Many people have been asking for a cave update lately; caves haven't been updated in a very long time, and they started to outdated compared to new content being added to the surface, sea, and other dimensions.
I would like to discuss the problems i see in the cave system in general, and suggest solutions or changes that would make cave exploration more interesting.
Note : My main concern here is overhauling the generation system in order to make it more interesting, i believe its necessary to add more content to caves (new ores, resources, treasures, mobs, etc...) however, i will not go into details; because :
Each new resource / block / item can extend on other mechanics of the game, i don't want this thread to be a wishlist with lots of random ideas regarding every aspect of the game.
This thread will be relatively long, I dont want to further increase its length with irrelevant topics.
I don't want to change the focus from the main idea to the details.
But of course, at the same time i don't want to be vague in this thread, So i will give Examples of new content and where and how it should be introduced, but again, please focus on discussing and criticizing the main idea it self.
tl;dr at the bottom.
So what are the problems I think are present in the current cave generation?
Caves are redundant.
While the cave generation system presented us with multiple types of caves (tunnels, ravines..) and a few underground structures such as Dungeons and Mine shafts, in the end, all caves are the same! once you've seen a cave you've seen all caves; they all look the same, they all have the same content, there isn't a reason for you to explore new caves for more content.
Caves are abundant
I've never dag a stairway tunnel without finding a cave at some level beneath me, they are everywhere.
This removes the players need to explore the game which is what we're trying to change here.
I think a combination of changes to the cave generation system And the addition of new content can solve these problems and make mining and cave exploration more interesting.
Changes to cave generation system :
Variety in cave generation
More unique caverns
while caves aren't exactly the same, i don't feel they are different enough to make each one unique.
A cave system in minecraft consists of rooms of various sizes connected by tunnels, and eventually you get those large deep ravines, some of which are open to the surface and some are entirely hidden underground and only accessible through a series of connected cave systems or by tunneling.
I would like to see more different types of cave systems that make each cave look different and distinguishable.
Varying Cave content
Cosmetically changing the shapes isn't enough to make each cave different; in the end, caves are sought for their their content.
I think cave content (such as ores) should vary in "Type" and "Abundance".
Abundance : Not all caves are equal; some caves are just better. When the player finds a "Great cave!" it is actually something worth being excited about, ore veins can be bigger in these caves and spawn in larger amounts.
Type : Certain caves may have a focus on a certain type of ore, each cave will not be limited to a specific ore where you will exclusively find that specific ore, but ore percentages may vary between caves, some may be rich with iron, some with gold, or maybe Diamonds!
Varying Cave threats
Certain caves can be more dangerous than others, and may boast different types of dangers.
We already -sorta- have this thing, for example, not all caves contain lava, and stone in extreme hills have a chance to spawn silverfish when mined.
I would like to further extend on this, perhaps with new unique mobs, or new traps.
More underground structures
Finding structures on the surface is very interesting, villages, temples, outposts, mansions, etc.. and while this feature was brought to sea exploration with buried cities, monuments, and shipwrecks, i think its time to introduce this to the undergrounds now.
The only structures we have underground are Mine shafts, Dungeons and strongholds (they don't count).
(I will further elaborate with examples and ideas on how to achieve said suggestions below ⬎)
Scarcer caves
While having more variety in cave generation will encourage players to try and find new caves, if caves are everywhere underground, then players can dig everywhere and find a cave. Of course caves shouldn't be a rare find, but at the same time they shouldn't be everywhere; Caves should be common enough to be found regularly, but scarce enough to encourage the player to go find them.
How to find caves?
Since caves can't be found literally wherever you dig a tunnel, there should be new ways for the player to find caves.
Mainly The player will try to find "Surface caves", caves that having an opening on the surface, these caves can rarely be connected to "Deep caves" which are entirely covered cave systems that are not visible from the surface.
In order to find "Deep caves" The player needs to find clues for them; certain generation features on the surface or inside caves can hint that digging in this area will lead to a deep cave.
Maps found in treasures/loot or sold by villagers may lead to certain underground structures, which will usually be generated as parts of larger cave systems.
There can also be maps that directly lead to locations of hidden caves.
My Ideas
At this point im done discussing the main issue, and now i want to give examples and ideas of what new things we can possibly find, new cave systems, etc...
Again, as i mentioned in the beginning of this thread, i don't want to dive very deep in details to avoid making this thread a wishlist and including irrelevant information.
