No longer is Minecraft just a place to explore, he's placed actual endgoals now.
The Nether, and it's complement the Aether, were based upon the rules of the old Nether and overworld.
All you had to do was survive, and you had 3 ways to do so.
Run, Build, Fight.
Aether, Overworld, Nether respectively.
Now the Nether is simply a stage before you get to The End (which is what the Skylands turned into NOT the Aether).
Working our CORE CONCEPT back so that it fits better with his end goal is not going to happen, and the only real thing we could use from what Notch has officially added, is the third realm (thus making the Aether).
Either we work on our version, create the Aether (don't expect that any time soon), and completely scrap The End, or our stuff sticks out like a sore thumb and wouldn't be worth inclusion.
No longer is Minecraft just a place to explore, he's placed actual endgoals now.
Oh, I see what you mean. I thought it was a problem with the mobs, structures, or potion ingredients. I like this suggestion's sense of progression better.
Maybe the portal to the End could require an ingredient from the Aether as well? Sort of like an epic item gathering quest involving each realm? The End feels more like a boss arena to me than an actual realm you would build in (as the Enderdragon wouldn't fit in the stronghold itself.)
Oh, I see what you mean. I thought it was a problem with the mobs, structures, or potion ingredients. I like this suggestion's sense of progression better.
Maybe the portal to the End could require an ingredient from the Aether as well? Sort of like an epic item gathering quest involving each realm? The End feels more like a boss arena to me than an actual realm you would build in (as the Enderdragon wouldn't fit in the stronghold itself.)
That would mean We'd have to include King's Aether mod code as a core.
And while nothing is particularly wrong with it (code wise. elsewise it's diverged from the intended purpose), I think it'd be easier on US to just flat out replace The End with the Aether.
Notch's code is already in there, and the world generation is for Skylands. It's like it's asking to be turned into the Aether (seeing as he didn't do it himself)
you ever think you should just get the guys who did the aether to help with develop this new nether idea? it has way t much potential to be laid out at the side
That would mean We'd have to include King's Aether mod code as a core.
I was thinking Aether suggestion Aether, not necessarily the current state of the mod. You could remake your own at some point, or maybe create some kind of patch if King was okay with it.
I know why you are saying it, and although they did well, the ideas thread was by Sab and Grey, and the group that made the Aether strayed somewhat from the original ideas, and Sab has said they may get it redone in the past.
There is a lot of potential, but I'm not sure I'd go to that group, but then i haven't even played the mod, just watched others play it.
You're giving me way too much credit on the Aether.
The most I ever did was argue with Grey as to the implementation of Gale/Flowstone.
Since I obviously lack the artistic insight to do so my self, would you care to explain how the addition of two mobs and Nether Forts would make your suggested features not fit with the Nether? Hell, the majority of the Nether is still the same: emtpy. The addition of more mobs alone would make the search for Forts more challenging, since Ghasts can be dealt with by Cobblestone. Which by the time you reach the Nether, you'll have tonnes of the stuff.
Also, since Blazes are apperently just 'flying skeletons' how are Brands not faster spiders?
Spiders can't intentionally light themselves on fire to increase the damage they deal to you (and subsequently survive said ignition). Nor do they immediately run away from you after they've hit you once.
I was thinking Aether suggestion Aether, not necessarily the current state of the mod. You could remake your own at some point, or maybe create some kind of patch if King was okay with it.
As I said, if we were going to do anything it'd probably replace The End entirely with the Aether.
Notch dealt with the hard stuff of implementing a new realm, so we'd just have to rewrite the realm.
Then again I'm simply hoping he didn't do what he did with the Nether, which was make it it's own biome.
On another note.
Work on the mod has stalled. Though I should actually say it's hardly started.
yofreke was our primary modder and with CONSTANT updates from Notch's crew it's made it so updating his own (older) mods is a b*tch and a half.
I do like some of the enemy mobs and ideas for block additions/changes, but the plan is a little on the bloated side. It's a major proposal and has a heck of a lot of pork. It sounds to me like you have a few things you wish you could do in Minecraft presently and your idea is to rely on the Nether support it. Add in any passerby's crazy idea they also think was cool and viola, you have any bill waiting to be pushed through congress. I mean, we all wish Obsidian mined faster, but should all the other blocks be instant? Blast-resistant glass? I think the idea to have soulsand hold gravity-affected blocks and be climbable is unique, but you lose me on the paragraph where you can then remove it and gravity somehow fails to return.
