Terrain seeds are useful to:
1. Generate a globally unique landscape in the Overworld and Nether
2. Provide a method of establishing "levels" in Minecraft which can be shared with others
3. Get a good mix of world properties close to spawn
This thread is to suggest that Mojang have got the following basically right and to show support for the pace of terrain development in the weekly snaphshots:
4. Biomes
5: Caves, tunnels and ravines
6. Mineshafts, villages and other structures
Why? Partly as a home for dissenting voices who have been evicted from other threads. Mostly to reinforce the message that Mojang is doing the right thing by the game in the current release and snapshots. Show your support below.
(Suggestion: Play PE to be reminded what the world was like ”before")
Extreme hills on 12w21b, with Seed “-9028489474908844496” (below)
I do think the terrain generation is getting better in the latest snapshots, not just in Extreme Hills but in other biomes as well. I don't have the pictures with me, but the new hills and mountains make deserts or forests look much nicer.
(I quoted your post because I agree with it; this isn't a direct reply to it :P)
I do think the terrain generation is getting better in the latest snapshots, not just in Extreme Hills but in other biomes as well. I don't have the pictures with me, but the new hills and mountains make deserts or forests look much nicer.
I agree. I'd love some of your pictures when you get a chance.
the seeds should be like pre 1.8 where they were actually very different, where now they are pretty much the same world with some small change, like a mountain over here a ravine over there and maybe a village right over there that's about that is different with worlds nowadays
As for abrightmoore: these are all extreme hills biomes and that is one of the major points of people who don't like the new terrain. Mountains have become a biome! That is horrible. You have obviously never experienced the old terrain in which mountains could occur in any biome and have many characteristics.
Terrain seeds are useful to:
1. Generate a globally unique landscape in the Overworld and Nether
2. Provide a method of establishing "levels" in Minecraft which can be shared with others
3. Get a good mix of world properties close to spawn
This thread is to suggest that Mojang have got the following basically right and to show support for the pace of terrain development in the weekly snaphshots:
4. Biomes
5: Caves, tunnels and ravines
6. Mineshafts, villages and other structures
1. The overworld and the nether are lacking a lot of variety. I'm sure you've seen tons of threads concerning this so I won't go into detail.
2. Literally that is extremely true. But the title of the thread you're making contrast of is not literal. It is an exaggeration, not being literal at all. It is used to draw attention and create emphasis on the problem people think Minecraft has.
3. That can be implied anywhere. Currently, all seeds are only good for initial spawning location and ravines/mineshafts/biome placement/etc. Nothing really special because once you've seen it once, you've seen it all.
4. Biomes are lacking in variety (and I think we had more pre-1.8). Many properties seemed to be forcefully thrown in our faces every time we visit a specific biome. Height variation for example is one of them. Again, several threads have been made concerning this, so I won't go into detail. Mojang might be giving the terrain some attention, but they've only made noticeable improvements in the "large biomes" option. One of the original problems was that hills were seemingly nonexistent. Jeb made a tweet concerning the flatness of the terrain and made a change (which I think was adding the X-hills biomes). Many players like myself would rather have full random height variation than miniscule height variation spammed together. Improvement might be going in the right direction, but it's extremely slow and I think they should have a whole update(s) devoted to the terrain.
5. The underground generation has turned to ****. There's no escaping this fact. Find one cave and you're set for life. Find one ravine and you're set for life. They need to return smaller caves to the generator/ rarefy ravines/ rarefy mineshafts/etc. No improvements have been made with the underground generation.
6. Villages I will admit are cool, and so are the new structures. But they serve no relevancy to what many threads are talking about.
IN RESPONSE TO YOUR PICTURES: I don't get what you're trying to show us. Every comeback to the height variation problem has been "look at this picture" "look at that picture." And every picture either shows the extreme hills biome or a jungle. These biomes obviously have height variation and have always had them ever since they were first implemented. We get it. They're there. We want height variation in the other biomes too. The problem with biomes such as extreme hills and jungles is that every piece of high y-coordinate land is spammed together. Mountains/hills should have the chance to be more spread out. Your pictures prove nothing.