I would love to see new ores, new items, maybe new enchantments or new potions all unique to underground resources or found exclusively in underground structures and loot.
Cave generation
As i mentioned above, i don't find current cave generation various enough to create caves that stand out, so i suggest more cave structures.
High ceiling caves
only found in deep caves, rooms with very high ceiling and with wide pillars of stone connecting the floor with the ceiling, can be a hub for multiple tunnels that connect this cave systems rooms, or even lead to other cave systems.
Fungal caves
Caves filled with small and larger mushrooms on its floor and walls, can be a source for a rare mushroom that can be used to brew unique potions. who said ores are the only thing you seek to find underground??
Credit to this guy.
Flooded caves
Caves flooded with foot-level water, with occasional rooms filled with water with barely a few blocks on the top for the player to swim up and breath.
Yes they are annoying, but they are worth exploring! they are rich in diamonds (or maybe a new type of gem), also they can be an exclusive source for unique underground fish and aquatic flora, or maybe a new type of stone
Crystal caves
A very rare kind of cave covered on all sides with wonderful semi-transparent crystal blocks. these blocks are entirely decorational, and each crystal cave can contain a different set of colors, making each one by it self different.
Frozen caves
Caves open to the surface in very cold biomes may be covered in ice on all surfaces, the ice will continue on for some distance into the depths of the cave, but as you get further from the surface, the caves return to be normal.
These caves can have icy spikes on their ceiling that may drop on the player when the player moves near below them. be careful!
Sunken Terra
a cave very close to the surface with lots of holes poked in the ceiling, letting light in and allowing plants to grow.
Slime caves
These caves' floor is covered with a new liquid block "Liquid slime", this liquid is very thick, and has the least fluidity in the game. the player moves very slow in liquid slime, and its so thick, that the player can actually walk on its surface for a few blocks before starting to sink.
It has to be mined with a shovel and it drops slime balls.
Most of the cave is covered with foot level slime, but in some areas it can go as deep as 3 or 4 blocks.
Slimes can spawn in these caves, and they can normally move in liquid slime.
While we have our regular zombie and skeleton friends from the overworld also in the underworld, i would suggest cave-exclusive mobs that never leave their caves (since many people believe that mobs that spawn at night are actually cave mobs that crawl out at night).
There can be some mobs that are exclusive to caves in general, and mobs exclusive to specific types of caves.
Giant slime
a new size of slime exclusive to slime caves, this slime only spawns in large pool rooms, and acts as a mini-boss.
With each attack, this slime shrinks in size and has a chance to spawn a small/medium slime, then it splits into 3-4 large slime on death, and a good bunch of XP orbs.
Skeleton or Zombie cave variants?
I like the idea of unique versions of mobs, such as strays and husks. maybe we can have a unique version of these mobs that spawn exclusively underground.
Mushmen
neutral mobs that spawn in fungal caves. provoked with attacks on extreme proximity.
They can launch poisonous gas, poisoning all players around them.
Underground structures
Procedural dungeons
complex mazes of tunnels and rooms filled with traps and hostile mobs, these dungeons are generated similar to woodland mansions; prefabricated rooms, with randomized layout.
These dungeons contain various traps (usually triggered by tripwires) that can launch tipped arrows, splash potions, or a hail of arrows from both sides, floor that moves with pistons and drops the player into deep pits, lava that spills from the ceiling.. you name it.
and dare the player try to mine their way around it, some blocks are trapped; containing dangerous silver fish, or set off a ceiling avalanche when mined.
Other than the trap abundant pathways, the player can find encounter rooms;
Upon entering, these rooms are closed with unique doors that take a very long time to mine to prevent escaping.
These rooms contain a unique type of mob spawners that spawn mobs in a wave like system; a new wave is spawned only after the previous wave is cleared, until the player clears all waves.
Thes spawners can be mind to stop spawning, but they will spawn a large amount at once upon destroying.
A treasure chest is always present in these rooms as a reward for entering.
other types of rooms may include regular spawner rooms (similar to the ones from old dungeons), Chest rooms which simply contains loot, rigged chest rooms which mimic chest rooms but set off traps upon opening the chest.
I may make a full thread on these dungeons with further detail, but for now.. you get the idea.
Underground villages
Villagers who couldn't find their way out built their villages underground and they live there now.
This new type of village has a new villager profession : "Miners".
these villagers can sell mining tools and smelted ores.