There are a lot of unnecessary proposals for changes and additions, some a little more than novelty (look what my axe/sword/pickax/shovel can do!). That's the reason I hate the Aether. They added magical effects to everything and called it a day. If you stripped the fat you'd be left with dungeons and bosses, two decent ideas. But, that's just my opinion.
In a stricter sense, instead of pretending like you are looking for a semblance of balance, wouldn't it be easier to just make invincible tools that fire warheads? At the end of the day, that's the concept you seem to be skirting. You want to be able to bend the boundaries of the game but hide it behind 'challenging acquisition'. But Minecraft didn't grow to be popular because it relied on the tried and true concept of 'tiered acquisition' where at the top everything has super powers. Nope, you can put said super powers on your wooden shovel if you'd like. And gold tools exist but in a severe use of common sense, aren't better than iron (at least in durability).
It's that kind of foreign yet logical thinking that has made Minecraft what it is. I honestly doubt you'll go back to the drawing board over any of my ramblings but I do hope you are willing to put a little thought into what you are proposing and ask yourself, "Who is this for?" Most of the ideas seem solely designed to make your life better thereby failing to improve the experience in any meaningful way.
TL;DR - Are your proposing we change the entire Nether so you can mine obsidian faster and build sand traps?
First: Sniggy, take a breath, man. You've gotten to the anger-fueled part of your forum existence. And it is impairing your eyesight a bit, I think, because you overlooked something.
Secondly: Hyomoto, you do have a point, but let me give you an actual Minecraft-logic argument in favor of Bloodstone tools, to which you refer about Obsidian. Firstly, Obsidian is only really useful for getting to the Nether. Yes, it does protect blocks from explosive damage, but so so Bricks. And since you can make infinite Stoen Bricks, that frankly look better, the only reason to mine obsidian more is the fact that it does make other items eventually. And adding in everything here would actually make a faster obsidian mining not only useful, but a necessity.
Also, because of how far into the game it takes to actually get to the Bloodstone tools, the player has probably already made almost all of the objects in the New Nether, and is really getting the tool for the same reason you get a Diamond pickaxe after the first one. And that in and of itself is very much Minecraft progression. Getting wood tools makes wood easier to collect. Stone is better for stone, iron for iron, diamond for everything Overworld. The only one that sidesteps this progression is gold, which is out of place completely.
The other tools are given Effects to make Minecraft less of a linear game, which is really what Minecraft is all about. Can't mine obsidian but need a portal? Use lava and water! What a move sideways that was. Are you stuck in a desert but need a shelter? Make sandstone! Really, Minecraft has always been about making things accessible from all points, and looking for different, though not necessarily better, methods. Squares, not lines. So, really, the tool sets in this suggestion fit better with the original Minecraft ideas than even some Minecraft-canon blocks made past, I'd say Beta 1.3.
I would talk about tier'd acquisition, but, really, all of the items in the Nether, save Blood Gem items, are available from the outset in the Nether. Unlike iron which requires you to get stone, which in turn requires wood, the New Nether only needs iron level tools to get any and all of them. So really, where is the tier'ing here?
TL;DR: Sniggy, chill, read the section on Blood Gem tools. Hyomoto: READ THE ENTIRE POST. I have carefully (sorta) compiled all I know about your arguments. As much as I have read about this suggestion, that is actually not much. I will not foreshorten my rant for the sake of a skimmer.
Lastly: Some of this may make less sense than I anticipated. I will gladly respond to any challenges, retorts, rebuttals, etc. I tend to type fast and put in a lot of information, but leave out a selection because I assume people have read the appropriate materials, or came to the same conclusions. Obviously, this is almost never true, so I need to add information I did not include originally.
EDIT: Holy Crap. It's three in the morning where I am, and I just now, after about fifteen hours, realized this was my 42 post. Now there are two jokes in my sidebar. If only Cosmological Constants could be so simple in reality. . . (I think, I really do not understand what that is, aside from the obvious.)
