I loved fishing in minecraft. It offered an alternative to digging and I get that is what the game is about but I enjoyed having more than one method for getting good loot. Changing how fishing is completely ruined the game for me.
I loved fishing in minecraft. It offered an alternative to digging and I get that is what the game is about but I enjoyed having more than one method for getting good loot. Changing how fishing is completely ruined the game for me.
I don't know what you're talking about...
Fishing is still feasible method of getting food and other supplies with all the player needing being a water pond, wood, string and time.
What, when happened?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
If I had to guess, it was the changes made in 1.16 to nerf AFK fishing farms, which IMO have no place in the game - if I ever change fishing (from what it is in 1.6.4, which only gives you the "original" fish) I'll certainly do so with nerfing AFK farms in mind (which is already largely the case since my version of Mending makes you have to repair items with the anvil, and all I would need to do to completely nerf AFK farms is to have Luck of the Sea be a requirement to catch any "treasure" at all):
However, this should not impact "legit" fishing", and if I changed fishing I might even increase the chances of treasure to make it more attractive - otherwise, if you want unlimited resources for no real effort play in Creative mode (it even says "unlimited resources" on the world creation screen; while this can technically be true for Survival as well the difference is how easy it is to collect them - one requires little to no effort while the other requires at least some continuing effort; likewise, things like iron farms fall into this category unless the player has to kill the mobs themselves, as I made it; even then it can still be much easier to just kill iron golems than to go mining, whcih will be made much worse in 1.17-1.18, the exact opposite of a "cave update").
Fishing itself, however, is an excellent way to get resources, loot and experience, and while away those annoying rainy or stormy days while you're at it. It's got a classic ramp-up, where you catch fishing rods and can combine them on the anvil (using the experience you got fishing). Once you've got your "god rod" (Mending, Unbreaking III, Lure III, Luck of the Sea III), you're golden.
go mining, which will be made much worse in 1.17-1.18
Eh? My understanding is that they're segregating the ores a bit more, and kicking diamond further down, but for iron especially, the new Fortune-able raw iron is a straight win. That said, I did just build my first iron farm, and I'm quite liking the results.... but I also have a dozen or so stacks of ore blocks waiting for when I upgrade the world. ;-)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
Eh? My understanding is that they're segregating the ores a bit more, and kicking diamond further down, but for iron especially, the new Fortune-able raw iron is a straight win. That said, I did just build my first iron farm, and I'm quite liking the results.... but I also have a dozen or so stacks of ore blocks waiting for when I upgrade the world. ;-)
I'm referring to this; at least some ores will not generate if they are exposed, favoring branch-mining over caving even more than it already is (I only find about 4 diamond ore per hour of caving while the Wiki claims you can find upwards of a stack, assuming 1.7% of blocks mined are diamond ore and you mine one block per second, which is feasible):
Coal ore in this second batch is also less likely to be exposed to air; 50% of ore blobs[verify] that would generate exposed do not generate.
It seems like Mojang is afraid that larger caves will make it too easy to obtain resources but my own experience says otherwise; I average more ores per hour in my first world than I did in TMCWv4, despite the latter having far larger caves and a much greater underground volume (likely far more than 1.17/1.18 will have), with about 33% more ores exposed per chunk (ores exposed per unit of volume is lower though, and surface area is what really matters). In any case, an update called "caves and cliffs" should be emphasizing caving as a way to mine for resources - they should even add ores which only generate when exposed to air, something I've actually done myself in the next update to TMCW to bring the relative amounts of ores found while caving in line with vanilla without affecting branch-mining (the relative increase in underground air volume is significantly higher in the middle of the ground than near lava level, which is also lower):
// Generates additional ore which only generates if it is exposed to air. Last two numbers = x*z grid within
// which one vein generates, except for amethyst, which has 1/8 the chance, hence the smaller than expected
// grid size. Redstone also places one vein over half the normal range (1/4 the density).