Catacombs
hallways and rooms built with bone-based blocks. littered with skeletons and zombies, this procedural structure has the potential of finding precious loot.
Catacombs loot chests may contain weapons/tools/armor enchanted with incredibly powerful enchantments, but at the same time most of it is cursed (and i think this is a good time to add more unique enchantments and curses to the game).
among these bone cased rooms and hallways, the player may find the treasure room, a room filled with a new "treasure block".
this block looks like a pile of gold coins and jewelry and its mined with shovels.
when mined, it drops a splinter of gold nuggets, with a rare chance of gold ingots, golden items (which may be enchanted and cursed), emeralds, and more rarely diamonds and diamond tools.
Solitary villager house
Not a village, but a single house inhabited by a unique solitary villager, kinda similar to the wandering villager.
this villager sells unique and rare enchanted items and potions, but also sells a various set of regular supplies you might need in the underground.
Cave entrances
as I mentioned above, the player may find clues on the surface that indicate the existence of a cave below, without being directly open to it.
Irritated ground
An unusual pattern in surface terrain generation may indicate the existence of a cave below.
An incomplete tunnel
a small cave entrance with a door and clearly man-made features that quickly leads to a dead end after walking a bit in its tunnel isn't actually a dead end! continue this abandoned project to uncover the cave below.
Certain stone material?
new types of stone, always associated with caves, if you find it on the surface, there should be a cave below.
Cave mobs
Now this isn't a structure but ill include this as a clue for the existence of caves.
As i said, we may have some new underground-only mobs, how about these mobs may spawn on the surface at night only when there is a cave below.
____
Conclusion
The main idea of this thread is to address the issue of caves being repetitive and uninteresting. The ideas i mentioned above are just examples of what can be added to make caves more interesting.
The main points I'm trying to reach here are :
Caves shouldn't all be the same; they should look different, and contain different amounts / types of ore and other material.
Caves should be a bit more scarce to make exploring for caves more valid.
The underground in general should have more content; with new exclusive structures, loot, and mobs to give it more variety and reason to explore.
(why would you explore underground if the loot you'll find can be found above ground?).
Thanks for reading, please let me know what you think in the comments
I very highly disagree that caves need to be less common - after all, I have not updated to a newer version for nearly seven years and very likely never will because of a certain update in late 2013 which greatly reduced the size and variation in cave system density as well as made mineshafts and dungeons much rarer (ravines were untouched):
This is an interconnected caves map for the seed "-123775873255737467" in 1.6.4 (the seed for my first world), over a 3072x3072 block area centered around the origin; all the green areas are directly interconnected to a single point near the middle; the area to the lower-right interconnects off the edge of the map (only the area shown on the map is traced for interconnectivity. This also does not consider things like veins of ore or falling gravel linking otherwise separate caves, or water/lava dripping from the ceiling, revealing the presence of a cave directly above):
For comparison, this is the same seed in 1.7 and later; it still did cover an area about 1000 blocks long but that isn't much by my standards:
I tried recentering the map a few times without much result, hence I don't show the full map:
These are renderings of what I explored over several days in my first world (vanilla 1.6.4) - the interconnectivity of the underground is absolutely perfect for somebody with my playstyle, I simply go from one cave system to the next through interconnected caves, which is something that is impossible to do in 1.7+, as I've confirmed with my own program that traces all caves directly interconnected to a starting point, and explore them at a rate that most people find impossible (just the last time I played I explored a large cave system, 3 ravines, and most of 2 mineshafts, with more than 4,000 ores, rails, cobwebs, and moss stone mined - all in one sitting):
This is over 10 play sessions, the area I covered is around 700 blocks across and represents more than 30,000 ores mined and 10,000 torches used:
Another sequence taken over 4 play sessions:
Luckily, my own modding abilities means I can forget about ever updating since I can update the game myself, including making my own cave update with some of the most insane caves you've ever seen:
A rendering of the underground, showing many of the unique types of caves:
This is a chart of all the different types of caves, which does not include many new ones that I've added since:
This is a comparison of underground air volume, which is substantially higher in TMCW than even vanilla 1.6.4, which is in turn higher than 1.7 and later (the changes to caves in 1.7 had a bigger impact on their distribution), and includes 7 additional layers between lava level and sea level (this is a 13% increase in ground volume used by caves):