Since I obviously lack the artistic insight to do so my self, would you care to explain how the addition of two mobs and Nether Forts would make your suggested features not fit with the Nether? Hell, the majority of the Nether is still the same: emtpy. The addition of more mobs alone would make the search for Forts more challenging, since Ghasts can be dealt with by Cobblestone. Which by the time you reach the Nether, you'll have tonnes of the stuff.
(Repeat, repeat, repeat the bulk of my post that was ignored)
Nether Forts are part of the things added I like.
It makes a mod much easier on our part since we were planning dungeons anyways.
The mobs are mostly just the "ehh... that's a pointless addition". Outside of making the skeleton clone fly they added no complexity to the new mobs.
Remember when the Nether was introduced.
It introduced Neutral/Aggressive mobs with the Z. Pigmen and the first flying mob that would spit BOMBS at you.
After that we get a Slime that can only hurt you by jumping on your head (see: in less ways than it's predecessor) and a skeleton that can fly. They aren't bad, but they aren't good.
And if you include all of this, cobblestone won't save you from Ghasts. Corruption would turn it into Rack, unless you built smart.
So looking at the additions given from the "Nether Update" we have:
Nether Forts (a given, based upon overworld forts, and overall good)
2 uninventive mobs (Meh)
DIRECTLY GIVING THE GAME AN END GOAL (no bueno)
With this update the Nether has NO purpose since it's only a step between you and The End (of which you only have to be in the Nether long enough to gather enough Flame Rods), and moving faster through the overworld.
His "expansion" to the Nether completely removed the POINT of the Nether.
He didn't make it a place you could survive indefinitely.
He didn't add any reason to be there besides "Oh faster overworld travel" (see: has nothing to do with the realm itself) or "Time to get to The End!" (see: has nothing to do with the Nether itself)
He didn't innovate on the new mobs he added.
Overall his update was a VERY poor one.
This thread was built upon the belief that there was no end goal so you should have fun surviving.
Notch changed that in his Nether update, so it's either no end goal (his goes), or no New Nether.
Build a bridge and get over it. No one is forcing you to goto the End and fight Ender Dragons.
2. Faster Overworld Travel:
Was one of the main advertised features of the Nether.
3. The 'POINT' of the Nether:
Beyond faster travel there is no POINT. You're projecting what you think the Nether's point should be onto the actual real exsisting Nether.
4. Where the Nether was going:
Where ever the damn Notch wanted it to go. See 3, regarding projection.
Note that the projection factor of 3 and 4, along with the refusal to accept the idea that Minecraft can have built in goals sort of makes you come off like sort of a pretenious thing.
Wrong on most parts.
No one is forcing you to do anything besides make your first house. DO you do things other than that? Yeah. Should you build suggestions around people NOT doing anything else? No.
Fast travel was a reason to go to the Nether, but it was not the POINT of the Nether. There is no POINT to the Nether currently.
And as you surmised Grey and I are projecting our idea as to the point of the Nether.
As you've stated before, "Fast travel is all the Nether has". Add to that "entrance to the End game" and "very few mobs".
Is there ANY reason to STAY in the Nether? NO.
THAT'S why the Nether has no Point.
Our suggestion gives the Nether a point, by making it able to be survived in AND reason to stay there.
Notch's version doesn't.
TL;DR
Have you spent more time in the Nether after Notch's update AFTER you got the Blaze Rods you needed for The End?
Would you spend more time in the Nether after an update as suggested in this thread?
once you go from "hey heres my cool idea" to "looking for modders", i think its time to asses the correct location for this thread to the modding forums.
This sounds Epic. I always hated how little there was in the Nether and The End. I think all dimensions should have a wide range of blocks, ores, mobs, tools, ect. One thing I don't like are trolls. They would be great as mobs in the normal world, but they don't seem to fit in in the Nether. I also like the freezer idea. I once came up with a similar idea that I called a cooler, but never really came up with anything to use as fuel...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
^^Thread is very outdated, but the mod is coming soon^^
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
12/6/2010
Posts:
215
Minecraft:
tigereye504
Member Details
just wondering, does a netherwurm drop a item from each segment as they get destroyed, or does it only drop a single item when it is killed from being reduced to one segment/colliding with self. The more I think about this, the more confused I get...
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
12/6/2010
Posts:
215
Minecraft:
tigereye504
Member Details
over 24 hrs, and no reponse. Ok, perhaps I should repraise my question. Does the Netherwurm drop items upon death of a segment or upon death of a whole wurm?