this.generateExposedOre(chunkCache, chunkX, chunkZ, BlockStates.oreGold, 8, 1, 30, 27, 1, 5); // 1/10
this.generateExposedOre(chunkCache, chunkX, chunkZ, BlockStates.oreRedstone, 7, 4, 12, 8, 1, 1); // 1/4
this.generateExposedOre(chunkCache, chunkX, chunkZ, BlockStates.oreDiamond, 7, -4, 12, 8, 2, 2); // 1/4
this.generateExposedOre(chunkCache, chunkX, chunkZ, BlockStates.oreLapis, 6, 12, 16, 32, 4, 2); // 1/8
this.generateExposedOre(chunkCache, chunkX, chunkZ, BlockStates.oreAmethyst, 7, -4, 12, 8, 2, 2); // 1/4
This is a count of exposed ores within the area I covered (for each block placed in a vein I check if it is exposed and if so all blocks in the vein are counted); the relative amounts are similar to vanilla 1.6.4 (coal and iron were not changed since they generate everywhere below sea level so changes to the distribution of caves with depth has no effect; I adjusted the relative amounts of other ores to the total). Even with a ~25% increase there is still over a thousand times more coal than amethyst (the top armor/tool tier in TMCW, not to be confused with the material being added in 1.17; it is actually pretty similar in status to netherite), with an average of one exposed ore per 40 chunks (for comparison, if I mine an average of 3000 ore per play session only about 1.9 will be amethyst; the ratio I found while caving in TMCWv4 was 1.53 per 3000):
Tedium is part of balance. With fishing, tou spend the time to get the stuff, that's the deal. If you don't like that deal, you can go farm animals, go exploring, and/or trade with with villagers to get similar resources. That's your choice, and there's no disputing taste. Fishing is the option for people who are willing to spend time to get stuff with little risk.
And you do need a fair bit of time and experience to get from the basic rod to the God Rod that's really showers you with stuff -- again, it's usual with Minecraft that putting a fair bit of effort into something gets you an order-of-magnitude or better improvement in your yield.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
I'm referring to this; at least some ores will not generate if they are
exposed, favoring branch-mining over caving even more than it already is
(I only find about 4 diamond ore per hour of caving while the Wiki
claims you can find upwards of a stack, assuming 1.7% of blocks mined are diamond ore and you mine one block per second, which is feasible):
It looks to me like most of the ores have an exposure-blind distribution, and an additional reduced-exposure distribution, the latter usually in the depths. And yes, the increased air surface and volume underground would make a huge difference in balance if they didn't do reduced air exposure.
I'm betting the upshot will that be players can find about as much ore by caving as before (but not always in the same places). But then if they dig around some, they can find a good deal more, even without branch mining as such.
The point I find interesting about the new depths: It looks to me like those depths are big enough that rather than just "light everything up", it'll be worth building actual bases in them perhaps even with farms, and setting up perimeters. The digging involved in reshaping an area for a base will surely turn up some ore.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
It looks to me like most of the ores have an exposure-blind distribution, and an additional reduced-exposure distribution, the latter usually in the depths. And yes, the increased air surface and volume underground would make a huge difference in balance if they didn't do reduced air exposure.
As mentioned before though, I actually find more ores per hour in my first world (vanilla 1.6.4) than in my modded worlds, despite the latter having far more caves, as well as far larger caves - up to millions of blocks:
There are also even larger complexes that I call "giant cave regions" which are around 350 blocks across and have a volume of around 1.7 million blocks (in an upcoming version, they are around 1.3 million in the current release):
All of this was mined from a single giant cave region over a period of about 18 hours, representing an average of 865 ore mined per hour, while I once recorded about 900 per hour in my first world; as another metric, 55 diamonds in 18 hours is an average of 3 per hour, while the long-term average in my first world is about 4 (either of these is far below what branch-mining can yield, which also has advantages like no mobs and much less hunger exhaustion/armor damage):
Of course, a lot of that time was spent on lighting up literally everything, even the ceilings; I placed a total of around 5,500 torches, but at the same time I also found a lot of ores in the ceiling, with easily more than half of all ores not visible without lighting, and the mobs spawning in such large open spaces makes it quite impractical to explore them without proper lighting (I've killed up to 600 mobs in a single large cave while focusing on lighting it up, not mining many ores until then):
A big cave has a lot of air so it removes a lot of ores and exposes less surface area.