This is another comparison of cave density, which shows the distribution of the number of caves within an area (the first one is for individual cave systems, which originate in a single chunk); you can see that 1.6.4 has a lot more variation than 1.7+ (notably, the minimum cave density is actually lower in 1.6.4 than 1.7+, as best seen by a 4 chunk radius, where 1.6.4 has a big spike at 0, which is due to caves being more clustered. The spikes seen for TMCWv4 are due to the way "special" cave systems are generated, which are larger than single-chunk "vanilla" cave systems and prevent normal caves from generating nearby):
These are charts of the distribution of caves by width and volume, compared to 1.6.4 only (1.7+ has 23% fewer caves but otherwise the same distribution); this is outdated as I've doubled the maximum volume of the largest caves, now up to a million blocks:
This cave has a volume of 685,000 blocks - yes, over 2/3 of a million air blocks and they can get even larger:
A truly colossal ravine, so long that you'd need 23 chunk render distance to see from one end to the otehr if it were straight (more when accounting for fog):
Even as big as those are, they are nothing compared to a giant cave region, seen in the upper-left of the first image; one of which I explored had a volume of 1.26 million air blocks and took over 5,500 torches to light up with over 15,000 ores mined and nearly 2,000 mobs killed, mostly within just 4 play sessions, plus a bit of a 5th - for the largest cave system I've ever explored in terms of volume (though the cave systems in my "TripleHeightTerrain" mod were far larger in terms of distance covered by the tunnels/player):
Note that the mineshaft has spruce wood; the type of wood is generally based on the trees in the biome they start in, defaulting to oak for biomes without trees, except deserts, which use birch to blend in better:
Dungeons are more interesting as they spawn more types of mobs, including "double dungeons" which spawn two different types of mobs; mobs also spawn much faster and in greater numbers, making them actually challenging:
I even made special "cave maps" which will map caves that are lit up by torches (all naturally generated torches are either redstone torches or "fake torches", which look exactly the same as normal torches but are a separate block so they are not picked up. This is a lot like how MCMap works, which is how I made the multi-day renderings of my progress):
I fully support this! I've been feeling really bored with how the caves are right now. It would be really cool to find different cave variations like the ones you suggested. I think it would also be really cool to find underground villages and mushmen. Maybe the villages are filled with mushmen instead of regular villagers? I really hope we get a cave update soon in the future!
I very highly disagree that caves need to be less common - after all, I have not updated to a newer version for nearly seven years and very likely never will because of a certain update in late 2013 which greatly reduced the size and variation in cave system density as well as made mineshafts and dungeons much rarer (ravines were untouched):
This is an interconnected caves map for the seed "-123775873255737467" in 1.6.4 (the seed for my first world), over a 3072x3072 block area centered around the origin; all the green areas are directly interconnected to a single point near the middle; the area to the lower-right interconnects off the edge of the map (only the area shown on the map is traced for interconnectivity. This also does not consider things like veins of ore or falling gravel linking otherwise separate caves, or water/lava dripping from the ceiling, revealing the presence of a cave directly above):
For comparison, this is the same seed in 1.7 and later; it still did cover an area about 1000 blocks long but that isn't much by my standards:
I tried recentering the map a few times without much result, hence I don't show the full map:
These are renderings of what I explored over several days in my first world (vanilla 1.6.4) - the interconnectivity of the underground is absolutely perfect for somebody with my playstyle, I simply go from one cave system to the next through interconnected caves, which is something that is impossible to do in 1.7+, as I've confirmed with my own program that traces all caves directly interconnected to a starting point, and explore them at a rate that most people find impossible (just the last time I played I explored a large cave system, 3 ravines, and most of 2 mineshafts, with more than 4,000 ores, rails, cobwebs, and moss stone mined - all in one sitting):
This is over 10 play sessions, the area I covered is around 700 blocks across and represents more than 30,000 ores mined and 10,000 torches used:
Another sequence taken over 4 play sessions:
Luckily, my own modding abilities means I can forget about ever updating since I can update the game myself, including making my own cave update with some of the most insane caves you've ever seen:
A rendering of the underground, showing many of the unique types of caves:
This is a chart of all the different types of caves, which does not include many new ones that I've added since:
This is a comparison of underground air volume, which is substantially higher in TMCW than even vanilla 1.6.4, which is in turn higher than 1.7 and later (the changes to caves in 1.7 had a bigger impact on their distribution), and includes 7 additional layers between lava level and sea level (this is a 13% increase in ground volume used by caves):
