an easily abusable mechanic, and there are other viable options that can prevent the abuse, the simpler solution is to use the alternative mechanic, as opposed to changing many different mechanics to prevent the abuse.
Guns as a generic weapon would not work. They would overshadow the bow and be a bit overpowered. If we have to have a gun based weapon why not portable dispensers?
Huh, this thread has taught me that a good deal of people on the internet have precognitive capabilities and know that any new addition to Minecraft will be OP. Who woulda thought?
it bears mentioning that someone could make a mod that automatically swaps unloaded guns in their hotbar for a loaded gun from their inventory...I'm not up on my modding, but it seems it would even be possible to make a mod that automatically crafts loaded guns if you have ammo on hand.
Considering the amount of mods that automatically organize your inventory, I'm guessing such a thing would be trivial.
Also, as I have mentioned before, I feel that crafting to reload would feel clunky and unpolished.
Oops, sorry for double posting instead of adding it the the previous post.
We need to get anonthemouse or pinballboy7 to take over control of this thread and update OP to reflect the ongoing discussion of this thread.
This includes the many gun suggestions presented, the debate of guns, common logical fallacies used by either side of the debate and why they're discouraged, and the standing positions of either side as of the latest presented update.
You bring up this gun like it helps your point. It is a weapon in an RPG. I don't think time periods were realy a thought when designing weapons. And it shouldn't be.
You're right! I do bring it up like it helps my point because it really does. It's saying that cooking food requires heat and fire would be an effective way to cook food. It's also saying that you can make music using an instrument and a xylophone is an instrument. You see, this is something that we, in the real world, call "affirming a statement with an example."
I make a statement, I provide an example of the statement to back up the statement. I then assume (obviously a poor choice on my part) that the EXAMPLE OF THE STATEMENT would be all the necessary proof of a statement. Apparently I can't just say that a knife is proof that cutlery exists. First, seeing the knife is faulty because that uses the empirical observation of sight. Second, touching the knife is faulty because that uses the empirical observation of touch. Sound? Empirical. Taste? Empirical! Smell? You guessed it, empirical! Then we have the nightmare that, even if the knife existed, you can't just say it's a form of cutlery. There's not enough circumstantial evidence to link the two! Using faulty methods of empirical evidence would just be nonsensical and I must provide far more significant proof than that discredited hogwash. My bad.
Now, let's try this again.
Chrono Trigger is an RPG that takes place in a medieval era (600 and 1000 AD) among other time periods. I would look up several resources to validate this including copies of the game itself, but that is merely heresay and empirical observation and doesn't prove anything, so you'll just have to take this with a grain of salt. It has it's own distinct time periods (again, you'll have to simply take this as an assumption because I don't have a way that I could prove this to you without using any of the 5 senses (empirical observation strikes again)). However, the time period where the gun was invented is considered the late-medieval era. Equivalently, the renaissance of our time.
Because of this, I make a grossly erroneous and highly offensive statement that guns are in medieval era games.
I know, blasphemy. Again, I apologize that I couldn't offer anything that you would accept as credibility or proof to such statements, but as I now know thanks to you, the scientific method, theories, and empirical observation are not valid methods to prove something.
PS. Why don't you try bringing your points out of the quote or actually HIGHLIGHT them a different color so that people can actually see them? It literally took me rereading your message 3 times before I realized that the nested quote was something you wrote.
I was calm when I wrote that, I just made heavy use of literary lambasting to secure a point.
I'm not sure calm and not angry are the same (not?)thing.
Ontopic: Any possibility of a "gas gun"?(More like a spritzer.) You'd load it with a potion and spritz someone(or something) with it, exchanging range and duration of effects for avoidance of friendly fire(in all senses of the term.)
Offtopic again: Your avatar invites a horrible cooking pun.
To be fair, it triggered an "oh really? You want to get unreasonable, let's get unreasonable" nerve.
The spritzer idea is a pretty novel one, I gotta admit. It is most definitely a projectile system, but I don't know if you could call it a gun as it still operates off of mechanical power instead of chemical propulsion.
Still, it may fit simply to bolster the amount of gun types under the umbrella.