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
No longer is Minecraft just a place to explore, he's placed actual endgoals now.
The Nether, and it's complement the Aether, were based upon the rules of the old Nether and overworld.
All you had to do was survive, and you had 3 ways to do so.
Run, Build, Fight.
Aether, Overworld, Nether respectively.
Now the Nether is simply a stage before you get to The End (which is what the Skylands turned into NOT the Aether).
Working our CORE CONCEPT back so that it fits better with his end goal is not going to happen, and the only real thing we could use from what Notch has officially added, is the third realm (thus making the Aether).
Either we work on our version, create the Aether (don't expect that any time soon), and completely scrap The End, or our stuff sticks out like a sore thumb and wouldn't be worth inclusion.
Maybe the portal to the End could require an ingredient from the Aether as well? Sort of like an epic item gathering quest involving each realm? The End feels more like a boss arena to me than an actual realm you would build in (as the Enderdragon wouldn't fit in the stronghold itself.)
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
remember when this was a new thread XP
That would mean We'd have to include King's Aether mod code as a core.
And while nothing is particularly wrong with it (code wise. elsewise it's diverged from the intended purpose), I think it'd be easier on US to just flat out replace The End with the Aether.
Notch's code is already in there, and the world generation is for Skylands. It's like it's asking to be turned into the Aether (seeing as he didn't do it himself)
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
Can I join the team as an Ideasman? I would love to be a part of this!
I would use it, but I can't for some reason..
You're giving me way too much credit on the Aether.
The most I ever did was argue with Grey as to the implementation of Gale/Flowstone.
Spiders can't intentionally light themselves on fire to increase the damage they deal to you (and subsequently survive said ignition). Nor do they immediately run away from you after they've hit you once.
As I said, if we were going to do anything it'd probably replace The End entirely with the Aether.
Notch dealt with the hard stuff of implementing a new realm, so we'd just have to rewrite the realm.
Then again I'm simply hoping he didn't do what he did with the Nether, which was make it it's own biome.
On another note.
Work on the mod has stalled. Though I should actually say it's hardly started.
yofreke was our primary modder and with CONSTANT updates from Notch's crew it's made it so updating his own (older) mods is a b*tch and a half.
There are a lot of unnecessary proposals for changes and additions, some a little more than novelty (look what my axe/sword/pickax/shovel can do!). That's the reason I hate the Aether. They added magical effects to everything and called it a day. If you stripped the fat you'd be left with dungeons and bosses, two decent ideas. But, that's just my opinion.
In a stricter sense, instead of pretending like you are looking for a semblance of balance, wouldn't it be easier to just make invincible tools that fire warheads? At the end of the day, that's the concept you seem to be skirting. You want to be able to bend the boundaries of the game but hide it behind 'challenging acquisition'. But Minecraft didn't grow to be popular because it relied on the tried and true concept of 'tiered acquisition' where at the top everything has super powers. Nope, you can put said super powers on your wooden shovel if you'd like. And gold tools exist but in a severe use of common sense, aren't better than iron (at least in durability).
It's that kind of foreign yet logical thinking that has made Minecraft what it is. I honestly doubt you'll go back to the drawing board over any of my ramblings but I do hope you are willing to put a little thought into what you are proposing and ask yourself, "Who is this for?" Most of the ideas seem solely designed to make your life better thereby failing to improve the experience in any meaningful way.
TL;DR - Are your proposing we change the entire Nether so you can mine obsidian faster and build sand traps?
Secondly: Hyomoto, you do have a point, but let me give you an actual Minecraft-logic argument in favor of Bloodstone tools, to which you refer about Obsidian. Firstly, Obsidian is only really useful for getting to the Nether. Yes, it does protect blocks from explosive damage, but so so Bricks. And since you can make infinite Stoen Bricks, that frankly look better, the only reason to mine obsidian more is the fact that it does make other items eventually. And adding in everything here would actually make a faster obsidian mining not only useful, but a necessity.
Also, because of how far into the game it takes to actually get to the Bloodstone tools, the player has probably already made almost all of the objects in the New Nether, and is really getting the tool for the same reason you get a Diamond pickaxe after the first one. And that in and of itself is very much Minecraft progression. Getting wood tools makes wood easier to collect. Stone is better for stone, iron for iron, diamond for everything Overworld. The only one that sidesteps this progression is gold, which is out of place completely.