This is another comparison of cave density, which shows the distribution of the number of caves within an area (the first one is for individual cave systems, which originate in a single chunk); you can see that 1.6.4 has a lot more variation than 1.7+ (notably, the minimum cave density is actually lower in 1.6.4 than 1.7+, as best seen by a 4 chunk radius, where 1.6.4 has a big spike at 0, which is due to caves being more clustered. The spikes seen for TMCWv4 are due to the way "special" cave systems are generated, which are larger than single-chunk "vanilla" cave systems and prevent normal caves from generating nearby):
These are charts of the distribution of caves by width and volume, compared to 1.6.4 only (1.7+ has 23% fewer caves but otherwise the same distribution); this is outdated as I've doubled the maximum volume of the largest caves, now up to a million blocks:
This cave has a volume of 685,000 blocks - yes, over 2/3 of a million air blocks and they can get even larger:
A truly colossal ravine, so long that you'd need 23 chunk render distance to see from one end to the otehr if it were straight (more when accounting for fog):
Even as big as those are, they are nothing compared to a giant cave region, seen in the upper-left of the first image; one of which I explored had a volume of 1.26 million air blocks and took over 5,500 torches to light up with over 15,000 ores mined and nearly 2,000 mobs killed, mostly within just 4 play sessions, plus a bit of a 5th - for the largest cave system I've ever explored in terms of volume (though the cave systems in my "TripleHeightTerrain" mod were far larger in terms of distance covered by the tunnels/player):
Note that the mineshaft has spruce wood; the type of wood is generally based on the trees in the biome they start in, defaulting to oak for biomes without trees, except deserts, which use birch to blend in better:
Dungeons are more interesting as they spawn more types of mobs, including "double dungeons" which spawn two different types of mobs; mobs also spawn much faster and in greater numbers, making them actually challenging:
I even made special "cave maps" which will map caves that are lit up by torches (all naturally generated torches are either redstone torches or "fake torches", which look exactly the same as normal torches but are a separate block so they are not picked up. This is a lot like how MCMap works, which is how I made the multi-day renderings of my progress):
How do you make renderings of your world and stuff?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey guys I'm James, I used to be a noob but now I'm not, I finally figured out how to use TextCraft so here's a banner for one of my suggestions.
How do you make renderings of your world and stuff?
I used MCMap, although it is no longer available unless you download from an archived page and doesn't work for versions past 1.12.2; besides making nice 3D isometric renderings (more examples including the surface; a larger version of TMCWv4, which is still less than the original size) it has the unique feature of only mapping caves if there are torches nearby (I modified it to use a more realistic range (bottom) and count the number of torches). The other renderings were made with my own self-written program and are similar to Unmined, which is still being updated (I consider tools like these to be the best way to compare cave generation, I often get claims that caves like those in 1.6.4 still generate or they changed cave generation again but they show otherwise; it did change in 1.13 but only because they changed how the RNG is seeded).
Hello Minecraft Community,
Many people have been asking for a cave update lately; caves haven't been updated in a very long time, and they started to outdated compared to new content being added to the surface, sea, and other dimensions.
I would like to discuss the problems i see in the cave system in general, and suggest solutions or changes that would make cave exploration more interesting.
Note : My main concern here is overhauling the generation system in order to make it more interesting, i believe its necessary to add more content to caves (new ores, resources, treasures, mobs, etc...) however, i will not go into details; because :
But of course, at the same time i don't want to be vague in this thread, So i will give Examples of new content and where and how it should be introduced, but again, please focus on discussing and criticizing the main idea it self.
tl;dr at the bottom.
So what are the problems I think are present in the current cave generation?
This removes the players need to explore the game which is what we're trying to change here.
I think a combination of changes to the cave generation system And the addition of new content can solve these problems and make mining and cave exploration more interesting.
Changes to cave generation system :
A cave system in minecraft consists of rooms of various sizes connected by tunnels, and eventually you get those large deep ravines, some of which are open to the surface and some are entirely hidden underground and only accessible through a series of connected cave systems or by tunneling.
I would like to see more different types of cave systems that make each cave look different and distinguishable.
I think cave content (such as ores) should vary in "Type" and "Abundance".
We already -sorta- have this thing, for example, not all caves contain lava, and stone in extreme hills have a chance to spawn silverfish when mined.
I would like to further extend on this, perhaps with new unique mobs, or new traps.