Craft reloading is heavily shunned simply because the tedium involved with keeping the weapon reasonably reliable in use. In cases of heavy combat or survival against multiple enemies, craft reloading is simply unfeasible and a better system needs to be put in its place.
INTRODUCING the Bolt Revolver! "God made all men, Bolt made them equal!"
With 6 chambers, the revolver can be fired multiple times before reloading. This means that your gun remains an effective weapon for longer.
You can make a "magazine" to quickly reload the gun with 6 bullets and an iron ingot holding them in place.
Alternatively, if you didn't plan ahead, you can reload the gun with 3 bullets through craft reloading. (gun + 3 bullets), while you have to reload far more often, and there is a 1:2 chance that the chamber is empty, you have a far more reliable weapon than the slow and clumsy musket your uncle used!
Its hard to explain why your suggestion would affect the game in a bad way but I'll give it a try. Like cars, guns don't fit in minecraft. If Mojang adds cars or guns, then the first week it would be super fun, but later it would make more people leave than the amount of new players these updates would gain. Its how the human brain works and it makes sence althrough its super hard to explain why.
Oh... You see, the problem isn't that "guns don't fit", but "how can we make them fit."
On that front, we have 5~10 pages of great concepts that COULD make the idea fit. So while I can totally see where you're coming from; I'm not interested in "why it doesn't." I know lots of reasons why it doesn't. I need to know what needs to change so you would personally see it fitting. If you don't feel that any change could be made, then we reach an impasse and can't communicate further.
Craft reloading is heavily shunned simply because the tedium involved with keeping the weapon reasonably reliable in use. In cases of heavy combat or survival against multiple enemies, craft reloading is simply unfeasible and a better system needs to be put in its place.
INTRODUCING the Bolt Revolver! "God made all men, Bolt made them equal!"
With 6 chambers, the revolver can be fired multiple times before reloading. This means that your gun remains an effective weapon for longer.
You can make a "magazine" to quickly reload the gun with 6 bullets and an iron ingot holding them in place.
Alternatively, if you didn't plan ahead, you can reload the gun with 3 bullets through craft reloading. (gun + 3 bullets), while you have to reload far more often, and there is a 1:2 chance that the chamber is empty, you have a far more reliable weapon than the slow and clumsy musket your uncle used!
Pfft, I didn't even bother to consider that, to be honest
I wanted to simply throw out a way around the "craft to reload" hassle. By increasing the magazine capacity, you increase the desirability to use the mechanic.
But, as is my running theme with guns on this thread, you'll see low damage with high armor piercing.
RANGE: 64 meters (4 chunks), enough to shoot a skeleton safely. Due to the velocity, the bullet's vertical arc is negligable.
DAMAGE: 6 damage (3 hearts)
SPECIAL: Armor piercing, at point blank, ignores 5 armor. Piercing effectiveness decreases by 0.5 armor every 6 meters of distance from the target. At 60 meters, you no longer have armor piercing.
TO CRIT: steady firearm for 2.5 seconds before releasing to fire.
CRITICAL: 7~10 damage (3.5 to 5 hearts)
CRIT SPECIAL: Armor piercing, at point blank, ignores 10 armor. Piercing effectiveness decreases by 0.5 armor every 3 meters of distance from the target. At 60 meters, you no longer have armor piercing.
Just build the darn thing already!
That's really just a personal opinion. The fact is nothing feels like vanilla Minecraft until it's in vanilla Minecraft. Prior to the addition of Testificates, people said that Minecraft would never have friendly NPCs or currency. Before enchanting and potions, people said that magic didn't fit vanilla Minecraft. Prior to the addition of horses, people said that pigs were all we would ever get, or at the very least that any better mount would be just as outlandish. Before the End was added, it was that there would never be dragons, and one dimension was enough. However, as people get used to playing with new features, they become as much a part of what we recognize as "Minecraft" as those that came before them.
Or, given how badly emeralds don't work in vanilla, that we still don't have currency :-).
* Promoting this week: Captive Minecraft 4, Winter Realm. Aka: Vertical Vanilla Viewing. Clicky!