The other tools are given Effects to make Minecraft less of a linear game, which is really what Minecraft is all about. Can't mine obsidian but need a portal? Use lava and water! What a move sideways that was. Are you stuck in a desert but need a shelter? Make sandstone! Really, Minecraft has always been about making things accessible from all points, and looking for different, though not necessarily better, methods. Squares, not lines. So, really, the tool sets in this suggestion fit better with the original Minecraft ideas than even some Minecraft-canon blocks made past, I'd say Beta 1.3.
I would talk about tier'd acquisition, but, really, all of the items in the Nether, save Blood Gem items, are available from the outset in the Nether. Unlike iron which requires you to get stone, which in turn requires wood, the New Nether only needs iron level tools to get any and all of them. So really, where is the tier'ing here?
TL;DR: Sniggy, chill, read the section on Blood Gem tools. Hyomoto: READ THE ENTIRE POST. I have carefully (sorta) compiled all I know about your arguments. As much as I have read about this suggestion, that is actually not much. I will not foreshorten my rant for the sake of a skimmer.
Lastly: Some of this may make less sense than I anticipated. I will gladly respond to any challenges, retorts, rebuttals, etc. I tend to type fast and put in a lot of information, but leave out a selection because I assume people have read the appropriate materials, or came to the same conclusions. Obviously, this is almost never true, so I need to add information I did not include originally.
EDIT: Holy Crap. It's three in the morning where I am, and I just now, after about fifteen hours, realized this was my 42 post. Now there are two jokes in my sidebar. If only Cosmological Constants could be so simple in reality. . . (I think, I really do not understand what that is, aside from the obvious.)
I will add this though.
What I see:
What I get from that message:
Nether Forts are part of the things added I like.
It makes a mod much easier on our part since we were planning dungeons anyways.
The mobs are mostly just the "ehh... that's a pointless addition". Outside of making the skeleton clone fly they added no complexity to the new mobs.
Remember when the Nether was introduced.
It introduced Neutral/Aggressive mobs with the Z. Pigmen and the first flying mob that would spit BOMBS at you.
After that we get a Slime that can only hurt you by jumping on your head (see: in less ways than it's predecessor) and a skeleton that can fly. They aren't bad, but they aren't good.
And if you include all of this, cobblestone won't save you from Ghasts. Corruption would turn it into Rack, unless you built smart.
So looking at the additions given from the "Nether Update" we have:
Nether Forts (a given, based upon overworld forts, and overall good)
2 uninventive mobs (Meh)
DIRECTLY GIVING THE GAME AN END GOAL (no bueno)
With this update the Nether has NO purpose since it's only a step between you and The End (of which you only have to be in the Nether long enough to gather enough Flame Rods), and moving faster through the overworld.
His "expansion" to the Nether completely removed the POINT of the Nether.
He didn't make it a place you could survive indefinitely.
He didn't add any reason to be there besides "Oh faster overworld travel" (see: has nothing to do with the realm itself) or "Time to get to The End!" (see: has nothing to do with the Nether itself)
He didn't innovate on the new mobs he added.
Overall his update was a VERY poor one.
This thread was built upon the belief that there was no end goal so you should have fun surviving.
Notch changed that in his Nether update, so it's either no end goal (his goes), or no New Nether.
Wrong on most parts.
No one is forcing you to do anything besides make your first house. DO you do things other than that? Yeah. Should you build suggestions around people NOT doing anything else? No.
Fast travel was a reason to go to the Nether, but it was not the POINT of the Nether. There is no POINT to the Nether currently.
And as you surmised Grey and I are projecting our idea as to the point of the Nether.
As you've stated before, "Fast travel is all the Nether has". Add to that "entrance to the End game" and "very few mobs".
Is there ANY reason to STAY in the Nether?
NO.
THAT'S why the Nether has no Point.
Our suggestion gives the Nether a point, by making it able to be survived in AND reason to stay there.
Notch's version doesn't.
TL;DR
Have you spent more time in the Nether after Notch's update AFTER you got the Blaze Rods you needed for The End?
Would you spend more time in the Nether after an update as suggested in this thread?
^^Thread is very outdated, but the mod is coming soon^^