solis: Actually, I think the blocks should just stay there automatically, with the option of removal being left to choice. It'd be incredibly annoying for a whole bunch of people to build a massive fortress/structure, and then they suddenly leave without saving. Their part of the structure instantly disappears? No, that'd be unfair to everyone else.
yeah youre right
perhaps the OP would have the option to delete the blocks when they were kicked or left. because if not, then griefers would enter, build a bunch of blocks, and leave (before kicked), and then noone could delete them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Eighth Blocks. Plox. It would make me so very happy. (click it!)
Water is planed to be semi limited by notch, so there will always be water from the ocean possible, but if water is not coming from the ocean, it won't infinitely create it's self anymore.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
<TrueWolves> That's what I meant Iguana, I'm like an Extra+, to just fill in tiny cracks... right?
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
Hey, as much as these are all cool ideas. I'd just love to be able to ban a loser and not have him come back 20 seconds later on a new account or not to just go to another server and do the same.
My suggestion is to see IP logging and allowing 1 account per IP per day, WITH exceptions being emailed upwards if need be. I know it can be problematic with large dorms using the same IP and so on - but really - it is NEEDED. I also know there is IP banning but why not just cut it off at the roots? and as a regular OP I have no access to IP's and such (or do I?)
My second suggestion is a karma system. If a player has been banned from x servers he should be IP banned altogether.... I'd hate to see the server I'm on go private because of dicks when we wanna show off our art to others! Also an option to backup the server after x amount of minutes and give ALL OPs the power to revert it back to that state would be helpful to prevent griefers...
Basically, everyone's blocks are "theirs" and unable to be modified by anyone but yourself. If you're working on a collab, you can add someone to your "buddy" system and then they're able to modify your blocks as well.
@IzzehO: There is a few things you can use to back up your previously saved level every x amount of minutes. You can go to the old forums and search the word "Python" but I get a general error every time i try to go to any of the 3 listed topics so I'm not sure if they're still accessible.
@Grif: that would lead to griefers building undeletable objects or boxing players in in undeletable boxes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
B^lxxD^ lyfe
My Darwin fish evolved and ate your jesus fish.
Oh no! Griefers! They will destroy all your stuff! They are unstoppable forces of nature, and will destroy everything in sight!
No, they don't. Introducing stupid game mechanics to "stop" griefers simply makes the game crappier. The only thing that can stop a griefer, is a good admin (and perhaps a server setting that can be toggled that requires players to be validated before they can build / destroy).
Batosai: Good point. But you can just respawn outside. The only problem is if the griefers put blocks all over the place and make it look ugly, that'd be bad.
Krynvelhat: What's to stop a griefer from acting all innocent and trustworthy, then going on a sneaky deleting spree?
I'm with Krynvelhat on this one. Don't make loads of stuff necessary to start playing just because of idiots.
A simple votekick procedure should work. As long as a predetermined percentage or number (%s don't make sense of there are 32 people on the server, I'd say 5 or 6 are enough) of the players chose to kick some guy, he'd get kicked. The number or % could be higher for a voteban.
It'd also be much better if you didn't have to type it in the console, which might be a bother for a few of the players. A simple point and click interface would be handy.
Oh no! Griefers! They will destroy all your stuff! They are unstoppable forces of nature, and will destroy everything in sight!
No, they don't. Introducing stupid game mechanics to "stop" griefers simply makes the game crappier. The only thing that can stop a griefer, is a good admin (and perhaps a server setting that can be toggled that requires players to be validated before they can build / destroy).
^
Obvious greifer. I suggest preemptively banning this guy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Survival" is a film/literature/video game genre about survival and self-sufficiency in the wild.
"Survival of the fittest" is a phrase used to paraphrase natural selection.
Idea: Allow modifications, but make it easy to undo them. Version control for all modifications and offer the possibility to undo modifications in the bulk. Undoing could be done by geographic area (revert to some previous version) and/or by user.
Of course, designing a good UI for this would be a very hard and implementing it wouldn't be easy either.
And another one: Public banlist - if a username is banned - lets say [total number of players]/[total number of servers] - times, that acc gets on a public IP-banlist. That, of course, would then be a serverioption.
Still griefers can group up and ban everyone, so everyone gets to the public IP list.