At the same time, more surface area does mean more ores exposed, which is all that matters in the end, and only about 10% of the underground is air (vanilla 1.6.4 is about 5.27% and vanilla 1.7-1.16 is about 4.4%) - along with about 33% more ores exposed per chunk than vanilla, so I actually do find more ores for the same area explored, but it takes longer to explore the same area (in my first world I've averaged about 37 chunks per hour while in TMCWv4 I averaged about 27 chunks per hour, which agrees pretty closely with the difference in ores exposed per chunk, which in turn is indicative of the area I have to cover per chunk).
At the same time, more surface area does mean more ores exposed, which is all that matters in the end, and only about 10% of the underground is air (vanilla 1.6.4 is about 5.27% and vanilla 1.7-1.16 is about 4.4%) - along with about 33% more ores exposed per chunk than vanilla, so I actually do find more ores for the same area explored, but it takes longer to explore the same area (in my first world I've averaged about 37 chunks per hour while in TMCWv4 I averaged about 27 chunks per hour, which agrees pretty closely with the difference in ores exposed per chunk, which in turn is indicative of the area I have to cover per chunk).
I guess there are trade offs either way. You could also talk about the mazeiness and overlaps of caves, overhead surface stuff, and the scary sounds that play all the time in really big caves because you just cannot light up the middle enough.
I loved fishing in minecraft. It offered an alternative to digging and I get that is what the game is about but I enjoyed having more than one method for getting good loot. Changing how fishing is completely ruined the game for me.
I don't know what you're talking about...
Fishing is still feasible method of getting food and other supplies with all the player needing being a water pond, wood, string and time.
What, when happened?
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
If I had to guess, it was the changes made in 1.16 to nerf AFK fishing farms, which IMO have no place in the game - if I ever change fishing (from what it is in 1.6.4, which only gives you the "original" fish) I'll certainly do so with nerfing AFK farms in mind (which is already largely the case since my version of Mending makes you have to repair items with the anvil, and all I would need to do to completely nerf AFK farms is to have Luck of the Sea be a requirement to catch any "treasure" at all):
MC-183325 Fishing in small area yields no treasure loot
However, this should not impact "legit" fishing", and if I changed fishing I might even increase the chances of treasure to make it more attractive - otherwise, if you want unlimited resources for no real effort play in Creative mode (it even says "unlimited resources" on the world creation screen; while this can technically be true for Survival as well the difference is how easy it is to collect them - one requires little to no effort while the other requires at least some continuing effort; likewise, things like iron farms fall into this category unless the player has to kill the mobs themselves, as I made it; even then it can still be much easier to just kill iron golems than to go mining, whcih will be made much worse in 1.17-1.18, the exact opposite of a "cave update").
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Agreed, AFK fishing farms are a dead loss.
Fishing itself, however, is an excellent way to get resources, loot and experience, and while away those annoying rainy or stormy days while you're at it. It's got a classic ramp-up, where you catch fishing rods and can combine them on the anvil (using the experience you got fishing). Once you've got your "god rod" (Mending, Unbreaking III, Lure III, Luck of the Sea III), you're golden.
Eh? My understanding is that they're segregating the ores a bit more, and kicking diamond further down, but for iron especially, the new Fortune-able raw iron is a straight win. That said, I did just build my first iron farm, and I'm quite liking the results.... but I also have a dozen or so stacks of ore blocks waiting for when I upgrade the world. ;-)
I'm referring to this; at least some ores will not generate if they are exposed, favoring branch-mining over caving even more than it already is (I only find about 4 diamond ore per hour of caving while the Wiki claims you can find upwards of a stack, assuming 1.7% of blocks mined are diamond ore and you mine one block per second, which is feasible):
Here is a link to an image of ore generation, a lot of which is marked as reduced or even no air exposure:
https://images.ctfassets.net/8y6ykjruobr4/7kyVKZjkFUcQG46EalT9eS/cd2fc4a3c2970264b2fed82907a6da76/snapshot-21w10a-ore-distribution-full.jpg
It seems like Mojang is afraid that larger caves will make it too easy to obtain resources but my own experience says otherwise; I average more ores per hour in my first world than I did in TMCWv4, despite the latter having far larger caves and a much greater underground volume (likely far more than 1.17/1.18 will have), with about 33% more ores exposed per chunk (ores exposed per unit of volume is lower though, and surface area is what really matters). In any case, an update called "caves and cliffs" should be emphasizing caving as a way to mine for resources - they should even add ores which only generate when exposed to air, something I've actually done myself in the next update to TMCW to bring the relative amounts of ores found while caving in line with vanilla without affecting branch-mining (the relative increase in underground air volume is significantly higher in the middle of the ground than near lava level, which is also lower):
This is a count of exposed ores within the area I covered (for each block placed in a vein I check if it is exposed and if so all blocks in the vein are counted); the relative amounts are similar to vanilla 1.6.4 (coal and iron were not changed since they generate everywhere below sea level so changes to the distribution of caves with depth has no effect; I adjusted the relative amounts of other ores to the total). Even with a ~25% increase there is still over a thousand times more coal than amethyst (the top armor/tool tier in TMCW, not to be confused with the material being added in 1.17; it is actually pretty similar in status to netherite), with an average of one exposed ore per 40 chunks (for comparison, if I mine an average of 3000 ore per play session only about 1.9 will be amethyst; the ratio I found while caving in TMCWv4 was 1.53 per 3000):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
It's not the afk fishing farms, that are "overpowered". It's the Fishing Rod itself.