Seeds are useful in a literal sense. If you're trying to make a plausible argument against the people who think the terrain is lacking variety, you have failed... miserably.
Mate... That Mt. is NOTHING like the old ones. sure its has an arch, but ONE tree, NO WATER or any other factor i miss from 1.6.3, i'm not saying i want the old generation back. but its BORING!!!! P.S. This thread is just to combat the recent Terrain Seeds Are Useless! And Here's Why:
The old generator has bugs. The new generator has bugfixes. The old generator has no biomes. The new generator has many biomes. The old generator had small and conquerable caves. The new has giant caves you will never find an end to. The old generator had no structures. The new generator has buggy and disrupting structures that have a chance to destroy other features.
Ladies and gentlemen, minecraft used to be a game of fantasy. A game where the fog in the distance made you feel the sharp, crisp air against your skin, and finding things and collecting resources was a fun challenge. A game where you could see anything from a towering mountain littered with charming trees sitting on a small plain, to scattered hills, tops of some trees barely visible. You could find a river clearing split by a large delta, and more charming islands past. Before you think I'm nostalgic, I'll talk about the new generator. Now, minecraft is a game of diversity. Giant, spammed mountains, devoid of life spout across the landscape, hard to cross except by the unchanging land around it. Deserts and plains now make up more of the landscape. Features have become easy to find and repetitive, and caves are now unconquerable, and go on forever. Instead of the unique and varying terrain, seeds are shown for the structure generation, pretty much implying "here you go, now you don't have to work for it." If you had found an NPC village yourself, this would be much more thrilling. Most seeds only cover the spawn and things near it. Wouldn't you like a seed that keeps being as amazing as the spawn 160 chunks away? Even the forests have lost their hills, and rarely spout past 80 blocks, which, remembering 64 is the sea level, is sad.
I will say this, the old generator was nice. I don't want it back, though. The new generator needs work. I am fine with the new generator being the way it is, so long as it is mastered, which right now it is not. The new generator is supposed to make you feel as if you have a sense of living in a certain place, and find certain things. Like each biome is a new adventure, just waiting to be explored. With gigantic tiaga generated next to flat deserts, and huge mountains devoid of life and trees? Every biome feels like a chore. In the swamp, you must deal with lilypads and the ugly colors. In the jungle, you must find your way past the cluttered ground floor and scattered leaves before you can make it out. In the desert, if night falls, you are in serious trouble, same as the plains. In the ocean, you must endure days and days of sailing before finding any land suitable for inhabiting; as some examples.
Again, I don't want the old generator back. I'm fine with the new generator, as long as Mojang can make it feel like an adventure again. Bring back the thrills, the hills, and make the generator generate things that will make our eye pop out of our heads, not throw up through our corneas.
Fact: the terrain is better in the new snapshots. Epic overhangs, and more.
Fact: terrain SEEDS being USEFUL are completely unrelated to TERRAIN being INTERESTING.
Fact: terrain seeds are useless, because every similar typed biome are basically the same. Sure, extreme hills, and maybe desert biomes, have crazy terrain, but if the crazy terrain is similar in each extreme hills/desert biome you come across, what is the point? The reason for this is because after 1.8, each biome is generated by a separate strip of code, whereas before it was completely free, biomes only adding things like snow, trees, etc, and not terrain itself.
Fact: shock and awe, the biome generation code for one desert biome is THE SAME as it will be for the next one you find.
Fact: Jeb apparently thinks that the community wants crazy terrain everywhere, when what they want is diversity from biome to biome.
Fact: the easiest fix would be to make biomes generate according to terrain, not terrain according to biome.
Fact: your argument is invalid.
Fact: the terrain is better in the new snapshots. Epic overhangs, and more.
Fact: terrain SEEDS being USEFUL are completely unrelated to TERRAIN being INTERESTING.
Fact: terrain seeds are useless, because every similar typed biome are basically the same. Sure, extreme hills, and maybe desert biomes, have crazy terrain, but if the crazy terrain is similar in each extreme hills/desert biome you come across, what is the point? The reason for this is because after 1.8, each biome is generated by a separate strip of code, whereas before it was completely free, biomes only adding things like snow, trees, etc, and not terrain itself.