The only structures we have underground are Mine shafts, Dungeons and strongholds (they don't count).
(I will further elaborate with examples and ideas on how to achieve said suggestions below ⬎)
Of course caves shouldn't be a rare find, but at the same time they shouldn't be everywhere; Caves should be common enough to be found regularly, but scarce enough to encourage the player to go find them.
My Ideas
At this point im done discussing the main issue, and now i want to give examples and ideas of what new things we can possibly find, new cave systems, etc...
Again, as i mentioned in the beginning of this thread, i don't want to dive very deep in details to avoid making this thread a wishlist and including irrelevant information.
I would love to see new ores, new items, maybe new enchantments or new potions all unique to underground resources or found exclusively in underground structures and loot.
As i mentioned above, i don't find current cave generation various enough to create caves that stand out, so i suggest more cave structures.
Credit to this guy.
Yes they are annoying, but they are worth exploring! they are rich in diamonds (or maybe a new type of gem), also they can be an exclusive source for unique underground fish and aquatic flora, or maybe a new type of stone
These caves can have icy spikes on their ceiling that may drop on the player when the player moves near below them. be careful!
It has to be mined with a shovel and it drops slime balls.
Most of the cave is covered with foot level slime, but in some areas it can go as deep as 3 or 4 blocks.
Slimes can spawn in these caves, and they can normally move in liquid slime.
Credit to this guy
There can be some mobs that are exclusive to caves in general, and mobs exclusive to specific types of caves.
With each attack, this slime shrinks in size and has a chance to spawn a small/medium slime, then it splits into 3-4 large slime on death, and a good bunch of XP orbs.
They can launch poisonous gas, poisoning all players around them.
These dungeons contain various traps (usually triggered by tripwires) that can launch tipped arrows, splash potions, or a hail of arrows from both sides, floor that moves with pistons and drops the player into deep pits, lava that spills from the ceiling.. you name it.
and dare the player try to mine their way around it, some blocks are trapped; containing dangerous silver fish, or set off a ceiling avalanche when mined.
Other than the trap abundant pathways, the player can find encounter rooms;
Upon entering, these rooms are closed with unique doors that take a very long time to mine to prevent escaping.
These rooms contain a unique type of mob spawners that spawn mobs in a wave like system; a new wave is spawned only after the previous wave is cleared, until the player clears all waves.
Thes spawners can be mind to stop spawning, but they will spawn a large amount at once upon destroying.
A treasure chest is always present in these rooms as a reward for entering.
other types of rooms may include regular spawner rooms (similar to the ones from old dungeons), Chest rooms which simply contains loot, rigged chest rooms which mimic chest rooms but set off traps upon opening the chest.
I may make a full thread on these dungeons with further detail, but for now.. you get the idea.
This new type of village has a new villager profession : "Miners".
these villagers can sell mining tools and smelted ores.
Catacombs loot chests may contain weapons/tools/armor enchanted with incredibly powerful enchantments, but at the same time most of it is cursed (and i think this is a good time to add more unique enchantments and curses to the game).
among these bone cased rooms and hallways, the player may find the treasure room, a room filled with a new "treasure block".
this block looks like a pile of gold coins and jewelry and its mined with shovels.
when mined, it drops a splinter of gold nuggets, with a rare chance of gold ingots, golden items (which may be enchanted and cursed), emeralds, and more rarely diamonds and diamond tools.
this villager sells unique and rare enchanted items and potions, but also sells a various set of regular supplies you might need in the underground.
As i said, we may have some new underground-only mobs, how about these mobs may spawn on the surface at night only when there is a cave below.
____
Conclusion
The main idea of this thread is to address the issue of caves being repetitive and uninteresting. The ideas i mentioned above are just examples of what can be added to make caves more interesting.
The main points I'm trying to reach here are :
Thanks for reading, please let me know what you think in the comments
Better cave generation needs to be updated before little details are added, and I love your ideas for it!
Full Support!
Hey guys I'm James, I used to be a noob but now I'm not, I finally figured out how to use TextCraft so here's a banner for one of my suggestions.
I very highly disagree that caves need to be less common - after all, I have not updated to a newer version for nearly seven years and very likely never will because of a certain update in late 2013 which greatly reduced the size and variation in cave system density as well as made mineshafts and dungeons much rarer (ravines were untouched):
For comparison, this is the same seed in 1.7 and later; it still did cover an area about 1000 blocks long but that isn't much by my standards:
I tried recentering the map a few times without much result, hence I don't show the full map:
These are renderings of what I explored over several days in my first world (vanilla 1.6.4) - the interconnectivity of the underground is absolutely perfect for somebody with my playstyle, I simply go from one cave system to the next through interconnected caves, which is something that is impossible to do in 1.7+, as I've confirmed with my own program that traces all caves directly interconnected to a starting point, and explore them at a rate that most people find impossible (just the last time I played I explored a large cave system, 3 ravines, and most of 2 mineshafts, with more than 4,000 ores, rails, cobwebs, and moss stone mined - all in one sitting):
Another sequence taken over 4 play sessions:
Luckily, my own modding abilities means I can forget about ever updating since I can update the game myself, including making my own cave update with some of the most insane caves you've ever seen:
This is a chart of all the different types of caves, which does not include many new ones that I've added since:
This is a comparison of underground air volume, which is substantially higher in TMCW than even vanilla 1.6.4, which is in turn higher than 1.7 and later (the changes to caves in 1.7 had a bigger impact on their distribution), and includes 7 additional layers between lava level and sea level (this is a 13% increase in ground volume used by caves):
This is another comparison of cave density, which shows the distribution of the number of caves within an area (the first one is for individual cave systems, which originate in a single chunk); you can see that 1.6.4 has a lot more variation than 1.7+ (notably, the minimum cave density is actually lower in 1.6.4 than 1.7+, as best seen by a 4 chunk radius, where 1.6.4 has a big spike at 0, which is due to caves being more clustered. The spikes seen for TMCWv4 are due to the way "special" cave systems are generated, which are larger than single-chunk "vanilla" cave systems and prevent normal caves from generating nearby):
These are charts of the distribution of caves by width and volume, compared to 1.6.4 only (1.7+ has 23% fewer caves but otherwise the same distribution); this is outdated as I've doubled the maximum volume of the largest caves, now up to a million blocks:
This cave has a volume of 685,000 blocks - yes, over 2/3 of a million air blocks and they can get even larger:
A truly colossal ravine, so long that you'd need 23 chunk render distance to see from one end to the otehr if it were straight (more when accounting for fog):
Even as big as those are, they are nothing compared to a giant cave region, seen in the upper-left of the first image; one of which I explored had a volume of 1.26 million air blocks and took over 5,500 torches to light up with over 15,000 ores mined and nearly 2,000 mobs killed, mostly within just 4 play sessions, plus a bit of a 5th - for the largest cave system I've ever explored in terms of volume (though the cave systems in my "TripleHeightTerrain" mod were far larger in terms of distance covered by the tunnels/player):
Note that the mineshaft has spruce wood; the type of wood is generally based on the trees in the biome they start in, defaulting to oak for biomes without trees, except deserts, which use birch to blend in better:
Dungeons are more interesting as they spawn more types of mobs, including "double dungeons" which spawn two different types of mobs; mobs also spawn much faster and in greater numbers, making them actually challenging:
I even made special "cave maps" which will map caves that are lit up by torches (all naturally generated torches are either redstone torches or "fake torches", which look exactly the same as normal torches but are a separate block so they are not picked up. This is a lot like how MCMap works, which is how I made the multi-day renderings of my progress):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I fully support this! I've been feeling really bored with how the caves are right now. It would be really cool to find different cave variations like the ones you suggested. I think it would also be really cool to find underground villages and mushmen. Maybe the villages are filled with mushmen instead of regular villagers? I really hope we get a cave update soon in the future!
How do you make renderings of your world and stuff?
Hey guys I'm James, I used to be a noob but now I'm not, I finally figured out how to use TextCraft so here's a banner for one of my suggestions.
I used MCMap, although it is no longer available unless you download from an archived page and doesn't work for versions past 1.12.2; besides making nice 3D isometric renderings (more examples including the surface; a larger version of TMCWv4, which is still less than the original size) it has the unique feature of only mapping caves if there are torches nearby (I modified it to use a more realistic range (bottom) and count the number of torches). The other renderings were made with my own self-written program and are similar to Unmined, which is still being updated (I consider tools like these to be the best way to compare cave generation, I often get claims that caves like those in 1.6.4 still generate or they changed cave generation again but they show otherwise; it did change in 1.13 but only because they changed how the RNG is seeded).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I feel that there should still be as many caves as now, but given the sizes of the new types suggested, they should not be too common.