* My channel with Mystcraft, and general Minecraft Let's Plays: http://www.youtube.com/user/Keybounce.
* See all my video series: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-editions/minecraft-editions-show-your/2865421-keybounces-list-of-creation-threads
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
oh hi there
I dont own that gif by the way, dont sue me.
There would be slots for bows, swords, and guns ( Arbequesques, in this case ) . Slots would limit the amount of swords, bows, or guns to one. When you pick up one of the three, it would go immediately to its assigned slot. When you craft an item, it would go immediately to its slot when you click on it. The slots would be accessible by pressing a button. The default buttons would be: Z; swords, X; bows, C; guns. You would see your sword going straight down on your back, bow from right shoulder to left, and guns from left shoulder to right.
That's actually not an entirely bad idea, and would certainly free up more options in how loading mechanics could be fairly handled. I think there's only one thing that I can argue about it. It does have a slight problem with being inconsistent. Most tools are used the same way as a weapon would be, and can even double as weapons. Indeed, the Axe is specifically allowed to be enchanted with Sharpness. So, differentiating what is a weapon and what isn't creates problems. Do you add a special slot for every tool and make the hotbar specifically for placeable items? Do you define the sword slot as just a Melee slot and let anything that increases your attack value go there? What about things like the Fishing Rod, which isn't a weapon but has uses in combat. Should it have a quick slot?
This isn't to say the idea is not without merit. I think that if there were a way to limit what can be kept "at ready" at any given time, then you could prevent people abusing the system more easily. Perhaps adjusting things so that, at least where tools are concerned, the hotbar will only accept one of a given item at a time? Of course, even with an equipping limitation, there would be other problems with loading firearms through crafting them. For instance, preserving durability levels and enchantments when you load the weapon. There's also the problem of autoswitching. My understanding is that mods that only manage inventory are able to work even if they aren't installed server-side.
Now, yes, the latter comes down to the argument of "but, people could cheat", but since it's an easily preventable and difficult to detect cheat, it bears mentioning that someone could make a mod that automatically swaps unloaded guns in their hotbar for a loaded gun from their inventory...I'm not up on my modding, but it seems it would even be possible to make a mod that automatically crafts loaded guns if you have ammo on hand. Now, again, I normally don't consider the mere possibility of cheating a compelling reason not to do something, but when you have an easily abusable mechanic, and there are other viable options that can prevent the abuse, the simpler solution is to use the alternative mechanic, as opposed to changing many different mechanics to prevent the abuse.
Huh, this thread has taught me that a good deal of people on the internet have precognitive capabilities and know that any new addition to Minecraft will be OP. Who woulda thought?
Considering the amount of mods that automatically organize your inventory, I'm guessing such a thing would be trivial.
Also, as I have mentioned before, I feel that crafting to reload would feel clunky and unpolished.
Oops, sorry for double posting instead of adding it the the previous post.
This includes the many gun suggestions presented, the debate of guns, common logical fallacies used by either side of the debate and why they're discouraged, and the standing positions of either side as of the latest presented update.
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You're right! I do bring it up like it helps my point because it really does. It's saying that cooking food requires heat and fire would be an effective way to cook food. It's also saying that you can make music using an instrument and a xylophone is an instrument. You see, this is something that we, in the real world, call "affirming a statement with an example."
I make a statement, I provide an example of the statement to back up the statement. I then assume (obviously a poor choice on my part) that the EXAMPLE OF THE STATEMENT would be all the necessary proof of a statement. Apparently I can't just say that a knife is proof that cutlery exists. First, seeing the knife is faulty because that uses the empirical observation of sight. Second, touching the knife is faulty because that uses the empirical observation of touch. Sound? Empirical. Taste? Empirical! Smell? You guessed it, empirical! Then we have the nightmare that, even if the knife existed, you can't just say it's a form of cutlery. There's not enough circumstantial evidence to link the two! Using faulty methods of empirical evidence would just be nonsensical and I must provide far more significant proof than that discredited hogwash. My bad.
Now, let's try this again.