Fact: shock and awe, the biome generation code for one desert biome is THE SAME as it will be for the next one you find.
Fact: Jeb apparently thinks that the community wants crazy terrain everywhere, when what they want is diversity from biome to biome.
Fact: the easiest fix would be to make biomes generate according to terrain, not terrain according to biome.
Fact: your argument is invalid.
Are you replying to OP or the post above? Re: 1. The terrain was also more interesting in pre-1.8 than in the actual release. Not to say that this is destine to be redundant to 1.8, but I'll be keeping my eyes open. 2. You're right, and I think I might've gotten a bit fuzzy there myself, but the fact that you can relate terrain being interesting to seeds being useless, because as you point out later in your post, the generation code for biomes is the same on each one. There is no uniqueness, and seeds are used to show unique things on minecraft. If there is none there is no point. Does that make sense to you? 3. Agreed. 4. Agreed. 5. I don't really know what to say about that. I'd guess we'd want interesting and fun terrain, not like wedge with the insanity level (or whatever it's called) on 100%. 6. That would work out, most of the time. 7. This is why I don't know who you're replying to. Point out what part of my argument you think is invalid, if I'm the one you're replying to?
Are you replying to OP or the post above? Re: 1. The terrain was also more interesting in pre-1.8 than in the actual release. Not to say that this is destine to be redundant to 1.8, but I'll be keeping my eyes open. 2. You're right, and I think I might've gotten a bit fuzzy there myself, but the fact that you can relate terrain being interesting to seeds being useless, because as you point out later in your post, the generation code for biomes is the same on each one. There is no uniqueness, and seeds are used to show unique things on minecraft. If there is none there is no point. Does that make sense to you? 3. Agreed. 4. Agreed. 5. I don't really know what to say about that. I'd guess we'd want interesting and fun terrain, not like wedge with the insanity level (or whatever it's called) on 100%. 6. That would work out, most of the time. 7. This is why I don't know who you're replying to. Point out what part of my argument you think is invalid, if I'm the one you're replying to?
You were great in "Return of the Jedi":
'Come, boy, see for yourself. From here, you will witness the final destruction of the Alliance and the end of your insignificant rebellion'.
Chilling stuff.
Maybe I am just waiting for another ten or twenty pages and then I will respond to every comment by every poster right from the first reply, with a couple of "if you disagree what are you doing on my thread!" thrown in randomly for good measure.
Actually it is worth restating that I reckon the current snapshot terrain is pretty much spot on excellent and a good solution in the game. The large biomes provides the overhangs experience much applauded by all, and if the lack of trees is an issue I spend a minute dropping saplings around and ... Presto! Problem solved.
I am happy that plains are not mountainous, and I am a little bewildered by the people who seem to want them to be. I am pleased occasionally when there's a biome intersection thoug. It is that sort of game. I think it is healthy to have to hunt for the perfect landscape in one world instead of rolling up "Gargamel" or "glacier" on everyone's PC.
I got rolled by Mojang by buying the PE edition and, frankly I should have known better. The Golden Age is a myth. minecraft is a fantastic game now... And the snapshots are better.
I think the oceans are great and I frequently join forces with the kids to conquer the expansive ( but mob infested ) mines that snake for miles underneath the water. We return to our rejuvinated desert village to sort out the spoils.
But don't mind me. Carry on being offended by my personal opinion, if that makes you happy.
While I myself am a fan of the new world generation and in no way support the thread that this one is spun off of, suggesting that mojang doesn't change something is not suggesting anything. What's more, this is only going to attract flame posts. Whether Mojang decides to stay the course, revert to older generation, or do something completely different, there will be people who are for and against it.
Locking Reason: Not an actual suggestion.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
1. Generate a globally unique landscape in the Overworld and Nether
2. Provide a method of establishing "levels" in Minecraft which can be shared with others
3. Get a good mix of world properties close to spawn
This thread is to suggest that Mojang have got the following basically right and to show support for the pace of terrain development in the weekly snaphshots:
4. Biomes
5: Caves, tunnels and ravines
6. Mineshafts, villages and other structures
Why? Partly as a home for dissenting voices who have been evicted from other threads. Mostly to reinforce the message that Mojang is doing the right thing by the game in the current release and snapshots. Show your support below.