You can get awesome loot for investing 3 sticks and 2 strings, weather you make use of a farm, a modification or not.
The problem with fishing is simple, it's boring. That's why there are people who use those methods.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Tedium is part of balance. With fishing, tou spend the time to get the stuff, that's the deal. If you don't like that deal, you can go farm animals, go exploring, and/or trade with with villagers to get similar resources. That's your choice, and there's no disputing taste. Fishing is the option for people who are willing to spend time to get stuff with little risk.
And you do need a fair bit of time and experience to get from the basic rod to the God Rod that's really showers you with stuff -- again, it's usual with Minecraft that putting a fair bit of effort into something gets you an order-of-magnitude or better improvement in your yield.
It looks to me like most of the ores have an exposure-blind distribution, and an additional reduced-exposure distribution, the latter usually in the depths. And yes, the increased air surface and volume underground would make a huge difference in balance if they didn't do reduced air exposure.
I'm betting the upshot will that be players can find about as much ore by caving as before (but not always in the same places). But then if they dig around some, they can find a good deal more, even without branch mining as such.
The point I find interesting about the new depths: It looks to me like those depths are big enough that rather than just "light everything up", it'll be worth building actual bases in them perhaps even with farms, and setting up perimeters. The digging involved in reshaping an area for a base will surely turn up some ore.
As mentioned before though, I actually find more ores per hour in my first world (vanilla 1.6.4) than in my modded worlds, despite the latter having far more caves, as well as far larger caves - up to millions of blocks:
There are also even larger complexes that I call "giant cave regions" which are around 350 blocks across and have a volume of around 1.7 million blocks (in an upcoming version, they are around 1.3 million in the current release):
All of this was mined from a single giant cave region over a period of about 18 hours, representing an average of 865 ore mined per hour, while I once recorded about 900 per hour in my first world; as another metric, 55 diamonds in 18 hours is an average of 3 per hour, while the long-term average in my first world is about 4 (either of these is far below what branch-mining can yield, which also has advantages like no mobs and much less hunger exhaustion/armor damage):
Of course, a lot of that time was spent on lighting up literally everything, even the ceilings; I placed a total of around 5,500 torches, but at the same time I also found a lot of ores in the ceiling, with easily more than half of all ores not visible without lighting, and the mobs spawning in such large open spaces makes it quite impractical to explore them without proper lighting (I've killed up to 600 mobs in a single large cave while focusing on lighting it up, not mining many ores until then):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
A big cave has a lot of air so it removes a lot of ores and exposes less surface area.
At the same time, more surface area does mean more ores exposed, which is all that matters in the end, and only about 10% of the underground is air (vanilla 1.6.4 is about 5.27% and vanilla 1.7-1.16 is about 4.4%) - along with about 33% more ores exposed per chunk than vanilla, so I actually do find more ores for the same area explored, but it takes longer to explore the same area (in my first world I've averaged about 37 chunks per hour while in TMCWv4 I averaged about 27 chunks per hour, which agrees pretty closely with the difference in ores exposed per chunk, which in turn is indicative of the area I have to cover per chunk).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I guess there are trade offs either way. You could also talk about the mazeiness and overlaps of caves, overhead surface stuff, and the scary sounds that play all the time in really big caves because you just cannot light up the middle enough.