Chrono Trigger is an RPG that takes place in a medieval era (600 and 1000 AD) among other time periods. I would look up several resources to validate this including copies of the game itself, but that is merely heresay and empirical observation and doesn't prove anything, so you'll just have to take this with a grain of salt. It has it's own distinct time periods (again, you'll have to simply take this as an assumption because I don't have a way that I could prove this to you without using any of the 5 senses (empirical observation strikes again)). However, the time period where the gun was invented is considered the late-medieval era. Equivalently, the renaissance of our time.
Because of this, I make a grossly erroneous and highly offensive statement that guns are in medieval era games.
I know, blasphemy. Again, I apologize that I couldn't offer anything that you would accept as credibility or proof to such statements, but as I now know thanks to you, the scientific method, theories, and empirical observation are not valid methods to prove something.
PS. Why don't you try bringing your points out of the quote or actually HIGHLIGHT them a different color so that people can actually see them? It literally took me rereading your message 3 times before I realized that the nested quote was something you wrote.
OFFICIAL POSTING/REPLYING GUIDELINES
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Remind me not to refer you to a radical creationist.
Or maybe I should. Should serve him right.
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Wow...I've never seen you get like that. I always thought of you as being really calm...I'm going to be careful to avoid making you angry.
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I'm not sure calm and not angry are the same (not?)thing.
Ontopic: Any possibility of a "gas gun"?(More like a spritzer.) You'd load it with a potion and spritz someone(or something) with it, exchanging range and duration of effects for avoidance of friendly fire(in all senses of the term.)
Offtopic again: Your avatar invites a horrible cooking pun.
The spritzer idea is a pretty novel one, I gotta admit. It is most definitely a projectile system, but I don't know if you could call it a gun as it still operates off of mechanical power instead of chemical propulsion.
Still, it may fit simply to bolster the amount of gun types under the umbrella.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CRAFT RELOADING: Why it's shunned.
Craft reloading is heavily shunned simply because the tedium involved with keeping the weapon reasonably reliable in use. In cases of heavy combat or survival against multiple enemies, craft reloading is simply unfeasible and a better system needs to be put in its place.
INTRODUCING the Bolt Revolver! "God made all men, Bolt made them equal!"
With 6 chambers, the revolver can be fired multiple times before reloading. This means that your gun remains an effective weapon for longer.
You can make a "magazine" to quickly reload the gun with 6 bullets and an iron ingot holding them in place.
Alternatively, if you didn't plan ahead, you can reload the gun with 3 bullets through craft reloading. (gun + 3 bullets), while you have to reload far more often, and there is a 1:2 chance that the chamber is empty, you have a far more reliable weapon than the slow and clumsy musket your uncle used!
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On that front, we have 5~10 pages of great concepts that COULD make the idea fit. So while I can totally see where you're coming from; I'm not interested in "why it doesn't." I know lots of reasons why it doesn't. I need to know what needs to change so you would personally see it fitting. If you don't feel that any change could be made, then we reach an impasse and can't communicate further.
OFFICIAL POSTING/REPLYING GUIDELINES
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What damage does it do? What's it's range?
I wanted to simply throw out a way around the "craft to reload" hassle. By increasing the magazine capacity, you increase the desirability to use the mechanic.
But, as is my running theme with guns on this thread, you'll see low damage with high armor piercing.
RANGE: 64 meters (4 chunks), enough to shoot a skeleton safely. Due to the velocity, the bullet's vertical arc is negligable.
DAMAGE: 6 damage (3 hearts)
SPECIAL: Armor piercing, at point blank, ignores 5 armor. Piercing effectiveness decreases by 0.5 armor every 6 meters of distance from the target. At 60 meters, you no longer have armor piercing.
TO CRIT: steady firearm for 2.5 seconds before releasing to fire.
CRITICAL: 7~10 damage (3.5 to 5 hearts)
CRIT SPECIAL: Armor piercing, at point blank, ignores 10 armor. Piercing effectiveness decreases by 0.5 armor every 3 meters of distance from the target. At 60 meters, you no longer have armor piercing.
OFFICIAL POSTING/REPLYING GUIDELINES
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