(Suggestion: Play PE to be reminded what the world was like ”before")
Extreme hills on 12w21b, with Seed “-9028489474908844496” (below)
Near spawn on 1.2.5 seed ‘4606956064124151847’.
From Minecraft Forums thread: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1223352-people-please-check-this-out/ (below)
I do think the terrain generation is getting better in the latest snapshots, not just in Extreme Hills but in other biomes as well. I don't have the pictures with me, but the new hills and mountains make deserts or forests look much nicer.
(I quoted your post because I agree with it; this isn't a direct reply to it :P)
I agree. I'd love some of your pictures when you get a chance.
1. The overworld and the nether are lacking a lot of variety. I'm sure you've seen tons of threads concerning this so I won't go into detail.
2. Literally that is extremely true. But the title of the thread you're making contrast of is not literal. It is an exaggeration, not being literal at all. It is used to draw attention and create emphasis on the problem people think Minecraft has.
3. That can be implied anywhere. Currently, all seeds are only good for initial spawning location and ravines/mineshafts/biome placement/etc. Nothing really special because once you've seen it once, you've seen it all.
4. Biomes are lacking in variety (and I think we had more pre-1.8). Many properties seemed to be forcefully thrown in our faces every time we visit a specific biome. Height variation for example is one of them. Again, several threads have been made concerning this, so I won't go into detail. Mojang might be giving the terrain some attention, but they've only made noticeable improvements in the "large biomes" option. One of the original problems was that hills were seemingly nonexistent. Jeb made a tweet concerning the flatness of the terrain and made a change (which I think was adding the X-hills biomes). Many players like myself would rather have full random height variation than miniscule height variation spammed together. Improvement might be going in the right direction, but it's extremely slow and I think they should have a whole update(s) devoted to the terrain.
5. The underground generation has turned to ****. There's no escaping this fact. Find one cave and you're set for life. Find one ravine and you're set for life. They need to return smaller caves to the generator/ rarefy ravines/ rarefy mineshafts/etc. No improvements have been made with the underground generation.
6. Villages I will admit are cool, and so are the new structures. But they serve no relevancy to what many threads are talking about.
IN RESPONSE TO YOUR PICTURES: I don't get what you're trying to show us. Every comeback to the height variation problem has been "look at this picture" "look at that picture." And every picture either shows the extreme hills biome or a jungle. These biomes obviously have height variation and have always had them ever since they were first implemented. We get it. They're there. We want height variation in the other biomes too. The problem with biomes such as extreme hills and jungles is that every piece of high y-coordinate land is spammed together. Mountains/hills should have the chance to be more spread out. Your pictures prove nothing.
Seeds are useful in a literal sense. If you're trying to make a plausible argument against the people who think the terrain is lacking variety, you have failed... miserably.
Terrain Seeds Are Useless! And Here's Why:
Thread.
SuggestionForumCriticLytesonTeamMember
LINK TO GOLD GUARDIAN THREAD
Ladies and gentlemen, minecraft used to be a game of fantasy. A game where the fog in the distance made you feel the sharp, crisp air against your skin, and finding things and collecting resources was a fun challenge. A game where you could see anything from a towering mountain littered with charming trees sitting on a small plain, to scattered hills, tops of some trees barely visible. You could find a river clearing split by a large delta, and more charming islands past. Before you think I'm nostalgic, I'll talk about the new generator. Now, minecraft is a game of diversity. Giant, spammed mountains, devoid of life spout across the landscape, hard to cross except by the unchanging land around it. Deserts and plains now make up more of the landscape. Features have become easy to find and repetitive, and caves are now unconquerable, and go on forever. Instead of the unique and varying terrain, seeds are shown for the structure generation, pretty much implying "here you go, now you don't have to work for it." If you had found an NPC village yourself, this would be much more thrilling. Most seeds only cover the spawn and things near it. Wouldn't you like a seed that keeps being as amazing as the spawn 160 chunks away? Even the forests have lost their hills, and rarely spout past 80 blocks, which, remembering 64 is the sea level, is sad.