I'm with Krynvelhat on this one. Don't make loads of stuff necessary to start playing just because of idiots.
A simple votekick procedure should work. As long as a predetermined percentage or number (%s don't make sense of there are 32 people on the server, I'd say 5 or 6 are enough) of the players chose to kick some guy, he'd get kicked. The number or % could be higher for a voteban.
It'd also be much better if you didn't have to type it in the console, which might be a bother for a few of the players. A simple point and click interface would be handy.
This is silly. I have been in games where people have claimed that someone is griefing, and with the current system, there is NO WAY to tell if they're telling the truth.
On the Huge maps that are being used in Multiplayer, something needs to be implemented to at least identify who it is that's griefing.
Maybe next to everyone's name in the Tab list, you can have a number displaying how many blocks they've deleted in the last 5 minutes (the only problem being that, anyone making a tunnel can cause a griefer to go "Ohh, this person is griefing, ban them!" Maybe only count blocks that were not map generated). With something this simple, as well as a votekick (probably with a SHORT ban, in order to stop it from being abused), it would be easier, but still not easy, to slow the griefing down.
a) Chances of griefers grouping up - Minimal
:cool.gif: /teleport needs to be shortened to /t or /goto
c) /stop should be implemented to freeze a persons actions
d) Vote Kick is the best possible system to use (refer to point [a] about abuse by griefers
e) Get real, griefers will ALWAYS happen on public servers - Can't deal with it? Go private.
f) OWNERSHIP is a system not worth implementing due to memory constraints, abuse and general annoyance
g) Don't complain that an OP isn't dealing with griefers, if you don't think their doing a good job, make your own server
I have seen it happen where several come in at once. Don't underestimate the organizational power of places like 4chan.
"b) /teleport needs to be shortened to /t or /goto "
Absolutely
"c) /stop should be implemented to freeze a persons actions"
I think this, or a similar idea /noalter idea seems to be getting the most traction here.
"e) Get real, griefers will ALWAYS happen on public servers - Can't deal with it? Go private."
Perhaps, but right now it is too easy. It is a losing battle right now, and ALL of the public servers are suffering horribly. There are only a handful right now that are not a complete wasteland, and it's really only a matter of time before some stupid griefer finds the right window and destroys those too.
"f) OWNERSHIP is a system not worth implementing due to memory constraints, abuse and general annoyance"
Almost certainly true. If Notch is using a 3D array for the world, and I would assume he was, block ownership would kill performance.
"g) Don't complain that an OP isn't dealing with griefers, if you don't think their doing a good job, make your own server"
Ops can't be everywhere and on all the time. They are not omnipotent and omniscient. Even the best admined servers will get hit hard and repeatedly. They need the program to make their job easier and the griefers job harder, because right now the program gives the griefers the advantage.
I think one thing to keep in mind is that once the game goes official and requires people to pay to buy it, the % of griefers will likely dramatically decrease since I doubt many people are going to pay actual money just so they can go on and randomly destroy stuff.
That being said, I do think steps should be taken to combat griefing.
I like the idea of a tier system of Host-->Admins-->Members-->Visitors.
Using this system, Admins can promote Visitors to Members and the Host can do this in addition to promoting Members to Admins.
There should be a kick system in place. Perhaps Members can start a vote to kick other Members and Visitors while Visitors can only start a vote to kick other Visitors; Admins can not be kicked with a vote. I agree that there should be some sort of minimum requirement *in addition* to needing a majority vote, perhaps a minimum of 3 votes in favor of kicking. Admins can instantly kick any Member or Visitor and only the Host can kick Admins.
I also think there should be a permanent block system of sorts in place. In this system, people can delete blocks belonging to those of their tier or lower. Since griefers would very likely never go higher than Visitor status, they would only be able to at worst delete some of the ground and blocks belonging to other Visitors. In addition, if a person is on another person's friend list, that person can delete blocks made by the other person regardless of tier rank. Furthermore, I think two options should be given to the Host either at any given time or at server creation/reset: Time Limit and Tier. If Tier is turned on, than block deletion follows the tier system described in this paragraph, but if it is turned off than the server acts the way it is now where anyone can delete any block. The second option, Time Limit, can only be turned on if Tier is turned on and what it does is if a person has not been on the server for a set amount of time than regardless of tier rank that person's blocks become destroyable by everyone. Time Limit could be useful for situations like if an Admin quits the game or does not go online for a week or more and the Members of the server want to use space taken up by that Admin's buildings for something else.
Also, I'm not sure if it would make a difference, but if a block ownership system would cause a ton of lag, than what if once a person is promoted once they log off the server and back on they load up with a new set of blocks that look exactly the same but which react differently (destructible/indestructible) based upon tier rank. For example, if a person is a Visitor than they have a Visitor Sand Block that can be destroyed by anyone, but if they are promoted than if they log off the server when they log back in they'll get a small patch that changes their Visitor Sand Block (and every other Visitor Block) to a Member Sand Block which reacts to people marked as Visitors by not being breakable when they try to delete it.
I think these systems would work well together since they do not limit what people can create much at all, so new Visitors to a server won't feel limited in what they can build, while at the same time they mainly only limit what people new to a server can destroy so griefers will not be able to simply destroy a server if they log on when no Admins/Members are on.
A command like /backup that any op can use, have the command duplicate the server_level.dat (which i currently do in my own server) so that if grievers do destroy peoples stuff, there is a recent backup. this may seem pointless but having op's that aren't hosting the server able to backup every once in a while will keep the server from being destroyed.
Also, commands like /teleport need to be shortened.
the ability of teleporting a player to you could also come in handy (not just for grievers)
An idea I had while some douchbag was destroying my castle was to allow groups to be formed, and have only them be able to destroy each others blocks, so until the last one logs out their stuff is safe. To combat griefers building prisons around people a limited phasing ability could be added.
yeah youre right
perhaps the OP would have the option to delete the blocks when they were kicked or left. because if not, then griefers would enter, build a bunch of blocks, and leave (before kicked), and then noone could delete them.
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
My suggestion is to see IP logging and allowing 1 account per IP per day, WITH exceptions being emailed upwards if need be. I know it can be problematic with large dorms using the same IP and so on - but really - it is NEEDED. I also know there is IP banning but why not just cut it off at the roots? and as a regular OP I have no access to IP's and such (or do I?)
My second suggestion is a karma system. If a player has been banned from x servers he should be IP banned altogether.... I'd hate to see the server I'm on go private because of dicks when we wanna show off our art to others! Also an option to backup the server after x amount of minutes and give ALL OPs the power to revert it back to that state would be helpful to prevent griefers...
Basically, everyone's blocks are "theirs" and unable to be modified by anyone but yourself. If you're working on a collab, you can add someone to your "buddy" system and then they're able to modify your blocks as well.
@Grif: that would lead to griefers building undeletable objects or boxing players in in undeletable boxes.
My Darwin fish evolved and ate your jesus fish.
Support The Pirate Bay!
No, they don't. Introducing stupid game mechanics to "stop" griefers simply makes the game crappier. The only thing that can stop a griefer, is a good admin (and perhaps a server setting that can be toggled that requires players to be validated before they can build / destroy).
Krynvelhat: What's to stop a griefer from acting all innocent and trustworthy, then going on a sneaky deleting spree?
A simple votekick procedure should work. As long as a predetermined percentage or number (%s don't make sense of there are 32 people on the server, I'd say 5 or 6 are enough) of the players chose to kick some guy, he'd get kicked. The number or % could be higher for a voteban.
It'd also be much better if you didn't have to type it in the console, which might be a bother for a few of the players. A simple point and click interface would be handy.
^
Obvious greifer. I suggest preemptively banning this guy.
"Survival of the fittest" is a phrase used to paraphrase natural selection.
Of course, designing a good UI for this would be a very hard and implementing it wouldn't be easy either.
Still griefers can group up and ban everyone, so everyone gets to the public IP list.
This is silly. I have been in games where people have claimed that someone is griefing, and with the current system, there is NO WAY to tell if they're telling the truth.
On the Huge maps that are being used in Multiplayer, something needs to be implemented to at least identify who it is that's griefing.
Maybe next to everyone's name in the Tab list, you can have a number displaying how many blocks they've deleted in the last 5 minutes (the only problem being that, anyone making a tunnel can cause a griefer to go "Ohh, this person is griefing, ban them!" Maybe only count blocks that were not map generated). With something this simple, as well as a votekick (probably with a SHORT ban, in order to stop it from being abused), it would be easier, but still not easy, to slow the griefing down.
:cool.gif: /teleport needs to be shortened to /t or /goto
c) /stop should be implemented to freeze a persons actions
d) Vote Kick is the best possible system to use (refer to point [a] about abuse by griefers
e) Get real, griefers will ALWAYS happen on public servers - Can't deal with it? Go private.
f) OWNERSHIP is a system not worth implementing due to memory constraints, abuse and general annoyance
g) Don't complain that an OP isn't dealing with griefers, if you don't think their doing a good job, make your own server
I think that condenses my rant into digestibles.
I have seen it happen where several come in at once. Don't underestimate the organizational power of places like 4chan.
"b) /teleport needs to be shortened to /t or /goto "
Absolutely
"c) /stop should be implemented to freeze a persons actions"
I think this, or a similar idea /noalter idea seems to be getting the most traction here.
"e) Get real, griefers will ALWAYS happen on public servers - Can't deal with it? Go private."
Perhaps, but right now it is too easy. It is a losing battle right now, and ALL of the public servers are suffering horribly. There are only a handful right now that are not a complete wasteland, and it's really only a matter of time before some stupid griefer finds the right window and destroys those too.
"f) OWNERSHIP is a system not worth implementing due to memory constraints, abuse and general annoyance"
Almost certainly true. If Notch is using a 3D array for the world, and I would assume he was, block ownership would kill performance.
"g) Don't complain that an OP isn't dealing with griefers, if you don't think their doing a good job, make your own server"
Ops can't be everywhere and on all the time. They are not omnipotent and omniscient. Even the best admined servers will get hit hard and repeatedly. They need the program to make their job easier and the griefers job harder, because right now the program gives the griefers the advantage.
That being said, I do think steps should be taken to combat griefing.
I like the idea of a tier system of Host-->Admins-->Members-->Visitors.
Using this system, Admins can promote Visitors to Members and the Host can do this in addition to promoting Members to Admins.
There should be a kick system in place. Perhaps Members can start a vote to kick other Members and Visitors while Visitors can only start a vote to kick other Visitors; Admins can not be kicked with a vote. I agree that there should be some sort of minimum requirement *in addition* to needing a majority vote, perhaps a minimum of 3 votes in favor of kicking. Admins can instantly kick any Member or Visitor and only the Host can kick Admins.
I also think there should be a permanent block system of sorts in place. In this system, people can delete blocks belonging to those of their tier or lower. Since griefers would very likely never go higher than Visitor status, they would only be able to at worst delete some of the ground and blocks belonging to other Visitors. In addition, if a person is on another person's friend list, that person can delete blocks made by the other person regardless of tier rank. Furthermore, I think two options should be given to the Host either at any given time or at server creation/reset: Time Limit and Tier. If Tier is turned on, than block deletion follows the tier system described in this paragraph, but if it is turned off than the server acts the way it is now where anyone can delete any block. The second option, Time Limit, can only be turned on if Tier is turned on and what it does is if a person has not been on the server for a set amount of time than regardless of tier rank that person's blocks become destroyable by everyone. Time Limit could be useful for situations like if an Admin quits the game or does not go online for a week or more and the Members of the server want to use space taken up by that Admin's buildings for something else.
Also, I'm not sure if it would make a difference, but if a block ownership system would cause a ton of lag, than what if once a person is promoted once they log off the server and back on they load up with a new set of blocks that look exactly the same but which react differently (destructible/indestructible) based upon tier rank. For example, if a person is a Visitor than they have a Visitor Sand Block that can be destroyed by anyone, but if they are promoted than if they log off the server when they log back in they'll get a small patch that changes their Visitor Sand Block (and every other Visitor Block) to a Member Sand Block which reacts to people marked as Visitors by not being breakable when they try to delete it.
I think these systems would work well together since they do not limit what people can create much at all, so new Visitors to a server won't feel limited in what they can build, while at the same time they mainly only limit what people new to a server can destroy so griefers will not be able to simply destroy a server if they log on when no Admins/Members are on.
You just basically reworded ownership then contradicted yourself saying ownership systems are a bad idea. :\
Also, commands like /teleport need to be shortened.
the ability of teleporting a player to you could also come in handy (not just for grievers)