I will say this, the old generator was nice. I don't want it back, though. The new generator needs work. I am fine with the new generator being the way it is, so long as it is mastered, which right now it is not. The new generator is supposed to make you feel as if you have a sense of living in a certain place, and find certain things. Like each biome is a new adventure, just waiting to be explored. With gigantic tiaga generated next to flat deserts, and huge mountains devoid of life and trees? Every biome feels like a chore. In the swamp, you must deal with lilypads and the ugly colors. In the jungle, you must find your way past the cluttered ground floor and scattered leaves before you can make it out. In the desert, if night falls, you are in serious trouble, same as the plains. In the ocean, you must endure days and days of sailing before finding any land suitable for inhabiting; as some examples.
Again, I don't want the old generator back. I'm fine with the new generator, as long as Mojang can make it feel like an adventure again. Bring back the thrills, the hills, and make the generator generate things that will make our eye pop out of our heads, not throw up through our corneas.
Fact: terrain SEEDS being USEFUL are completely unrelated to TERRAIN being INTERESTING.
Fact: terrain seeds are useless, because every similar typed biome are basically the same. Sure, extreme hills, and maybe desert biomes, have crazy terrain, but if the crazy terrain is similar in each extreme hills/desert biome you come across, what is the point? The reason for this is because after 1.8, each biome is generated by a separate strip of code, whereas before it was completely free, biomes only adding things like snow, trees, etc, and not terrain itself.
Fact: shock and awe, the biome generation code for one desert biome is THE SAME as it will be for the next one you find.
Fact: Jeb apparently thinks that the community wants crazy terrain everywhere, when what they want is diversity from biome to biome.
Fact: the easiest fix would be to make biomes generate according to terrain, not terrain according to biome.
Fact: your argument is invalid.
Are you replying to OP or the post above? Re: 1. The terrain was also more interesting in pre-1.8 than in the actual release. Not to say that this is destine to be redundant to 1.8, but I'll be keeping my eyes open. 2. You're right, and I think I might've gotten a bit fuzzy there myself, but the fact that you can relate terrain being interesting to seeds being useless, because as you point out later in your post, the generation code for biomes is the same on each one. There is no uniqueness, and seeds are used to show unique things on minecraft. If there is none there is no point. Does that make sense to you? 3. Agreed. 4. Agreed. 5. I don't really know what to say about that. I'd guess we'd want interesting and fun terrain, not like wedge with the insanity level (or whatever it's called) on 100%. 6. That would work out, most of the time. 7. This is why I don't know who you're replying to. Point out what part of my argument you think is invalid, if I'm the one you're replying to?
I was replying to OP.
You were great in "Return of the Jedi":
'Come, boy, see for yourself. From here, you will witness the final destruction of the Alliance and the end of your insignificant rebellion'.
Chilling stuff.
Maybe I am just waiting for another ten or twenty pages and then I will respond to every comment by every poster right from the first reply, with a couple of "if you disagree what are you doing on my thread!" thrown in randomly for good measure.
Actually it is worth restating that I reckon the current snapshot terrain is pretty much spot on excellent and a good solution in the game. The large biomes provides the overhangs experience much applauded by all, and if the lack of trees is an issue I spend a minute dropping saplings around and ... Presto! Problem solved.
I am happy that plains are not mountainous, and I am a little bewildered by the people who seem to want them to be. I am pleased occasionally when there's a biome intersection thoug. It is that sort of game. I think it is healthy to have to hunt for the perfect landscape in one world instead of rolling up "Gargamel" or "glacier" on everyone's PC.
I got rolled by Mojang by buying the PE edition and, frankly I should have known better. The Golden Age is a myth. minecraft is a fantastic game now... And the snapshots are better.
I think the oceans are great and I frequently join forces with the kids to conquer the expansive ( but mob infested ) mines that snake for miles underneath the water. We return to our rejuvinated desert village to sort out the spoils.
But don't mind me. Carry on being offended by my personal opinion, if that makes you happy.
Locking Reason: Not an actual suggestion.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum